Satan, ethymologically. Who are they?

[UrbnTbone]

About satanism What you see is what you are.

People that invoke that excuse to disqualify others, are too poor to find defects in their own relation with God, so they need to put the blame on some external factor...

Kind of the christian myth of 'luci-fer the giver of light'... The free, 'live' manifestation of light is supposedly evil because it disturbs their legions of igno-rant fanatics, and may enlighten people in a gentle way without the help of their sheppherds.

Thus, whatever is wider than their tiny consciousness, they call satanism... As they did in the middle ages.

So, when you hear accusations of 'satanism', or whatever exclusive terminology, be aware that the real satan(ethymology: Heb., 'that who crosses', 'cross') is in the ranks of those who use that childish mass-manipulation tool to frighten their flocks.

These are crossing you, they are in your way and want you to stay within the igno-rant populace. When they see you happy with God they feel the need to rant and disturb your cool.

But if you are really centered you won't hear their barking. Keep centered. Let the doom dogs bark... Let the good times roll.

[Dr Kamme]

I thought Satan was an earlier regional god the hebrews were trying to replace? The Lord of Flies was mesopotanian?

Also, if Lucifer is Prometheus.. aaargghh, the Jungian Archetypes,.. aarrggh

Satanism is so much a symbiote of christianity that I find it hard to take it seriously.

[Fetus]

You really have no fucking idea what you're talking about. I suggest you go do alittle research on Satanism.

[TigerJK]

Maybe it would save a lot of confusion, if every mention of Satanism on this board was preceded by either 'LaVeyan' or 'Judeo-Christian'.

[This message has been edited by TigerJK (edited 06-27-2003).]

[UrbnTbone]

Right on tiger.

Now, the notion of dark service is not only christian. What is, is the notion that God cannot deal with imaginary 'rebels'.

The 'church of satan' actually divided into some 'temple of Set' which got rid of childish christian imagery. It is supposed to be a more intelligent approach, going into ancient dark gods. They have a site: www.xeper.org

BTW this topic is, how the christian notion of satan really is perverted, not inheritated, from the original hebrew bible. There is such a concept in sinaitic Judaism but it is - no way - not a 'rebel' against God's will(just an idiot idea! If God is almighty, none can be 'rebel', maximum you can act as if, but it will stay in the plan, you will just end up hurting yourself.) The idea in Judaism, is of the angel of death, who is also in charge of testing humans with the goal of stimulating their moral growth. So the legions of the angel of death will cross human ways and act as if it were an enemy, but deep inside the intent is to induce progress through challenge.

Now if you are dumb enough to trust the 'rebel satan' lies, you really live in a world of desolation, paranoia and deserve pity, or the people that you may influence deserve pity...

The approach of the TOS ought to be some kind of a scientific one: awareness of some mix of forces in the universe, and choice of one 'side', although questionable, is more harmonic to the structure of the world, thus more legitimate, than plain cosmogonic lies that even a 3 year old kid shouldn't believe.

[Silver Lights]

tbone has another satan/crowley thread once again dedicated to his jewish god satan.

[Todesgehen]

i never understood why it was called "satanism". Satan means adversary in ancient hebrew, he/they/it isnt/arent evil at all. Satan is not the adversary of God so to speak but instead the adversary of humanity. In Job it says Satan walked with God, this shows that Satan and God have a close relationship. It is my belief and quite a few others that Satan is the 2nd in command below God and that Satan brings forth evidence agaisnt humanities salvation.

[UrbnTbone]

Silverfights, you are a satan worshipper, proof being your belief in a rebel satan and in a feeble god that can't cope.

quote:Originally posted by Todesgehen:

It is my belief and quite a few others that Satan is the 2nd in command below God and that Satan brings forth evidence agaisnt humanities salvation.

Todes: An angel is not even 2nd in command, it is an executive, doesn't make decision.

[Silver Lights]

quote:Originally posted by UrbnTbone:

Silverfights, you are a satan worshipper, proof being your belief in a rebel satan and in a feeble god that can't cope.

Todes: An angel is not even 2nd in command, it is an executive, doesn't make decision.

No tbone, satan is your god. Your jewish god it seems. You certainly defend him a lot.

[Silver Lights]

quote:Originally posted by Todesgehen:

i never understood why it was called "satanism". Satan means adversary in ancient hebrew, he/they/it isnt/arent evil at all. Satan is not the adversary of God so to speak but instead the adversary of humanity. In Job it says Satan walked with God, this shows that Satan and God have a close relationship. It is my belief and quite a few others that Satan is the 2nd in command below God and that Satan brings forth evidence agaisnt humanities salvation.

Satan is not 2nd in command next to God...satan is much lower. The archangel lucifer is much higher in the hierarchy than satan. Lucifer was much closer to God before he fell. Although he is a fallen angel, he is still very powerful...it would be foolish to think that he is not. Lucifer used to be a Seraphim angel...now, he is not.

One can say that lucifer and satan 'walked' with God before they rebelled and therefore fell.

