No, I'm not looking for advice. I'm more looking for a healthy debate. Believe it or not, as a 17-year-old male, I'm morally opposed to premarital sex. I'm not going to have sex before marriage, and I don't think I could marry someone who did. It just wouldn't cross my mind; I can't be with someone who had someone else's schlong inside her but didn't even care about it enough to stay with him, or to make sure he was the right guy beforehand.

What are your thoughts on the subject?

You're a sinner, and you'll burn in hell for your filthy thoughts!

quote:Originally posted by SilentMind:

You're a sinner, and you'll burn in hell for your filthy thoughts!

Try reading my post before making any assumptions, numbnuts.

It is a noble idea to say no premarital sex. However in this day and age you would be very hard pressed to find a girl who is a virgin around your age.

Even in culturals where the husband can kill the wife if she isn't a virgin still have sex before marriage. Girls are going to do what they want, there is probably like 5% of girls out there that don't. So have fun trying to find one, or for that matter an honest girl.

quote:Originally posted by CarbonB:

It is a noble idea to say no premarital sex. However in this day and age you would be very hard pressed to find a girl who is a virgin around your age.

Even in culturals where the husband can kill the wife if she isn't a virgin still have sex before marriage. Girls are going to do what they want, there is probably like 5% of girls out there that don't. So have fun trying to find one, or for that matter an honest girl.

Forgetting your morals because you think it's a lost cause is as bad as having no morals to begin with.

I would like to not have sex before marrige either. I'm almost 18 and I have yet to have a guy touch me in a sexual way.

Your views on premarital sex are up to you; it's entirely your decision. I personally have no problem with it. I do have a problem with people going out and fucking random people without knowing their names, however.

But really,how do you make sure someone is 'the right one' if you don't date them for a little bit? Intimacy is half of any relationship, which consists of both an emotional and a physical aspect. They're both equally important, and if you don't get to know someone on a physical level, you will never know for sure.

Good luck finding the 'right one' your age who is still a virgin. They're out there, but not as much as a few centuries ago, that's for sure.

quote:Originally posted by Saphi:

I would like to not have sex before marrige either. I'm almost 18 and I have yet to have a guy touch me in a sexual way.

A bit of proof against CarbonB's point. Unless of course you're a gay male, in which case I'm still behind.

lol @ []

quote:Originally posted by Giomanach:

Unless of course you're a gay male, in which case I'm still behind.

Faggot!

quote:Originally posted by SilentMind:

Faggot!

Nice.

OMG teh other guyz's penors make teh girl'z pussy impure! Ewwzors!

What a dork. Grow the fuck up. People have sex. Most women you meet will have had sex. Guess what? If you make out with a chick, there's a pretty good chance she's gone down on a guy! Yeah! You're putting your tongue where some other guy's weiner has been! Ewww!

How can you be morally opposed to premarital sex?

I mean, you can morally opposed to war, or to murder, but premarital sex isn't exactly a moral action.

Personally, I'm pro premarital sex, and I think its stupid to expect or demand otherwise.

hehe numbnutz

keep pumping girls.

i support premarital sex. just do it.

i honestly don't see how someone can claim moral superiority because they waited till marriage to have sex. who's it harming? as long as you don't become a jiggalo, fucking any bitch you meet, then i don't see the big deal.

Yeap, nice idea what you're saying but it's just not gonna happen.

Lose it to someone you care about sure, but maybe you should just date the girl that posted in this thread.

quote:Originally posted by Saphi:

I would like to not have sex before marrige either. I'm almost 18 and I have yet to have a guy touch me in a sexual way.

Maybe cause you is liek ugly?!111!!!



[This message has been edited by DogBoy (edited 12-13-2006).]

I was with somebody for nearly 4 years, we were really happy and got along perfectly.. there never was any issues apart from our families.

We got engaged and were going to get married in the near future, we started planning the wedding, purchasing a house, children etc..

I waited a very long time but i did lose my virginity to him.. and mind you i was a fair few years older then you..



Just when everything was about to fall into place out families made problems and everything fell apart.

I dont regret it at all, i see it as the fact he respected and loved me for a very long time, supported and took care of me we lived together for a year.. it felt as if we were already married..

I used to think the way you do, and i still think if you can do it then thats great but you need to take things into account when judging a woman that way..

I think theres difference with the fact i was living with my partner, with him for years and did wait a very long time..

I didnt go to a party, get drunk and sleep with some stranger.. or meet some guy at a club and get freaky with him..

Although really, you cant judge either way.. what people do with their bodies is their business.

I guess its your view, im just saying if you were to meet a girl who had been with somebody in a long term relationship and was loved and respected by her partner.. or meet a girl who got drunk and fucked dudes at a party.. would you view them exactly the same?.. the fact they both had sex you wouldnt give either of them the time of day..

I think theres a big difference there.. but hey your opinion.

[This message has been edited by shiva (edited 12-13-2006).]

Well it takes willpower and guts to stay a virgin before marriage these days. Good luck with that.

I can't claim to be entirely opposed to all pre-marital sex (I'm not married, though my girlfriend and I have sex); but, at the same time I think there's a real problem with the rampant promiscity and casual attitude about sex that seems to be becoming the norm at a younger and younger age these days.

I know that at 13 or 14 I certainly thought about sex, alot, but I understood that it would be a bad idea to stick it in some random girl after a night of drunken revelry.

In my mind, while sex shouldn't be confined to marriage per-se; keeping it to when you're truly interested in the other party in at least the pseudo-longterm is a good ideal to shoot for.

EDIT: Having said that, on reading the remainder of the replies I'd say that shiva and jojabr are most on track with how I'm thinking.



