My friend called me the other night, drunk off her ass and crying and telling me her boyfriend had just hit her.

Their history...

Together for 1.5 months

Both have extreme jealousy issues

They've spent nearly every waking moment together

They're both over emotional, and immature

He supposedly put her in a choke-hold, something she was very embarrassed to tell me.

She just cheated on him. I won't justify it, it's wrong, but if a guy treated me like he does her, I'd have dumped his ass a long time ago.

So while she was apologizing and saying the other guy meant nothing - after he asked her to come over and talk to him - he backhanded her. Her lip was twice the size it should have been, and she's barely 5 feet tall. He's quite lean, but when he gets mad... let's see, I slapped him once, and his reaction was to grab my wrist and twist. Over a week ago, and I have a bruise on my arm. He didn't have so much as a red mark.

Now they're back together, and I can't even stand to be in the same room as them. He makes me sick... I mean, we are (were?) quite good friends, but after this recent violence... I'm not sure if I want to be. At the same time, he's so fucking pathetic, I almost feel bad for him.

I did tell her though, if it happens again I won't feel bad for her. There's a fine line between being a victim and a volunteer. Not that she deserves it, but staying with him was a very stupid move on her part.

What do you guys make of this? Opinions on guys that hit their ladyfriends/ladies who stay with these guys?

Man Law #1 Of ToTsE: Don't get into others drama.

Women often forget that we are VERY aggressive creatures, our natural instinct when getting harassed is to physically defend ourselves. Consider this: you're a guy, and an absolutely psychopathic bitch is getting right into your face, screaming at you, calling you every name under the sun. Consider also that she is your SO, and knows you to the extent that she can easily push the right buttons to piss you riight off. She also seems to think that because she is a girl, she is bulletproof, and can say whatever she wants to you, without fear of retaliation. Because she is a girl. Because you're not allowed to hit a girl.

How is this not a form of abuse? Or even torture?

I can see both sides of the coin here.

Domestic violence, bad, yes. But that's a hell of a bomb to drop on someone with an angry disposition.

As for him retaliating to your hit, you have no sympathy from me there.

She wasn't screaming at him.

She was apologizing.

Anyway, I'd like to stay uninvolved, but it's hard to be a good friend and be supportive and whatnot without him being involved. I told her today though, I'm going to have a hard time being a good friend to her if he's always around.

And he's all "God, Jillian, don't hate me, you're one of my best friends and I can't lose you" riiiight.

Does asking half-assed questions at the end really justify using totse as a blog?

quote:Originally posted by firekitty751:

She wasn't screaming at him.

She was apologizing.

Anyway, I'd like to stay uninvolved, but it's hard to be a good friend and be supportive and whatnot without him being involved. I told her today though, I'm going to have a hard time being a good friend to her if he's always around.

And he's all "God, Jillian, don't hate me, you're one of my best friends and I can't lose you" riiiight.

I should probably clarify: i was just ranting, my post had no bearing on your OP.

She hurt him, he hurt her. In his mind, it made sense. Maybe I'm just of this opinion because I'm a small guy and haven't hit ANYONE (had MY ass kicked though), but women crying "OMG ABUSE!" after being hit once (omg a fat lip? I get worse playing Nintendo) AFTER they did something to upset their obviously huge, strong and street-raised man.. is, well.. stupid.

She cheated on him, KNOWING that it would hurt him. Maybe she didn't understand the extent to which he was hurt (I know I don't), but for her to then come crying to you.. wow. How would the story sound if she called you and said (in tears), "I told my boyfriend that I cheated on him and the other guy meant *SOB* nothing, then he made me go over to him and he CALLED ME A WHORE!!!"?

Comparing physical pain to emotional pain is pointless, I know, but she's overreacting and brought it upon herself.

Tell her (and him, if you can) to GET OUT OF THE RELATIONSHIP!

Keep in mind that I don't condone violence of any sort and am very, very bitter at the moment.

<3

Only pimps and French men are allowed to backhand a woman

Anyone else deserves to have his hand broken

quote:Originally posted by firekitty751:

She wasn't screaming at him.

She was apologizing.



Are you sure? If you weren't a witness then her account could be skewed in her favor. After all, you do describe her as being "drunk off her ass".

I wouldn't trust half of what she told me.

Be friendly...but, find new friends.

(btw. I'm of the opinion that if you slapped him, then you're the one who brought violence upon yourself. It doesn't matter if you left a mark or not. I think you're lucky he used restraint.)

The feeling of betrayal for some guys, turns into aggression very very easily, it's almost overwhelming.

But in the end, it comes down to this. She never should've agreed to see him, AFTER talking to him on the phone. This gave him time to think, make him angry, drink some Jackie'o Daniels.

Fuck, where do you find these people? That guy was absolutely not to blame.

This girl has NO life experience whatsoever, fuck.. No offense, but your friend is a dumbass for going over there immediately after.

Edit

And she got back with him, not because she loves him so much, having cheated on him before she was 2 fucking months into the relationship. She got back with him because she knew she fucked up, and he wasn't to blame at all, and ofcourse because she's a dumbass.



[This message has been edited by Aseren (edited 11-06-2006).]

That made me hot.

Seriously it did but I'm into that kinda thing...

When it comes down to it, this isn't a very serious issue. These two are immature and stupid and they've gotta learn from this. Both of them.

quote:Originally posted by firekitty751:

[b]So while she was apologizing and saying the other guy meant nothing - after he asked her to come over and talk to him - he backhanded her. Her lip was twice the size it should have been, and she's barely 5 feet tall. He's quite lean, but when he gets mad...

If a girl cheated on me it wouldn't be the back of my hand she'd be getting. It'd be a fist. My current GF knows this, but it's not an issue because she won't cheat.

I think having a girl he loves cheat is one of the most effective ways to make a man violent. Simple common sense.

quote:Originally posted by firekitty751:

[B]let's see, I slapped him once, and his reaction was to grab my wrist and twist. Over a week ago, and I have a bruise on my arm. He didn't have so much as a red mark.

Don't slap people who are obviously stronger than you?

I don't usually condone hitting women, except for two situations: when a girl cheats on you and when you've been attacked first.



[This message has been edited by rabbitweed (edited 11-06-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by oc6:

Are you sure? If you weren't a witness then her account could be skewed in her favor. After all, you do describe her as being "drunk off her ass".

I wouldn't trust half of what she told me.

Be friendly...but, find new friends.

(btw. I'm of the opinion that if you slapped him, then you're the one who brought violence upon yourself. It doesn't matter if you left a mark or not. I think you're lucky he used restraint.)



Once again OC6 shows that she is a wise as she is beautiful as she is old.

I see this thread turning bad..

Although I don't condone violence. He could have handled it differently, slapping her was wrong - walking out on her and ending the relationship would have been the best course of action.

quote:Originally posted by jackketch:

Once again OC6 shows that she is a wise as she is beautiful as she is old.

She's not old!

quote:Originally posted by jackketch:

Once again OC6 shows that she is a wise as she is beautiful as she is old.



two points!

Stupid bitch deserved it, and more. Everytime a bitch gets slapped we get some sob story that sounds like it was taken out of a lifetime channel movie about the poor innocent woman whose boyfriend got home drunk and took his anger out on her. That's never the case, men are always provoked when they hit a woman, and pushed to the brink by womanly antics (who have more power, because every law favors them).

[This message has been edited by VladimirIllyichLenin (edited 11-06-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by VladimirIllyichLenin:

Everytime a bitch gets slapped we get some sob story that sounds like it was taken out of a lifetime channel movie about the poor innocent woman whose boyfriend got home drunk and took his anger out on her. That's never the case

Pff, true to dat.

quote:Originally posted by VladimirIllyichLenin:

That's never the case, men are always provoked when they hit a woman

I would like to know, what credentials do you have in this field to be able to make such a statement? Are you a cop, social worker, councellor? Or are you some jacked up 14 year old who has no experience with the female gender beyond his mother, born without the ability to think as an individual but with an exceptional talent for being a jerk-in-the-box.

quote:Originally posted by VladimirIllyichLenin:

Stupid bitch deserved it, and more. Everytime a bitch gets slapped we get some sob story that sounds like it was taken out of a lifetime channel movie about the poor innocent woman whose boyfriend got home drunk and took his anger out on her. That's never the case, men are always provoked when they hit a woman, and pushed to the brink by womanly antics (who have more power, because every law favors them).



I'd like to see you grow up in a home that has domestic violence and say that.

Just leave it be.

You're forgettin' to consider, or may be just conveniently overlookin'..

1. She cheated on him. Not only does she have to put up with that, so does he. That's a serious dent to his character and sense of status in the relationship, for a long time I think he probably felt like she was holdin' the cards.. the only way a guy can regain anythin'.. say as a last resort, is to physically attack a girl.



2. He backhanded her, she put up with it. Her emotional state may be 'deluded' like she is just kiddin' herself.. but at times she must think to herself.. why am I still with him? It's probably because she sees somethin' in him that is either really well hidden by his attitude.. or only surfaces when he is with her. Therefore she stays with him, when she believes that it is gone - she will probably leave him.

They will never be friends.

firekitty.. random question..

did you ever live in a room that had painted blue walls..?

quote:Originally posted by VladimirIllyichLenin:

That's never the case, men are always provoked when they hit a woman, and pushed to the brink by womanly antics (who have more power, because every law favors them).



Do you have no experience of real life, or are you just a horrible human being?

quote:Originally posted by stab:

She's not old!

Hey! Enough with the insults!

quote:Originally posted by VladimirIllyichLenin:

That's never the case, men are always provoked when they hit a woman, and pushed to the brink by womanly antics (who have more power, because every law favors them).





quote:Originally posted by fullcircle:



Do you have no experience of real life, or are you just a horrible human being?

It is not always the case, but sometimes it is. It's just...ugly any way you look at it though.

quote:Originally posted by VladimirIllyichLenin:

That's never the case, men are always provoked when they hit a woman, and pushed to the brink by womanly antics (who have more power, because every law favors them).

Yeah... the law favors women because it favored men for hundreds of years. Then people felt bad that they treated women as less than equals, so they gave us more power to make up for that. Kind of like how they give full scholarships to Native Americans. There are laws that favor women and people of certain ethnicities because they realized it was wrong to only favor the white male for so long.

Sorry you weren't born when the laws were different.

quote:Originally posted by kAtE-:

I'd like to see you grow up in a home that has domestic violence and say that.

I can tell you what is worse...growing up in a home where is no 'domestic discipline', cos that's what we're talking about in this case (and i stress 'this case).

I can remember lying there at night sobbing my little 10 year old heart out, praying (and i do mean praying) that my dad would finally belt my mother one.

The hell that woman put us all through..could all have been avoided by one good trip over his knee.

Don't get me wrong, my dad is not only one of the most gentle , kindest men i know, he's also one of the toughest, scariest men i know. Small, hard and comes from the places the Krays came from. But that also means he's Old School East end and would never lay a finger on a woman, even if it was going to cost him his life

I used to work with kids from broken,violent homes. This may surprise you but the ones who came from homes where the mother got the occasional deserved slap were fine. The ones who had the mental scars were those where the mother got the shit kicked out of her every Friday night when their Da came home drunk.

quote:Originally posted by jackketch:

I used to work with kids from broken,violent homes. This may surprise you but the ones who came from homes where the mother got the occasional deserved slap were fine. The ones who had the mental scars were those where the mother got the shit kicked out of her every Friday night when their Da came home drunk.

Yeah but this guy is 18, and he's already slapping his girlfriend for kissing another guy when she was under the impression he cheated on her first. I think FK is just worried if he's doing this at 18 to a girl he's been dating less than two months, will it escalate as he gets older/as they date longer? It has to start somewhere.

I find it very hard to raise my hand to anyone, yet alone a woman. But that might be because I can defend myself without having to hit people (security training, I could break someone's arm, but only after they attempted to hit me).

