OK the other night after a night of heavy drinking I found myself with some older friends of mine (Me being 20 them being 25+).

Anyhow the main friend of mine from that particular group is with a 17 going on 18 year old girl.

She was so drunken she was staggering all around the place and walking the wrong way. All the boyfriend was doing was he was telling her to stop being a fuckhead and to hurry up and I told her to come here and I'ld carry her but her bf wouldn't let me, and he wasn't offering to help her himself.

The whole walk home, the entire 3 or 4 street blocks, she was saying he was stupid "you're stupid" and his other friend was saying how sorry he felt for him.

At one point she was staggering down stairs wearing heels and I was walking below her to catch her if she fell and because I was walking below her he was bitching saying I was trying to look up her dress she was wearing shorts.



Long story short I felt I was looking after her, whilst the one person that really should have been seemingly didn't give a shit about her. If this girl was single I'd go for her in an instant but she is off limits because she is spoken for, and especially off limits because the guy is a friend of mine. I don't know how their relationship is going but going of this incident it appears very shakey...should I let the whole thing run it's course or hang out with her encouraging her to see what she could be happy with?

Personally I think the differences in their ages is the problem, she wants to be having fun while he is a ball and chain

I'm not saying this all to justify any desires I might have in being with her, or to convince myself trying to break them up is ok and I know my "I'm a jealous guy" thread does me no justice trying to explain this to you but yeah what would you suggest happens here?

Sorry this was long.

If you want any additional info to make a more informed response ask me.





[This message has been edited by Trousersnake (edited 11-27-2006).]

I'de say he was kicking back because his bitch was looking after his woman all night long. Let her break her fool neck next time.

I'd say you were doing the right thing by being a righteous person. Continue doing this and good things will happen. It's not about being a "bitch", it's about loving and caring about people besides yourself.

I approve. A lot.

quote:Originally posted by Rizzo in a box:

I'd say you were doing the right thing by being a righteous person. Continue doing this and good things will happen.

Fortune cookies are fun but not good sources of advice

quote:Originally posted by Garrett:

Fortune cookies are fun but not good sources of advice

What are you trying to say? That what I've said is not sound advice? Would you like to elaborate?

If it was him not being watched out for by her in a reversed situation I'd take care of him too.

Friends are friends and that's what both of them are to me.

But that's why I feel guilty, but then the flipside is thinking they'd be more happy as just friends.

quote:Originally posted by Trousersnake:

If it was him not being watched out for by her in a reversed situation I'd take care of him too.

Friends are friends and that's what both of them are to me.

But that's why I feel guilty, but then the flipside is thinking they'd be more happy as just friends.

Well, what exactly are you asking? What can you do to maximize the girl's happiness?

She's old enough to know better. Maybe the reason she's with him is because he doesn't wrap her in cotton wool.

Seen how i am the kind of man who sleeps with females even if they are with a mate... my advice might not be the best.

But keep bein the nice guy. It got me laid in a very similair situation

quote:Originally posted by Rizzo in a box:

Well, what exactly are you asking? What can you do to maximize the girl's happiness?

Haha well I do fancy her

And what I was/am asking is should I try to have them split by just being me around her showing her the 'maximised happiness' she could be experiencing...Thinking about it if she's into him I could still do this without her considering being with someone else.

Not to put down my friend but what I think I can offer her is

- More stable partner (current bf has no job or real responsibilities and is 25+)

- Someone that is closer to her age with more shared interests

- Someone that will give a rats ass whether she gets home safe or not

quote:Originally posted by Trousersnake:

Not to put down my friend but what I think I can offer her is

- More stable partner (current bf has no job or real responsibilities and is 25+)

- Someone that is closer to her age with more shared interests

- Someone that will give a rats ass whether she gets home safe or not

But she doesn't want those things. She wants an older male to validate her maturity. This would explain why she drank so much as to require your assistance all night. She's cool, she's old, she's mature, she can handle herself, she can drink you all under the table.

riiiigghht

If it is possible, and you believe your friend will listen to you, the best course of action would be to have a talk to him about it.

If you do not believe that is possible, the best course of action would be to bring it up with another friend of his that he will listen to, and who will listen to you.