[This message has been edited by Bito (edited 12-13-2006).]

dude if you are doing this bc of religion i.e. christianity read the bible..."to look at a woman with lust in your heart is to commit adultry" so just thinking about that woman naked and you have done it then remember the new testament where they ask jesus what commandment is the most important and he said. "love your god with all your heart and love your neighbor" so... you've already commited adultry

quote:Originally posted by midvalley:

dude if you are doing this bc of religion i.e. christianity read the bible..."to look at a woman with lust in your heart is to commit adultry" so just thinking about that woman naked and you have done it then remember the new testament where they ask jesus what commandment is the most important and he said. "love your god with all your heart and love your neighbor" so... you've already commited adultry

ZOMG THATS TRUE... looks like ur going to hell.

I want to see your photos.

If that's your view, then live it.

I don't believe in saving myself for marriage, only because I don't believe that marriage is that important. The first time that I had sex was with someone I was dating for one and a half years. Sadly (at the time) things didn't work out. Two or so years later, I meet toraton. We were only together for like... a day when we had sex, but had been talking for months and months. (For those of you who don't know, toraton and I met on #totse on IRC, and he visited me once, then I moved to Seattle to live with him)

I moved here in August of last year, have been with him physically (which means a lot) for about a year and a half now. I love him, and i adore the physical aspect of our relationship together.

I respect people who do not need to have such a relationship, but also respect people who feel that it is an important - even necessary - part of their relationsips.(notice I include the word "relationship" I think sex without a relationship is ridiculous and not for me, but hey, do what you want)

It's all about choice.

I held out with that view till I was 23, now I am going nuts kinda.

i've only ever had sex with 1 person, and she was a virgin when i met her... anti-premarital means nothing to me

quote:Originally posted by Giomanach:

A bit of proof against CarbonB's point. Unless of course you're a gay male, in which case I'm still behind.

You're behind a gay male? What for?

But really, the notion of saving sex for marriage is ridiculous for a number of reasons. I'd never want to stumble into a marriage without knowing if my partner and I were sexual compatible.

Although, I do respect those who do save it although youre reasoning sounds jealous and juvenile

“I can't be with someone who had someone else's schlong inside her but didn't even care about it enough to stay with him”

I think you are exhibiting some unrealistic relationship standards.

And the majority of women of many cultures approve of premarital sex by an overwhelming amount. Finding a virgin by the time you are emotionally and sexually ready for marriage might be difficult.

www.newsgd.com/culture/life/200412200123.htm (http://www.newsgd.com/culture/life/200412200123.htm) www.washtimes.com/national/20051004-104444-3959r.htm (http://www.washtimes.com/national/20051004-104444-3959r.htm) www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2004-12/19/content_401455.htm (http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2004-12/19/content_401455.htm)

english.pravda.ru/russia/history/14-08-2006/83919-premarital_sex-0

-F☺rd

quote:Originally posted by Ford Prefect:

I'd never want to stumble into a marriage without knowing if my partner and I were sexual compatible.

Sexual compatible? You mean your penis doesn't work or her 'gine is in the wrong way round??!

Believe it or not but you are sexually compatible with every single female on the planet...assuming your dick is 'normal'.

Talk about testing sexually compatibly before marriage is crap.

And learning to 'fit' is the whole point of marriage.

quote:Originally posted by Giomanach:

A bit of proof against CarbonB's point. Unless of course you're a gay male, in which case I'm still behind.

I gave a 5% room for error you douche. And it's not that it's impossible, it is like the same idea around getting to stone your neighbor to death. Just old rules that don't apply today.

quote:Originally posted by jackketch:

Sexual compatible? You mean your penis doesn't work or her 'gine is in the wrong way round??!

Believe it or not but you are sexually compatible with every single female on the planet...assuming your dick is 'normal'.

Talk about testing sexually compatibly before marriage is crap.

And learning to 'fit' is the whole point of marriage.



Fair enough

But even the best of marriages will eventually suffer if the sex drives of the partners are unevenly matched. Often such a situation could be remedied but sometimes not.

But I really don't know. I'm practically sleep-typing.

-F☺rd

http://www.totse.com/bbs/Archives/Archive-000002/HTML/20040617-4-007912.html

I hope that worked...Linked to archives.

[This message has been edited by Mindless Xyzzyean (edited 12-13-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by Ford Prefect:



Fair enough

But even the best of marriages will eventually suffer if the sex drives of the partners are unevenly matched. Often such a situation could be remedied but sometimes not.

But I really don't know. I'm practically sleep-typing.

-F☺rd



Sleep well

And the marriage will only suffer when the sex drives are mismatched IF the couple aren't prepared to work it through ...which again is the whole point of marriage.

Marriage isn't so much about being with someone in total harmony for life but rather about with whom you want to spend the rest of your life arguing with.

quote:Originally posted by jackketch:



Marriage isn't so much about being with someone in total harmony for life but rather about with whom you want to spend the rest of your life arguing with.

I like that

-F☺rd



Goodnight!

quote:Originally posted by jackketch:



Sleep well

And the marriage will only suffer when the sex drives are mismatched IF the couple aren't prepared to work it through ...which again is the whole point of marriage.

Marriage isn't so much about being with someone in total harmony for life but rather about with whom you want to spend the rest of your life arguing with.

You're a wise old coot, ketch.

People have been having sex since before marriage was invented.

Were they doing something wrong?

I think its a pretty out dated notion. I think sexual relations with someone you plan to spend the rest of your life with is important, and how do you know if there's going to be an issue or not unless you do have sex before you're married.

You'd also be hard pressed to find a male at your sorta age that holds the same values. I only know one, and his reason is because of his religious beliefs.

quote:Originally posted by kAtE-:

and how do you know if there's going to be an issue or not unless you do have sex before you're married.



Its called communication! And without it any relationship is doomed.

So, you're never getting married then?

quote:Originally posted by firekitty751:

People have been having sex since before marriage was invented.