Flat out, she was wrong to cheat on him, he was wrong to backhand her, and they're both wrong to be in the relationship.

However, what jack said above strikes a chord in me. There are times when a degree of violence may be needed, but even then, I'm iffy on it. It's circumstantial I suppose.

quote:Originally posted by emogan:

Yeah... the law favors women because it favored men for hundreds of years. Then people felt bad that they treated women as less than equals, so they gave us more power to make up for that. Kind of like how they give full scholarships to Native Americans. There are laws that favor women and people of certain ethnicities because they realized it was wrong to only favor the white male for so long.

Sorry you weren't born when the laws were different.

Uh.........do you even know what the fuck the women's civil rights movement was? We didn't GIVE you anything, and women still aren't equals.

kATE what are you talking about? Lots of people grow up in domestic violence situations, and guess what this guy probably did too. She got slapped, she came back the very next day. She deserves everything that she gets.

Are you going to tell a thief that the cops were in the wrong for throwing his ass on the ground when he disobeyed the law? No, you aren't.

She broke the rules, she got hit, her dumbass came back, she gets everything she deserves. She probably even likes the drama that surrounds the anticipation of him hitting her. I bet she feeds off that shit.

I hope he gives her more of what she wants, being beat up.

quote:Originally posted by emogan:

Yeah but this guy is 18, and he's already slapping his girlfriend for kissing another guy when she was under the impression he cheated on her first. I think FK is just worried if he's doing this at 18 to a girl he's been dating less than two months, will it escalate as he gets older/as they date longer? It has to start somewhere.

Sorry, i missed out something from my previous rant. Personally i think this guy was totally in the wrong if it happened the way it was reported.

quote:Originally posted by another pint:

I find it very hard to raise my hand to anyone, yet alone a woman. But that might be because I can defend myself without having to hit people (security training, I could break someone's arm, but only after they attempted to hit me).



yes i used to think that way too...ten years of martial arts training etc etc.

Til some jacked-up-junky-girl tried to julienne my innards with a filleting knife.

If she didn't lose her hand i bet she thinks of me every time the weather changes...

Oh, well if someone wants to use a weapon then I'm going to go all out. I don't care what sex they are. I don't want them in any condition to be able to pick it up again.

lol, that reminds me of the guy who taught me all the stuff I know. He got stabbed on three seperate occasions, every time was by a woman.

Other people have said it already. I can't have very much sympathy for her just because she's a poor defenseless innocent woman. I would not hit my girl for any reason other than being seriously attacked myself, but still - it's not like this was without provocation, and like Zek said a slap isn't exactly traumatic.

I guess overall I'd supposed he's in the wrong, though. But I would twist someone's wrist if they hit me, too. When I get hit I just get incredibly angry and I lose all control.

quote:Originally posted by CarbonB:

Uh.........do you even know what the fuck the women's civil rights movement was? We didn't GIVE you anything, and women still aren't equals.

I didn't mean they were handed to us. But the laws are in our favor partly because people realized it was wrong to base them on a patriarchal society. Please don't base arguments against my posts on one word.

quote:Originally posted by emogan:

I didn't mean they were handed to us. But the laws are in our favor partly because people realized it was wrong to base them on a patriarchal society. Please don't base arguments against my posts on one word.

How does the law favor you?

If it happens again, involve the police. I don't care how upset your friends get over it. It's what needs to be done if nobody else will take him in hand.

There is no excuse for his behaviour.

The fault doesn't lay on her in any, way, shape or form. She could be in fear of what would happen if she were to leave him. Who knows what words have passed between them. This is completely on him, sadly she will bear the brunt of it.

[This message has been edited by Euda (edited 11-06-2006).]

Actually Euda, I'm pretty sure in most countries the victim (if an adult) has to press charges. I mean, sure, the cops will show up, but that's about it. If on the odd chance they do take him away, and she doesn't press charges, then he's gonna be fair pissed at someone.

quote:Originally posted by Euda:

She could be in fear of what would happen if she were to leave him.

I know you play the role of a "good guy". But nigga please..

There's no excuse for what either of them did in this situation, as far as my morals go you DO NOT hit a woman unless she is endangering your life and you DO NOT cheat, ever. I don't care how drunk, high, or mentally unstable you might be never do either of those things, if you can't control violence get help, if you're going to go sleep with someone else at the very least break up with your current partner first....no excuses, both are unacceptable acts.

I know they haven't been together long, but she cheated on him. She betrayed his trust.

I think she deserved to be slapped, and if it were me, I'd have kicked her to the curb.

However, she did not deserve to be choke held, and she's a dumbass for staying together with this guy, who clearly has aggression problems.

Cheating is a sign that there is something obviously wrong with their relationship. Being slapped for it, on the other hand, is an entirely new ballpark. There was no excuse for him to slap her unless she hit him first. He could have yelled at her, dumped her, anything, just not hit her. And if she's still with him it's her own fault, you should make that clear to her. His fault for taking back a cheater and hers for putting up with abuse.

quote:Originally posted by Aseren:

I know you play the role of a "good guy". But nigga please..

It has has nothing to do with me.

So, you really think she's affraid to leave him? then why tell him in the first place./

Put curry powder in his underware as revenge for him hurting you wrist.

As for your friend, make her grow up and stand up for herself but don't just tell her to do it or you'll not be her friend - help her out. If you were having trouble with a guy who you relly liked and your friends just told you to grow up and walked off you'd be pretty pissed at them, even if you knew you were wrong.

It's not whats true, it's what people believe. She believes that he's worth it and just wants to fix things.

quote:Originally posted by Aseren:

So, you really think she's affraid to leave him? then why tell him in the first place.

It may be a possibility now, not before she was struck.

pint, I didn't suggest pressing charges; simple invovlement is enough to frighten many people.

quote:Originally posted by jackketch:

yes i used to think that way too...ten years of martial arts training etc etc.

Til some jacked-up-junky-girl tried to julienne my innards with a filleting knife.

If she didn't lose her hand i bet she thinks of me every time the weather changes...

owned! lol

When I found out one my ex was cheating on me, I moved out. Simple as that. Don't worry, he knows not to fuck around anymore.

quote:Originally posted by Euda:

The fault doesn't lay on her in any, way, shape or form. She could be in fear of what would happen if she were to leave him.

I'm sorry, but no. If she really wanted to leave she would. Sure, he's an ass, but she's a dumb whore, so it seems to be working out just right for them.

Does this thread remind anyone else of that song where the black chick is upset that her boyfriend is mad she cheated on him? You all must have heard it. It's on the radio everytime I am withing earshot of one.

If thats the first time he hit her and theres no past history of violence, then he has the pardon of the council. I'd -much- rather get backhanded then have my significant other cheat on me.

And as for you smacking him and getting roughed up in return...I've lost respect for you reading that. Having a cunt does not excuse violent or otherwise stupid behavior, nor does it nullify the consequences.

umm, he also grabbed firekitty, but the arm and bruised her.

He knows that I hate him, he lies about a lot of shit, and well. He is getting an ass beating.

One of our friends, kicked him in the ribs while he was sleeping, and well He is going to get it a lot worse if he tries shit. He knows that, and I promise he won't get away with anymore shit.

quote:Originally posted by bushy:

umm, he also grabbed firekitty, but the arm and bruised her.

She hit him, then he grabed her arm... Hmm... who is in the wrong there?

I didn't read anything but the first post.

My opinion is that she deserved it. If a girl cheats on you, it's okay to hit her. I don't support violence for no reason, but reasonable violence is resonable.

quote:Originally posted by bushy:

He is getting an ass beating.

He is going to get it a lot worse if he tries shit. He knows that, and I promise he won't get away with anymore shit.

I expect to hear more on this in the near future.

[This message has been edited by Euda (edited 11-06-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by srednatonmi:

I didn't read anything but the first post.

My opinion is that she deserved it. If a girl cheats on you, it's okay to hit her. I don't support violence for no reason, but reasonable violence is resonable.



Amen.

I'm not going to argue it, I hope that the foolish people posting here understand that hitting women is wrong. Period.

quote:Originally posted by Euda:

I'm not going to argue it, I hope that the foolish people posting here understand that hitting other people (unless in self defence) is wrong. Period.

Fixed. My opinion anyway.



[This message has been edited by Strakynyar Krongoth (edited 11-06-2006).]

I'm not trying to justify domestic violence, but sometimes when put in a situation like that, you can really surprise yourself.

I don't have a history of violence, and when I walked in on my now ex girlfriend cheating on me, I beat the shit out of him, and then grabbed her by the shoulders and slammed her into a wall.

I'm certainly not proud about any of this, but I don't exactly feel bad about it either.

I have no history of violence and if it makes any difference, I was quite a bit intoxicated that night. Honestly, I would have liked to hit her, but it's not worth the jail time.

quote:Originally posted by kAtE-:

Although I don't condone violence. He could have handled it differently, slapping her was wrong - walking out on her and ending the relationship would have been the best course of action.

Definatly.

No need to resort to physical violence in a relationship.

Use them nasty words, emmotional blackmail, whatever, but to me, beating your partner just isn't on.

Well...I guess there are exceptions when both parties get carried away and "fight for their lives"

But none of the "zut alors, espéce de pute!" *whack*

Gosh?! Are you all getting the full juiciness of this Soapy Opera without making it up into a little Fanzine? With pics & first person interviews?

You know how important good pics that go with their captions are. You've seen the supermarket tabloids. Get on it!

Christ... "It's never acceptable to beat a woman?" I get the feeling those of you with this view are the type of guy who takes a woman out for a date, pays for everything, perhaps gets a pity kiss and then never sees her again. I hold no double standards. I would take serious revenge on anyone who wronged me, whether it's a man or a woman.

This isn't the Victorian era anymore.

THANK YOU.

Equal rights? Equal fights.

I know that's just silly, but still. She deserved a smack to put her in her place. Fuckin' traitor.

Women think chivalry is dead? Yeah? Well, you're right, it is dead, and women killed it.

quote:Originally posted by Trapped In A Box:

I would take serious revenge on anyone who wronged me, whether it's a man or a woman.

This isn't the Victorian era anymore.

Women weren't beaten in the Victorian era?

I guess I need to brush up on my history.

She cheated on him, he hit her. They're even. He's an asshole though. She should dump him. But she's apparently too stupid to so she deserves anything she gets.

Anyone else getting really goddamn sick of hearing about firekitty and bushy's constant drama all the time? Seriously. It seems like every tiny thing that happens in their lives get posted on here. It's getting annoying.

quote:Originally posted by Trapped In A Box:

Christ... "It's never acceptable to beat a woman?" I get the feeling those of you with this view are the type of guy who takes a woman out for a date, pays for everything, perhaps gets a pity kiss and then never sees her again. I hold no double standards. I would take serious revenge on anyone who wronged me, whether it's a man or a woman.

This isn't the Victorian era anymore.

Seriously. Women are just people too. They're not mystical magical fairies that must never be touched.

The only reason it's wrong to hit a woman is because they're usually weaker than you are. I can deal with that. I don't approve of violence. However, as bushy has demonstrated, all of these holier-than-thou Knights in Shining Armor have no problem with violence towards other males. It's just fucking sexism and idiocy and it makes me sick.

Edit: While I'm on the subject... I bet firekitty, Euda, bushy, & the rest of the Shining Knights think rape is as bad as or worse than murder. If I so, I hate them and wish they would die. Rape is nowhere fucking near the crime murder is. So you got a cock shoved in you? So what. It's not any worse than any other sort of assault, barring an extremely horrible STD or pregnancy.

[This message has been edited by Twisted_Ferret (edited 11-06-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by bushy:

One of our friends, kicked him in the ribs while he was sleeping, and well He is going to get it a lot worse if he tries shit. He knows that, and I promise he won't get away with anymore shit.