[UrbnTbone]

The point some of us people with brains and pious hearts are making, is that the lucifer concept is nothing related to the Bible. It is a total Xian invention, with nothing in the original Bible to syupport it.

The childish, schizoid, paranoid, myth, claims that "Allmighty" can be challenged by some rebels. Total contradiction, of the kind that Orwell describes in his "1984" as slogans from the fascist state: "war is peace" etc... Also, what the nazis posted at the gate of concentration camps: "Arbeit macht frei"(work makes you free).

That kind of nonsense permits to subdue the masses, put in opposition thinking and believing. If you think properly, you can't be a "true believer", you know, all these artificial divisions of the mind.

Machiavel describes very coldly how one can manipulate. The anti-logical theologists, professing nonsense, designed their mold in the intent of mass control, blinded spirits and crazy inquisition zealots, roaming new continents with infidel hunting, head chopping and intellectual terror.

Now on totse, we have these few nazis like the guy Brian, (Silberfights) ignoring the essence of a thread and just spamming their desecrating nonsense, apparently for the sole purpose of ruining threads that are not under their chapel's norms or anything jewish.

The idea would be to skip their posts since it is always the same annoying kind of fanatical witch-hunting.

BTW my position is of one who studied Judaism, Buddhism, and a few others. Of catholic birth, I always liked the Jews and specially their infinite knowledge of the spirit. Some other people might have found their principal interest in other fields, just as to me the Judaism file was determinant. That doesn't mean I will be an amen sayer to just anything jewish, but I strongly witness a great ignorance in Judaism, even among people who like exotic spiritualities. Together with the fact that My point of reference is mainly jewish, tyhis leads to opening threads with jewish content. If I knew other systems with the same depth, then I would also use them as a reference, but, hey, it's Judaism that provided me with illumination...

BTW from what I gather, any good people are able to communicate on the basis of their respective religions, they will understand each other because when you know the essence, the external is but a peel.

But alas, religion can be used by maniacs to spread the fire of hate and discrimination, as we can witness on these threads.

The question is, should one stop posting about Judaism, kabalah or anything jewish, just because a looney will systematically ruin the threads? No, knowledge is light, and even a little light can repel a lot of darkness.

So, too bad for histrionic moronic fanatics, ultimately people gather who is talking and who is profanating his mouth.

BTW the behaviour is typical of the ethymology of "satan" (in Hebrew, "that who crosses", gets in your way and wants to stop you. Also, "an accusator".)

The more spiritual humans along history, had many many satans to persecute them, but they didn't stop. We, people of good will, will ultimately prevail with our noble traits and altruistic refinement, over the doomsayers, the people of the curse, the taker-overs.

This is a nice providence again, that on this thread about the satan, some nutties found it useful to illustrate our discussion by practical demonstration...

[This message has been edited by UrbnTbone (edited 07-10-2003).]

[Silver Lights]

^ this idiot seem to be on cheap drugs all the time...what a bunch of blarney!

Has anyone notices how many 'satan' threads he keeps posting? He is obsessed with satan and crowley!

[This message has been edited by Silver Lights (edited 07-12-2003).]

[UrbnTbone]

Can't you live without me, stalker?

You're obsessed with me, ya canadian nut; Go climb your maple and get some juice, honey.

BTW the satan threads are pretty successful: you are one living proof of what I claim: satan believers are fanatics without brains/souls/hearts They are the ever-persecutors, the stalkers, those whose theology can be summed up in the image of a libel and innocents burning at the stake.

No, your extreme onction, I'm not a satanist. You are obsessed with deep psychological issues, and try to find a refuge in:

* your maniac "solara" stargate cult as you mailed to me once,

* nazi hatred for Jews and any intelligent sentient beings,

* posing as a girl while your mail header was "Brian",

* and all these miserable substitute for real life treatment of your mental condition...