I agree with your take of the situation, which is that there is something terminally wrong with their relationship at this present time.

quote:Originally posted by CatharticWeek:



Maybe the reason she's with him is because he doesn't wrap her in cotton wool.

I'm not 100% sure, but I wouldn't consider being watchful over someone that is walking in heeled shoes, in a drunken state, down a flight of stairs to be wrapping them in cotton wool, but rather making sure they don't cripple themselves especially when it's someone you care about.

Would you rescue a family member out of a burning car if they had been speeding? Or is it a consequence of doing such an activity and they brought it on themselves...

quote:Originally posted by Trousersnake:

Haha well I do fancy her

And what I was/am asking is should I try to have them split by just being me around her showing her the 'maximised happiness' she could be experiencing...Thinking about it if she's into him I could still do this without her considering being with someone else.

Not to put down my friend but what I think I can offer her is

- More stable partner (current bf has no job or real responsibilities and is 25+)

- Someone that is closer to her age with more shared interests

- Someone that will give a rats ass whether she gets home safe or not

Well, let me try to tackle this, but before I do that let me preface my answer. I know that the advice I give you is not the advice you seek, however it can be the advice that will allow to show yourself the answer. I can't tell you what to do, and no one here can either, I can however tell you what I would do and you can then relate this to yourself. This may seem very basic, elementary stuff, but the simplest things are often the most important and over looked...

First, you must have complete honesty with yourself: carefully think about the things you do. Which do you do for yourself, and which do you do for her? I'm sure the two will over lap, but just thinking about this will shed some clarity.

The way I see it, you want her for two reasons; to make yourself happy, and to make her happy. The order in which you tackle these reasons will determine the overall happiness of everyone. If you can achieve happiness for yourself by making her happy, then I think you will be satisfied.

Eventually she will see that you are the one that truly makes her happy. If she wants to be in a relationship to be with someone that will make her happy, then you two will fall into a relationship with eachother. If she wants to be in a relationship for other reasons, she will not; and truly, if she does not want to be in a relationship for the same reasons you do, it would be best not to do it.

So what I said earlier still rings true: be the best person you can be. I would also suggest not limiting that to just her, but since this is Sex and Affection and not The Universe, that is hardly on topic.

[This message has been edited by Rizzo in a box (edited 11-27-2006).]

I do not agree with some here who advocate splitting them up for your own gain. They are not considering the backfire, which could be devastating.

quote:Originally posted by I_Like_Traffic_Lights:

But she doesn't want those things. She wants an older male to validate her maturity. This would explain why she drank so much as to require your assistance all night. She's cool, she's old, she's mature, she can handle herself, she can drink you all under the table.

You're all over the place there. Was that implying that I am? It's too late to figure these things out myself.

quote:Originally posted by I_Like_Traffic_Lights:

She wants an older male to validate her maturity.

I'd have thought a 20 year old going on 21 would be mature enough for a 17 year old going on 18.

And as for drinking too much you could put all sorts of slants on it

e.g.

1. Wanting an excuse to hook up with someone else "I was drunk"

2. Escaping the reality of a bad relationship she is in

See what I did there?

And as for the assistance...do you think she would have gotten any if I wasn't around? I wasn't there the whole night so she never knew I'd be around or that I would look out for her.

quote:Originally posted by stab:

I do not agree with some here who advocate splitting them up for your own gain. They are not considering the backfire, which could be devastating.

I agree, but I also think that if I'm just being myself around her and she falls for me that it wouldn't have happened if she was otherwise happy and I didn't actually do anything but be myself.

quote:Originally posted by CatharticWeek:



She's old enough to know better. Maybe the reason she's with him is because he doesn't wrap her in cotton wool.

QFT!

Ever been to one of those parties where a cool guy gets drunk and starts to puke, then a fat chick comes along and plays nurse to him all night long? See how pathetic she looked? Well trying to be the super protective bodyguard man is the gender-reversed equivelent of what the fat bitch did.

Why would you want to get with a stupid cunt bitch who totters around in high heels and spits at everyone who tries to help her?

She sounds like a right immature pathetic cunt.



Next time, do the world a favour and let her fall to her death in her high heals and break her fucking neck.

quote:Originally posted by yoyobek:

Why would you want to get with a stupid cunt bitch who totters around in high heels and spits at everyone who tries to help her?

