I want to first state that I will make some gammer and spelling mistakes so please look over it!

There are so many beliefs about religion and so many different gods. It is more logical for the universe to have been created by being, then to have just poofed up all on its own. There has to be some evil to balance good so we are given the devil. The devil and god are always portrayed as enimies, but who is to say they arent acually partners in a way? Or one and the same being? Im noting telling you I know this to be a fact because I dont and Im not saying this is my belief. I guess my beliefs are simply this: The must be a God and there must be a devil, the rest is unknown and up to the individual to come up with.

quote:Originally posted by slasher_13:

It is more logical for the universe to have been created by being, then to have just poofed up all on its own.

Why?

quote:There has to be some evil to balance good so we are given the devil.

Who says there is good? Who says there is balance?

quote:The must be a God and there must be a devil, the rest is unknown and up to the individual to come up with.

Why?

well regaurding that its more logical that a being created the univerce....think about it which is easier to believe and more logical that one in this void of nothingness for no apparent reason there was a massive explosion that created the universe, or that a being from another dimention created the universe by causeing a great explosion, im not saying im right or your wrong im just stating what i think so dont take it as if im calling you wrong or anything



and there can be no good with out evil and no evil without good, well i guess there can be but that would mess up the order of the universe and how things are in effect now

very interesting I share some of the same views.

quote:Originally posted by slasher_13:

well regaurding that its more logical that a being created the univerce....think about it which is easier to believe and more logical that one in this void of nothingness for no apparent reason there was a massive explosion that created the universe, or that a being from another dimention created the universe by causeing a great explosion, im not saying im right or your wrong im just stating what i think so dont take it as if im calling you wrong or anything



and there can be no good with out evil and no evil without good, well i guess there can be but that would mess up the order of the universe and how things are in effect now



Just because we happened to naturally have order in our universe doesn't imply divine creation. First of all, if the world was different, we would still see it as ordered because we would have a different perspective. Think: If you buy a ticket for the lottery and win, does that mean you had help? The chances are very slim to win... but that would mean every lotto is rigged, which we know simply isn't true.

Good and evil are perspective. What one person considers morally offensive, someone else may find perfectly acceptable. You can say good can't exist without evil because the same thing can be viewed both ways.

quote:Originally posted by slasher_13:

There are so many beliefs about religion and so many different gods. It is more logical for the universe to have been created by being, then to have just poofed up all on its own.



Is that so?

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-6/234220/orazor.gif (http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-6/234220/orazor.gif)

quote:

There has to be some evil to balance good so we are given the devil.



Good and evil are human assignments to actions. That which is advantageous is "good", that which is disadvantageous is "bad"/"evil". It all depends on whose perspective you look from as well. In WW2, bombing Pearl Harbor was "good" for the Japaneese and was deemed as "evil" from the americans. When we retaliate with twin nukes, it was "evil" from a Japaneese perspective, but "good" from the american.

quote:

The devil and god are always portrayed as enimies, but who is to say they arent acually partners in a way?



The devil in Christian theology is the equivalent of a contractor. God didn't want to look evil, so he created another being to do the bad shit for him. he knows everything that will happen if he creates a certain thing in a certain way and gives them certain characteristics, so he can selectively create anyone he wants to do anything he wants and make it look to the ignorant fools that he is absolved from all responsibility of the effects of the individual (Lucifer for instance).

It also raises the question of why would you create someone that you knew for a fact would try to backstab you and take 1/3 of your angel population unless you wanted it to happen by proxy for some odd reason?

quote:

The must be a God and there must be a devil, the rest is unknown and up to the individual to come up with.



That's highly debateable. If you look at the "Devil", you can quickly realize that it is just demonization of the earlier Pagan God "Pan".

They took Pan and made it a thing of immense "evil" in order to try to get more Pagan converts during the inception of Christianity. The imagery is a direct port. If copyright laws existed on mythological figures back then, Christianity would have got the pants sued off of it for such a blatant rip-off. They just took one of the gods of another religion and gave it a different name and role.

Believing that a being created the universe and the being just existing from nothingness is just as absurd as the universe just existing from nothingness.

quote:Originally posted by Haddock:

Believing that a being created the universe and the being just existing from nothingness is just as absurd as the universe just existing from nothingness.

Which is more logical? Something coming from something or something coming from nothing?

And no one ever said the being came from nothingness.

Actually, it's more like:

What makes more sense?

1. Something coming from nothing (Universe from nothing)

2. Something coming from something coming from nothing (Universe from God from nothing)

3. Something happening to just arbitrarily exist in an uncreated state to create something (God with no origin creating the universe)

4. Something just happening to arbitrarily exist. (Universe existing without origin)

I agree with a lot of what your saying about evil and good being perspective but if what I though was evil you thought was good and vice versa you would still see something as evil.



and Im not saying god came from nowhere (acually Im not even saying that what I beleive is right )but we just dont know where he came from.

quote: Actually, it's more like:

What makes more sense?

...

4. Something just happening to arbitrarily exist. (Universe existing without origin)

Im gonna go out on a limb and say you would choose 4...

So you use logic for the existence (or lack there of) of God and not for the Universe?

Arbitrarily: Determined by chance, whim, or impulse, and not by necessity, reason, or principle.



[This message has been edited by Rust (edited 07-11-2003).]