Lots of things have been going through my head recently, as I know a fair few people in relationships, many of whom are really very different to me in their approach to, well...a lot.

One of the things that really suprised me recently when I heard was a 17/18 year old couple I know (vaguely) going to the Ritz (big expensive hotel in London) together for a meal...at the guys expense of course.

This prompted some debate amongst me and a few people I know, with one girl insisting such "forking out" was imensely romantic, followed by a male contribution that this is "what girls want" and other such stuff, and how even if as a guy you didn't agree it is that amazing a "date" if it sends the girl crazy...it MUST be something fantastic...

Basically, I told them i'd never take a chick to a fucking hotel and blow a few hundred quid on some swanky dinner just to appeal to what is deemed "romantic" in modern society.

In truth, the whole situation just disgusted me, feeling that whole materialistic vibe where guys are in some ways just supposed to "buy" women. One of the main reasons i'm single is I just don't see eye-to-eye with a lot of females I know, and whilst we can be great friends and stuff...I just don't find the emmotional connection there.

Basically all i'm trying to ask is guys, do you really love to live up to the whole "men being into ideas...which includes pleasing women" and "women being into men sacrificing their time/money/whatever" as a form of attraction?

I just can't see the "romance" in expecting to pay for stuff I don't feel I would be truely "sharing" with a partner, surely there's more to a gift than just giving them something that will simply satisfy them materialy in the short term?

Anyhow, i'm getting all bogged down here...

Main issue is teens spending the amount that it would take me a couple of months to accumulate for one evening of pleasing this "girly materialism" that a fair few people I know just seem to accept as a fact?

Just feels...shallow in some ways to me, "buying" the woman in the relationship...

Shouldn't paying for sex be for a brothel, or am I totally missing the point in couples "sharing the moment", with the money being irrelevant?



Sorry about the long and rambling nature of this thread.

quote:Originally posted by Mellow_Fellow:



I just can't see the "romance" in expecting to pay for stuff I don't feel I would be truely "sharing" with a partner, surely there's more to a gift than just giving them something that will simply satisfy them materialy in the short term?





I dont see the romance in that, either.

Thing is, they blow a few hundred quid at the ritz. Why? To pretend they're rich and cool and can live like that every day?

I reckon a meal at a quiet time in McDonalds could be romantic, if you're with the right person.



Dont worry. Not all women demand their men spend huge amounts of money on them, and not all men feel they have to spend stupid amounts of money on a woman just to keep her.

This argument has been done before...and usually it ends up getting me just as pissed off as you are now.

Dating should be mutually enjoyable, and the cost should be split. I need a partner who can share the effort and financial burden in a relationship.

Mellow_Fellow, I agree with you. I grew up with a lot of siblings and single blue-collar income to support us all. To me it's totally out of the question to blow money like that. If a girl wants me to spend money on her like that just so she'll go out with me, then I think she's a whore, in a way. Really, there's no getting around it. That's paying for a woman's company, and to me it's nothing more than prostitution.

If i'm going to be with a girl I want her to want me, not my money. I'll buy dinner or coffee or something once in a while, but I'm putting myself through college with scholarships and loans so I dont have a ton of disposable income. I find that the women I can get tend to be less materialistic because I won't be getting women who care about expensive cars or money, since I don't have either

As far as that date being romantic, honestly I think that kind of date is the least romantic thing you could do. It's completely materialistic and shallow, and it's only appealing to the girl's desire to feel rich and spoiled. Romantic is spending time with the person in an intimate way, sharing a bit of oneself, not one's wallet.

I agree that the sexism in it is stupid. I believe it originally made sense, because men were the primary breadwinners; if you go far enough back, women weren't even allowed to hold any job other than maybe "seamstress". However, that's largely been eliminated now. Theoretically, I'd expect the cost to be split, or maybe for the wealthier partner to pay.

However, it does appeal to my sense of the romantic. I would love to lavish gifts upon Her... not because I feel like it's my job as The Man, but rather because I want her to be happy. But luckily for my rather puny bank account, yoyo's right... she doesn't seem to really care for expensive nothings.