She sounds like a right immature pathetic cunt.



Next time, do the world a favour and let her fall to her death in her high heals and break her fucking neck.

Because you're a perfect human being who has no faults, right?

The next time you make a mistake, I want you to imagine someone advocating your death because of it.

I mean really, she's only 17. Still a child. Why do you expect her to be mature? Does she really deserve to die just because she is looking for acceptance?

[This message has been edited by Rizzo in a box (edited 11-27-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by Trousersnake:

I agree, but I also think that if I'm just being myself around her and she falls for me that it wouldn't have happened if she was otherwise happy and I didn't actually do anything but be myself.

A passive-aggressive approach.

You're internalizing a great deal here, bucko.

The main point of my post was that she lacks maturity which is evidenced by her behavior. She wishes, however, to display to the world that she is, in fact, mature, but, lacking maturity, she has immature ways of doing this.

This may sound circular, because it is. It's difficult to describe illogical people in logical terms. Especially when you're tired.

As for the 20 being mature for a 17 year old, you're right, and, what's more, you're seemingly more mature than her mate, right? But, again, we're dealing with an illogical person so she sees you as kind and interprets kindness as weakness; weakness with boys; boys with immaturity. Therefore: to her kindness equals immaturity. She doesn't want that, because, again, to her, she is who she is attached too.

It works the other way too.

The older male wishes to still bein his youth so he attaches himself to someone who is actually young. This is displayed in his lack of employment, lack of responsibilities; he doesn't want to grow up, and believes he has found a fountain of youth in this girl since she doesn't have the same ambitions of girls his age who constantly remind him how immature he is.

It's a picture perfect example of a common experienced phenomena. If it were a condition a picture of this scenario would be in the text book.

But I could be wrong. These two, and you included, may be a unique case with completely differing motives, and outcomes. But I doubt it.

And as for the assistance...the point wasn't in the amount of assistance she received, but, instead, the amount of assistance she required. It was a statement about the level of intoxication not the assistance.

quote:Originally posted by I_Like_Traffic_Lights:

The main point of my post was that she lacks maturity which is evidenced by her behavior. She wishes, however, to display to the world that she is, in fact, mature, but, lacking maturity, she has immature ways of doing this.

What exactly is your definition of mature? Physically mature could mean past 15 or into your late 90's. Mentally mature could mean no longer laughs out loud when people fart, or it could mean has the wisdom of yoda.

You are drawing alot about this woman from the fact that she allowed herself to get intoxicated. Im sure the most mature people you know have done stupid things.

quote:Originally posted by Garrett:

What exactly is your definition of mature? Physically mature could mean past 15 or into your late 90's. Mentally mature could mean no longer laughs out loud when people fart, or it could mean has the wisdom of yoda.

You are drawing alot about this woman from the fact that she allowed herself to get intoxicated. Im sure the most mature people you know have done stupid things.

Maturity is presence of mind, self-awareness, other aware-ness, and at its most extreme height, all-awareness.

quote:Originally posted by Trousersnake:



Would you rescue a family member out of a burning car if they had been speeding? Or is it a consequence of doing such an activity and they brought it on themselves...

I wouldn't stick my penis in them.

Mehhh I dunno what to say besides this - I helped her enough to safely get down some stairs and across streets. Her bf didn't seem to care about her.

I don't like overprotective behaviour myself and I don't consider what I did to be that.

If I had a sister no matter if she was 11, 18, or 38 and she was in the same situation I'd assist her, because I'd care about her wellbeing much the same as I do for this particular girl (And in reality any human being...you see it in things like superhero shows where the good guy saves the bad guys life even though they have differences, If I was in trouble I'd want help to...but this is irrelevant to this)

I was also drunk at the time of all this but with it enough to not let anything happen to those that couldn't really look after themselves (her).

None of this was premeditated and it just happened.

quote:Originally posted by CatharticWeek:

I wouldn't stick my penis in them.

You need to realize there's a lot more to life than carnal, physical pleasure.

I'm aware of the fact that I'm making broad generalizations (a habit I usually try to avoid) but look at the situation; it's classic.

17/18 girl dating 25+ guy.