Were they doing something wrong?

Don't turn this into a justification for your promisciousness, you whore!

quote:Originally posted by jackketch:

Its called communication! And without it any relationship is doomed.

Well duh, but this topic isn't about couple communication, but premarital sex - therefore thats why I didn't post about it.

Sex is an important part of a relationship IMO and to not have it before committing yourself to a person for life just seems rather odd really.

A lot of couples have issues because of their sexual relationship, espeically when they're older. And even communication can sometimes not be enough - partners having differing opinions and wants as such.

quote:Originally posted by Giomanach:

Forgetting your morals because you think it's a lost cause is as bad as having no morals to begin with.

I didn't read the whole thread.. BUT this post right here plus your first post sound EXACTLY like a friend of mine who just turned 20, when he was 17.

He was a virgin, and had all sorts of weird ideas about sex and shit. Even said that exact line to me when I explained that pretty much it's a lost cause to wait.. and to find a girl that waited too.

He met and AMAZING girl who was far from a virgin when he turned 18.. lost his virginity a couple months later.. and is a complete manslut now.(nothing wrong with man sluts.. I happen to be one)



just pointing out.. you have some really odd ideas on sex(Can't stand the thought of being with a chick who'd had another dick in her?) Come on.. you just sound like you've OVER romantisised sex and everything around it.

quote:Originally posted by socratic:

How can you be morally opposed to premarital sex?

I mean, you can morally opposed to war, or to murder, but premarital sex isn't exactly a moral action.

Personally, I'm pro premarital sex, and I think its stupid to expect or demand otherwise.

Not really, there are alot of negatives to sex and only one positive: Physical gratification. In a purely practical sense premarital sex is pretty fucking stupid.

quote:Originally posted by Garrett:

Not really, there are alot of negatives to sex and only one positive: Physical gratification. In a purely practical sense premarital sex is pretty fucking stupid.

So, by those standards, I can't love someone properly until I have a piece of paper that says so?

Because I sure as hell know that if I love someone, then having sex with them is more then physical gratification.. but also emotional.

Sex, suprisingly has the positive effect of having a child (although some might consider this a negative).

Personally I don't find it to be a problem for a couple to have a child out of wedlock these days either.. nothing wrong with a de facto relationship.

quote:Originally posted by kAtE-:

So, by those standards, I can't love someone properly until I have a piece of paper that says so?



Ya, I must agree with kate; tbe sexy moderator.

What's so special about marrage anyway?

quote:Originally posted by Giomanach:

No, I'm not looking for advice. I'm more looking for a healthy debate. Believe it or not, as a 17-year-old male, I'm morally opposed to premarital sex. I'm not going to have sex before marriage, and I don't think I could marry someone who did. It just wouldn't cross my mind; I can't be with someone who had someone else's schlong inside her but didn't even care about it enough to stay with him, or to make sure he was the right guy beforehand.

What are your thoughts on the subject?

The problem with this idea is that there are many different situations you are not considering here. Why do you automatically assume that any girl who has premarital sex did so without the intention of a long term relationship ?

Shit happens, and people break up. That doesn't mean they hadn't had every hope of longevity.

I think it's awesome that you personally do not want to have sex before you get married, but I think it's awfully narrow-minded of you to expect the same of your future spouse. I mean, what are you going to make them do ? Fill out a questionnaire ? You never know what's going to happen, and limiting the possibilities before they're even presented is foolish.

You may meet the love of your life, and if she's gone and had her cherry popped, what are you going to do ? Kick her to the curb ?

quote:Originally posted by kAtE-:

Well duh, but this topic isn't about couple communication, but premarital sex - therefore thats why I didn't post about it.

Sex is an important part of a relationship IMO and to not have it before committing yourself to a person for life just seems rather odd really.

A lot of couples have issues because of their sexual relationship, espeically when they're older. And even communication can sometimes not be enough - partners having differing opinions and wants as such.



Please don't get me wrong, i'm neither damning pre-marital intercourse (although in an ideal world..) nor am I saying that there isn't a case for 'test driving' before commiting.

What however i do rail against is this notion that pre-marital intercourse is the ONLY sensible option and that people who decide to wait are in some way either, at worst,retarded or at best quaint (not saying you implied that btw).

To my mind its all just another part of the Fem-Nazi mythology that is becoming accepted truth. And THAT worries me.

quote:Originally posted by Ford Prefect:



Fair enough

But even the best of marriages will eventually suffer if the sex drives of the partners are unevenly matched. Often such a situation could be remedied but sometimes not.

But I really don't know. I'm practically sleep-typing.

-F☺rd

Sex drives are almost ALWAYS unevenly matched.

The thing that makes marriage work is love...not the kind you see in the movies, or the infatuation humans seem perpetually addicted to. I'm talking about real love, and that kind of love has nothing to do with sex...at all.

quote:Originally posted by jackketch:

Marriage isn't so much about being with someone in total harmony for life but rather about with whom you want to spend the rest of your life arguing with.

Only someone who has been married a while would resolve himself to this kind of brutal truth.

quote:Originally posted by firekitty751:

People have been having sex since before marriage was invented.

Were they doing something wrong?

You were there ?

It's Botox time for j00 !

quote:Originally posted by kAtE-:

I think its a pretty out dated notion. I think sexual relations with someone you plan to spend the rest of your life with is important, and how do you know if there's going to be an issue or not unless you do have sex before you're married.

Millions of marriages survived before our generation without premarital sex.

quote:You'd also be hard pressed to find a male at your sorta age that holds the same values. I only know one, and his reason is because of his religious beliefs.

Is that the one that you can't get to have sex with you ? Haha...

quote:Originally posted by kAtE-:

Sex is an important part of a relationship IMO and to not have it before committing yourself to a person for life just seems rather odd really.