*

No, I won't stop posting food for thought because of ignorant bigots. Don't like it, don't read it, ya deadly satanic threadkiller.

~~~~~~~~~~~

BTTopic

Again: the idea of satan is originally nothing of an independant entity, a "fallen" angel, a rebel. It is just one of many shades of the creative light. That which purpose is to cast shadows and ultimately serve the value of light.

Ethymologically: a cross, a crosser, an accusator. By extension, any cosmic power that gets in the way of positive manifestations, and seems to disturb it, while its deeper purpose is to add value and stimulate the positive expressions of life, thought, devotion, basically anything good.

Thank you Silverfights.

[Silver Lights]

fibone, are you still on drugs? Is it cocaine or just plain weed?

[UrbnTbone]

I have to apologize, why did I answer satanic flames in this thread, and left interesting input unnoticed?

quote:Originally posted by Dr Kamme:

I thought Satan was an earlier regional god the hebrews were trying to replace? The Lord of Flies was mesopotanian?

I probably skipped that back then, because I am an ignorant in the matter. I don't know. Original god, replace, maybe, maybe not. Who knows for sure? The horned god is much older than the idea of a horned satan, that's for sure. And it was not a negative god BTW. Was it about fertility, necessary drives like reproduction?

The idea of a horned satan (as a cosmic pattern under allmighty's command) , appears in Isaiah, showing the horned myth in the Bible was not invented by Xians, even though the idea it represents ("rebel angel" heresy) is antinomic to the bible's concept of a "Samael" angel obeying God, delegated to "rule" planet Mars, testing human purpose and dedication, also ruling war, murder, and related quarrels, a "free-will enforcement" squad that humans better refine in themselves.

quote:

Also, if Lucifer is Prometheus.. aaargghh, the Jungian Archetypes,.. aarrggh

Well yes, Jung had a thesis and was showing correspondences between traditions. Actually it is interesting to assume the hypothesis that all traditions are really differentiations of the same common root. It doesn't mean that anything with some common points in the narrative, is of the same essence.

Prometheus idea is strikingly similar to, but doesn't redeem Xian myth which in turn is totally in opposition with the Bible it supposedly stems from.

quote:Satanism is so much a symbiote of christianity that I find it hard to take it seriously.

That's right, Dr. K, that big swindle of a creation rebelling against its creator, is a Xian creation (in the biblical context), although it is a resurgence of Ahriman/Ormuzd

Well, that catholic page omits that Xian theology is of similar essence, with evil being an independant and a real challenger to good. While the Torah Bible has it much more logical, with an unique essence having various complementary manifestations. In that matter, say, Hinduism with its complementary gods, is much closer than Xianity to the simple facts of reality. BTW scientifical examination has it the same: the universe is made of an unique particle, differentiated in its combinations. There can't be totally independant forces. Everything is closely related!

The word atom is not ethymologically correct, since there are smaller particles and even smaller ones, forming electrons,protons, neutrons. what is the world made of?

Physicists have identified 12 building blocks that are the fundamental constituents of matter

Our everyday world is made of just three of these building blocks: the up quark, the down quark and the electron

Strange matter is composed of up, down, and strange quarks"

In the exploration of the spiritual, there is no limit either, what seemed evident yesterday can be just gross today. Because we come to understand deeper insights and everything becomes relative. Unless we choose to stick to blind faith...

[This message has been edited by UrbnTbone (edited 07-12-2003).]

[Tyrant]

quote:Originally posted by Todesgehen:

In Job it says Satan walked with God, this shows that Satan and God have a close relationship. It is my belief and quite a few others that Satan is the 2nd in command below God and that Satan brings forth evidence agaisnt humanities salvation.

I think Goethe believed that too... or, at least, that's what Faust implies:

quote:

Mephisto: Since you, O Lord, once more draw near

And ask how all is getting on, and you

Were ever well content to see me here,

You see me also midst your retinue.

Forgive, fine speeches I can never make,

Though all the circle look on me with scorn;

Pathos from me would make your sides with laughter shake,

Had you not laughter long ago forsworn.

Of suns and worlds I've naught to say worth mention.

How men torment thme claims my whole attention.

Earth's little god retains his same old stamp and ways

And is as singular as on the first of days.

A little better would he live, poor wight,

Had you not given him that gleam of heavenly light.

He calls it Reason, only to pollute

Its use by being brutaler than any brute.

It seems to me, if you'll allow, Your Grace,

He's like a grasshopper, that long-legged race

That's made to fly and flying spring

And in the grass to sing the same old thing.

If in the grass he always were reposing!

But in each filthy heap he keeps on nosing.

Lord: You've nothing more to say to me?

You come but to complain unendingly?

Is never aught right to your mind?

Mephisto: No, Lord! All is still downright bad, I find.

Man in his wretched days makes me lament him;

I am myself reluctant to torment him.

This implies, just as was mentioned before, that not only are Yahweh and Satan often in contact with each other, but Satan (here Mephisto, short for Mephistopheles) has the function of reporting the condition of humanity to God, which would indicate a level of importance TO God.

In other words, it's completely within possibility.

[Tyrant]

Keep in mind this was written between the time frames of 1749 and 1832. People were a little bit closer in touch with religious studies at this point. Also, note how Mephisto refers to God with a certain reverence, sarcastic though it may seem.

And if you want to talk Jungian archetypes (hahaha), notice how closely in league Loki is with Wotan and the rest of the Aesir in Asatru.

[UrbnTbone]

Goethe is considered an adept. He passed a lot of relevant mystical information through his works.

When Goethe describes some Mephisto character you can be confident it is not the Xian archetype, and if culturally he had to make it up as if it was "the" xian type of a satan, yet you can recognize the originality of his character compared to full Xian legend of a "rebel angel" and "lucifer", which are really closer to the zoroastrian/manichean duality than to anything biblical.

Let's call it didactic, with traits the basic westerner mind can grasp such as distance with God, maybe even bordering ironical. But it shows the respect due by the servant to its master, and is compatible with sane adversity theory: that of a force included in the plan, to that matter, some yin/yang comparison could be risked. Nothing independant or rebellious, but a mature vision of adversity as a component of the cosmic recipe.