In his sleep? That's a bitch move, pal.

I certainly can't defend his actions, but I may have very well done the same thing.

Question, how old is this guy?

And what she did was wrong. Maybe not a backhand from her boyfriend, but you as her friend should have slapped her in face.

Cheating is a really immature way to seek out attention. "I was drunk" is not an excuse.

quote:Originally posted by jebuonag:

In his sleep? That's a bitch move, pal.

When you're asleep, you're defenseless. Just like those precious, precious, fragile pure womanly goddesses!

quote:Originally posted by Demoiselle:

Anyone else getting really goddamn sick of hearing about firekitty and bushy's constant drama all the time? Seriously. It seems like every tiny thing that happens in their lives get posted on here. It's getting annoying.

Fuck, I know what you mean.

quote:Originally posted by Twisted_Ferret:

blah blah blah

Have you been raped? murdered?

Or is it that you like the idea of rape?

It's not to me to judge if it's "worse" than murder, or anything else for that matter; it's simply a horrible thing.

I dislike violence in general, but reasonable levels of violence towards abusive men, in order to discourage such wrongs, is understandable; although it is distasteful to me, I see it as occasionally being necessary.

[This message has been edited by Euda (edited 11-06-2006).]

There is only one solution, punch that sack of shit you call a friend in the face, and never speak to your dipshit female friend again.

You dont want to be involved in that shit, or with either of them.

quote:Originally posted by Euda:

Have you been raped? murdered?

Yes. That's the only way I could have an opinion on them, see. Also, I've eaten shit just so I can say that it tastes bad.

quote:Originally posted by Euda:

Women weren't beaten in the Victorian era?

I guess I need to brush up on my history.

I'm referring to the idea of "defending" women and them being weak, frail creatures for men to look after. If you hold to that belief and would never hit a woman under any circumstances you are quite naive and, really, quite disrespectful. If a woman wrongs me she's going to get a beating. I won't go too personal with insults, but you must have no idea how much abuse and trauma women can give to men with their head games as equally as men being abusive themselves.

quote:The only reason it's wrong to hit a woman is because they're usually weaker than you are. I can deal with that. I don't approve of violence. However, as bushy has demonstrated, all of these holier-than-thou Knights in Shining Armor have no problem with violence towards other males. It's just fucking sexism and idiocy and it makes me sick.

Edit: While I'm on the subject... I bet firekitty, Euda, bushy, & the rest of the Shining Knights think rape is as bad as or worse than murder. If I so, I hate them and wish they would die. Rape is nowhere fucking near the crime murder is. So you got a cock shoved in you? So what. It's not any worse than any other sort of assault, barring an extremely horrible STD or pregnancy.

Twisted Ferret, we have the same beliefs.

[This message has been edited by Trapped In A Box (edited 11-06-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by Trapped In A Box:

Twisted Ferret, we have the same beliefs.

Great minds think alike.

quote:Originally posted by Twisted_Ferret:

Also, I've eaten shit just so I can say that it tastes bad.

HA HA HA YOU LIE!

In fact it tastes like BUBBLEGUM, clearly you have never really eaten shit in your life or you would already have discovered this hidden mystery of the universe.

PWNED11111

My opinion? Violence against anyone (not just women) is wrong except in self-defense. Infidelity is also wrong. Neither of them were in the right in this situation, but they are apparently willing to carry on with their relationship, however fucked up it may be. So let them do it, and wash your hands of it.

quote:Originally posted by kAtE-:

I'd like to see you grow up in a home that has domestic violence and say that.

I've grown up in a home for domestic violence and I can pretty much vouch for that.

quote:Originally posted by Trapped In A Box:

I'm referring to the idea of "defending" women and them being weak, frail creatures for men to look after. If you hold to that belief and would never hit a woman under any circumstances you are quite naive and, really, quite disrespectful. If a woman wrongs me she's going to get a beating. I won't go too personal with insults, but you must have no idea how much abuse and trauma women can give to men with their head games as equally as men being abusive themselves.

You obviously have no concept of who I am. I have never thought a women weak in my life, but that's no reason not to defend someone.

I find your attitude disgusting. That's it, that's all.

[This message has been edited by Euda (edited 11-07-2006).]

Some guys have enough physical control to hold in their come to have multiple orgasms, but claim that they can't control their rage enough to stop short of hitting a woman.

It's kind of ridiculous here on totse. The views of this website are so much on the fringe, and people don't seem to realize it. In any other place the MODERATE view would be that the guy was clearly abusive and she should leave him. (Keep in mind that it was premeditated, not automatic. He invited her over with the intent to hit her. It wasn't a visceral reaction.) That's not even mentioning the argument that he should be arrested or have charges pressed against him.

The action that precipitated the violence is almost irrelevant, except in extreme cases. And this was not an extreme case. I am in no way condoning cheating, and it's very likely that this girl isn't someone any of us would want to know. But the fact is that this guy is violent and out of control and is likely to hurt other girls, even if they don't cheat on him. Come on guys, be smart. Violence is only appropriate in self defense, and even then should be used minimally.

And now I pose a rhetorical question to the angry guys who will likely quote me with the accusation of being a feminist or something silly.

There are often posts in this forum where guys confess to cheating on their girlfriends, or girls tell of guys who have cheated on them. Would it ever be right for the girl, in her "uncontrollable" anger, to go at the man with a baseball bat?



[This message has been edited by lauren7249 (edited 11-07-2006).]

If this level of violence makes her very wet & aroused? Would it be wrong of him not to use it?

quote:Originally posted by Euda:

I'm not going to argue it, I hope that the foolish people posting here understand that hitting women is wrong. Period.

Hitting people is wrong... period.

I would never hit a girl or woman, restraining is fine... a.k.a. grabing and holding... but I also feel that women do feel like they are in the right to smack whomever they wish... and that's just as wrong as hitting a woman.

quote:Originally posted by Demoiselle:

She cheated on him, he hit her. They're even. He's an asshole though. She should dump him. But she's apparently too stupid to so she deserves anything she gets.



He's an asshole? If anything, he's stupid because he took her back.

quote:Originally posted by lauren7249:

It's kind of ridiculous here on totse. The views of this website are so much on the fringe, and people don't seem to realize it. In any other place the MODERATE view would be that the guy was clearly abusive and she should leave him.



You know what the main difference is between totse and all those other places?

Here people say EXACTLY what they really feel.

Elsewhere people censor themselves, either in what they say out loud or what they admit to themselves, because they're socially conditioned to remain within the parameters of "acceptable" beliefs and behaviours.

The best thing about totse is the brutal honesty.

That's the real reason why you come across more fucked up shit here than in other places.

[This message has been edited by fullcircle (edited 11-07-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by Euda:

I'm not going to argue it, I hope that the foolish people posting here understand that hitting women is wrong. Period.



Thats the most ignorant sentence I've ever heard. How can you possibly say that?

You specifically left out men. Why is it only wrong to hit women? Because for some reason women are somehow above men? Thats so fucking ignorant...Seriously. I think you should surrender your testicles to the council of men ASAP.

Hitting women is wrong.

Hitting men is wrong.

Sometimes, its warranted.

quote:Originally posted by lauren7249:

Some guys have enough physical control to hold in their come to have multiple orgasms, but claim that they can't control their rage enough to stop short of hitting a woman.

It's kind of ridiculous here on totse. The views of this website are so much on the fringe, and people don't seem to realize it. In any other place the MODERATE view would be that the guy was clearly abusive and she should leave him. (Keep in mind that it was premeditated, not automatic. He invited her over with the intent to hit her. It wasn't a visceral reaction.) That's not even mentioning the argument that he should be arrested or have charges pressed against him.

The action that precipitated the violence is almost irrelevant, except in extreme cases. And this was not an extreme case. I am in no way condoning cheating, and it's very likely that this girl isn't someone any of us would want to know. But the fact is that this guy is violent and out of control and is likely to hurt other girls, even if they don't cheat on him. Come on guys, be smart. Violence is only appropriate in self defense, and even then should be used minimally.

And now I pose a rhetorical question to the angry guys who will likely quote me with the accusation of being a feminist or something silly.

There are often posts in this forum where guys confess to cheating on their girlfriends, or girls tell of guys who have cheated on them. Would it ever be right for the girl, in her "uncontrollable" anger, to go at the man with a baseball bat?



Violent, out of control and likely to hurt others unprovoked? You're basing this on the fact that he hit his girlfriend once, after finding out she had cheated on him and because he "made a red mark" on the OP's wrist after she attacked him first?!

quote:Originally posted by lauren7249:

And now I pose a rhetorical question to the angry guys who will likely quote me with the accusation of being a feminist or something silly.

There are often posts in this forum where guys confess to cheating on their girlfriends, or girls tell of guys who have cheated on them. Would it ever be right for the girl, in her "uncontrollable" anger, to go at the man with a baseball bat?

Yes. Though hitting someone with a baseball bat doesn't equal a little back handed slap. Jeez.

Here's a nifty guide I've written for women. It details the steps nessicary to not get hit by rabbitweed:

1. don't go out with rabbitweed then cheat on him

2. don't attempt to assault rabbitweed

[This message has been edited by rabbitweed (edited 11-07-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by fullcircle:



You know what the main difference is between totse and all those other places?

Here people say EXACTLY what they really feel.

Elsewhere people censor themselves, either in what they say out loud or what they admit to themselves, because they're socially conditioned to remain within the parameters of "acceptable" beliefs and behaviours.

The best thing about totse is the brutal honesty.

That's the real reason why you come across more fucked up shit here than in other places.



Amen... on that note:

We should leave everyone in Africa to die. we on;y hurt them by giving them money and we should listen to Darwin a little more... survival of the fittest.

quote:Originally posted by noman01:

Amen... on that note:

We should leave everyone in Africa to die. we on;y hurt them by giving them money and we should listen to Darwin a little more... survival of the fittest.

lol (YOU FUCKIN SUCKSHITASS+DSK_JDSH)

quote:Originally posted by noman01:

Amen... on that note:

We should leave everyone in Africa to die. we on;y hurt them by giving them money and we should listen to Darwin a little more... survival of the fittest.





Thats the truth actually...Some of the more educated africans actually protest the foreign aid because their economies become dependant on it and it stunts their growth as a nation.

quote:Originally posted by fullcircle:

lol (YOU FUCKIN SUCKSHITASS+DSK_JDSH)

haha, sorry, out of place... just speaking my mind.

It's kind of like the assulting girls and abusive boyfriend situation... kind of.

quote:Originally posted by noman01:

haha, sorry, out of place... just speaking my mind.

It's kind of like the assulting girls and abusive boyfriend situation... kind of.

i was jokkin =]

quote:Originally posted by fullcircle:



You know what the main difference is between totse and all those other places?

Here people say EXACTLY what they really feel.

Elsewhere people censor themselves, either in what they say out loud or what they admit to themselves, because they're socially conditioned to remain within the parameters of "acceptable" beliefs and behaviours.

The best thing about totse is the brutal honesty.

That's the real reason why you come across more fucked up shit here than in other places.





In reality, that's not the case. I'll tell you a little secret now. Since women are in the minority on totse, and want to be liked and accepted, they often censor themselves when women's issues come up, for fear of being labeled a feminist. Yes, it's true. I used to do it too. So the real difference between totse and real life is that on totse, the men don't censor themselves and the women do.

quote:Originally posted by fullcircle:

i was jokkin =]

well now that we're on the topic... you think the Africa topic could have a place in S&A... it's about affection of human kind... ?? Or would I most likly get my ass beat in internet language?

quote:Originally posted by SilentMind:



Thats the truth actually...Some of the more educated africans actually protest the foreign aid because their economies become dependant on it and it stunts their growth as a nation.