It is only odd to those who have already had premarital sex.

quote:A lot of couples have issues because of their sexual relationship, espeically when they're older.

Please cite your scientific source for this assertion.

*was hoping Digi would mosey on in*

-have a read of my Ol' Ketch' guide please and tell me why everything i have said is WRONG and even SATANIC please

(you don't need to quote verses, think of your Carpal Tunnel).

Then why invite me ? You know I have a penchant for tangents.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

Then why invite me ? You know I have a penchant for tangerines.

...kinky

:P

quote:Originally posted by Giomanach:

I can't be with someone who had someone else's schlong inside her

Why not? It's sort of like a retroactive cock-sword fight! Arise, Highlander, your hour has cum.

I lol'd

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

Millions of marriages survived before our generation without premarital sex.

Yes, and please note that I did say that it was an OUT DATED notion. Todays society is far far different then to past generations.

quote:Is that the one that you can't get to have sex with you ? Haha... Yes, he stands firmly by his beliefs so meh? I don't care, we're great friends.

quote:It is only odd to those who have already had premarital sex.

[b] And so what? Are you saying that I'm a bad person for thinking like that? Please..



quote:[b]Please cite your scientific source for this assertion.

This is based on people I know in real life, I'm afraid in this forum sometimes you can't go and find a link to pointless data to prove a point.

quote:Originally posted by jackketch:

...kinky

:P

I meant kumquats, of course. *clears her throat*

quote:Yes, and please note that I did say that it was an OUT DATED notion. Todays society is far far different then to past generations.

Repeating a thing doesn't improve it, but for you I will make an exception...

Your assessment that saving ones self for marriage is outdated is supported by your belief that it is useless and somehow impedes happiness, which is reflected in your tone and choice of wording. You seem to be implying that is it PROGRESS that most people do not wait to have sex until they are married. I was simply reminding you that it worked very well for thousands of years, so your assessment is based on nothing more than faulty logic.

quote:Yes, he stands firmly by his beliefs so meh? I don't care, we're great friends.

And yet you relentlessly attack other Christians for standing firm in their beliefs...

I do recall you bragging about how you'd shatter his faith and get him to have sex with you, if it was the last thing you did. You were determined to make sex more important than his spiritual connection to God. I'm proud of him for sticking to his faith, and not throwing it away for someone like you.

You're just a horrible person in many aspects, Kate. That's all there is to it. Don't bag on other people for wanting to save themselves just because you didn't.

quote:And so what? Are you saying that I'm a bad person for thinking like that? Please..

Yes. Don't call other people odd for living their lives differently than you do. You can disagree, but don't paint people out to be strange or out of the ordinary because they value their bodies and want to save them for the person they want to spend the rest of their lives with. Just because you cannot identify with this kind of chastity does not make it "odd". It's far more common than you think.

You're being narrowminded...which I'm pretty sure is the same thing you hate Christians for, eh ?

quote:This is based on people I know in real life, I'm afraid in this forum sometimes you can't go and find a link to pointless data to prove a point.

Data is not pointless. If you are going to spout off you'd better have a means to back up your assertions. Your personal experience does not apply to everyone, but there ARE people who have dedicated their lives to studying marriage and intercourse. There are plenty of studies to choose from. Your limited personal experience is not helpful, nor does it represent the majority of marriages. Your statement was presented in such a fashion as to imply that it was factual, and I can assure you, it's not.

Not only did you fail to specify what sorts of issues you were referring to (the only common issue in marriages regarding sex is the lack of it...men always want more, and women are notoriously disinterested), but you did not feel obligated to prove your claim.

If you're not going to, what good is your advice ? It's just a bunch of conjecture. Basically, it's worthless.

quote:Originally posted by kAtE-:

A lot of couples have issues because of their sexual relationship, espeically when they're older. And even communication can sometimes not be enough - partners having differing opinions and wants as such.



I'd just like to add that wants and needs change as well as physical responses as a person ages. So, having sex with someone now might not be the same as having sex with that same person a couple of decades down the road.

Just something to think about.

Just to add another perspective which I'm sure does nothing for the debate: As a gay male, I am not legally allowed to be married (at least in 49/50 states in this country). Does this mean I should never have sex?

That depends on whether or not you're religious. Heh...the responses will also vary depending upon social and religious beliefs.

quote:Originally posted by oc6:



I'd just like to add that wants and needs change as well as physical responses as a person ages. So, having sex with someone now might not be the same as having sex with that same person a couple of decades down the road.

Just something to think about.

That is such an excellent point. +1

The opinion that one needs to "try the goods" in order to determine compatibility is silly, and representative of a person that has never been in a long term relationship (and by long term I mean longer than 3 years),

People DO change...they are constantly growing, learning, and developing. Even sexual tastes change.

True compatability, as the wise old Ketch has pointed out, is not so much something that can be instantly realized as it is something that must be strived for throughout the course of the relationship.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

, as the wise old Ketch has pointed out,

*strokes his Pak Mei style long white beard *

I think it is absolutely retarded to stay a virgin until you're married. I think it leads to alot of sexually inept Christian couples. We're animals too, and I don't see the point in denying your natural sexual urges, as long as both parties are consenting.

quote:Originally posted by Sick_Boy:

I think it is absolutely retarded to stay a virgin until you're married. I think it leads to alot of sexually inept Christian couples. We're animals too, and I don't see the point in denying your natural sexual urges, as long as both parties are consenting.

I'll have you know that I am a Christian, and I have great sex with my husband.

What an ignorant comment... *shakes head*

^^You might just think it's great sex because you have no basis for comparisn...But I didn't say that all Christian couples are sexually inept, just that the lack of premarital sex probably leads to alot of inept couples.

Edit - infact, I think you're doing your future parnter a favour by practicing a bit before you get together. I don't think that many people are stellar lovers naturally, I think it has to be learned.