17/18 girl gets embarrasingly drunk.

25+ guy doesn't give a shit about her.

17/18 girl says "you're stupid", a brilliant retort along the lines of "you're a doody-head."

25+ guy doesn't give a shit about her.

It's symptomatic of an extremely common coital condition today that I'm going to call sexually symbiotic suppression. A condition where immature youth meets immature adult, one wants to fake maturity, the other wants to fake youth, and through this they develop an unhealthy dual-dependency that neither is pleased with because the goal is impossible to realize.

quote:Originally posted by CatharticWeek:

I wouldn't stick my penis in them.

That was a pretty stupid thing to say especially considering how my scenario refered to your 'wrapped in cotton wool' standpoint.

quote:Originally posted by I_Like_Traffic_Lights:

I'm aware of the fact that I'm making broad generalizations (a habit I usually try to avoid) but look at the situation; it's classic.

17/18 girl dating 25+ guy.

17/18 girl gets embarrasingly drunk.

25+ guy doesn't give a shit about her.

17/18 girl says "you're stupid", a brilliant retort along the lines of "you're a doody-head."

25+ guy doesn't give a shit about her.

It's symptomatic of an extremely common coital condition today that I'm going to call sexually symbiotic suppression. A condition where immature youth meets immature adult, one wants to fake maturity, the other wants to fake youth, and through this they develop an unhealthy dual-dependency that neither is pleased with because the goal is impossible to realize.

An excellent reduction of the situation.

quote:Originally posted by I_Like_Traffic_Lights:

...A condition where immature youth meets immature adult, one wants to fake maturity, the other wants to fake youth

That's why I think I would be a good balance, I don't want to be overly 'mature' nor do I want to be overly 'immature'.

Have you any reasoning why she wouldn't want the best of both worlds?

I believe you missed the point of Carthaic's post.

quote:Originally posted by Trousersnake:

That's why I think I would be a good balance, I don't want to be overly 'mature' nor do I want to be overly 'immature'.

Have you any reasoning why she wouldn't want the best of both worlds?

You are right, and no I don't: except that she's immature.

She's not ready.

I would lay money down that trousersnake is already in the friends zone anyway.

quote:Originally posted by stab:

I believe you missed the point of Carthaic's post.

No, If he had of been right she would have told me to not help her instead of him because I was able to do what he couldn't.

quote:Originally posted by Garrett:

I would lay money down that trousersnake is already in the friends zone anyway.

Meaning she doesn't want me other then a friend?

I don't even know her name...yeah I'm the best of friends with her

He was punishing her for getting so shitfaced.

Fair enough, you don't know their situation, in any case it's a stupid thing to do.

Meanwhile, you're hitting on her. Stop pulling the gentleman shit, you want her, and you wanted this thread to reflect badly on him to fuel your knight in shining armour routine.

You're listing excuses to validate breaking up a couple

That's really shit.

In any case, the 'nice guy' thing doesn't work if you've got ulterior motives.

quote:Originally posted by CatharticWeek:



He was punishing her for getting so shitfaced.

Fair enough, you don't know their situation, in any case it's a stupid thing to do.

Meanwhile, you're hitting on her. Stop pulling the gentleman shit, you want her, and you wanted this thread to reflect badly on him to fuel your knight in shining armour routine.

You're listing excuses to validate breaking up a couple

That's really shit.

In any case, the 'nice guy' thing doesn't work if you've got ulterior motives.

Indeed, which was what I was trying to show with my post...although it seems like it was ignored? Ah well.

quote:Originally posted by CatharticWeek:

...Meanwhile, you're hitting on her. Stop pulling the gentleman shit, you want her, and you wanted this thread to reflect badly on him to fuel your knight in shining armour routine.

You're listing excuses to validate breaking up a couple

That's really shit.

In any case, the 'nice guy' thing doesn't work if you've got ulterior motives.

I'm going to have to pull you up again, I did all this on the night THEN came to realise she'd be cool to be with, so when I was doing all that it wasn't an act.

It's not your fault you're wrong, you've just made assumptions because I didn't think I'd need to mention these things and you didn't care to ask.

quote:Originally posted by Trousersnake:

I'm going to have to pull you up again, I did all this on the night THEN came to realise she'd be cool to be with, so when I was doing all that it wasn't an act.