Yep and beggars on the street are always saying the same thing. "We need an INCENTIVE to get a fuckin job", that's the slogan they paint on the side of their cardboard boxes. I seen it.

quote:Originally posted by lauren7249:



In reality, that's not the case. I'll tell you a little secret now. Since women are in the minority on totse, and want to be liked and accepted, they often censor themselves when women's issues come up, for fear of being labeled a feminist.

That's quite another issue.

[This message has been edited by fullcircle (edited 11-07-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by lauren7249:



In reality, that's not the case. I'll tell you a little secret now. Since women are in the minority on totse, and want to be liked and accepted, they often censor themselves when women's issues come up, for fear of being labeled a feminist. Yes, it's true. I used to do it too. So the real difference between totse and real life is that on totse, the men don't censor themselves and the women do.

I once didn't say something because I was scared and wanted to impress someone... I guess that means all teenage males in the world must not say things because they're scared... good to know.

P.s. your logic is awesome! (thumbs up!)

quote:Originally posted by HandOfZek:

Violent, out of control and likely to hurt others unprovoked? You're basing this on the fact that he hit his girlfriend once, after finding out she had cheated on him and because he "made a red mark" on the OP's wrist after she attacked him first?!

Yes, most likely. The attack was premeditated. But more importantly, there is a division between guys who control their rage and guys who don't. The difference is huge. A guy who controls himself would almost never do what firekitty described, except in an extreme situation. And this was most certainly not an extreme situation.

Hitting people is wrong.

Cheating on people is wrong.

Getting involved in others' drama is just stupid. Stay out of it, and life is much happier.

Added.., I find it mildly ironic that HandofZek posted in this thread..

SLAP!

quote:Originally posted by lauren7249:

Yes, most likely. The attack was premeditated. But more importantly, there is a division between guys who control their rage and guys who don't. The difference is huge. A guy who controls himself would almost never do what firekitty described, except in an extreme situation. And this was most certainly not an extreme situation.

And if she kept her fucking hands to herself to begin with... controlling her rage... he would have never done a thing...



hmmm... I forgot... women don't have to be rational because they bleed for several days from their cunts.



[edit:spelling]





[This message has been edited by noman01 (edited 11-07-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by noman01:

I once didn't say something because I was scared and wanted to impress someone... I guess that means all teenage males in the world must not say things because they're scared... good to know.

P.s. your logic is awesome! (thumbs up!)





You misread my "logic." It's not based on my own experience, but on my knowledge of social psychology. The environment or situation a person is in will often strongly dictate the views they express. There is adequate proof of this through research. I won't attempt to justify it any further, since a whole field of study is devoted to the phenomenon.

quote:Originally posted by lauren7249:



You misread my "logic." It's not based on my own experience, but on my knowledge of social psychology. The environment or situation a person is in will often strongly dictate the views they express. There is adequate proof of this through research. I won't attempt to justify it any further, since a whole field of study is devoted to the phenomenon.

They do studies on feminists holding themselves back on totse?

quote:Originally posted by noman01:

And if she kept her fucking hands to herself to begin with... controlling her rage... he would have never done a thing...



hmmm... I forgot... women don't have to be rational because they bleed for several days from their cunts.



[edit:spelling]







I'm not even sure what you're referring to. The fact that she cheated? I already said that that was not justifiable. Firekitty's "slap"? I wasn't citing that as evidence. I was citing the mangled face of his girlfriend.

quote:Originally posted by noman01:

hmmm... I forgot... women don't have to be rational because they bleed for several days from their cunts.



I see you read the classics.

quote:"Don't trust anything that bleeds for a few days straight without dying"

Aristotle"

quote:Originally posted by noman01:

They do studies on feminists holding themselves back on totse?





No, they do studies on the phenomenon of people altering the way they express their views depending on the maintstream view. Logic by deduction allows us to draw the conclusion that totse is not an exception.

Anyway, according to fullcircle's logic, what's expressed on totse must be what people REALLY think in the real world, and therefore is probably a more accurate measure of views than what is expressed outside of totse. You need only look in Bad Ideas or BLTC to see how wholly untrue this is.



[This message has been edited by lauren7249 (edited 11-07-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by lauren7249:



No, they do studies on the phenomenon of people altering the way they express their views depending on the maintstream view.



If women are equal to men (bear in mind that this is precisely what I believe myself), why aren't they capable of standing up for their own views?

quote:Originally posted by fullcircle:



If women are equal to men (bear in mind that this is precisely what I believe myself), why aren't they capable of standing up for their own views?



You're misinterpreting what I said. This does not only apply to women on totse, but to men and women in a variety of situations.

quote:Originally posted by lauren7249:



You're misinterpreting what I said. This does not only apply to women on totse, but to men and women in a variety of situations.



Maybe the reason why I'm not following you is because I started talking about how people do that in general, and when you disagreed you raised the issue of women on totse being a special case.

Allow me to amend what I said in the post in question. It's not as simple as men expressing themselves and women staying silent. It's the fact that for the most part, totse either attracts extremists, encourages them to express their views, or discourages people on the other side of the debate from expressing their views, which will be in the minority on totse. While totse is a mishmash of ideas and there is a lot of dissent, it is not the case that everyone is totally "uncensored." The rules of the outside world still apply, except that in this case there is a different mainstream.

[This message has been edited by lauren7249 (edited 11-07-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by noman01:

And if she kept her fucking hands to herself to begin with... controlling her rage... he would have never done a thing...

I guess firekitty is damn lucky she kept her hands to herself with you...right?

Wouldn't want her to have provoked you, forced you even, into something.

Tell your friend she's stupid.

She's with a complete tosser, and she cheated on him.

I'd probably advise against hitting him, he's stronger than you and clearly doesn't feel worried about hitting chicks.

quote:Originally posted by lauren7249:

Allow me to amend what I said in the post in question. It's not as simple as men expressing themselves and women staying silent. It's the fact that for the most part, totse either attracts extremists, encourages them to express their views, or discourages people on the other side of the debate from expressing their views, which will be in the minority on totse. While totse is a mishmash of ideas and there is a lot of dissent, it is not the case that everyone is totally "uncensored." The rules of the outside world still apply, except that in this case there is a different mainstream.



Well I should also modify what I said to take into account that, as you said, totse DOES attract a disproportionate amount of deviant personalities.

But frankly it's my opinion that deep down, the views you hear on totse are quite representative of people in general, the only difference being that the typical member of society represses unacceptable beliefs and opinions. The increased "deviant" population on totse only really differs in that they lack those internal restraints.

Naturally I can't back that up with evidence, but it's what I believe.

Can't men and women see themselves as equals yet?!

Heh. Lauren, I don't understand your position anymore. I'm not saying she deserved to be.. "mangled", as you put it, but honestly the attack was not unprovoked and you have no evidence to support your theory that he invited her over for the sole purpose of hitting her. You also don't know the extent to which her cheating hurt him on an emotional level, which is something else you automatically assume can't be worse than her getting a fat lip (which is honestly NOT a big deal!).

quote:Originally posted by fullcircle:



Well I should also modify what I said to take into account that, as you said, totse DOES attract a disproportionate amount of deviant personalities.

But frankly it's my opinion that deep down, the views you hear on totse are quite representative of people in general, the only difference being that the typical member of society represses unacceptable beliefs and opinions. The increased "deviant" population on totse only really differs in that they lack those internal restraints.

Naturally I can't back that up with evidence, but it's what I believe.



Fair enough. I can understand that viewpoint, and I believe people in this thread are being very honest about what they think for the most part. But we still have to remember (especially those of us who have been here for way too long) that the mainstream here is not the real mainstream, but in fact extremely far from it. And we should especially be vigilant about not accidentally adopting the mainstream view here by virtue of hearing it expressed so often and so earnestly.

If I didn't know better, for a fact, I'd say that lauren and fullcircle were two old men arguing over something while drinking poorly brewed coffee at a mall.

quote:Originally posted by HandOfZek:

Can't men and women see themselves as equals yet?!

Heh. Lauren, I don't understand your position anymore. I'm not saying she deserved to be.. "mangled", as you put it, but honestly the attack was not unprovoked and you have no evidence to support your theory that he invited her over for the sole purpose of hitting her. You also don't know the extent to which her cheating hurt him on an emotional level, which is something else you automatically assume can't be worse than her getting a fat lip (which is honestly NOT a big deal!).



No, you're confusing what I'm saying. I'm not comparing the two wrongs. And while the attack was not necessarily premeditated, the fact that there was ample time between his finding out what she did and when he hit her precludes the possibility of an automatic, visceral reaction.

quote:Originally posted by Euda:

If I didn't know better, for a fact, I'd say that lauren and fullcircle were two old men arguing over something while drinking poorly brewed coffee at a mall.



Haha, are you making fun of us?? I better get going. This debate has kept me here way too long, and I have an obsessive date to attend to...

quote:Originally posted by HandOfZek:

Can't men and women see themselves as equals yet?!



This isn't directed at lauren, but as a general point I find it just plain contradictory how feminists argue BOTH that women should be treated as equals to men, AND ALSO given special treatment as if they can't look after themselves.

Men and women ARE equal, and that means if they go head to head against each other a woman should be JUST as likely to win as the man is.

But when a man is physically stronger than a woman, he shouldn't attack her. It's nothing to do with him having a dick - it's just as wrong for a female bodybuilder for example to beat up a puny guy. However genetics tends to favor men when it comes to physical strength.

Women need to learn to stand up for themselves. Seriously - it's an attitude thing.

[This message has been edited by fullcircle (edited 11-07-2006).]

Ah, I see now. You see ANY act of violence like this to be worth punishment. No matter how I look at this though, I can't understand why you never want to take into account the REASON for him hitting her. It's as if you're defensive about this issue because it's affected you in the past, and you're blinded into only seeing one side of the issue. Both the act of cheating and the physical abuse MUST be taken into account.

Is an act of revenge (legal or no) any better than a physical retaliation to a cheating girlfriend?

quote:Originally posted by lauren7249:



Haha, are you making fun of us?? I better get going. This debate has kept me here way too long, and I have an obsessive date to attend to...

Me too! And by that I mean Matlock.

You too right?

quote:Originally posted by fullcircle:



This isn't directed at lauren, but as a general point I find it just plain contradictory how feminists argue BOTH that women should be treated as equals to men, AND ALSO given special treatment as if they can't look after themselves.

Men and women ARE equal, and that means if they go head to head against each other a woman should be JUST as likely to win as the man is.

But when a man is physically stronger than a woman, he shouldn't attack her. It's nothing to do with him having a dick - it's just as wrong for a female bodybuilder for example to beat up a puny guy. However genetics tends to favor men when it comes to physical strength.

Women need to learn to stand up for themselves. Seriously - it's an attitude thing.



I've only met one woman who actually saw things this way (the LOGICAL way). I'd honestly rather a woman follow the "Man is head of woman" thing than contradict themselves, but..

It's a social problem that comes with change.

quote:Originally posted by HandOfZek:

It's a social problem that comes with change.



Yep.

But things aren't going to change themselves, and it'll take a lot of effort to fully achieve equality in the way people PERCEIVE men and women.

Who's going to make that effort?

Feminists get all caught up in past injustices against women, and yeah there's a lot to get angry about.

But what the fuck is that going to CHANGE?

Nothing.

So who's going to do make the effort and PRODUCE that change?

Men? LOL. That's contradictory to their general message.

Men and women working together? LOL. That's just unrealistic.

Women are going to have to do it.

In an ideal world blablablabla... We don't live in an ideal world.

Less talk, more action.

So to be equal if one significant other cheats, then the other should be able to slap them around a little bit. However comparably, in a rash generalization, the man will most likely always inflict more damage to the woman. If I were to sock my boyfriend in the face, I would do much less damage than if he were to hit me with the same ferocity. So now how are we to make it equal? Oh, I have an idea, how about people stop acting like five year olds throwing a tantrum when someone steals their candy: dump your piece of shit cheating boyfriend/girlfriend and deal with it like any other semi-rational person would. Find a grudgefuck and hit the bars.

