Reading the Qur'an

[Sephiroth]

I am now reading the Qur'an out of curiousity and because knowledge is power (especially on the debate circuit) and I am wondering if any Moslems out there (or at least persons familiar with the book) might be able to direct me to some important, inspiring, or provacative Surahs that I should read or pay close attention to.

I will appreciate your responses.

[gombowlzombie]

quote:Originally posted by Sephiroth:

I am now reading the Qur'an out of curiousity and because knowledge is power (especially on the debate circuit) and I am wondering if any Moslems out there (or at least persons familiar with the book) might be able to direct me to some important, inspiring, or provacative Surahs that I should read or pay close attention to.

I will appreciate your responses.

It is spelled muslim.

[TigerJK]

quote:Originally posted by gombowlzombie:

It is spelled muslim.

It is also spelt Moslem, although this spelling is seen less frequently these days.

[SuperMan]

Hello. Im muslim. Tell me what topics you're interested in most. I'll try to help.

You can start with Fatiha, Yasin, and last 20 pages of KORAN. Those are most recited among muslims. Yasin is believed to be "heart of Koran" as is mentioned in one of hadiths of prophet Muhammad(S.A.W).

Feel free to ask.

[SpaceFalcon2001]

quote:Originally posted by gombowlzombie:

It is spelled muslim.

actually both spellings (moslem, and muslim) are correct. So is the diffrence between Qur'an and Koran, since the original language does not use the latin character set.

[gombowlzombie]

quote:Originally posted by TigerJK:

It is also spelt Moslem, although this spelling is seen less frequently these days.

Thank you.

[gombowlzombie]

quote:Originally posted by SuperMan:

Hello. Im muslim. Tell me what topics you're interested in most. I'll try to help.

You can start with Fatiha, Yasin, and last 20 pages of KORAN. Those are most recited among muslims. Yasin is believed to be "heart of Koran" as is mentioned in one of hadiths of prophet Muhammad(S.A.W).

Feel free to ask.

Have you been to a christain church?

If so then you can help me with my next question.

[SuperMan]

Yes I've been to 2-3 christian churches. These were really old churches, and I visited out of curiosity. But I dont understand why you are asking. I never was a christian, but I know enough (I think) about christianity. What will be your next question? ))

[snuggusia]

I am also a Muslim (Moslem is considered offensive by some)and a former Catholic. The brother has mentioned the Surah's that you should read, a very well versed idea of Islam. If you have questions.. shoot.

[gombowlzombie]

quote:Originally posted by SuperMan:

Yes I've been to 2-3 christian churches. These were really old churches, and I visited out of curiosity. But I dont understand why you are asking. I never was a christian, but I know enough (I think) about christianity. What will be your next question? ))

What is the difference between services and how people treat each other? In american chirstain churches its a place to go worship, but the local mosque its a community where members can go if they are in need.

Is this true where you live?



[This message has been edited by gombowlzombie (edited 04-30-2003).]

[snuggusia]

[quote]Originally posted by gombowlzombie:

[b] What is the difference between services and how people treat each other? In american chirstain churches its a place to go worship, but the local mosque its a community where members can go if they are in need.

Is this true where you live?



I Truly dont think that christian churches are just a place of worship. back in my catholic days I have seen people coming in there for help too. Then again it all depends on what kind of help you are speaking of.

Plus, lots of muslims go to american moques just for worship also, not just help seeking. It may vary from country to country thou... the brother from Turkey could maybe give you his idea of what goes on over there. From my travels (Morocco) I have only seen people going to the mosque to worship... "the beggars" stayed out on the street.

[gombowlzombie]

[quote]quote:Originally posted by snuggusia:

[b]

Originally posted by gombowlzombie:

What is the difference between services and how people treat each other? In american chirstain churches its a place to go worship, but the local mosque its a community where members can go if they are in need.

Is this true where you live?



I Truly dont think that christian churches are just a place of worship. back in my catholic days I have seen people coming in there for help too. Then again it all depends on what kind of help you are speaking of.

Plus, lots of muslims go to american moques just for worship also, not just help seeking. It may vary from country to country thou... the brother from Turkey could maybe give you his idea of what goes on over there. From my travels (Morocco) I have only seen people going to the mosque to worship... "the beggars" stayed out on the street.

