Gay debate

I'm not sure I've ever seen a topic here about the morality of homosexuality. Has there ever been one? There should. Here. I'll start us off: No God would create so many people born with a desire he hates. He would also have no reason to hate any kind of consensual(sp) relations between adults.

There's always the possibility that we weren't created. Besides, if homosexuality is so immoral, you would think "god" would take some measure to prevent it. But nope, i see gays running around all over the place.

listen you fucking homo's there is no room in any modern day religion for your faggoty asses so maybe u should make your own.

Liberace can be your patron saint of ass rape.

quote:Originally posted by dirtballkaner:

listen you fucking homo's there is no room in any modern day religion for your faggoty asses so maybe u should make your own.

Liberace can be your patron saint of ass rape.

I'm intimidated.

u should be

quote:Originally posted by dirtballkaner:

u should be

I see sarcasm is not worthy of your talented mind. You won't make it far here being a total asshole...you should at least provide some decent feedback.

dirtballkaner, I like to hear other people's opinions, but you're an ignorant piece of shit. Just thought you might want to know

thanks man

it's good to know

I have made a thread that had a few questions on it one of them concerning homosexuality and I don't see what is so wrong with it and why the Catholic denomination is against it so much. They say it is because it isn't proven that you are born with the will to sexually be with people of the same sex but it is also not proven other wise. So I don't understand why we have to be so closeminded to the fact that maybe you are born with that will and even if you aren't it was "God" that created us that way.All of which I have said concerning God creating us is all hypothetical because I do not believe in a God.Oh and dirtballkaner please if you post make it meaningful not something you pulled out of your ass.

[This message has been edited by zEsTyTuRtLe (edited 01-13-2004).]

God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. it's simple. in the bible, i think in leviticus, if a man lies with a man like he does with a woman, it is an ABOMINATION!!! AND THEY SHOULD BE KILLED!!! THEIR BLOOD SHALL BE UPON THEM!!! and 75% of the men who have AIDS are homos. And what is so good about being gay? don't you get teased everyday?

god made adam and eve, not adam and steve, hahahaha thats a really lame take. anyone that cites the bullshit creationist stories of genesis to convey why they hate gays really needs to back up their hatred with a little more insight. Even if all that Biblical jargon is true, just because god created a man and a woman first doesn't mean that being gay is freakish or abnormal. Gay people are born gay, they don't become that way so fuckers like you can pick on them, its just one of the many wonders of genetics and being a human being. So if you're not gay, or haven't been accosted by a gay individual, then get over it. If some people devoted a little less time hating homos and a little more time actually focusing on things that actually CAN be changed, o what a world we could be living in..

ps..if that statistic about 75 percent of gay men having aids is true, which i HIGHLY doubt it is, than don't fuck any guys up the ass and i think you'll be ok. If you're so hetero, than why do you even care about aids in the gay community? Sounds to me like someone in this thread might be packing a bit of fudge himself.......

quote:Originally posted by ibn_mosef:

? Sounds to me like someone in this thread might be packing a bit of fudge himself.......

I prefer those who munch carpet, personally.

[bluntman457]

quote:Originally posted by GlitterPunk112358:

I'm not sure I've ever seen a topic here about the morality of homosexuality. Has there ever been one? There should. Here. I'll start us off: No God would create so many people born with a desire he hates. He would also have no reason to hate any kind of consensual(sp) relations between adults.

God does not nor did he create anybody he hates. He loves everyone whether he/she be homo\bisexual, a nazi, a mormon, etc. However, no matter how much he loves us he does have to punish the bad. After all, who would raise a child without punishment for wrong doing?

By punishing children for wrongdoing, we aren't condemning them to suffer for the rest of time.

Duh.

quote:Originally posted by CheeseWank:



By punishing children for wrongdoing, we aren't condemning them to suffer for the rest of time.

Duh.

You mean you don't ground your kids to eternal damnation? I must have been doing this all wrong...

...Be goodly therefore: dress ye all in fine apparel; eat rich foods and drink sweet wines and wines that foam! Also, take your fill and will of love as ye will, when, where and WITH WHOM YE WILL! But always unto me.

book of law

I-51

First off, why is it that if someone insults gay people they are automatically labeled "Ignorant". It's there opinion that they hate homosexuals. Damn PC bullshit has gone to far.