Anyone who feels that cheating should definitely result in physical violence is either obviously too dependant on the other person for their emotions or they have agression problems. Either way get help. When things don't go your way what the fuck is the problem with sucking it up, and moving on. But I guess if you're a possessive emotionally unstable cocksucker, sure slap them around. Huzzah equality.

quote:Originally posted by fullcircle:



Yep.

But things aren't going to change themselves, and it'll take a lot of effort to fully achieve equality in the way people PERCEIVE men and women.

Who's going to make that effort?

Feminists get all caught up in past injustices against women, and yeah there's a lot to get angry about.

But what the fuck is that going to CHANGE?

Nothing.

So who's going to do make the effort and PRODUCE that change?

Men? LOL. That's contradictory to their general message.

Men and women working together? LOL. That's just unrealistic.

Women are going to have to do it.

In an ideal world blablablabla... We don't live in an ideal world.

Less talk, more action.

Women seem to like where they're at now, and true equality now would end up hurting their.. power?

Much as before the men didn't want women to have all those crazy jobs and stuff.. the women now don't want to lose their outdated advantages.

People are selfish, we all know this. In a situation such as this, change becomes difficult. It's easier for a repressed majority (^^) to fight against something holding them back than it will be for a minority that ISN'T repressed to fight against the advantages of the, until recently, suppressed majority.

Women are victimized, and now that they have the advantage.. nothing is stopping them from keeping it. They themselves don't want it to change (why would they?), and if the men try it they'll be publicly shunned.

^ lol I partially agree with that but I'd never admit it to a girl (whose panties I was trying to get into anyway)

quote:Originally posted by fullcircle:

^ lol I partially agree with that but I'd never admit it to a girl (whose panties I was trying to get into anyway)

'Course not! They want to think that they're actually being treated equally, and there's nothing like a bloated ego to get those panties off.

quote:Originally posted by Euda:

I guess firekitty is damn lucky she kept her hands to herself with you...right?

Wouldn't want her to have provoked you, forced you even, into something.



no because I don't hit women... I don't hit anybody... I'm not an angry person, I'm just saying that if she's putting herself into a situation where she innitiates violence... she can't be suprised when violence comes back her way. Unless she is mentally handicapped and does not know better, which she is not.

why you would ever get the idea that I would ever care to cause any, especially physical harm to firekitty is way beyond me...

quote:Originally posted by fullcircle:



This isn't directed at lauren, but as a general point I find it just plain contradictory how feminists argue BOTH that women should be treated as equals to men, AND ALSO given special treatment as if they can't look after themselves.

Men and women ARE equal, and that means if they go head to head against each other a woman should be JUST as likely to win as the man is.

But when a man is physically stronger than a woman, he shouldn't attack her. It's nothing to do with him having a dick - it's just as wrong for a female bodybuilder for example to beat up a puny guy. However genetics tends to favor men when it comes to physical strength.

Women need to learn to stand up for themselves. Seriously - it's an attitude thing.



i'm back. (date postponed). first of all (and i know your statement wasn't directed at me), i'm not a feminist. second of all, i don't believe men and women are equal. that's like saying tomatoes and potatoes are equal. different anatomies, hello. third, i did take into account what she did to him. but guess what? maybe that's not where it all started. maybe she was cheating at him in retaliation for something hurtful he did, and on and on and on. who the hell knows. anyway, the point is that i can't condone violence, especially when exercised by the strong on the weak. and no, i was never a victim of violence. it's just something that i believe. apparently i have a lot of support on that belief, since it's against the law to physically abuse someone, regardless of whether or not the attack was in response to a greater offense.

to fullcircle. you said something like "if women want to be equal, then they should just stand up for themselves." think for a minute about the purpose of government. protection of property rights, yes. but also protection of people who are weak against those who are strong. protection of the same liberties for everyone. now rethink your statement. is it really right to say that if one group is physically weaker than another that they should not be afforded the same liberties and rights, and equally protected by their government? because that's essentially how your statement can be interpreted.

anyway, you guys are taking the issue of physical abuse, and extending it in order to talk about equality of the sexes. it's actually pretty senseless if you think about it.



[This message has been edited by lauren7249 (edited 11-07-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by lauren7249:

Some guys have enough physical control to hold in their come to have multiple orgasms, but claim that they can't control their rage enough to stop short of hitting a woman.

Emotional control and physical control are very different things.

quote:He invited her over with the intent to hit her.

He did? Did I miss something?



quote:But the fact is that this guy is violent and out of control

Somehow I don't think a single backhand slap is out of control.

quote:Would it ever be right for the girl, in her "uncontrollable" anger, to go at the man with a baseball bat?

Backhand: Swollen lip.

Baseball bat: Serious damage and possibly permanent injury.

Come on, you can do better than this ridiculous hyperbole.

quote:Originally posted by lauren7249:

In reality, that's not the case. I'll tell you a little secret now. Since women are in the minority on totse, and want to be liked and accepted, they often censor themselves when women's issues come up, for fear of being labeled a feminist. Yes, it's true. I used to do it too. So the real difference between totse and real life is that on totse, the men don't censor themselves and the women do.

Can any other women confirm this? Because I can't ever recall any other women on Totse making great efforts to be liked.

^^^he also put her in a chokehold. he asked her to come over and "talk to him" about it.

quote:Originally posted by fullcircle:

But when a man is physically stronger than a woman, he shouldn't attack her. It's nothing to do with him having a dick - it's just as wrong for a female bodybuilder for example to beat up a puny guy. However genetics tends to favor men when it comes to physical strength.

Exactly. I wouldn't object to the "you should never hit a woman" crowd if all they meant was "you should never hurt someone weaker than you." But these people are also the sorts who don't object at all in violence toward other makes; often, like bushy, going so far as to apparently relish it in their role as Protector of Everything Weak and Feminine.

quote:Originally posted by Twisted_Ferret:

Originally posted by lauren7249:

In reality, that's not the case. I'll tell you a little secret now. Since women are in the minority on totse, and want to be liked and accepted, they often censor themselves when women's issues come up, for fear of being labeled a feminist. Yes, it's true. I used to do it too. So the real difference between totse and real life is that on totse, the men don't censor themselves and the women do.

Can any other women confirm this? Because I can't ever recall any other women on Totse making great efforts to be liked.



read the rest of my statements; i'm not reposting what i already said.

quote:Originally posted by lauren7249:

^^^he also put her in a chokehold. he asked her to come over and "talk to him" about it.

Do we have any indication that he didn't just lose control while talking?

Regardless, I don't think he's in the right. I said this before. My only objection was directed toward the Knights in Shining Armor, as I like to call them.

quote:Originally posted by Twisted_Ferret:

Originally posted by fullcircle:

But when a man is physically stronger than a woman, he shouldn't attack her. It's nothing to do with him having a dick - it's just as wrong for a female bodybuilder for example to beat up a puny guy. However genetics tends to favor men when it comes to physical strength.

Exactly. I wouldn't object to the "you should never hit a woman" crowd if all they meant was "you should never hurt someone weaker than you." But these people are also the sorts who don't object at all in violence toward other makes; often, like bushy, going so far as to apparently relish it in their role as Protector of Everything Weak and Feminine.



no actually, i agree with you. i object to violence in most forms.

Apart from a small group most of the girls on totse are pretty laid back. Lauren, are you just speaking from your own experience or do you actually see this? If so, where?

quote:Originally posted by noman01:

why you would ever get the idea that I would ever care to cause any, especially physical harm to firekitty is way beyond me...

So you wouldn't do it, but it's fine for someone else? If they're provoked that is to say.

quote:Originally posted by lauren7249:



no actually, i agree with you. i object to violence in most forms.

Then I have perhaps mistaken your position in my eagerness. Carry on!

ok im trying to see it from the perspective of the guys who are defending the guy who "loses control." i guess from the guy's perspective, a little violence doesn't do too much harm, right? it's a bruise, a swollen lip, whatever. i mean, the woman can just hit you back if she wants to.

if you look at it from the woman's perspective, however, if a guy hits you it is completely unsafe to retaliate, because it is likely to incite his anger and endanger you more. so basically when someone stronger attacks someone weaker, it is a very scary situation for the weaker person. the wisest thing for them to do is to not fight back, since they would surely lose, but to wait for the violence to end on its own. and not knowing when it will end must be very scary. so guys, try to think of it from the weaker person's perspective.

quote:Originally posted by Euda:

So you wouldn't do it, but it's fine for someone else? If they're provoked that is to say.

If another guy hit you, would you hit him back?

I'm guessing the answer is yes.

Now ask yourself, if men and women are equal, why should it be any different if a girl hits you?

I like you as a poster, but I think your views here are rather contradictory.

quote:Originally posted by Trapped In A Box:

Apart from a small group most of the girls on totse are pretty laid back. Lauren, are you just speaking from your own experience or do you actually see this? If so, where?

What I see is people starting from one position, and then making concessions to the other party when their views are assailed by the majority. You can witness it in most situations where the minority is not unified or well represented. If you stay in an environment for a long enough time, eventually you internalize the things you say as your own view points and move closer to the center of the population you're in.



[This message has been edited by lauren7249 (edited 11-07-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by neato bandito:

If another guy hit you, would you hit him back?

I'm guessing the answer is yes.

Now ask yourself, if men and women are equal, why should it be any different if a girl hits you?

I like you as a poster, but I think your views here are rather contradictory.



equal rights does not mean equal anatomy!

quote:Originally posted by lauren7249:



equal rights does not mean equal anatomy!

So you're saying that a woman can hit a man, and if he hits her back that she can call assault on him because she's weaker?

Twisted Ferret, what sort of history of abuse, or retaliation/punishment if you choose to deem it that, do you have with partners?

quote:Originally posted by lauren7249:

to fullcircle. you said something like "if women want to be equal, then they should just stand up for themselves." think for a minute about the purpose of government. protection of property rights, yes. but also protection of people who are weak against those who are strong. protection of the same liberties for everyone. now rethink your statement. is it really right to say that if one group is physically weaker than another that they should not be afforded the same liberties and rights, and equally protected by their government? because that's essentially how your statement can be interpreted.



Perhaps I wasn't clear in my point.

In terms of physical strength, men and women aren't equal.

But in more general ontological terms (for lack of a better word) men and women ARE equal.

quote:

anyway, you guys are taking the issue of physical abuse, and extending it in order to talk about equality of the sexes. it's actually pretty senseless if you think about it.

What I've been trying to say is perfectly in agreement with what you just said.

quote:Originally posted by Euda:

Twisted Ferret, what sort of history of abuse, or retaliation/punishment if you choose to deem it that, do you have with partners?

He beats the living shit out of me when you guys aren't around.

*cries*

I shouldn't have said that.

He'll punish me as soon as we're alone...

quote:Originally posted by neato bandito:

So you're saying that a woman can hit a man, and if he hits her back that she can call assault on him because she's weaker?

no, you're putting words in my mouth. and that did not occur in the preceding situation. i do not believe that a woman should hit a man, nor that a man should hit a woman. an exception would be if they both consented to do so to one another, and got mutual enjoyment from it.



[This message has been edited by lauren7249 (edited 11-07-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by lauren7249:

no, you're putting words in my mouth. and that situation did not occur in the preceding situation. i do not believe that a woman should hit a man, or that a man should hit a woman.

You're contradicting yourself here, Lauren. I don't believe that either of these things should occur either. That wasn't the question that I asked Euda (not you, incidentally). I asked him whether he would hit a male back if the male hit him, and why it should be any different if a female hit him. If people truly have equal rights, then a man who is physically attacked by a woman should be allowed to defend himself just as much as a woman in the same situation.

quote:Originally posted by Euda:

So you wouldn't do it, but it's fine for someone else? If they're provoked that is to say.