I am not sure but my local mosque provides health care to memebers (alot of the memebrs are doctors.) down on their luck and

it has its own libary too.

[Spirit of '22]

Are you looking into Islam so you have a place "to go for help"? If so thats sad and you should stop looking at it.

[gombowlzombie]

quote:Originally posted by Spirit of '22:

Are you looking into Islam so you have a place "to go for help"? If so thats sad and you should stop looking at it.

no. I want to know if it is true.

[Cassiel]

Just to add an aspect of linguistic "correctism" it should probably be spelled "Muslim" because in Arabic "Islam" is the verbal noun of "selema" which is "to surrender." When you add the "Mu" (Pronounced "Moo") to the beginning of many Arabic verbs it makes them the enactor of that verb, much like how in English "er" is added to a verb like "baker" or "candlestick maker."

[Cassiel]

Pardon me, the verb "to surrender" is "Aslema," "Muslim" is drawn from the root of Aslema.

[Kikey_Kikeowitz]

quote:Originally posted by gombowlzombie:

no. I want to know if it is true.

I'll save you some time. It isn't.

Take your religious hatred outta here Kikeowitz. He's asking a question and you shouldn't flame him.

[This message has been edited by yamahama (edited 05-01-2003).]

[SuperMan]

Hello again. Brother (or sister?) Snuggusia told the situation as it is of today in every part of the world. Actually masjids (mosques) are supposed to be the places not only for prayers. This should be a place where muslims meet, study sciences, exchange information.... But again it is all about people. Some visit mosques for just a prayer, some are looking for more. I think that the same goes for churches too.

About treatment. In islam muslims are one ummah(think of it as family). They refer to each other by sister and brother. Everyone tries to help each other the way he/she can. There is a hadith that the one who can sleep while his neighbour is hungry is not from us (cannot be a muslim).

There are not much standard services provided in mosques. In many mosques you can find Koran courses, library. But if you need any help Im sure imam of mosque will find a way to help you. In other words imam acts as 'coordinator' among muslims.

Allah reigns praise to allah, praise to allah praise to allah praise to allah

kill all infidels let me fuck me virgins.

Allah is good

Allah is cool

Allah doesn't let women go to school.

Most Importantly, the Koran teaches Jihad! With out this truth the world is damned. Allah give to the ones who Jihad for him 70 virgins. Muslems will say the Koran does not teach this, but it does. I am a native of Egypt, and in the holy book of Surah, this is emphasised greatest!!!

ALLAH REIGNS!!!

Alllah also loves

Submit to allah and you too can hav 70 virgins to fuck

[Sephiroth]

quote:Originally posted by SuperMan:

Hello. Im muslim. Tell me what topics you're interested in most. I'll try to help.

You can start with Fatiha, Yasin, and last 20 pages of KORAN. Those are most recited among muslims. Yasin is believed to be "heart of Koran" as is mentioned in one of hadiths of prophet Muhammad(S.A.W).

Feel free to ask.

I was interested in what the Koran says about fidelity and marriage. Thanks!

[Kikey_Kikeowitz]

quote:Originally posted by yamahama:

Take your religious hatred outta here Kikeowitz. He's asking a question and you shouldn't flame him.

[This message has been edited by yamahama (edited 05-01-2003).]

What you call 'religious hatred', I call 'what I believe to be truth.'

I've no hatred for muslims, though I do think you follow a backwards and foolish religion that should be abolished.

I hate the sin, not the sinner. The sin, in this case, being Islam.

[SuperMan]

Sephiroth, I got your question, and will try to answer as soon as possible(I have to research a little).

Reply to Attitude_Man: Koran teaches Jihad, I agree. But what is jihad?Go and research.

Also Islam does not prevent women from going to school, that is studying. In fact there are female ulema in Islam. Surprised?

And please, when talking show facts,not phrases like f.. that, f... those....

Kikey_Kikeowitz:That is quiet unlogical to hate religion but be neutral to its followers. And you also please show facts why it is foolish and backwards.

[snuggusia]

quote:Originally posted by Attitude_Man:

Most Importantly, the Koran teaches Jihad! With out this truth the world is damned. Allah give to the ones who Jihad for him 70 virgins. Muslems will say the Koran does not teach this, but it does. I am a native of Egypt, and in the holy book of Surah, this is emphasised greatest!!!