Secondly, If you believe that God gave people free will to do what they like then that is the reason some people on Earth are gay.

It's a personal choice.

I do not belive for one second that it is genetic.

[Hexadecimal]

Excuse me ass, but I tried for a good several months to complete remove any bisexual 'evil' from myself by believing the thoughts were a choice of mine to partake in. After some of the most drastic measures, attempted suicide the day before my birthday included, I've come to the conclusion it is NOT a choice of mine to be this way. Thoughts are something we have no control over, whether we act on them or not is our choice though. I don't act on my thoughts, but I most definitely am bisexual. The basis of the problem is genetic, it's a hormone imbalance caused by genes...the actions taken out by one with these thoughts are choice, but it doesn't change who they are on the inside.

New question: if it is a personal choice, what makes it the wrong one? If doing something that isn't the natural way is wrong, we shouldn't be cooking our food or cutting our hair, right?

quote:Originally posted by GlitterPunk112358:

New question: if it is a personal choice, what makes it the wrong one? If doing something that isn't the natural way is wrong, we shouldn't be cooking our food or cutting our hair, right?

Well old bible rules reckon you shouldn't trim your beard and so forth, but xtians decided they were over that rule. Like many others that they decide don't apply anymore, but thats a whole nother debate against dopey xtians.

Back on topic, I'm not anti-gay or anything, I don't give a shit, you only get to jump on this ride once do what you want. But if you look at it logically, with the concept of procreation, carrying on the species blah blah, it's obviously not the intention of life (substitute the universe, your 'god' whatever here) that this goes on. But everyone decides their own morals, where religion tries to moralise everything, I say, if it doesn't infringe on me, do whatever the fuck you want.

[bluntman457]

quote:Originally posted by GlitterPunk112358:

New question: if it is a personal choice, what makes it the wrong one? If doing something that isn't the natural way is wrong, we shouldn't be cooking our food or cutting our hair, right?

It is my firm belief that God will punish fags for partaking in there homosexual desires. God never created homosexuals nor does he like them. They shall burn in the deepest parts of hell along with those who give them hospice for partaking in such an abominable action.

quote:Originally posted by bluntman457:

It is my firm belief that God will punish fags for partaking in there homosexual desires. God never created homosexuals nor does he like them. They shall burn in the deepest parts of hell along with those who give them hospice for partaking in such an abominable action.

That's funny...the bible says that god created everything...Don't you believe your own book of beliefs? And the deepest circle of hell is not for gays.

[bluntman457]

Inside Voices:

You sure are an idiot to think that. God did create everything, however, it was defiled be sin. Read the Bible, its all there. Maybe you should know what you are talking about first. Oh yes, and another thing. Don't ever question how I believe. Just by analyzing your question I know that I know far more about the bible than you do.

[This message has been edited by bluntman457 (edited 01-15-2004).]

quote:Originally posted by bluntman457:

Inside Voices:

You sure are an idiot to think that. God did create everything, however, it was defiled be sin. Read the Bible, its all there. Maybe you should know what you are talking about first. Oh yes, and another thing. Don't ever question how I believe. Just by analyzing your question I know that I know far more about the bible than you do.

[This message has been edited by bluntman457 (edited 01-15-2004).]

And knowing all about the bible means...

You had just contradicted yourself in your post. I'm not saying you should change your beliefs, i'm just saying to get your stuff straight. I'm no idiot for reading into what you write. Everyone needs criticism now and then.

[redzed]

quote:Originally posted by Hexadecimal:

Excuse me ass, but I tried for a good several months to complete remove any bisexual 'evil' from myself by believing the thoughts were a choice of mine to partake in. After some of the most drastic measures, attempted suicide the day before my birthday included, I've come to the conclusion it is NOT a choice of mine to be this way. Thoughts are something we have no control over, whether we act on them or not is our choice though. I don't act on my thoughts, but I most definitely am bisexual. The basis of the problem is genetic, it's a hormone imbalance caused by genes...the actions taken out by one with these thoughts are choice, but it doesn't change who they are on the inside.