This can go the other way too you know. I didn't grow up in a wealthy family, I've never had a lot of money and for some reason I always end up dating guys who are somehow even poorer than I am. How does this end up for me? I am always the "sugar momma" and always completely fucking broke. Now I really can't stand when people buy things for me, but I agree that relationships need to be equal. I generally just end up feeling taken advantage of when I know I'm going to be the one paying for everything and never having it seem remotely equal. So no, the guy is not always the one having to fork out money for these "girly" expenses.

Hear hear! I have a boyfriend and I always insist on splitting costs 50/50, as that is also how relationships are supposed to work.

quote:Originally posted by kappelpie:

This can go the other way too you know. I didn't grow up in a wealthy family, I've never had a lot of money and for some reason I always end up dating guys who are somehow even poorer than I am. How does this end up for me? I am always the "sugar momma" and always completely fucking broke. Now I really can't stand when people buy things for me, but I agree that relationships need to be equal. I generally just end up feeling taken advantage of when I know I'm going to be the one paying for everything and never having it seem remotely equal. So no, the guy is not always the one having to fork out money for these "girly" expenses.

Then date guys who can support themselves and still go out once in a while. Even though I dont have a ton of cash, I still go out or find things to do.

[This message has been edited by Fanglekai (edited 11-07-2006).]

Oh come on man, fork out $40 for a nice big bottle of vodka to get some pussy. Who cares what you think. It's always been like that and seeing the fucking idiots in charge of the best countries in the world I doubt any of it will be changing anytime soon.

haha you're single.

Yeah, some bitches are like that (note that when I say bitches = All the women I frown upon due to idiotic behaviour, thus, the bad sector of women in this world. Just before yoyobek goes bipolar on me!)

It used to be a standard on romantic relationships that the women is teased around with expensive (of course)details, but as the world moves on, these bitches know that they can take advantage of it.

What would I do? Unless I'm married to that person, or have a pretty long relationship (like more than 6 months, stories tend to end by that time when they get into the "long" fase), there is no fucking way I am taking her out on an expensive dinner.

I'd consider more romantic to call her home and prepare some good dinner, for the two of us, and continue the night at my place. Doesn't necessarely involve sex (heh, why not, lol?), but staying close to the person you suposedly love. But that's me!

It's nice to give gifts to your loved one, but I say: If its not something special, better don't. By saying special I don't mean expensive or rare, I mean appointed towards the relationship. Like, if you notice your girl loves certain stones, you could get her some piece of jewllery tat includes it.

Or imagine she lost something wich was valuable to her (in any way). You could sneak out and get her another similar item. When she rants about how the former was special due to emotional attachment, just brainwash her by stating how even more important is the current one because you love her, and blah blah... RANT

Hypothetical situation:

"Oh, I like diamonds!"

Me:"I got four words for you my dear..."

"YeS?"

Me:"BLOWJOB AND SANDWICH!!. NOW!!"

Got the idea?

quote:Originally posted by Ronin13:

Yeah, some bitches are like that (note that when I say bitches = All the women I frown upon due to idiotic behaviour, thus, the bad sector of women in this world. Just before yoyobek goes bipolar on me!)



Whaa? you mean be happy and talkative and then burst into tears on you?

nah, I'm well medicated atm. You're safe.

Remember that it's not only some women who have this inner whore within them, some guys are like that, too.

I'm completely fucking skint, constantly. I've got a shit job and after rent £400 council tax £80 and all the other crap, I've got nothing.

But it was allways my ex I lavished gifts on.

I bought him a DS when they first came out, when a band he loved came to this city I bought him a band hoodie, and as the band was coming to the city they hiked the prices up to around £58.

I bought him Anime he liked,posters, anything he wanted.

On the rare occaisions we went out, I was allways the one to pay for food.

I'm not saying he was stingy, I'm not pissed because he didnt spend much on me, I'm pissed off that no matter how hard I tried it was never enough.



Now I dont ever want a guy who's going to fling presents at me constantly.

But it would be really nice if once in a while A guy gave me something, even something hand made, just to show he was thinking about me, and that he didnt completely forget about my fucking existence when I wasnt around.

It's bullshit.

If I had a pound for every time I heard a bird talking about how she got some guy to buy her this or that and not spending a penny and still not giving him anything back....

Unfortunately that's the way it goes.

I liked my approach a few years back...

Her - "So are you gonna buy me a drink, darlin'?"

Me - "No...But you can buy me one. Mine's a Guinness. Thanks sweetheart!"