You're still trying to villify a man to justify breaking up a couple.

Bottom line is wether he's a good partner or not is just a matter of perspective. Guess who's?! Hers!

Stay out of it. I don't think anybody wants to have their relationship subverted.

Anyway. No hard feelings man. I'm got nothing against you. You just asked for opinions. That was mine.

Goodnight! (http://www.dvdrama.com/menus/la_legende_zorro_17.jpg)

[This message has been edited by CatharticWeek (edited 11-27-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by Trousersnake:

I'm going to have to pull you up again, I did all this on the night THEN came to realise she'd be cool to be with, so when I was doing all that it wasn't an act.

We know that. We also know that you've now made a decision based on greed and lust, and are trying to justify it with former actions.

Not to flame, but Trousersnake you come across as niave and inexperienced.

you sound like a pervert. what are you doing trying to get involved in your friends girls. i fucking hate people like this. i hope you get aids.

This thread was cool to read. Rizzo's, Cathartic's, and especially I_L_T_L's posts were pretty interesting. Even Garrett's!

It was nice of you to take care of her, Trousersnake. It's kinda hard to believe you had no ulterior motives at all, but I do believe that you were mainly motivated by a desire to be a good person. I would say to leave them alone, though... her decision to stay or leave has to be her own. Otherwise she'll have learned nothing, and would probably be in the same immature mindset that she was in in the first place.

it doesn't sound like you've "found yourself in a situation." it sounds like you artifically inserted yourself into it. i mean, you obviously have dual motives. you want to "take care" of the girl, but you also want to get with her. it really doesn't sound like you're helping anyone. if anything, it seems you want to take advantage of the vulnerability of many drunk people and an unattentive boyfriend.

what do i suggest happens here? i suggest that if you like her you go after her the non-sketchy way, when she's not drunk.

What lauren said, but don't go calling him your friend.

[This message has been edited by Euda (edited 11-27-2006).]

Trousersnake,

RULE NUMBER 1 - Your mates girl is out of bounds. Never forget rule number 1.

Now, your whinge here suggests to me your the one with the low maturity level, not this girl you are chasing. The days of being someones "knight in shining armour" were over a long time ago (thanks to our hippy parents).

This girl sounds like she is trying to be a spoilt little brat, and your older mate is doing the absolutely best thing he can - ignoring her. She'll either realise she is being silly, or she'll dump him, and move on to someone of her own mentality. It is something she will have to figure out for herself.

Your mate sounds like he has his head screwed on right - as will you in about 5 years time. In the mean time, stop chasing your mates girlfriend - especialy one that much more mature than you. It will not end good for you.

Cheers,

Chump

quote:Originally posted by Trousersnake:

If it was him not being watched out for by her in a reversed situation I'd take care of him too.

Friends are friends and that's what both of them are to me.

But that's why I feel guilty, but then the flipside is that if i look after her more on the side, she will eventually dump her b/f for me

quote:Originally posted by lauren7249:

...it seems you want to take advantage of the vulnerability of many drunk people and an unattentive boyfriend.

what do i suggest happens here? i suggest that if you like her you go after her the non-sketchy way, when she's not drunk.

Well I was drunk, and stoned off my ass, and tired from a long day...I didn't have any active braincells to be thinking anything else except "oh shit she's going to be all fucked up if she takes a spill down those stairs".

And as for what I'm going to do? Nothing. I give this girl less attention then most others, and instead of getting to know her more that can wait until she gets dumped or dumps his ass if I'm still interested in her.

I was never planning on 'stealing' her but rather just being around and seeing what happens.

These responses have been interesting as someone already mentioned. You don't know the guy, the girl or me - so going off images you have in your heads of what you think happened it wasn't a complete waste of time posting.

quote:Originally posted by chumpion:

Trousersnake,



...suggests to me your the one with the low maturity level, not this girl you are chasing...This girl sounds like she is trying to be a spoilt little brat...or she'll dump him, and move on to someone of her own mentality.

You where a bit all over the place there weren't you? - It went from her being more mature then me to dumping him to find someone of her own maturity level (considering you think my deadshit friend is mature suggested she isn't mature).