I was just up at the local Palace of Hell (supermarket) shopping for the meal tonight. Stood outside waiting for a taxi when this young bloke comes up to me , maybe 19 years old, and asks me if he could bum a fag (for the Americans among us that means he wanted i give him a ciggy , not some sexual solicitation!).

I may be a mean cold hearted soul but I don't think I'd ever refuse a gajee an oily (=a man a smoke), a meal or a drink. Been there too often myself.

So we both stood there smoking and talking , as you do. Turns out he knows my kids well (most people do round here....usually along the lines of 'you are so NOT dating any of Jack's sons!)

Anyways He told me that about a month before Xmas his girlfriend (17 years old) had died giving birth to their first son. Turns out she'd had some rare heart condition etc. I actually remember my kids being quite cut up at the news when it happened but as I didn't know the people involved I hadn't paid it much heed.

He and she had been living together and had been a couple for about 2 years.

Unfortunately they had never thought to marry and so now he was having to go through the courts and fight Social Services to get custody of his own son!

You think marriage an outdated concept? You think true love don't need no paper?

Well thats your choice...you have every right to be wrong!

But if she's pregnant and you and she want to have the child then GET MARRIED.

I don't care in what jurisdiction you live in, most places thses days getting married is a fairly quick and easy process.

Hell, for all I care you can treat the whole thing as a 'fake marriage'and both continue to shag other people. You don't even have to live together.

But get that sodding piece of paper before the child is born.

These days we forget all too often just how fucking dangerous giving birth can be. Women DO still die during it . Women do sometimes still go insane shortly after giving birth and get committed.

Get that cert. Not for her sake or even the kids but yours.

You think after losing his girlfriend that he really needs the stress and heartache of a legal battle for his own kid?





[This message has been edited by jackketch (edited 01-09-2007).]

I'll definately keep that in mind if the situation ever pops up.. I'd definately want to be very involved in my children's lives. Try to be the oppisite of my dad who was never there until he no longer needed to pay child support.

I think that with a DNA match unless there is a solid reason eg. the father is an alcoholic that it should go to the father regardless of being married/not being married.

Marriage itself is fairly outdated politics wise thought it still has some importance to a lot of people spiritually/emotionally.

To do with the politics side it should be if they are living together in a relationship for 12months it should count as being married in my belief.

well, i think you should get married before you have kids anyway.

who wants a bastard?

Personally I wouldn't want an additional daily reminder of my dead lover. But then again, I don't have a soul.

quote:Originally posted by bailoutaccount:

Personally I wouldn't want an additional daily reminder of my dead lover. But then again, I don't have a soul.

If you "don't have a soul", which implies that you're a bit heartless, why would you care if there was a 'reminder' of your dead lover? Clearly you're not as heartles as you wish to make out.

Though it's pretty spiteful, not soulless and empty (*Cough* EMO *Cough*), to say something like that about your child. (Hypothetically)

What reason are they giving for not letting him stay in custody of his own son? Usually, I thought, they have to have a decent reason e.g. doesn't have the income, inappropriate character, drugs, mental instability, unsanitary home etc. or SOMETHING.

quote:Originally posted by jackketch:

Turns out he knows my kids well (most people do round here....usually along the lines of 'you are so NOT dating any of Jack's sons!)



lol

quote:Originally posted by jackketch:

You think marriage an outdated concept? You think true love don't need no paper?

Well thats your choice...you have every right to be wrong!

But if she's pregnant and you and she want to have the child then GET MARRIED.

I don't care in what jurisdiction you live in, most places thses days getting married is a fairly quick and easy process.

Hell, for all I care you can treat the whole thing as a 'fake marriage'and both continue to shag other people. You don't even have to live together.

yes I think Marriage in that sense is a bit out dated. If they were living together and he's the father, he should default to be the caregiver. Atleast that's how I always thought it would happen.

Now I'm not saying Marriage is out dated. But in some situations, getting "married" for certain things to happen is out dated.

As for the "fake marriage"... If you're shaggin other people, that makes it real easy for a divorse if it is just a fake marriage. But it can also bring up complications (financial distribution durring divorse).

Yeah, it's a serious issue that needs looked in to. But it's one of many..

quote:Originally posted by virtualhaze:

yes I think Marriage in that sense is a bit out dated. If they were living together and he's the father, he should default to be the caregiver. Atleast that's how I always thought it would happen.

Me too...but it seems it still doesn't. Hence the reason for the thread.

And let us not forget that many men who post here would, by definition, probably have trouble jumping through whatever hoops Social Services put up.

How many here don't have a conviction for possession of cannabis, for reckless driving, for underage drinking?

How many here would pass a psych-evaluation?

How many here are not financially independent or own their own homes?

You see my point?