Equal rights...They can start taking us out to dinner and hotels and shit!

Who's with me?!

quote:Originally posted by yoyobek:

Whaa? you mean be happy and talkative and then burst into tears on you?

nah, I'm well medicated atm. You're safe.

Remember that it's not only some women who have this inner whore within them, some guys are like that, too.

I'm completely fucking skint, constantly. I've got a shit job and after rent £400 council tax £80 and all the other crap, I've got nothing.

But it was allways my ex I lavished gifts on.

I bought him a DS when they first came out, when a band he loved came to this city I bought him a band hoodie, and as the band was coming to the city they hiked the prices up to around £58.

I bought him Anime he liked,posters, anything he wanted.

On the rare occaisions we went out, I was allways the one to pay for food.

I'm not saying he was stingy, I'm not pissed because he didnt spend much on me, I'm pissed off that no matter how hard I tried it was never enough.



Now I dont ever want a guy who's going to fling presents at me constantly.

But it would be really nice if once in a while A guy gave me something, even something hand made, just to show he was thinking about me, and that he didnt completely forget about my fucking existence when I wasnt around.



Owned.

quote:Originally posted by yoyobek:

Whaa? you mean be happy and talkative and then burst into tears on you?

nah, I'm well medicated atm. You're safe.

Remember that it's not only some women who have this inner whore within them, some guys are like that, too.

I'm completely fucking skint, constantly. I've got a shit job and after rent £400 council tax £80 and all the other crap, I've got nothing.

But it was allways my ex I lavished gifts on.

I bought him a DS when they first came out, when a band he loved came to this city I bought him a band hoodie, and as the band was coming to the city they hiked the prices up to around £58.

I bought him Anime he liked,posters, anything he wanted.

On the rare occaisions we went out, I was allways the one to pay for food.

I'm not saying he was stingy, I'm not pissed because he didnt spend much on me, I'm pissed off that no matter how hard I tried it was never enough.



Now I dont ever want a guy who's going to fling presents at me constantly.

But it would be really nice if once in a while A guy gave me something, even something hand made, just to show he was thinking about me, and that he didnt completely forget about my fucking existence when I wasnt around.

Lol, I was joking about the bipolar thing, hehe. And yes, some guys are like that, probably they were waaay to spoilt in their childhoods.

It's all in the instincts my friend. Women have an instinctual reaction to men prociding for them. Men instinctually know this, and so will provide to get t3h pussy.

I don't really think that there are any "should's" when it comes to this. Do what you're comfortable doing, why do anything else? Maybe you'll attract women who are like-minded, and most likely you'll repell those who aren't.

Everything should be split as far as I'm concerned. At least in a dating type relationship. I feel extremely awkward when people, especially males buy me things (there's totse males that can vouch for this). I just don't feel I deserve it.

If although, it was her birthday and that's what he chose to do, then yeah maybe? But I'd still feel god damn awful for the amount of money that would have been spent on me, especially if my partner didn't make a lot of money.

I actually quite enjoy paying for a boyfriend a lot. In my last relationship we just kinda feel into a routine of one of us shouting one night, and the other the next - or just spliting the bill.

Other more serious couples have the 'what mine is yours' thing going on, and that works for some people - joint bank accounts and such.

Any person that expect their partner to pay for something is a gold digger (and yeah, they can be male too).

My husband has always paid for everything in our relationship...Even when we were dating. He's very romantic like that, I mean he wanted to take me out for romantic dinners and such.

quote:Originally posted by Xiao Mei:

My husband has always paid for everything in our relationship...Even when we were dating. He's very romantic like that, I mean he wanted to take me out for romantic dinners and such.

This is only acceptable if you give him something in return. Money isn't everything, and loyalty isn't tangible. I hate to say it, but the south has poisoned your mind.

i think that it also depends on what each person wants. if one person's happy to go to mcdonalds and the other wants a fancy restaurant, they can't expect the first to be willing to pay for it. compromise, people, compromise.

as others have mentioned, the idea of the guy paying for everything is rather dated. i make more money than quite a few guys that i've dated, but that's because i have a couple of jobs and i like working that much so i have the money. i don't think that it's appropriate, however, to expect me to pay all the time just because i make more money.

i definitely go for 'i'll pay this time, you pay next time'. works out pretty fairly.