[This message has been edited by Sick_Boy (edited 12-13-2006).]

I would, never, ever, ever, ever, have sex with a virgin again.

they get to attached.

I do not want attachment, and as far as my outlook on the whole subject goes right now, I could give a fuck less whether or not I spend the rest of my life with a differant girl every night.

I dont date. I dont have girlfriends, and although I can see the advantage of having one, I have tried before, but I just cannot get attached to one woman.

I am perfectly happy with as many girls as I can get, (I would like to point out now, that I am not a womanizer, and I do not think lowly of the finer sex) because I know and apprieciate what women can do for me.

and for all of you people who will say, "but with a girl friend, you can do all kinds of things!"

well, when I am with a girl, I just say, "hey, lets 69" or something along those lines, and usually, they go for it.

as for aids, and other stds, fuckit, I wear a condom, and if all else fails, then I will get HIV, and go assasinate someone big before I die

quote:Originally posted by Sick_Boy:

^^You might just think it's great sex because you have no basis for comparisn...

I wasn't always a Christian. I had a very healthy sex life before I met my husband.

quote:But I didn't say that all Christian couples are sexually inept, just that the lack of premarital sex probably leads to alot of inept couples.

Which makes no sense, because we all start somewhere, and levels of ineptitude vary by person based on personality, physical prowess, intelligence, and ingenuity.

It is logically fallacious to assume that people who wait until they are married to have sex are somehow doomed to a life of unsatisfying sex.

For the sake of the argument, let's say the scenario you're so generously proposing for the majority of Christendom actually happens...will they know any different ? You pointed this out yourself above. As long as the couple is happy, why does it matter ?

quote:Edit - infact, I think you're doing your future parnter a favour by practicing a bit before you get together. I don't think that many people are stellar lovers naturally, I think it has to be learned.

And yet so many people regret not waiting. You can learn all about sex and how to do it properly by having sex. It is really not all that important if you learn with several different people before you marry, or wait until you are married and learn with your spouse. Learning is learning.

quote:Originally posted by jackketch:

*strokes his Pak Mei style long white beard *

Don't you mean Pai ?

Man, I gotta learn me that 5 point palm exploding heart technique.

Marriage is an institution for people who love institutions...

That said, I believe sex without love is a horrible thing.

I don't see premarital sex as immoral, usually the cause of someone believing this is religion of some sort...but the same religion also states that if she is not a virgin on the wedding night you can stone her to death.

On the moral scales I don't think stoning to death and premarital sex weigh out at the same

I guess my personal view is that whatever, have sex before marriage if you like, wait if you really want to but I don't like the idea of sleeping around with everyone and anyone as if you're some kind of bike being ridden by everyone.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

I'll have you know that I am a Christian, and I have great sex with my husband.

What an ignorant comment... *shakes head*

Really because I do remember you saying one of the last times I talk to you that you hardly get any from your husband.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

And yet you relentlessly attack other Christians for standing firm in their beliefs...

I do recall you bragging about how you'd shatter his faith and get him to have sex with you, if it was the last thing you did. You were determined to make sex more important than his spiritual connection to God. I'm proud of him for sticking to his faith, and not throwing it away for someone like you.

You're just a horrible person in many aspects, Kate. That's all there is to it. Don't bag on other people for wanting to save themselves just because you didn't.





Wow then someone didn't take a joke! I bragged about it in a joking way, hell I joked to him about it. I knew that he would never throw away his faith.

Oh and I don't attack every christain I come across, in actual fact you're the only one that really ticks me off.

quote:Yes. Don't call other people odd for living their lives differently than you do. You can disagree, but don't paint people out to be strange or out of the ordinary because they value their bodies and want to save them for the person they want to spend the rest of their lives with. Just because you cannot identify with this kind of chastity does not make it "odd". It's far more common than you think.

You're being narrowminded...which I'm pretty sure is the same thing you hate Christians for, eh ?

I think you're reading into the word odd too much.. and I think you're taking my post slightly more seriously then intended! I never said that people SHOULDN'T do it, its just not something I consider to be the norm amoung the people that I know and care about. Don't make me out to sound like some sort of whore either for having premartial sex.

quote:Data is not pointless. If you are going to spout off you'd better have a means to back up your assertions. Your personal experience does not apply to everyone, but there ARE people who have dedicated their lives to studying marriage and intercourse. There are plenty of studies to choose from. Your limited personal experience is not helpful, nor does it represent the majority of marriages. Your statement was presented in such a fashion as to imply that it was factual, and I can assure you, it's not.

Not only did you fail to specify what sorts of issues you were referring to (the only common issue in marriages regarding sex is the lack of it...men always want more, and women are notoriously disinterested), but you did not feel obligated to prove your claim.

If you're not going to, what good is your advice ? It's just a bunch of conjecture. Basically, it's worthless.

You aren't in My God now. Please, hardly ANYONE sites references in here, my post was short and quick, I do not have time to go searching through the web for information that backs up my personal experiences in real life. I don't have to reference all my opinions and I'm sure most people in this forum don't expect me to.

If that's your pathetic arguement then I'm sure you can go through most threads in this forum and pull up people for giving their PERSONAL OPINION AND PERSONAL EXPERIENCES - and for not giving some bullshit link to some data.

I agree with you.

quote:Originally posted by SilentMind:

You're a sinner, and you'll burn in hell for your filthy thoughts!

Self-PWNT! OMG! LOL!

This is one of those things that is a matter of perspective and therefore can not be explained to someone else because even if you did, they wouldn't see it your way.

So either way that is chosen, it works. You aren't a harlot in scarlet if you had sex outside of marriage. People who have sex without a emotional connection of some sort have bigger problems then just their sexuality.

Does having multiple partners lessen the value of the act? Not really. It depends on the reasons behind the act more then the method in which the act is performed.

