edit.

I have no respect for these sorts of things. They're pathetic attempts by would-be actors.

I couldn't tell if people were being serious about using those lines...

I completely agree with your arguments against it, but I would think the point would be moot... I mean, they can't actually work, right? There's no possible way. Right?

quote:Originally posted by ApocalypsePlease:

I mean, they can't actually work, right? There's no possible way. Right?

I've seen guys work these sorts of things. It's not hard, but it's despicable.

http://www.despicable.org/

What's wrong with it being a 'sport', if the object of the game is to score a girl worth keeping (admittedly some PUA's just use it to get laid, however, others don't)?

The best PUA systems just inform people of the nine stages that human beings progress through from the point of meeting a potential mate through to the first sexual experience. Now, an awareness of these stages and the girl's expectations, just gives guys an understanding of the most efficient ways to work out whether or not a girl is worth getting to know. The majority of material isn't 'line based', it has more to do with formulating an understanding of social dynamics, creating an individual image and cultivating self-confidence.

Most women in the club scene are consistently approached in very unoriginal ways... 'Hi, my name's <moron A>, what's yours? Can I buy you a drink?'... or any other number of canned lines. Now, considering how often beautiful women are hit on, it's no surprise that they have formed an understanding of desperate or willing men and mankind's almost universal method of approaching a single woman. PUA's understand how to circumvent this bullshit by entering a set WITHOUT seeking rapport.

Ahem, anyways. People are interested in this because it works. They are or were unhappy with where they stood in the dating game, and by learning the nuances of social interaction, they can possibly gain the ability to easily pick up women. If you can easily pick up women, then you can burn through the drips and find someone highly compatible with you... you never have to settle.

It's easy to see this kind of thing in a negative light, but some people need help in these kind of areas and this is a very successful way.

It's more of a tool used to teach natural social skills and to confront relationship fears.

And it's my understanding that respect of women is highly preached.

I think the intentions are good, but it's not something to be taken so literally.

IMO, practicing lines and rehearsing stories (true or not) is total b/s. That kind of behaviour should not be attributed to the **alpha male** or whatever u want to call him.

Sub-conscious communications should be kept sub-conscious. Thinking that you can map out the mind of another human being like they are a city or something and trying to use it to your advantage does not make you a player.

This sounds lame, but it's honest:

Guys should just be themselves and not try to be some figure described to them by a book or website. Do things naturally.

That said, I will admit that the PUA community thing can be useful in teaching a few basic lessons on social psychology, but "The Game" shouldn't be followed like it's the Holy fucking Bible.

quote:Originally posted by Leduc:

This sounds lame, but it's honest:

Guys should just be themselves and not try to be some figure described to them by a book or website. Do things naturally.

...and when that fails to get any sort of female companionship?!?

See, I have nothing against this sort of thing. We do it everyday. We manipulate others to see things the way we want them to see things. This could include everything from makeup, clothes, colognes, smiling, posture, etc. and even outright lying. All PUA shit is is the natural evolution of effective socialization to a higher level. Notice that most of the PUA stuff can be used to manipulate people in general, even far removed from romantic interests, such as with coworkers, teachers, police, ad infinitum.

Best not to get into the PUA community.

There are some things that over time turn you into a robot, where you're all game, but it's just not you.

Plus, over time you start seeing women as less human and stuff like that.

It's all BS really.

quote:Originally posted by Byss:

...and when that fails to get any sort of female companionship?!?

take lots with alcohol.

That's a crutch, it's a weakness.

EDIT: Fixed for harshness, I'm in a nice mood.

[This message has been edited by wooty (edited 02-13-2007).]

I see its ups and downs..

As one suggested, it could turn you into a robot with all the constant routines and your constant laying down of goals and you see the women as numbers, objects rather than people.

To be honest, whilst that is true, the general idea is to have fun and usually by being an attractive guy that women want to know better and it can have both people involved.