If a particular individual feels theatened or provoked to be violent, because someone was violent against them, then that is their buisness... if they want to, they have to deal with the situation and their feelings, and the other person and their feelings... it in no way involves me.

Do I think the guy should have been violent to firekitty, no. Do it think she deserved it in that particualr situation as I happen to know it, yes.

quote:Originally posted by lauren7249:

an exception would be if they both consented to do so to one another, and got mutual enjoyment from it.



How would you feel about it if they both consented to it, but then once it was all done and over with, only one of them enjoyed it?

I'm in a funny mood, lawl.

quote:Originally posted by neato bandito:

If another guy hit you, would you hit him back?

I'm guessing the answer is yes.

Now ask yourself, if men and women are equal, why should it be any different if a girl hits you?

I like you as a poster, but I think your views here are rather contradictory.

I've laughed off as many hits as I've retaliated. Do you really think that throwing a punch is the only way to hurt someone?

If a woman is hitting you, chances are that you deserve it. If you don't deserve it, words can do as much as a blow ever could; striking a woman demonstrates absolutly nothing positive and accomplishes even less.

There is no such thing as equality or inequality. Each person is different, be them male or female.

quote:Originally posted by Euda:

I've laughed off as many hits as I've retaliated. Do you really think that throwing a punch is the only way to hurt someone?

If a woman is hitting you, chances are that you deserve it. If you don't deserve it, words can do as much as a blow ever could; striking a woman demonstrates absolutly nothing positive and accomplishes even less.

There is no such thing as equality or inequality. Each person is different, be them male or female.

I know very well that throwing a punch is not the only way to hurt someone. I didn't say that it was, and it had nothing to do with the question that I asked.

How about if said female is hitting you with, oh, let's say a baseball bat? Something that could potentially threaten your life? Think words are going to work then? I'm not saying violence accomplishes anything positive. I am a nonviolent person except in cases of self-defense. Are you saying that you'd forfeit the right to defend yourself if your attacker was female?

And there is such a thing as equality. It's called the law.

quote:Originally posted by neato bandito:

You're contradicting yourself here, Lauren. I don't believe that either of these things should occur either. That wasn't the question that I asked Euda (not you, incidentally). I asked him whether he would hit a male back if the male hit him, and why it should be any different if a female hit him. If people truly have equal rights, then a man who is physically attacked by a woman should be allowed to defend himself just as much as a woman in the same situation.



if you believe the distinction between equal rights and equal fighting abilities is a contradiction, then i can't engage in a logical debate with you. and we are not talking about a situation in which a woman physically attacks a man first. and you did quote me.

quote:Originally posted by neato bandito:

I know very well that throwing a punch is not the only way to hurt someone. I didn't say that it was, and it had nothing to do with the question that I asked.

How about if said female is hitting you with, oh, let's say a baseball bat? Something that could potentially threaten your life? Think words are going to work then? I'm not saying violence accomplishes anything positive. I am a nonviolent person except in cases of self-defense. Are you saying that you'd forfeit the right to defend yourself if your attacker was female?

And there is such a thing as equality. It's called the law.



now you're distorting what was said. i think everyone in this thread more or less agrees that self defense is an appropriate exception.

quote:Originally posted by neato bandito:

Are you saying that you'd forfeit the right to defend yourself if your attacker was female?

And there is such a thing as equality. It's called the law.

The best defence is a good offence? No, the best offence is a good defence. You can defend yourself without lashing out or damaging a person. It is, in fact, possible.

Equality in the eyes of the law; there is bias to be found within that, but I won't bother get into that because I rest assured that you understand.

quote:Originally posted by lauren7249:



if you believe the distinction between equal rights and equal fighting abilities is a contradiction, then i can't engage in a logical debate with you. and we are not talking about a situation in which a woman physically attacks a man first. and you did quote me.

In my initial post, I quoted Euda. Go back and read. You then quoted my post and jumped in to what I was talking about, which WAS a situation in which a woman physically attacked a man first.

You can't go around saying "Well, we have equal rights, but men should never hit us even if we hit them because we can't fight them." You're going to say I'm putting words in your mouth, but if you actually THINK about what you are saying, that is what you're saying. If you hit someone, expect them to hit you back. If you can't take what you dish out, tough luck for you.

quote:Originally posted by neato bandito:

In my initial post, I quoted Euda. Go back and read. You then quoted my post and jumped in to what I was talking about, which WAS a situation in which a woman physically attacked a man first.

You can't go around saying "Well, we have equal rights, but men should never hit us even if we hit them because we can't fight them." You're going to say I'm putting words in your mouth, but if you actually THINK about what you are saying, that is what you're saying. If you hit someone, expect them to hit you back. If you can't take what you dish out, tough luck for you.



i didn't say "even if they hit us." that is a different situation, and the distinction changes the nuance of my argument appreciably.

[This message has been edited by lauren7249 (edited 11-07-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by neato bandito:

If you hit someone, expect them to hit you back. If you can't take what you dish out, tough luck for you.



That's perhaps justifiable, as long as it meets one condition - proportional response.

What's funny is that we all agree the violence was bad, and we're just arguing over specifics and things that won't ever something something.

I love y'all.

anyway if you're fighting someone weaker than you who is unarmed, then the goal should just be to disable the other person so they can't attack you. that can often be done with restraint (holding the arms, pinning them down, etc). if you proceed beyond that point, you are unjustified.

Why does it seem that all of the people here standing up for women are placing women in a completly seperate catagory from men. Arn't we all people... penis or vagina or whatever?... hell, if someone fucks with you, you can fuck with them... it doesn't matter their race, sex, religion, or anything else... all you people are doing are trying to argue a point that men shouldn't hit women, at the same time you are trying to say everyone is the same. Stop contradicting yourselves, it's really fucking annoying. Blind feminism, and blind sovinism are stupid... thanks.

quote:Originally posted by lauren7249:



i didn't say "even if they hit us." that is a different situation, and the distinction changes the nuance of my argument appreciably.



It's not a different situation. If you improved your reading comprehension a bit and went back through what I said initially, then you'd see that I was presenting a hypothetical situation in which a female physically attacked a male first. If I perhaps phrased my argument incorrectly so that you misunderstood, then I apologize.

And just so you and everyone else know, a lot of this is me playing devil's advocate, as I do not (repeat, do not) believe in physical violence. I was merely trying to point out the holes in your arguments, which I apparently didn't do all that well.

edit: Or maybe I did it well enough and you just refuse to listen to anyone else's points. Either way.

[This message has been edited by neato bandito (edited 11-07-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by HandOfZek:

What's funny is that we all agree the violence was bad, and we're just arguing over specifics and things that won't ever something something.

I love y'all.

Feel better soon.

quote:Originally posted by firekitty751:

She wasn't screaming at him.

She was apologizing.

Anyway, I'd like to stay uninvolved, but it's hard to be a good friend and be supportive and whatnot without him being involved. I told her today though, I'm going to have a hard time being a good friend to her if he's always around.

And he's all "God, Jillian, don't hate me, you're one of my best friends and I can't lose you" riiiight.

Yeah, she was apologizing, apologizing for spreading her legs and letting some other guys fucking dick into her snatch. Put two and two together...She wasn't right...He wasn't right. If they still want to work it out mind your own fucking business and leave it be.

it's becoming apparent that for the most part, we agree. this is turning into a rant, a battlefield of the sexes. it was never intended to be that, at least for me.

people are using this topic to vent about their frustrations with the convergence gender roles juxtaposed with the persistence of double standards. fine, but applying that to dating or sex is one thing. applying it to violence is another.

quote:Originally posted by another pint:

Actually Euda, I'm pretty sure in most countries the victim (if an adult) has to press charges. I mean, sure, the cops will show up, but that's about it. If on the odd chance they do take him away, and she doesn't press charges, then he's gonna be fair pissed at someone.

She's 17 and he's 18. I don't know if it makes a difference that she's not an adult, but she still "loves" this guy even if he hurt her, so I think she doesn't want to get him in trouble. It really doesn't matter if he was in the wrong or not, since she took him back, she might as well be saying what he did was okay because he apologized. If it happens again, she probably will forgive him again. That is where it's her fault.

quote:Originally posted by lauren7249:

people are using this topic to vent about their frustrations with the convergence gender roles juxtaposed with the persistence of double standards. fine, but applying that to dating or sex is one thing. applying it to violence is another.

And that is where you and I will never agree, but I'll leave it at that.

quote:Originally posted by neato bandito:

And that is where you and I will never agree, but I'll leave it at that.



just because gender roles are converging doesn't mean that physical abilites of the sexes are also converging.

it is generally wrong for the strong to attack the defenseless.

it is also wrong to attack those who can defend themselves.

it is justifiable to defend oneself as necessary, regardless of gender.

can we agree on these statements?

quote:Originally posted by soro_one:

Yeah, she was apologizing, apologizing for spreading her legs and letting some other guys fucking dick into her snatch. Put two and two together...She wasn't right...He wasn't right. If they still want to work it out mind your own fucking business and leave it be.

I believe it was said that the cheating was a kiss.

quote:Originally posted by lauren7249:



just because gender roles are converging doesn't mean that physical abilites of the sexes are also converging.

it is generally wrong for the strong to attack the defenseless.

it is also wrong to attack those who can defend themselves.

it is justifiable to defend oneself as necessary, regardless of gender.

can we agree on these statements?

I believe so.

quote:Originally posted by lauren7249:

anyway if you're fighting someone weaker than you who is unarmed, then the goal should just be to disable the other person so they can't attack you. that can often be done with restraint (holding the arms, pinning them down, etc). if you proceed beyond that point, you are unjustified.

Some women sure know how to struggle though.

More to the point, a lot of "compliance holds" can cause a lot of damage and a lot more pain than a slap to the face.

quote:Originally posted by soro_one:

Yeah, she was apologizing, apologizing for spreading her legs and letting some other guys fucking dick into her snatch. Put two and two together...She wasn't right...He wasn't right. If they still want to work it out mind your own fucking business and leave it be.

Actually she didn't do exactly that. She kissed some other guy (FK didn't specify the type of cheating). I'm not saying it's okay to cheat on anyone no matter what the act of cheating, but it is a little easier to forgive your significant other for kissing someone else than for sleeping with them. It would be for me, anyway.

quote:Originally posted by Euda:

Twisted Ferret, what sort of history of abuse, or retaliation/punishment if you choose to deem it that, do you have with partners?

None. Like I said, I oppose all sorts of violence. I would never hit my girlfriend - but not because she's a woman, but because I love her. I was a little sickened by Bazzle's thread on belting his partners, though I know some (ketch!) approve.

I think I may have misrespresented my position here. I get over-eager. So, to recap:

1.) The guy in firekitty's story is in the wrong.

2.) I personally would never hurt anyone unless by doing so I would save myself from equal or greater hurt. Violence is generally reprehensible.

3.) I think violence toward someone weaker is worst of all - no matter the gender of either of the combatants.

Edit: Quiet, fullcircle. You'll pay f... I mean, uh, we need to discuss this later.

[This message has been edited by Twisted_Ferret (edited 11-07-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by CarbonB:

Uh.........do you even know what the fuck the women's civil rights movement was? We didn't GIVE you anything, and women still aren't equals.

kATE what are you talking about? Lots of people grow up in domestic violence situations, and guess what this guy probably did too. She got slapped, she came back the very next day. She deserves everything that she gets.

Are you going to tell a thief that the cops were in the wrong for throwing his ass on the ground when he disobeyed the law? No, you aren't.

She broke the rules, she got hit, her dumbass came back, she gets everything she deserves. She probably even likes the drama that surrounds the anticipation of him hitting her. I bet she feeds off that shit.

I hope he gives her more of what she wants, being beat up.

I never said that her cheating was acceptable, infact I think its a very low act (please refer to my perivous post).