A relationship won't have arrested sexual development because of both people having abstained from pre-marital sex. Both people are starting from a blank slate and writing the formula as they go along.

For that matter, who wasn't a little "sexually inept" the first time?

It is always nice to see people on totse debating without getting involved in personal attacks on each other.

Not opposed to all, opposed to most random/friend;y/wtf sex.

I'm 17 and a virgin, and I've no will to prick some random girl I find. I'd quite rather have my first sex with someone I care about deeply and legitimatly. They always say for big things or pseudo-big things that you'll remember your first time.. I remember my first time driving, smoking pot, hell - first time I was early for school- I'd rather look back much later in my life and think I slept with someone I'd loved, as opposed to someone I found just attractive or nice in some or multiple ways. You can have the "perfect" person and still not love them, or even care about them. I'm keeping it in my pants no matter what, untill I find a person I'll enjoy the moment with for the rest of my life.

quote:Originally posted by Rizzo in a box:

Marriage is an institution for people who love institutions...

That said, I believe sex without love is a horrible thing.

Hunter S. Thompson put it this way:

Sex without love is as hollow and ridiculous as love without sex.

-F☺rd

quote:Originally posted by kAtE-:

Really because I do remember you saying one of the last times I talk to you that you hardly get any from your husband.

It comes and goes in spurts. We have kids, jobs, school, etc. It is difficult to find the energy sometimes.

But when we DO have the time, it's great.

Now, back under the rock from whence you came !

quote:Originally posted by kAtE-:

You aren't in My God now. Please, hardly ANYONE sites references in here, my post was short and quick, I do not have time to go searching through the web for information that backs up my personal experiences in real life. I don't have to reference all my opinions and I'm sure most people in this forum don't expect me to.

If that's your pathetic arguement then I'm sure you can go through most threads in this forum and pull up people for giving their PERSONAL OPINION AND PERSONAL EXPERIENCES - and for not giving some bullshit link to some data.



Since you didn't say anything of remote interest or intelligence, I shall refrain from wasting any time responding to your rhetoric.

It would just be nice if you weren't such a bitch to people when they don't deserve it. It's unnecessary.

[This message has been edited by Digital_Savior (edited 12-14-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:



It would just be nice if you weren't such a bitch to people when they don't deserve it. It's unnecessary.



Maybe you should take some of your own advice.

And what is it your business how I speak to others? YOU came in HERE and decided to attack ME. Not the other way around.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

It comes and goes in spurts. We have kids, jobs, school, etc. It is difficult to find the energy sometimes.

But when we DO have the time, it's great.

Now, back under the rock from whence you came !



Trust me on this...it gets WORSE the older the kids get.

Finding time for even a quick 2 minute knee-trembler over the dish washer needs almost military planning.

And a long slow afternoon fuck and fall asleep in each others arms? NOT A CHANCE!

And because god has a nasty sense of humour, the time you do send the kids to your mom's and pull the plug on the phone then either some friend will come round and NEED your help, the dog will suddenly vomit blood or nuclear Armageddon will strike.

quote:Originally posted by kAtE-:

Maybe you should take some of your own advice.

You deserved it. Trust me.

quote:And what is it your business how I speak to others? YOU came in HERE and decided to attack ME. Not the other way around.

Because you were attacking others. It's not coincidental that I haven't felt it necessary to respond the same way to other people here...they just aren't being assholes, like you are.

quote:Originally posted by jackketch:



Trust me on this...it gets WORSE the older the kids get.

I fully intend on sending my kids off to 4H camp every summer...or something equivalent. THEY WILL BE GONE.

quote:Finding time for even a quick 2 minute knee-trembler over the dish washer needs almost military planning.

haha !

quote:And a long slow afternoon fuck and fall asleep in each others arms? NOT A CHANCE!

And because god has a nasty sense of humour, the time you do send the kids to your mom's and pull the plug on the phone then either some friend will come round and NEED your help, the dog will suddenly vomit blood or nuclear Armageddon will strike.

Very recently, the kids were down for the night and we actually felt like having sex at the same time (which is actually more difficult than it sounds)...and wouldn't ya know, halfway through it, one of the kids started crying. Mind you, they almost NEVER cry. It was unbelievable.

We just looked at each other, and kept on goin'.

P.S. Our son was fine...he quieted down after a few minutes on his own.

as a result of your choice, you'll avoid a lot of the troubles you see posted on this forum. that doesn't mean there won't be alternate problems that will pop up, though. what's good is that you seem firm in your belief and willing to act on it rather than let it sit. it's important for people to understand what they feel comfortable with and act accordingly. however, i will say that the old age precedent of couples waiting until marriage is especially hard to uphold these days due to the duration of education, and as a result, the later age of marriage. people don't finish college until the age of 21, and many go on to grad school. people usually want to attain financial stability and independence before marrying. these factors delay marriage and decrease its chances of occurring. therefore, while tradition may sometimes hold that people wait until marriage to have sex, in this day and age that is often an unreasonable standard to hold people to.

This is where society is failing. Did you people ever think of what we could accomplish if we just forgot about who we are going to be rubbing body parts with next? I know it's part of our body chemistry, but it is possible to rise above our animal urges and be something more.

That being said, you have to remember that back when pre-marital sex was a no-no people were generally married by the time they were 17. Easier to resist 2 years than 12.

One thing i've noticed is that women are generally far more in support of pre-marital sex than men. Apart of our natures i suppose: Men to have women remain true to them, women to sleep with every walking sack of meat capable of making white goo shoot out his pee-pee.

There is no right answer, however people who are for pre-marial sex aren't in it for any reason beyond the fact they want to be able to get their rocks off and that is a reason i don't respect, so im throwing my opinion into the "wait till you're married" corner.

quote:Originally posted by Garrett:



One thing i've noticed is that women are generally far more in support of pre-marital sex than men. Apart of our natures i suppose: Men to have women remain true to them, women to sleep with every walking sack of meat capable of making white goo shoot out his pee-pee.