Now, I'm not part of any society, but I like to cruise some of the websites now and again and read and understand some of the techniques and ideas involved, some of them I like to try out as part of my personality - acting "cocky and funny" as they put it can be really fun, teasing and making fun of a girl can be really relaxing and spark a great energy between you both.

It's been a while since I've actually done anything, rather than going up and trying to just talk shit though.

Gotta rememeber, not every guy is good looking or socially intelligent and this can lead to loneliness and sexual frustration. A little self improvement here - trying to dress a little sharper, working out, trying to be a bit more outgoing why not?

The so called professionals etc.. well, if they're happy what they're doing, then leave them be - I wouldn't advocate getting into that, but I have no experience of it so I can only go off what I imagine it to be - fake.

I have suggested to many totsiers they look into the idea of learning to seduce/attract and why not? These are guys that are having no luck at all and need a push in the right direction, I don't think there is anything despicable about that.

quote:Originally posted by Euda:

I have no respect for these sorts of things. They're pathetic attempts by would-be actors.

Honestly, I thought the newer crop of moderators had more sense that that. I've read The Game, by Neil Strauss. It's a decent book but by no means some sort of guide book. I dont see whats so bad about it. The things they talk about in the book really do work. How do I know? Because I've used the references from the book to open up such a huge field of research that it takes up a large chunk of my hard drive.

Some people are pretty shady. Ross Jefferies for example uses NLP (nuro linguistic programming) to force chicks to feel things when he wants them too. Think of it like describing the taste of an orange so well that the person can taste the orange. Hes a shady son of a bitch if you ask me.

But I ask you totse, whats so wrong in learning the fine points of human interaction? Isnt that the moto of totse, read know do? Theres nothing out there short of a drug that will help you truely take advantage of women. PUA's are just people who have learned how to talk to chicks. Ever kick yourself and say, "damnit I just dont understand women, does anyone?" Well these people do. Well up to the point of a relationship anyway, thats a whole different animal.

And before you ask, yes I have tried these things. Do they work? Yes they do but it's a mixed bag. All of the PUA stuff relies on confidence. If you dont have that then none of this shit will work. You will just sound like a chump reading a cue card.



Here are some of my favorite references.

The Game by Neil Strauss AKA style

Body Language, How to read others'thoughts by their gestures by Allan Pease

The Mystery Method by Mystery

The Annihilation Method by Neil Strauss (This is a multi video set. Have fun finding it.)

And just about anything by David DeAngelo.

Read on.

I don't think there's anything wrong with learning the rules of the game, not by any stretch of the imagination.

It IS a game, and either you understand the rules or not doesn't change the fact that it's just a very elaborate game.

Some guys learn the rules instinctively, and others don't - for the second type of guy, it's only logical that they try to learn the rules from those who have figured it out and are willing to explain how it works.

HOWEVER... taking the game seriously? There's just something fucking lame about that. It smells like overcompensation for insecurity, I suppose. I don't know, I haven't thought about it enough to have a detailed opinion. It just seems weak somehow.

quote:Originally posted by Das Troll:



The Annihilation Method by Neil Strauss (This is a multi video set. Have fun finding it.)



Real toughie

http://tinyurl.com/3bntv7

Personally, I don't have a real problem with the whole scene although I do dislike the misogyny and roboticism that can be associated with it.

-F☺rd

Thats like saying if you train in any sort of martial arts your a weak loser because you cant do it without training. It's a skill, learn it.

quote:Originally posted by Das Troll:

Thats like saying if you train in any sort of martial arts your a weak loser because you cant do it without training. It's a skill, learn it.

Who are you talking to?

quote:Originally posted by fullcircle:

It just seems weak somehow.

YOU FOO!

quote:Originally posted by Das Troll:

YOU FOO!

I don't see how your comment applies to what I said.

EDIT: you seem to have misunderstood what I meant by "taking the game seriously"

[This message has been edited by fullcircle (edited 02-13-2007).]

Why not take it seriously. Anything can be Zen.