i thought god loved me...

if god lvoes me no matter what i do...why would he send me to hell? i couldnt send somebody i love to burn forever in a lake of fire. these are little fairy tales, and every nation has their own. it's kinda childish of christians to say "no their god is fake ours is the only real one" because everybody has their own shit. They just make something up for people to live by so the world isnt living hell.

[IllusoryVeracity]

No God doesn't really love you. He only loves certain people. It looks to me like you are doomed.

and how could Heaven really be heavenly for you if you knew that anyone was suffering in Hell, if you were in any way a caring person? (especially if it were to be a friend or family memeber)

[Dark_Magneto]

It couldn't be what the Bible would have you think heaven is, unless you were brainwashed 9even though you don't have a brain) and didn't know about them, or unlessyou didn;t experience human emotion since you were no longer human, in which case there is no joy or sadness.

God is heaven and ANYTHING other than God is Hell.

[Raz]

or there is no god.. Oh My Goodness!

Fairy tale is right.

[ArmsMerchant]

As I have said before, and will say again ad infinitum ad nausem, hell is a myth. It was created and promulgated by the priesthood to control the flock.

God loves and creates, neither judges nor punishes. We are all pefect in the eyes of god, as we are in fact. That does not mean we do not need to grow.

An acorn is perfect, but it is a long way from being an oak tree.

[buddy dobbs]

The christian bible clearly says "all sins are forgiven" It does not say "If you accept jesus into your heart" It does not say "If you beg for god's mercy" It does not say " If you fill the collection plate" It does not say " If you even believe in god" My point is if all sins are forgiven, there is no one in hell. Think about it.

[Dark_Magneto]

quote:Originally posted by Hammer&Sickle:

And yes it is probable but think about it people. The only thing we know for a fact is science. Why try to prove a religion correct of incorrect, by definition it is a belief. therefore it cannot be proven incorrect or correct like a theory or hypothesis could. What religion deals with is beyond science, therefore it cannot be proven correctly or analytically therefore leave it alone, as soon as science gets there, it will solve your problem

Well, with the caveat that "proof" is reserved for math and logic, anyway, and science is limited to "proof beyond a reasonable doubt".

Why couldn't there be reasonable doubt? After all different religions worship different incarnations of a higher power. That is not a very reliable or persuasive argument.

[This message has been edited by neon (edited 06-22-2003).]

[Dark_Magneto]

quote:Originally posted by Hammer&Sickle:

Yes but "Reasonable doubt" does not apply to religion.

Logic as a concept doesn't apply to religion. God doesn't exist in the realm of logic and reason is inapplicable to it. Any discussion of God and ultimate reality cannot be constrained by basic principles of rationality. This makes rational discourse about God impossible.

Since rational discourse about God is impossible, there is nothing rational anyone can say about God and nothing rational anyone can say to support their belief or disbelief in God. Since there are no rational constraints on religious discourse, religious convictions, including any religious convictions you or anyone else may have, are beyond any debate or rational discussion.

Either you believe in a particular religion for no rational reason whatsoever, or you simply don't believe in a religion, and that's all there is to it. There are no rational reasons to believe, and there are no rational or logical refutations to any asserted claims that must be supported by belief.

[This message has been edited by Dark_Magneto (edited 06-22-2003).]

[TigerJK]

quote:Originally posted by Hammer&Sickle:

Yes it says all of the above, but your missing something, The bible states that all sins are forgiven only if you are truly sorry for what you have done, therefore there is a possibility that people might go to hell because they are not sorry for there actions. That is a well known fact about the bible and christian doctrine, otherwise people could do whatever they want to.

A lot of Christian doctrine isn't straight bible message.

It ranges from literal interpretation to crazy extrapolation to Just-plain-made-up-shit.

Blame the church, not God.

quote:Originally posted by SmArTaSsDaVe7:

if god lvoes me no matter what i do...why would he send me to hell? i couldnt send somebody i love to burn forever in a lake of fire. these are little fairy tales, and every nation has their own. it's kinda childish of christians to say "no their god is fake ours is the only real one" because everybody has their own shit. They just make something up for people to live by so the world isnt living hell.

I dont know where you got the idea that God loves you, maybe you been sitting in traffic looking at somones bumper sticker or something. Any it says in the Bible that you are God's unwanted child, capice? Now just accept your status and bogger off

why the hell did god put us here in the first place,to give us a chance to fuck up?

and why is smoking weed againtst the church,it says nowhere in the bible that you cant blaze up.i think that instead of passing the collection plate, we should have a communal bowl,you fill it with your shit and toke, and pass it, ahh,heavenly.

[UrbnTbone]

quote:Originally posted by SmArTaSsDaVe7:

if god lvoes me no matter what i do...why would he send me to hell?