Pardon me?

I almost think thats the other way around - hell men love to fuck anything with a pair of tits half the time.

But I believe no gender is 'worse' then the other. So really, this is just your women hating bullshit starting up again.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

Sex drives are almost ALWAYS unevenly matched.

The thing that makes marriage work is love...not the kind you see in the movies, or the infatuation humans seem perpetually addicted to. I'm talking about real love, and that kind of love has nothing to do with sex...at all.

How can a woman's love for her husband have nothing to do with sex?? I love my husband more than anything and part of my love for him involves how turned on he gets me. If I didn't love him, I would probably not still be so attracted to him.

Saying that "real" love has nothing to do with sex is dumb and narrowminded.

Gio is actually a reforming child molester and the #2 man in HB.

quote:Originally posted by Sick_Boy:

I think it is absolutely retarded to stay a virgin until you're married. I think it leads to alot of sexually inept Christian couples. We're animals too, and I don't see the point in denying your natural sexual urges, as long as both parties are consenting.

I mean do you try to be ignorant? Is it a trait that you can't get rid of? There is no telling that Christian couples don't have great sex. You do not have to fuck around before marriage to learn how to enjoy yourself sexually.

God you are retarded, and the sex is great as long as the person feels it is great. Just because they don't sleep around like you, don't try and belittle their sex lives with your ignorant comments.

Jesus you are stupid.

quote:Originally posted by Giomanach:

No, I'm not looking for advice. I'm more looking for a healthy debate. Believe it or not, as a 17-year-old male, I'm morally opposed to premarital sex. I'm not going to have sex before marriage, and I don't think I could marry someone who did. It just wouldn't cross my mind; I can't be with someone who had someone else's schlong inside her but didn't even care about it enough to stay with him, or to make sure he was the right guy beforehand.

What are your thoughts on the subject?

It sounds like your points have their roots in Christian teachings. I was taught the same things in school. There is nothing wrong with opposing premarital sex. It can keep you out of a lot of trouble, you shouldn't judge a girl based on what she has done in the past. Despite some Christian beliefs sex is still an act like anything else. People make mistakes. The fact that you would shun her based on the lone fact that a guy’s penis was inside her is childish. Especially since the main doctrine of Christianity is forgiveness. Jesus forgave Marry Magdalene, who I am sure had many different penises inside of her.

quote:Originally posted by projectCV:

. Jesus forgave Marry Magdalene, who I am sure had many different penises inside of her.

Except she was never a whore. Or rather there is no evidence for that particular smear by the Church.

She was however probably insane.

quote:Originally posted by jackketch:

Except she was never a whore. Or rather there is no evidence for that particular smear by the Church.

She was however probably insane.

I would tend to agree with you. I am just repeating what I was taught as a kid. I hate how the story of Mary can bring a congregation to tears, but when a single mom shows up for church she is driven away.

Spelling Fixed

[This message has been edited by projectCV (edited 12-14-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by CarbonB:

I mean do you try to be ignorant? Is it a trait that you can't get rid of? There is no telling that Christian couples don't have great sex. You do not have to fuck around before marriage to learn how to enjoy yourself sexually.

God you are retarded, and the sex is great as long as the person feels it is great. Just because they don't sleep around like you, don't try and belittle their sex lives with your ignorant comments.

Jesus you are stupid.



I think you're right in saying that a person's sex life is as good as they feel it is. A person could look in from the outside and say, "Damn that person has boring sex!" But it doesn't matter what other people think. Also...What is sexually inept anyway? Even the most inexperienced person can learn how to have awesome sex. I mean, I've been sleeping with my husband for over 9 years now and we still learn new things about each others bodies or dream up new tricks to try.

That being said, I don't support or not support pre-marital sex. I honestly just have no opinion on the subject other than that people should just do what they feel is right...Not what the church or society tells them is right.

quote:Originally posted by Xiao Mei:

How can a woman's love for her husband have nothing to do with sex?? I love my husband more than anything and part of my love for him involves how turned on he gets me. If I didn't love him, I would probably not still be so attracted to him.

Saying that "real" love has nothing to do with sex is dumb and narrowminded.

Perhaps this would be better asked of a wife of a paraplegic.

See Mrs. Superman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Reeve), for a great example. She loved him and stood by him, long after his pen0r was broken. Now THAT is true love.

i love premarital sex because i love sex.

but to each their own, though i do think it's a little unfair to assume that she didn't care enough to stay with the guy or make sure he was the right one. first times aren't always cut and dried black and white. look at all the threads on here with guys alone saying "fuck, i wish i hadn't." sometimes it just happens, so i think your statement is a little judgemental.

Anyways, I'm not opposed to or in support of pre-marital sex. Why not let nature and our instincts guide us? If the girl has no qualms about it, and we both feel ready, then I don't see why we shouldn't give it a shot.

[This message has been edited by met_B_A_N_S (edited 01-07-2007).]

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

Perhaps this would be better asked of a wife of a paraplegic.

See Mrs. Superman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Reeve), for a great example. She loved him and stood by him, long after his pen0r was broken. Now THAT is true love.

Well that was an unusual and very unfortunate circumstance...If my husband became crippled in some way of COURSE I would still love him.

However, I think that example is way outside of the norm. I think a more important question to ask about "Mrs. Superman" is would she have still married him if he'd been a quadroplegic when they first met?

quote:Originally posted by Giomanach:

I'm not going to have sex before marriage, and I don't think I could marry someone who did.

At least you're gonna be 100% sure nobody gives you the fucking A.I.D.S !!!!

quote:Originally posted by CarbonB:

It is a noble idea to say no premarital sex. However in this day and age you would be very hard pressed to find a girl who is a virgin around your age.