One time, in my long ago University days, I had to do an assignment on homsexuality. For the only time ever, I received a 100% score, only to have a couple of points knocked off by a moderator.

He reckoned I had placed an item in an appendix that should have been included in the main text. That appendix related certified medical research out of the USA.

Seems there is a measurable difference between a male and a female brain. In the Hypothalmus (I think - it was a long time ago)there is a different count between chromosomes as I recall. The point is there is a scientifically measurable difference between a male and a female brain.

The research showed that many male homosexuals had in fact a female brain, and many female homosexuals had a male brain. Is anyone responsible for this biological anomaly? God maybe? If so how could God justly condemn them to hell?

Whatever it changed my thinking, and in the years since i've observed homosexual people and they do exhibit traits in harmony with that research. makes sense if one was born in a male body with a female brain, that other males would be attractive and likewise for females born with a male brain other females would attract.

Judge not?

chromosomes have nothing to do with it. the same number of chromosomes (46) exist in every cell in the body. the only difference is the last pair of chromosomes - xy for males, and xx for females, regardless of sexual orientation... the only exception is people with down syndrome, who have 3 chromosomes instead of 2 for that last pair.

the study you mention was a measure of a certain nerve group structure in the brain, and it was not a very reliable study. it has since been disputed into the ground.

nevertheless, the people who are violently homophobic ARE ignorant. the emphasis on marriage in modern western civilization is a by-product of the dominance of christianity, and not reflective of the majority of humanities' sexual mores, now and throughout history.

it is not only ethnocentric, but also indicative of a mind UTTERLY mired in ignorance to claim that homosexuality is an abberation. the great ancient societies upon which our own republic is modeled had very different concepts of sexuality.

femininity was not a literal quality (i.e. femininity = person with tits and a pussy), and masculinity was not a literal quality (masculine = pecker). what they believed and practiced would be very shocking to people in most modern countries, if anyone at the time understood how closely our forefathers in the age of reason attempted to emulate greece and rome.

those considered most masculine were land-owning males, right below them were influential females, at the lowest rung of femininity were serfs (aka - slaves), be they male or female. therefore, if you were a poor white trash male in ancient greece, chances are you might be the butt-slave of a wealthy nobleman. ever wonder about the roots of the word 'fraternity'??

[This message has been edited by Eil (edited 01-15-2004).]

quote:Originally posted by bluntman457:

Inside Voices:

You sure are an idiot to think that. God did create everything, however, it was defiled be sin. Read the Bible, its all there. Maybe you should know what you are talking about first. Oh yes, and another thing. Don't ever question how I believe. Just by analyzing your question I know that I know far more about the bible than you do.

[This message has been edited by bluntman457 (edited 01-15-2004).]

So God created everything, then it was defiled by sin, who created sin?

quote:Originally posted by Froonhed:

So God created everything, then it was defiled by sin, who created sin?

Thank you, sir.

[CesareBorgia]

quote:Originally posted by Eil:

chromosomes have nothing to do with it. the same number of chromosomes (46) exist in every cell in the body. the only difference is the last pair of chromosomes - xy for males, and xx for females, regardless of sexual orientation... the only exception is people with down syndrome, who have 3 chromosomes instead of 2 for that last pair.

[This message has been edited by Eil (edited 01-15-2004).]

Not only Down's Syndrome, there are many other possibilities(i.e. one chromosone instead of two, two y chromosones, etc.)

quote:Originally posted by Eil:



the great ancient societies upon which our own republic is modeled had very different concepts of sexuality.

[This message has been edited by Eil (edited 01-15-2004).]

Very true, if anyone is interested, I suggest you read up about Sparta. The pedophilia that existed there will be shocking to one who does not understand how relative culture is.

[bluntman457]

quote:Originally posted by Froonhed:

So God created everything, then it was defiled by sin, who created sin?