I'm not defending the religious point, just to make it clear: to understand this, you can refer to the eastern religions, with their reincarnation theories and the karma accountability. It's not God that throws you to 'hell' it's your own thoughts speech and actions that change something in the order of the worlds, physically and spiritually. Once you leave the body, you are subject to the changes caused, for the good as for the lesser good.

quote: it's kinda childish of christians to say "no their god is fake ours is the only real one" because everybody has their own shit.

Everybody says the same. If you are tolerant and love spiritual riches and diversity, good for you and good for the world.

OK...THIS IS FOR CHRISTIANS

Do you think all the other religions around the world are made up? Or that there are more than one god or heaven? I'm not tryin to prove you wrong I'm just wondering.

[UrbnTbone]

Trying to answer your question:

every religion does reveal the inner nature of the human who follows it.

If it is evil, seeks superiority, the nature of the follower will try to use religion as a justification for its foolishness.

If it has some drop of a refinement, it may end up questioning itself, then will definitely find the true face of religion: lovely, caring attention for the universe and all that makes it. Hate for lies and divisive behaviour even under the guise of fear of God...

If it is already refined, it will gently be drawn to good traits, and will naturally keep away from defiling traits such as greed, violence, exclusion, cowardice, etc...

Any religion has in it the path to this goal, and can also be used to reach the opposite result, depending on the follower's good or evil nature, and/or their determination to self-refine instead of trying to refine others.

A religious may open the door to by-passers, but may not even dream of forcing anyone in.

A true christian may look at an atheist fanatic and at a religious fanatic, with the same effort to understand some pityful situation. One may look at self with the left eye when necessary, but they should always look at others with the right eye.

Did it answer?

[UrbnTbone]

quote:Originally posted by Dark_Magneto:

Logic as a concept doesn't apply to religion. God doesn't exist in the realm of logic and reason is inapplicable to it. Any discussion of God and ultimate reality cannot be constrained by basic principles of rationality. This makes rational discourse about God impossible.

Not far. Except for rational discourse about other topics than the binary existence or not, of God. Rational discourse is one of the tools of theology, compared religions, etc...

quote:Since rational discourse about God is impossible, there is nothing rational anyone can say about God and nothing rational anyone can say to support their belief or disbelief in God. Since there are no rational constraints on religious discourse, religious convictions, including any religious convictions you or anyone else may have, are beyond any debate or rational discussion.

about God about God within some hypothesis or postulate, yes there is room for rational discussion.

belief or disbelief in God Well there is room for rational discussion even though proof is always uncertain for or against. Yes, it is the least discussable point.

quote:Either you believe in a particular religion for no rational reason whatsoever, or you simply don't believe in a religion, and that's all there is to it. There are no rational reasons to believe, and there are no rational or logical refutations to any asserted claims that must be supported by belief.

What if belief in God was proven to disminish cancer or heart problems? There would be a reason then. But belief is not on demand. It has some rational questioning, and some feeling as well. It's like eating antioxydant foods, it doesn't come by chance, you first learn about the benefits, then you acknowledge the inconvenience, then you make a choice and a commmitment.

Belief has something to do with conscious, subjective decision too. The only thing is, one's choice ought to be individual, not the mere product of a cultural exposition or a reaction against a system.

So if your environment tells you there is a God and such is his name and paths of worship, you should question that.

And if they tell you there is no god, and such are the proofs and ways of antiworship worship, you should question it as well.

Then you design your own niche in the middle pillar of what you're suggested, deliberate opposite exploration and what you decide after all that.

[Fuck]

quote:Originally posted by Hammer&Sickle:

as for why smoking weed is a sin is because weed hurts your body as all drugs that are taken for pleasure do....and it is a sin to hurt or damage the temple of christ, which is your body get it?

Then I guess eating or touching anything with a single germ on it, or breathing in air with pollution in it, or drinking coca cola would also be against God? They all harm your body, right? Scratching an itch too hard harms your body. Being out in the sun too long harms your body. Since all weed does is kill brain cells, and you want to label that as harming your body, then what is the difference between weed and any other type of substance that harms any other type of cell in your body? Literally, almost anything is harmful to your body. If you want to try to be literal about everything, then why not look at EVERY SINGLE THING that "damages the temple of christ". If you don't, then you're just being ignorant and contradicting yourself.

[This message has been edited by Fuck (edited 06-28-2003).]

[Rust]

"why is smoking weed againtst the church,"

Smoking weed is not a sin, and is not against the "Church", thats if you are referring to Catholic Church.

"because weed hurts your body"

No, this is not the reason.

The only reason weed would be a sin, in the Church's point of view,is if it becomes a vice, just like alcohol and cigarrets. You've seen at least a priest or two smoking or drinking, right?

Again, this is just what the Catholic Church says/believes.

ok douchebag...you were tellin me that i dont know shit about what im talking about...thanks for noticing!! THAT'S WHY I MADE THIS TOPIC!! you're a dipshit...

[Silver Lights]

quote:Originally posted by SmArTaSsDaVe7:

if god lvoes me no matter what i do...why would he send me to hell?

because you were mean to me