Even in culturals where the husband can kill the wife if she isn't a virgin still have sex before marriage. Girls are going to do what they want, there is probably like 5% of girls out there that don't. So have fun trying to find one, or for that matter an honest girl.

QUOTED FOR MOTHERFUCKING TRUTH!!!

quote:Originally posted by jackketch:

Sexual compatible? You mean your penis doesn't work or her 'gine is in the wrong way round??!

Believe it or not but you are sexually compatible with every single female on the planet...assuming your dick is 'normal'.

Talk about testing sexually compatibly before marriage is crap.

And learning to 'fit' is the whole point of marriage.

I'm Windows and she is Mac.

quote:Originally posted by socratic:

How can you be morally opposed to premarital sex?

I mean, you can morally opposed to war, or to murder, but premarital sex isn't exactly a moral action.

Personally, I'm pro premarital sex, and I think its stupid to expect or demand otherwise.

It's a concious decision (in most cases) and he isn't comfortable with the though. Thats how he can be opposed to it.

To each their own, mate. I'm not against premarital sex. I think that sex is wonderful, if it's done with someone you honestly care for. I believe you need to have a deep mental connection, before you have such a close physical relationship.

Hmm this is an interesting thread. For me at least.

I recently lost my virginity to a 16 year old who wasn't a virgin. I'm 20. The age isn't really important, but goddamnit do I have issues with all this shit. If I could do it, I'd take my virginity back and keep going with our relationship without sex, if she could handle it that is.

But yeah, every time I think about the fact that she's had sex with her douche of an ex, I wanna kill myself. Seriously it ticks me off like nothing else ever has done.

I know it's completely unfair, but at times I can just hate her for having done it. I'd give anything to be able to forgive and forget and just have sex like all other couples. I don't really talk to her about it anymore, cos I don't wanna make her sad and I don't want our relationship to go that way again but... It's really killing me on the inside.

Every time she says anything that I somehow manage to associate with her former sexlife, I wanna puke. Like if she says "oh it's way better when someone else fingers me." I think oh you mean me or your ex. If she says "It's really scary how loud my moans can get, you have no idea..." I think oh right so only your ex has heard those. Someone on tv said 69 is a stupidass position and she said nah-uh. And I thought dude we never do that position and then I think oh right she's done it with her ex a lot probably.

Argh... Is there any way to change my distorted view on these things? I just wanna forget it, I'm tired of supressing it but having it show it's ugly head in the most annoying situations.

marriage is an outdated institution, the 30% divorce rate testament to this fact.

why gays would ever want to join in all the fun is beyond me; its personally not an issue. i can love someone without the state telling me it is legitimate, and i dont need a ring to show off my commitment.

thus, i think your 'anti-premarital' sex notion is absolutly ridiculous (you're all fucking pansies). getting to know someone sexually is (more than) half the fun of being in a relationship. do you intend to hold hands and stare dreamily into eachother's eyes for a couple years until you declare that you are ready to get married? booooring, and so constrained, inhibited. how can you love someone you have inhibitions with?

ergh i cant argue this, you're probably a religious nut.

If my significant other at the time believes in waiting then I won't disrespect that.

quote:Originally posted by B-Phaze:

Hmm this is an interesting thread. For me at least.

I recently lost my virginity to a 16 year old who wasn't a virgin. I'm 20. The age isn't really important, but goddamnit do I have issues with all this shit. If I could do it, I'd take my virginity back and keep going with our relationship without sex, if she could handle it that is.

But yeah, every time I think about the fact that she's had sex with her douche of an ex, I wanna kill myself. Seriously it ticks me off like nothing else ever has done.

I know it's completely unfair, but at times I can just hate her for having done it. I'd give anything to be able to forgive and forget and just have sex like all other couples. I don't really talk to her about it anymore, cos I don't wanna make her sad and I don't want our relationship to go that way again but... It's really killing me on the inside.

Every time she says anything that I somehow manage to associate with her former sexlife, I wanna puke. Like if she says "oh it's way better when someone else fingers me." I think oh you mean me or your ex. If she says "It's really scary how loud my moans can get, you have no idea..." I think oh right so only your ex has heard those. Someone on tv said 69 is a stupidass position and she said nah-uh. And I thought dude we never do that position and then I think oh right she's done it with her ex a lot probably.

Argh... Is there any way to change my distorted view on these things? I just wanna forget it, I'm tired of supressing it but having it show it's ugly head in the most annoying situations.

you're a creeper. it is her body, she is justified in using it any way she chooses. just because she chooses (perhaps wrongly) to be with you does NOT mean you are in control of her life and can in any way 'disapprove' of her past actions. i suggest you get over yourself and be happy she's willing to put up with you

Hmm. I like premarital sex, and I don't believe in God...so I'm ok then, right?

quote:Digital_Saviour: don't paint people out to be strange or out of the ordinary because they value their bodies and want to save them for the person they want to spend the rest of their lives with.

Too bad not all relationships lead to love or marriage, and too bad not all marriages last entire lifespans.

Marriage isn't some profound, amazing overwhelming union that forms the very culmination of one's life. Nor is it eternal, nor is it founded on love 100% of the time. If that were true, divorce wouldn't occur.

Men who won't form relationships with non-virgins are shallow, I don't see why not being a virgin would detract from one's marriage.

Marriage is in essence just an agreement to be with someone, just like the agreement to be in a relationship. The major difference is that in marriage sanctioned by either the government or a religious group.

I don't think the government should be involved with people's sex lives (not pertaining to children. Government involvement with children is a different issue). I personally also don't believe a religious group should be involved with a couple's sex life.

The only people who really matter are those physically involved. If they both consent, why wait for it to be validated by some group of people?