Jehovahs Witnesses; Let me try to explain the whole 'cult' thing...

I couldn't help but notice all the noobs posting so many negative topics on the subject of Jehovah's Witnesses. There seems to be some sort of 'weird sect' image surrounding the religion, and nobody seems to have the slightest clue exactly what it IS they believe in.

I'm not trying to start another true/false debate here (99% of the topics in this forum), but I figured I could at least try to clear up a few things for whoever might be curious to know, without having to deal with the fundamentalists that come knocking...

What are Jehovah's witnesses? Basically, Christians. Just like Mormans, 7th Day Adventists and a whole bunch of other minority groups, they were founded by christians who came up with a radical idea that wasn't accepted by the mainstream church.

In this case it was a guy called Charles Taze Russell, who in 1914 came to believe that the prophecies in the book of revelation pointed to WW1 (nation will rise up against nation, etc).

In effect, that's pretty much it. Someone came up with a new idea which wasn't accepted as truth by anyone else, so you take your followers and form a new religion. Nothing crazy, just your usual christian beliefs incorperated with what you percieve as truth.

Some of the things that set them apart:

-They don't believe in Hell

-Not everyone goes to heaven, only a selected 144,000

-They believe God and Jesus are 2 seperate people

-They don't believe in re-incarnation

-They don't believe in the trinity

-They don't believe that Armageddon is the destruction of the earth, rather, all EVIL on earth

-They don't take the 7 creation days to be *literal* days

Meh. I'm really too tired to keep on with this, but I hope you've got some sort of idea about what exactly they are. If anyone has any questions that nobody can give you a straight answer too I can surely help you out.

quote:

-Not everyone goes to heaven, only a selected 144,000

Huh? So, for the entire remainder of human existence, only 144k people will go to heaven? Sounds a little iffy to me. Also, where do you go if not heaven, since you don't believe in hell (purgatory?)

According to which criteria are these 144000 selected ?

Again, I'll stress that I'm not trying to say weather this is true false...

Rather than the usual christian belief that every good person goes to heaven, they instead believe that they have the hope of RESURECTION here on earth, not now mind you, but after the 'armageddon' I mentioned earlier.

Why 144000? That comes from the book of revelation, And I'll dig up the actual scripture and post it, I know it sounds dodgey just saying "it's in there somewhere".

Think of them as 'the elite' if you will.

Why don't they believe in hell? Because put simply, if you actually picked up a bible and READ it (not just selected bits about fire- read; preist) you would know that there is NO hell. This is the part where you say "What the...?" I'll explain:

Hades and Sheol (hell) in the bible are NEVER refered to as a place of eternal punishment. As any *inteligent* atheist can tell you, this was somthing invented by the church to keep you under control. The BIBLE defines Hades and Sheol as the 'common grave of mankind'.

No, Im not trying to bible bash you, but here's the scriptures for anyone who could be bothered to look them up:

'Hell' A Place of inactivity;

Ps 6:5, Ec 9:10, Isa 38:18-19

Satan's fiery "torment" is everlasting death;

Re 20:10-14-15

And here's one scripture for the 144000 bit,

Re 14:1;

"And I saw, and look! the Lamb standing upon the mount Zion, and with him a hundred and forty-four thousand having the name of his father written on their forheads"

And again, more scriptures for anyone with too much time on their hands;

Re 14:1-3; 7:4; 9

For anyone who's wondering, I'm taking those from the bible, 'New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures', not the King James version (doesn't really matter). Just so you know I'm not doing the "friend of a friend told me so" routine.

Cult: A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader.

[SEN D-F]

quote:Originally posted by JKhabarov:

they instead believe that they have the hope of RESURECTION here on earth, not now mind you, but after the 'armageddon' I mentioned earlier.

And where do they go between death and armageddon?

quote:Originally posted by SEN D-F:

And where do they go between death and armageddon?

That's just it, apparently you don't go anywhere. You just stay, well, dead.

I have a feeling this is going to move onto "Then where do you get resurected?" or "What happens after you decay until nothing's left?"...

Well, if you're a believer, it's just somthing you'll have to wait around and find out for yourself. As with many other subjects, the bible isn't going to give any exact details on how (and WHEN) this is supposed to happen. Guess they should have asked God at the time, eh?

The only real 'details' you would find would be at John 5:28-29, 11:25; 1Co 15:40, 42, 44

Good luck if you find anything usefull.

quote:Originally posted by theBishop:

Cult: A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader.

Unless you can classify God as an "authoritarian, charismatic leader" they couldn't be labeled as a cult/sect.

[This message has been edited by JKhabarov (edited 02-24-2004).]

[Dark_Magneto]

quote:Originally posted by JKhabarov:

That's just it, apparently you don't go anywhere. You just stay, well, dead.

And if you end it on that note, you have the most probable outcome post-mortem.

Question: How much of what you just said came from the watchtower?

Fact for today: The JW Bible was translated by 6 blokes, of whom none are considered proficient in either Greek or Hebrew.

[Craftian]

quote:Originally posted by JKhabarov:

Unless you can classify God as an "authoritarian, charismatic leader" they couldn't be labeled as a cult/sect.

quote:...with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader.

[This message has been edited by Craftian (edited 02-24-2004).]

quote:Originally posted by inquisitor_11:

Question: How much of what you just said came from the watchtower?

Fact for today: The JW Bible was translated by 6 blokes, of whom none are considered proficient in either Greek or Hebrew.

What I said earlier I took directly from "New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures".It's simply another english translation from the original greek/hebrew bible as an alternative to the 'olde english' King James.

And no, it wasn't written by JW's. Rather, the "New World Bible Translation Committee" in 1984, A Christian organisation.

How much of what I just said came from the watchtower? NONE OF IT. And It's because of the Watchtower that I have NOTHING to do with the organisation. Their beliefs make perfect sense to me, but that's not the issue.

What IS the issue? The fact that the organisation (in many places) is to the point where the Watchtower holds more significance than the bible. "What the Watchtower says, Goes" as I've had to find out the hard way.

I doubt it, but if there are any JW totsers out there I guess I could elaborate.

Oh, And I wouldn't have the slightest clue about a "JW Bible", inquisitor_11.

Edit: Somehow posted the above twice. Sure you don't want to read it again..

[This message has been edited by JKhabarov (edited 02-25-2004).]

The New World Translation is the preffered version pushed by JW's. The "New World Bible Translation Committee" was what i was alluding to when i was talking about the translators. All 6 blokes that made up that translation "committee" were JW's, and no of them are considered proficient in Greek or Hebrew.

Thw watchtower IS the issue as it is the source of all JW doctrine and discourage questioning of their leadership and encourage the repression of all forms of dissent.

Try it for yourself- every single question you could ask in a "Kingdom Hall" or JW bible study will be answered (more often than not) with the perscribed watchtower answer.

It's interesting that you say the 'New World Bible Translation Committee' is a strictly JW 'organisation' (six guys?). In no way am I going to try to stand up for them, but It sounds strange considering they've never really 'advertised' themselves to be JW, but rather regular Christians.

The perfect cover, maybe?

Anyhow, where did you hear/read this?

..And yes, I WAS getting at the watchtower being 'the' issue, I was trying to say that I've really got nothing against their beliefs.

[This message has been edited by JKhabarov (edited 02-27-2004).]