Satan created sin. And sense I know you are going to ask:

Satan was at one point, God's top angel. However, he decided that wasn't good enough. So he asked God for more power and God denied his request. He became angry and led a revolt,etc ,etc. And was thus cast out of heaven along with those who supported him. Once he was cast out he became Satan and well, you know who Satan is.

quote:Originally posted by bluntman457:

Satan created sin. And sense I know you are going to ask:

Satan was at one point, God's top angel. However, he decided that wasn't good enough. So he asked God for more power and God denied his request. He became angry and led a revolt,etc ,etc. And was thus cast out of heaven along with those who supported him. Once he was cast out he became Satan and well, you know who Satan is.

and now you know who bluntman457 is. a complete waste of your time and keystrokes.

quote:Originally posted by CesareBorgia:



Very true, if anyone is interested, I suggest you read up about Sparta. The pedophilia that existed there will be shocking to one who does not understand how relative culture is.

i wish i could see one of these punk homophobic white trash weenies call a spartan 'fag' to his face.

Even if gay people are not born gay (which i believe they are), if god created everything and knows everything he knew before he created everything that some people were going to be gay, if he didnt want them to he would have created everything slightly differently and set in motion a different sequence of events.

i think sexuality is based on genetics for some and simply choice for others. but if god created people simply to give life, then why would he punish a completely good person simply based on who they decide to have sex with?

Homosexuality is genetically controlled. In the brain, there is a part called the Sexually Dimorphic Nucleus, which is about twice as large in males as in females. The SDN of gay males was the same size as the females. This indicates a biological origin. Not only that, but there is homosexuality in every species on the planet (maybe not the assexual ones) and scientists have modified the genes of fruits flies in such a way that when they are warm, they mate with their own sex, and when they are warm, they mate with the other sex. This is not to say that if you ship a homosexual to alaska, he'll become straight (as one homophobe so intelligently deduced), as it was an isolated experiment.

Now that the cause is established, let's talk about the morals. What are morals determined by? The Bible? Not likely, as it says gays should be put to death, along with sorcerers and divorcees. So that's obviously not the source of this moral argument against homosexuality, 'cause you can't just pick and choose who is a sinner and who isn't, it's all written there. The source must be from society. Morals are usually guided by effect on others. If I shoot you, it will hurt you, and that's immoral. If I have sex with your wife, that hurts you and your marriage, and that's immoral. If I steal your money, your possesions are now mine, and you're worse off because of it, so that's immoral. If I call you names, that hurts your feelings and that's immoral. If I rape your butt, that's sure as hell going to hurt your butt and your feelings too, I assume, so that's immoral. HOWEVER, if you ask me to put you out of pain by taking you off life support when you can't do it for yourself, I'm giving you freedom to do what you want by doing so, and am doing nothing immoral. If you give me money and I take it, it's your freedom to do so, I am accepting your choice to be generous, and am doing nothing immoral. If you ask me to have sex with your butt and I do, I am not depriving you of freedom by doing so, and I am not going against your wishes, so I am doing nothing immoral.

The only moral argument comes from Christianity, and can't be regarded as reliable because of the inconsistency of its source. The bible also considers left-handedness a sin. Should left-handed people be allowed to marry? Who are you to pick and choose what is important from God's word?



Peace.

[SEN D-F]

THats what I love. People will preach to you until they're blue in the face, but not a single one of them can say they they haven't simply chosen to not follow certain rules of the bible.

Their arguments are usually based around the fact that certain things 'dont apply anymore' or that things have changed over time and certain rules can't be applied to modern life. Last I checked, if God says something, it applies, and despite time having changed its still what he said. If he wanted certain things in the bible to be disregarded or changed don't you think he'd pop on down for a revision?

Silly christians.

[Dark_Magneto]

I like how some Christians say that the prohibition on beard shaving, shellfish eating, and multifabric cloth wearing no longer apply, but they condemn homosexuals citing Levitical law. Most don't see remarriage to be a great travesty, but it is condemned moreso in the bible than homosexuality.

They ignore all that shit in Levitical law except that which allows them to preach hate and damnation against homosexuals for their natural biological urges.

The hypochristians are not hard to come by at all.

Come on, Christian-Conservatives (or just homophobes in general), where's the fault in that argument?

[bluntman457]

I see that too Dark_Magneto. And let it be known that is written that God hates divorce just as much as he does fags.

[Hexadecimal]

It doesn't say he hates gays and divorcees...says he loves them actually, just that they don't get the ultimate gift of heaven because they've strayed from him.