ALLAH REIGNS!!!

I wonder if you really understand the concept of Jihad. and just to clarify it to you and others, it is the concept of struggle of one self to be pure and as bound to Allah's comands (in the Koran and if you look at the Torah (sp?) - they are pretty close). It states nothing about terrorism at all... protetion of your self when you are attacked yes (and all those Al-Quada guys just take an advantage of that concept it self).

As to your comment of "f*^&ing" virgins, what are you talking about? By Sharia law the maximum that a man can marry is 4, and only if he can support them all and treat them equally. If you are talking about jennah, as a reward a man may be serviced by the 70 not for other reasons. Remembering again what the reward is, and again we go back to the deffinition of Jihad (I doubt that the 9/11 boys will be enjoying the 70 virgin services, and more will be tourmented in their burning flesh).

[UrbnTbone]

quote:I doubt that the 9/11 boys will be enjoying the 70 virgin services, and more will be tourmented in their burning flesh).

More what? Please explain. More other people, more infidels, more americans will be burning? Or, as you seem to indicate but not so clearly (you can't lie outright, by law, right?), more suicide terrorists will be damned in hell for misunderstanding the kur'an? Please be clear and definitive, we want to learn more. There is an art of saying stuff without technically implying anything. It was called wooden tongue and used by the communists, but I believe any religious trying to imply stuff without crossing their faith, could use those techniques as well.

So, do you mean the moslim 'martyr' terrorists are in hell burning?

Please be clear. Make a clear statement, not one that can be understood in various ways.

[UrbnTbone]

Oh yes, and

manahaya shithead, you are the one complaining about religious hatred? I can't believe it. You just posted supposed 'talmudic racist jokes' on another thread, you dirty nazi ass-licker. Or would you be a moslim fundy? About the same anyway. Go get lost.

Me, I'm catholic, converted to Judaism and a proud agnosticist by now. I know how religion IS a mental illness that does much more harms than supposed welfare and 'peace'.

There is not such a thing as reform, moderate religion. Reform Judaism is not Judaism, reform christianism is not either, and reform Islam is butt as well. The only religious truth is in the old ways of religion, therefore religion sucks because as deep as you go into it to look for lovely principles, you will find the seeds of hate and destruction as well. Well religion is human. It's shit.

But being selectively derogatory to some religions is a double-edged sword which may chop your own head some day, butthole. Don't judge others, because you are judging yourself in another situation, and that will come to pass.

[Sephiroth]

I apologize that this post has become a religous mudslinging festival.

quote:Originally posted by Attitude_Man:

Submit to allah and you too can hav 70 virgins to fuck

you are nothing but a bastart u have no clue what our religion is about it is about peace not about fucking 70 virgins

quote:Originally posted by Sephiroth:

I apologize that this post has become a religous mudslinging festival.

u got that right lol

[UrbnTbone]

I was asking is it true that muslims denying the 9/11 WTC mess always do so in terms that are not 100% clear.

[Aphelion Corona]

As a Jew I feel I should apologise for Kikey's insults.

He's why we discourage conversions.

And in response to the question, Sura 2 is quite interesting.

AC

I have read the Qu'ran. It's a very difficult read I assure you. As far searching for truth or wisdom I found no less truth or wisdom in that book than in the Bible. It's all Point of View. Yes, they do believe in Jesus (Isa), and the Virgin Mary (Marium) for those who are curious. They almost believe in all the stories about him except that he was crucified or that he was the Son of God.

[UrbnTbone]

quote:Originally posted by Aphelion Corona:

He's why we discourage conversions.

AC

He is a reform 'convert'

[UrbnTbone]

57 "When Moses, too, asked drink for his people and we said, ‘Strike with thy staff the rock,’ and from it burst forth twelve springs; each man among them knew his drinking place. ‘Eat and drink of what God has provided, and transgress not on the earth as evildoers.’ 58 And when they said, Moses, we cannot always bear one kind of food; pray then thy Lord to bring forth for us of what the earth grows, its green herbs, its cucumbers, its garlic, its lentils, and its onions.’ Said he, ‘Do ye ask what is meaner instead of what is best? Go down to Egypt,- there is what ye ask.’ Then were they smitten with abasement and poverty, and met with wrath from God. That was because they had misbelieved in God’s signs and killed the prophets undeservedly; that was for that they were rebellious and had transgressed.