But I do NOT think (as stated in my pervious post) that the correct course of action for him to take was to hit her. He should have controlled himself, been a man about it and left her with some harsh words to go with it. Violence IN ANY FORM is NOT acceptable unless it is self-defense.

There are other ways of dealing with situations then to through punches, ESPEICALLY at a women that is physically weaker then a male.

There is also the emotional issues that come along with a male hitting a female - the feeling of dominance. A lot of the reasons that females stay in abusive relationships (and again, I can't believe some women stay) is because they are scared to leave in fear of more violence, but then if she stays, it can happen again.

I know that this isn't the case in this situation, there relationship isn't deep enough to hold a lot of these emotional issues but wives that are constantly hit when their husband loses their temper get into this spiral of doom that is hard to break out of.

Just because a lot of people (both male and female) aren't limited in the range of emotions that you seem to have CarbonB, doesn't mean they're weak - it's just their nature. Infact I'm pretty sure yours is a front a lot of the time.

People get attached, women espeically. Its confusing, one minute her husbands saying he loves her, and the next hes smacking her round. She loves him for his kindness and his compainionship when he isn't drunk or angered, but then he lashes out. If he's all you know, it can be hard to leave.

The problem gets 10x worse then there's children involved. Raise them without a father? Risk having the violence turned on them (if it isn't already)?

Its alright for you to say 'well the stupid bitch should just leave him' but its never as simple as that.

quote:Originally posted by firekitty751:

I slapped him once, and his reaction was to grab my wrist and twist. Over a week ago, and I have a bruise on my arm. He didn't have so much as a red mark.



I bet you didn't slap him again.

I don't go around picking fights, but if somone hits me, man or woman, and it hurts me enough to care, they will get hit back. Just because you can't defend yourself doesn't give you a right to hit him.

[This message has been edited by Defekt (edited 11-07-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by kAtE-:

Its alright for you to say 'well the stupid bitch should just leave him' but its never as simple as that.



It is actually always as simple as that. People have to do things they don't like in life. Whether is is putting down your sick dog, and leaving an abusive relationship, it is has to be done.

Uh... wow.

First, Demoiselle, if you're tired of reading it, you can stop at any time.

Second, I'm not saying I didn't deserve retaliation when I slapped him, but I was surprised that his reaction was so extreme, because I know for a fact I didn't hurt him. I slapped him like I'd slap a friend if we were messing around.

And, like emogan said, she kissed this other guy. She stopped it before it went any further, then she told him about it instead of lying. I'm not saying she was right, but I am biased toward her because of his history.

He's dated/fucked half of Columbus. He's cheated on most of them. The only times he didn't cheat, they did. I don't think she deserved to be hit, because she wasn't trying to be violent. He asked her if they could work things out, and then he hit her. He admitted it happened the way she told me.

So... yeah. Carry on.

Edit: Oh, ps, I think both of them are right fucking idiots for trying to work it out after all this.

[This message has been edited by firekitty751 (edited 11-07-2006).]

Originally posted by firekitty751:

I slapped him once, and his reaction was to grab my wrist and twist. Over a week ago, and I have a bruise on my arm. He didn't have so much as a red mark.

Since a lot of people have been saying he was justified to grab FK in this fashion because she slapped him, I want to disagree. She barely slapped him first. He was saying something that was making his girlfriend cry, and was not responding to simple requests of "stop, you're making her cry." So FK barely slapped him in order to get his attention away from upsetting his girlfriend, and he put her in vice grip, which obviously left a bruise. She demonstrated both on me when she first told me, and unless either was over- or under-exaggerated, he overreacted to her slap.

Violence is not quelled by GREATER violence, and I doubt the slap FK gave him would have made anyone think he was doing something in self-defense, since it was so light it didn't require retaliation.

I've only skimmed the reply's to the original topic so if this is repeated, sorry.



I have a firm belief that if you truly love someone you wouldn't want to ever harm them physically or emotionally, and they've both obviously done that to each other. I also don't see two people loving each other after a month and a half at seventeen and eighteen. These things need to be explained to whichever party is more responsive. Its simple in my eyes, if she had loved him the idea of cheating no mater what the circumstances never would've been there period. If he had loved her than hitting her would never have crossed his mind. I realize people make mistakes in relationship and shit happens but really its too early in the relationship for those kind of mistakes to take place, its not worth trying to fix. Somehow one of them is going to have to see them.



As for the whole hitting a woman/equality issue its simple to me there too. Its not right to hit anyone most of the time for any reason period. But it makes it ever more not okay if you're not in anyway in harms way. If it had been two guys and the second one obviously couldn't have done shit back, then its not okay either. There was no way this girl was going to hurt him he already had her in a choke hold, he was pissed off/hurt whatever the hell you want to call it and lost control, and he'll do it agian.

My husband has hit me before...And he shouldn't have done it, but I wouldn't leave him over it. It's not that simple, I mean people would say to me, "OMG leave him!" But how am I supposed to live the rest of my life without him? I think people who see it in those black and white terms have never been in love. Or at least they've never been in love where they would die without the person they love.

quote:Originally posted by Xiao Mei:

My husband has hit me before...And he shouldn't have done it, but I wouldn't leave him over it. It's not that simple, I mean people would say to me, "OMG leave him!" But how am I supposed to live the rest of my life without him? I think people who see it in those black and white terms have never been in love. Or at least they've never been in love where they would die without the person they love.

Although there is love there, I'm sure, that sounds like utter dependency to me. I seem to recall you stating that if he ever did it again that you would leave him.

I think that if both people treat each other with love and respect, that these things will not happen because that will also extend to any type of arguments that arise.

quote:Originally posted by Xiao Mei:

My husband has hit me before...And he shouldn't have done it, but I wouldn't leave him over it. It's not that simple, I mean people would say to me, "OMG leave him!" But how am I supposed to live the rest of my life without him? I think people who see it in those black and white terms have never been in love. Or at least they've never been in love where they would die without the person they love.

Because its a form of weakness, on both yours and his part.

Your exactly the type of case I was describing in my last post. Each to their own but any man that hits you doesn't do it for your own good - and any man that hits you certainly doesn't do it as an act of love.

quote:Originally posted by emogan:

She demonstrated both on me when she first told me, and unless either was over- or under-exaggerated, he overreacted to her slap.

That's right, but since she did not strike herself how certain can she be regarding the force of the impact? (People usually twist things in their favor. It's human nature, I think.) Plus, you didn't have the anger he did at the time either. Both factors need to be considered.

IMO

[This message has been edited by oc6 (edited 11-07-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by emogan:

Originally posted by firekitty751:

I slapped him once, and his reaction was to grab my wrist and twist. Over a week ago, and I have a bruise on my arm. He didn't have so much as a red mark.

Since a lot of people have been saying he was justified to grab FK in this fashion because she slapped him, I want to disagree. She barely slapped him first. He was saying something that was making his girlfriend cry, and was not responding to simple requests of "stop, you're making her cry." So FK barely slapped him in order to get his attention away from upsetting his girlfriend, and he put her in vice grip, which obviously left a bruise. She demonstrated both on me when she first told me, and unless either was over- or under-exaggerated, he overreacted to her slap.

Violence is not quelled by GREATER violence, and I doubt the slap FK gave him would have made anyone think he was doing something in self-defense, since it was so light it didn't require retaliation.

ever think it wasn't FK's buisness if the guy was upsetting his girlfriend? sure they're friends, but it's their relationship, and not her's to control... maybe if she let him go, they would have broken up right then and there and he would have never ever hit her... think about that?

quote:Originally posted by UnforgiVen3:

Women often forget that we are VERY aggressive creatures, our natural instinct when getting harassed is to physically defend ourselves. Consider this: you're a guy, and an absolutely psychopathic bitch is getting right into your face, screaming at you, calling you every name under the sun. Consider also that she is your SO, and knows you to the extent that she can easily push the right buttons to piss you riight off. She also seems to think that because she is a girl, she is bulletproof, and can say whatever she wants to you, without fear of retaliation. Because she is a girl. Because you're not allowed to hit a girl.

How is this not a form of abuse? Or even torture?

There's emotional abuse and physical abuse. Both are equally wrong.

Someone else treating you badly isn't an excuse to throw morals or laws aside and play get backs.

If she's harassing you, leave. If she makes you that miserable, leave.

There's a difference between a few pot shots during an arguement and abuse.

quote:Originally posted by kAtE-:

Because its a form of weakness, on both yours and his part.

Your exactly the type of case I was describing in my last post. Each to their own but any man that hits you doesn't do it for your own good - and any man that hits you certainly doesn't do it as an act of love.

No he did it because he was mad!

But everyone is flawed and we all have weaknesses. He is a good husband in many ways, but he does have his bad points too, just like I do.

quote:Originally posted by noman01:

ever think it wasn't FK's buisness if the guy was upsetting his girlfriend? sure they're friends, but it's their relationship, and not her's to control... maybe if she let him go, they would have broken up right then and there and he would have never ever hit her... think about that?

That's circular logic, going into "what if's" and such. It doesn't take you anywhere. I doubt that firekitty had such an impact on his personality and values.

quote:Originally posted by Xiao Mei:

No he did it because he was mad!

But everyone is flawed and we all have weaknesses. He is a good husband in many ways, but he does have his bad points too, just like I do.

That makes it excuseable, does it?

You love and care for him deeply though, so as long as you're happy with it.

I haven't seen you post for a while, I thought you may haved died.

quote:Originally posted by Euda:

That's circular logic, going into "what if's" and such. It doesn't take you anywhere. I doubt that firekitty had such an impact on his personality and values.

No, what I was saying is that prehaps if FK let this guy be a total dick to his girlfriend that one night, instead og slapping him and getting involved in his buisness, that prehaps the relationship between the abuser and attention seeker would have disbanded then, and the cheating would have never even mattered, in turn preventing the final outburst of violence towards the attention seeker.

quote:Originally posted by Euda:

That makes it excuseable, does it?

You love and care for him deeply though, so as long as you're happy with it.

I haven't seen you post for a while, I thought you may haved died.

Heh, I've been doing my fall cleaning! It's amazing how much dirt and gross stuff accumulates, even though I clean all of the time! I'm almost done, though, I just have to clean out the cabinets and rearrange the bookshelves.:P

quote:Originally posted by jackketch:

Once again OC6 shows that she is a wise as she is beautiful as she is old.

Perhaps you should re-word that last bit...?

It's really difficult.

Ofcourse, as you hit him, he had every right to defend him, and if that fight had gone further and the law got involved, as much as it sucks, he could claim that you were the one that attacked him and that he was merely defending himself.



Depending on how big he is, and how petite you are, that could go either way.



I got into one last violent fight with my ex last week. Despite the fact that I'm a 4ft11 flabby kid and he's a lean 6ft aikido and tai kwon do doing fighter,

he was the one sending me messages that I harassed and assaulted him!



Despite the fucking fact that I cant even reach his fucking face to damage them, he's attempting to get me to pay for his glasses that he claimes I 'broke'. He was also making sounds about a broken nose.

It's all fucking ridiculous.

But yeah. With physical violence you have to be sooo soooo carefull.

It's sad that the one time I defended myself I might be the one to get into trouble.



So watch your step.

What happened with your ex?

You should've defended yourself by removing his balls.

quote:Originally posted by yoyobek:



It's really difficult.

Ofcourse, as you hit him, he had every right to defend him, and if that fight had gone further and the law got involved, as much as it sucks, he could claim that you were the one that attacked him and that he was merely defending himself.



Pfft...if the law gets involved, it was automatically rape.

quote:Originally posted by Xiao Mei:

My husband has hit me before...And he shouldn't have done it, but I wouldn't leave him over it. It's not that simple, I mean people would say to me, "OMG leave him!" But how am I supposed to live the rest of my life without him? I think people who see it in those black and white terms have never been in love. Or at least they've never been in love where they would die without the person they love.