And if HER parents don't think him a fit father for their grandchild then you can bet he'll wish he HAD swallowed his politically correct views on marriage being a shackle for women...

[This message has been edited by jackketch (edited 01-09-2007).]

quote:Originally posted by HandOfZek:

Yeah, it's a serious issue that needs looked in to. But it's one of many..

No it isn't.

Without wanting to get too personal, I think in this regard you are an atrocious 'husband' and father.

There can be no valid reason for not providing your family with the very minimum of legal protection.

I think the recent thread by HT showed clearly the fallacy of your thinking.

quote:Originally posted by jackketch:

No it isn't.

Without wanting to get too personal, I think in this regard you are an atrocious 'husband' and father.

There can be no valid reason for not providing your family with the very minimum of legal protection.

I think the recent thread by HT showed clearly the fallacy of your thinking.



I was meaning on a more global scale. <3 though.

That's strange, because de facto relationships here count for just as much as a marriage. I don't see WHY they wouldn't allow the father the right to the child. Is he unfit? Criminal convictions? Are the mothers parents sticking their noses in it?

Being married is fun...I don't see why so many people are reluctant to do it! I mean if you're living with someone and you have a kid together...How is being married going to add to your responsibility?

If you marry, and you're a guy, you lose half your shit.

I'm not getting married.

Over here a defacto marriage that last for over a certain amount of time (I think it is 2 years) the other half is entitled to 50% of everything still.

quote:Originally posted by Xiao Mei:

Being married is fun...I don't see why so many people are reluctant to do it! I mean if you're living with someone and you have a kid together...How is being married going to add to your responsibility?

I don't need a piece of paper or a title to tell me if I want to spend the rest of my life with someone? I'm not saying I don't like marriage, or won't marry ever - hell civil union would be fine with me, but I think it does count for less and less today in a lot of circumstances. Plus with the high rate of seperation.

I can understand getting married if there are children involved, but I also don't find it to be a problem if I have a child out of wedlock and just get married later when/if I feel the need.

[This message has been edited by kAtE- (edited 01-10-2007).]

quote:Originally posted by kAtE-:

I don't need a piece of paper or a title to tell me if I want to spend the rest of my life with someone? I'm not saying I don't like marriage, or won't marry ever - hell civil union would be fine with me, but I think it does count for less and less today in a lot of circumstances. Plus with the high rate of seperation.

I can understand getting married if there are children involved, but I also don't find it to be a problem if I have a child out of wedlock and just get married later when/if I feel the need.



Bearing a bastard isn't the problem or the issue. These ungodly fem-nazi days single mothers have so many 'rights'.

But all these apply only as long as the mother is alive/not commited to a mental instituition.

My point remains valid.

Now if you as a mother don't mind running the risk of your child being raised by the state (whose parenting skills are legendary) then maybe you don't need to be married.

But if you'd like the child's father,your partner, to continue being allowed to raise your child then you need to safeguard by being married.



Remember, just because you KNOW he is/would be an excellent Dad doesn't mean squat. Social Services/Child Protection Agencies will only see the fact he has a conviction for possesion of weed and an alcohol problem.

but doesnt he get to take care of the kid since hes the father????

Since i plan on becomin a father when i'm 40 (23 now) i'll try to keep it in mind until that time

quote:Originally posted by jackketch:

Bearing a bastard isn't the problem or the issue. These ungodly fem-nazi days single mothers have so many 'rights'.

But all these apply only as long as the mother is alive/not commited to a mental instituition.

My point remains valid.

Now if you as a mother don't mind running the risk of your child being raised by the state (whose parenting skills are legendary) then maybe you don't need to be married.

But if you'd like the child's father,your partner, to continue being allowed to raise your child then you need to safeguard by being married.



Remember, just because you KNOW he is/would be an excellent Dad doesn't mean squat. Social Services/Child Protection Agencies will only see the fact he has a conviction for possesion of weed and an alcohol problem.



Why don't you answer my post that was directed at YOUR question and not Xiao's post!!! Which was actually the point of this thread. The post you quoted was more aimed at the idea of marriage in general, not marriage for a childs sake.

quote:Originally posted by kAtE-:

Why don't you answer my post that was directed at YOUR question and not Xiao's post!!! Which was actually the point of this thread. The post you quoted was more aimed at the idea of marriage in general, not marriage for a childs sake.

Because Oh Purple Headed Goddess I was trying to check on the details before i answered.

Heh, if I had born a child out of wedlock, my mother would've hunted me down and had an exsorcism performed on me!:P

quote:Originally posted by jackketch:

Because Oh Purple Headed Goddess I was trying to check on the details before i answered.

Good boy



Haha Xiao, I think it would be beautiful to have my child/children to be part of my wedding party, if that's how things ended up turning out.