59 Verily, whether it be of those who believe, or those who are Jews or Christians or Sabaeans, whosoever believe in God and the last day and act aright, they have their reward at their Lord’s hand, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve."

But further it goes condescendently meaning who received and who rejected the word of God. The kind of antisemitic rhetorics also found currently in the gospels and apostles' letters.

What about me? I don't believe the text is inspired, I believe in God and in doing right, but not the kind paternalist shit of religious dogmas.

Then to moslims I'm probably an 'infidel'.

To me anyone judging God and putting pressure on God's 'will', is the essence of infidelity.

God is free and above human dogmas and folly. The hell with fucking dictators...

[Aphelion Corona]

Read "The Cow". It's got some juicy bits like:



107 The Jews say, ‘The Christians rest on nought;’ and the Christians say, ‘The Jews rest on nought; and yet they read the Book. So, too, say those who know not, like to what these say; but God shall judge between them’ on the resurrection day concerning that whereon they do dispute.

Pretty damn accurate if you ask me, which you didn't.

[2.62] Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve.

w00t!

AC

[UrbnTbone]

That answers things, but it seems to be in contradiction with some parts implying that the non-belief in Islam specifically is an act of infidelity? (Further in the link, BTW it's from your link that I posted above.)

[SuperMan]

Post No: 5

Sorry Sephiroth. I posted you some links a while ago, I dont know why it is not seen on the board. After I posted I just deleted my file with those links. The only one I remember is www.jannah.org >>(goto)Sisters. There youll find some articles on fidelity and status of women in Islam.(At the bottom)

[UrbnTbone]

quote:Originally posted by Aphelion Corona:

Read "The Cow". It's got some juicy bits like:



107 The Jews say, ‘The Christians rest on nought;’ and the Christians say, ‘The Jews rest on nought; and yet they read the Book. So, too, say those who know not, like to what these say; but God shall judge between them’ on the resurrection day concerning that whereon they do dispute.

Pretty damn accurate if you ask me, which you didn't.

[2.62] Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve.

w00t!

AC

There is that article on Ismailism

here on totse:

"The Jews had gone astray when they claimed that they are the chosen people of God, hence they believed in a National God, who belongs only to Jews.

As E. M. Burnes in his book Western Civilization points out, at the beginning Jews even acknowledged the existence of other Gods belonging to other nations, just as Yahwah was the God of Israel (17)

The Jewish theology deviated in a manner that they reached to reject the existence of any God save their special God (Yahwah) Not only did they make themselves the chosen people of God, but they rejected the teachings of Moses, their prophet, as represented in the old Testament, and adopted a special interpretation of their teachings reprinted in the book the Talmud (18) This Talmud, includes two Hakhamite Jewish interpretations, Al-Mashna and Al-Jumara which, moreover, represent a grave deviation from the real teachings of Moses.

Thus after this deviation, Judaism could not meet with the teachings of Christianity and Islam and other heavenly religions. Because it became after these aspects of deviation and interpretation, some thing like a special religion made by its later followers.

Finally, Judaism applied in the world as a racial odd creed limited to a particular group, cannot be universal or human, and is no more a Religion"

Perfectly inaccurate information.

Judaism is universal. It is not closed and exclusive to the Jews. It only says the gentiles have less commands to perform in order to reach the world to come. The above is sheer heinous lies, could have been taken from "mein kampf" as well.

The same could be said of the one who wrote it: early people of that religion (Mohammedan) used to follow the book, then they went astray and made up their own interpretations, deviant laws and even some of them, worse, deified some of their dead leaders, which is close to idol-worship.

Further, since that (mohammedan) religion is one of the offsprings, it implies that the Almighty God was unable to follow-up his oath of an eternal alliance given through the Torah. By any basics of logics, he would be no better than a president in need of a government change because of his mistakes in politics... Give us a break with 'tolerant Islam', you guys pull verses from the Coran, but the real face of Islam is far away from the Coran principles of tolerance. It went astray, is not even an abrahamanic religion.

You see, from either and any side, you can pull the blanket to your political agenda and submit God's majesty to petty rotten human disputes, which equals pulling the king's head by the hair and dumping it into the excrements with the pigs. Submitting theology to politics... Ah, my gosh!