Wait wait wait... And you were telling me to leave my partner for lesser crimes than beating me?!?

What the fuck, Xiao!?!



People laugh at me for have being so obsessed with my partner, but you're beyond that.

It's something I'va had to find out the hard way, but there IS life outside caring for and loving some asshole who shows his thanks by cheating on you/hitting you/generally being a prick.



If you dont leave that asshole the very next time he hurts you, I'm going to come over there and kill him myself.

Fucking got it?

quote:Originally posted by noman01:

No, what I was saying is that prehaps if FK let this guy be a total dick to his girlfriend that one night, instead og slapping him and getting involved in his buisness, that prehaps the relationship between the abuser and attention seeker would have disbanded then, and the cheating would have never even mattered, in turn preventing the final outburst of violence towards the attention seeker.

That's ridiculous. Nothing anybody did made him act violent,and nothing would have prevented it.

I wanted him to stop because it was just us three at the hookah bar. And he was being quite rude to me, but she was the one crying. I also had to give them a ride home, and if you've ever been around those two when they're fighting, you understand.

... But you know who the guy in question is, right?

quote:Originally posted by Xiao Mei:

...how am I supposed to live the rest of my life without him? ...they've never been in love where they would die without the person they love.

Wow. You really need to talk to someone about that. That really can't be a fun way to live your life.

Oh, PS... Xiao Mei, it's called dependance.

Didn't you say he did it again recently?

quote:Originally posted by yoyobek:

Wait wait wait... And you were telling me to leave my partner for lesser crimes than beating me?!?

What the fuck, Xiao!?!



People laugh at me for have being so obsessed with my partner, but you're beyond that.

It's something I'va had to find out the hard way, but there IS life outside caring for and loving some asshole who shows his thanks by cheating on you/hitting you/generally being a prick.



If you dont leave that asshole the very next time he hurts you, I'm going to come over there and kill him myself.

Fucking got it?

I think the situations are different. On one hand, you have a sleazeball who rarely exhibits any caring(-ness) or love or anything like that. On the other, you have a devoted spouse who has been a wonderful guy for years and years. The first may not hit you, but he's not the sort you want to spend your life with. Not so much that he's criminal, just that he's... not nice. Not worth it. The second might lose his temper once or twice... but does that cancel years of a loving relationship? I don't think so. If my Special Someone attacked me, I would certainly forgive her. I would only leave if it wasn't just an isolated incident and she kept trying to hurt me.

quote:Originally posted by jimany:

Wow. You really need to talk to someone about that. That really can't be a fun way to live your life.



quote:Originally posted by firekitty751:

Oh, PS... Xiao Mei, it's called dependance.

Didn't you say he did it again recently?

It might just be me misinterpreting the situation, but I think you're all blowing it out of proportion.

Is it okay to hit your spouse? No. However, is it such a crime that it cancels out years of a loving and wonderful relationship? I don't think so. Everyone makes mistakes. The only unfixable mistakes are murders and the like, and I think that's a little beyond this. Have none of you ever lost your temper and done things you regret? Things you'd very much like to be forgiven for?

Nearly everyone gets into fights, too. My best friend and I once got into a fistfight. One time, in four years of friendship. He threw the first punch, but am I going to throw away my relationship? Of course not. We've had years of awesome friendship since then, years I would've missed out on if I had ditched him for it.

Only chronic abuse is a problem. If you'd leave your partner for one mistake, I'm not sure you really felt that much for them in the first place.

[This message has been edited by Twisted_Ferret (edited 11-07-2006).]

I don't think Xiao should have left him, or should leave him. I just think she's very dependant on him, and that's not healthy whether she's with him or not.

quote:Originally posted by firekitty751:

I don't think Xiao should have left him, or should leave him. I just think she's very dependant on him, and that's not healthy whether she's with him or not.

I thought you were saying that her reluctance to leave him was a sign of dependance. I think it's more a sign of love (and good sense). However, you might be referring to her comments about how she'd die without him etc.?

I, like firekitty, was just reffering to the lines where she said she could not live without him. I think it is a problem when a grown woman cannot fend for herself.

quote:Originally posted by Twisted_Ferret:

I thought you were saying that her reluctance to leave him was a sign of dependance. I think it's more a sign of love (and good sense). However, you might be referring to her comments about how she'd die without him etc.?

Sometimes two crazy people complete eachother, and deserve eachother.

A human can get used to an awfull lot if it's absolutely nescessary.

I was as obsessed and dependent on my ex as xiao is her husband.

I literally threw away everything for him, and sacrificed so much.



And now he's gone there's this huge gaping scary emptiness and it scares me. It really fucking scary.

But,I'll get used to it.



That's the scary thing about the human body, how ever much the emotional pain may hurt you, it will never kill you.

quote:Originally posted by firekitty751:

I also had to give them a ride home, and if you've ever been around those two when they're fighting, you understand.



No you didn't. If they were behaving badly then you should have told them to find their own ride home and left. Or...at most...called them a cab and paid for their fare home.

I am soooo dropping out of scene.

Peace.

quote:Originally posted by firekitty751:

That's ridiculous. Nothing anybody did made him act violent,and nothing would have prevented it.

I wanted him to stop because it was just us three at the hookah bar. And he was being quite rude to me, but she was the one crying. I also had to give them a ride home, and if you've ever been around those two when they're fighting, you understand.

... But you know who the guy in question is, right?

I have a pretty good feeling his name rhymes with pitcher ddddd?

quote:Originally posted by oc6:

No you didn't. If they were behaving badly then you should have told them to find their own ride home and left. Or...at most...called them a cab and paid for their fare home.



I wasn't going to let her walk through columbus alone at night, especially since she'd have to walk through the bad part to get to campus... and none of us had money for a cab, and it was 3am.

quote:Originally posted by Xiao Mei:

Originally posted by kAtE-:

Because its a form of weakness, on both yours and his part.

Your exactly the type of case I was describing in my last post. Each to their own but any man that hits you doesn't do it for your own good - and any man that hits you certainly doesn't do it as an act of love.

No he did it because he was mad!

But everyone is flawed and we all have weaknesses. He is a good husband in many ways, but he does have his bad points too, just like I do.



So everytime he gets mad do you have a little voice in your head that wonders if hes goning to strike you?

If you do then he has that emotional control over you from the first time he hit you.

I hope he felt like a big man, hitting someone thats physically TINY compared to him (this is based on what you've said about your size, and his).

I'd consider a violent husband more then just a 'bad point'.

quote:Originally posted by kAtE-:

So everytime he gets mad do you have a little voice in your head that wonders if hes goning to strike you?

If you do then he has that emotional control over you from the first time he hit you.

I hope he felt like a big man, hitting someone thats physically TINY compared to him (this is based on what you've said about your size, and his).

I'd consider a violent husband more then just a 'bad point'.

Yeah.

I mean, is he retarded? He's a grown fucking man and he acts like a spoilt toddler when he cant get what he wants and lashes out?

Well fuck that shit!



You may think the world will end without him, but it doesent, and it wont.



I'm not saying everything will be fine but atleast you'll be able to live your life without some nasty fucking asshole hitting you like you're a goddamn stressball.



I can totaly understand your willingness to stick with him. Even when my ex started staying out with other girls and hitting me, I tried my best to keep it together because I fucking loved him.



But there's a point where you cant take that shit anymore. You're a human too. There are decent men out there that *DONT* feel the need to hit the person that loves them and adores them.

I feel so empty and awfull without my ex. This appartment feels so huge and horrible.

But, he chose to leave,he's not dead, and I hve to cope with that, because he's never coming back to me.

The rain is pouring off the angular windows and it's glowy and warm in here. The guinea pigs continue to eat and squee in their cages.

As much as it may hurt, life is just going to go on around you regardless of what happens to you.

quote:Originally posted by kAtE-:

So everytime he gets mad do you have a little voice in your head that wonders if hes goning to strike you?

If you do then he has that emotional control over you from the first time he hit you.

I hope he felt like a big man, hitting someone thats physically TINY compared to him (this is based on what you've said about your size, and his).

I'd consider a violent husband more then just a 'bad point'.

....I think maybe I didn't explain myself properly or something! No I'm not scared of him, I mean he's hit me maybe 5 times in 9 years and he was always very sorry afterwards. I'm not saying it was okay for him to do it, but it's not like I quake with fear everytime he raises his voice. He is almost always very sweet and gentle with me. In fact, I don't believe he would ever really hurt me, not even after he hit me those times.

Once you commit to someone and marry them...You can't just bail anymore. You have to actually work things out, because those vows are forever.

And Yoyobek...Your boyfriend sucked for many reasons. He didn't pay attention to you and he didn't work! He treated you bad and then expected you to support him! My husband adores me...Just as much as I do him. No relationship is perfect and ours is still a work in progress.:P

[This message has been edited by Xiao Mei (edited 11-08-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by Xiao Mei:

....I think maybe I didn't explain myself properly or something! No I'm not scared of him, I mean he's hit me maybe 5 times in 9 years and he was always very sorry afterwards. I'm not saying it was okay for him to do it, but it's not like I quake with fear everytime he raises his voice. He is almost always very sweet and gentle with me. In fact, I don't believe he would ever really hurt me, not even after he hit me those times.

Once you commit to someone and marry them...You can't just bail anymore. You have to actually work things out, because those vows are forever.

I doubt he 'hit' you. Not as most men understand the word anyway. Or do you mean 'slapped'?

quote:Originally posted by Xiao Mei:

....I think maybe I didn't explain myself properly or something! No I'm not scared of him, I mean he's hit me maybe 5 times in 9 years and he was always very sorry afterwards. I'm not saying it was okay for him to do it, but it's not like I quake with fear everytime he raises his voice. He is almost always very sweet and gentle with me. In fact, I don't believe he would ever really hurt me, not even after he hit me those times.

Once you commit to someone and marry them...You can't just bail anymore. You have to actually work things out, because those vows are forever.

5 times? You let him get away with it FIVE TIMES????

After saying 'if he did it again...' in your earlier post.

God damn.. I ought to smack you with some femnazi shit.

quote:Originally posted by Xiao Mei:

....I think maybe I didn't explain myself properly or something! No I'm not scared of him, I mean he's hit me maybe 5 times in 9 years and he was always very sorry afterwards. I'm not saying it was okay for him to do it, but it's not like I quake with fear everytime he raises his voice. He is almost always very sweet and gentle with me. In fact, I don't believe he would ever really hurt me, not even after he hit me those times.

Once you commit to someone and marry them...You can't just bail anymore. You have to actually work things out, because those vows are forever.



Five times in nine years? Please tell me that was during the first five years, because if it wasn't then you're not working anything out.

quote:Originally posted by firekitty751:

I wasn't going to let her walk through columbus alone at night, especially since she'd have to walk through the bad part to get to campus... and none of us had money for a cab, and it was 3am.

You could've just given her a ride and left the guy... he's big enough to walk through that part of town... honestly not that scary... people make columbus out to be a lot more dangerous than it really is. I would've taken her, left him, and that entire action could have shown your disappointment in him with out physical violence and taken her away from the negative situation.

quote:Originally posted by noman01:

You could've just given her a ride and left the guy... he's big enough to walk through that part of town... honestly not that scary... people make columbus out to be a lot more dangerous than it really is. I would've taken her, left him, and that entire action could have shown your disappointment in him with out physical violence and taken her away from the negative situation.

I was going to reply to that, but you did a good enough job. Although, not drinking might be a good idea.

quote:Originally posted by jackketch:

I doubt he 'hit' you. Not as most men understand the word anyway. Or do you mean 'slapped'?

He slapped me, not punched. And he mostly did it in our first few years together. There has been just one time in the past 4 years.

quote:Originally posted by jackketch:

I doubt he 'hit' you. Not as most men understand the word anyway. Or do you mean 'slapped'?

That STILL doesn't make it right!