I've got a rule that I wait at least 10 minutes before replying to a text message from a girl, unless it's urgent

The reason I do so is because replying quickly to a text message seems desperate, if I text a girl and she replies within a minute or two it always strikes me that way

Does anybody else do that too?

i don't do those games. it often happens i take hours to realize i have one. if i know immediately, i respond when i'm ready.

it depends how long what I want to say takes to come to me. sometimes I'll think about it then end up doing something else. or I'll have work or whatever. Sometimes, it;s urgent, and I know just what to say. So yeah.

I do most of my seducing on msn anyway

....oh god I'm sad.

Text message mind games?

Lovely...

quote:Originally posted by Demoiselle:

Text message mind games?

If you call that a mind game, you've lived a sheltered life

Far from sheltered, cupcake. What difference does it make if you reply in 10 seconds or 10 minutes?

The fact that you consider it to be somewhat of a big deal... well, you're smart. It's, well, stupid.

I think that's dumb. It pisses me off when people don't reply to my texts right away (if I know that their phone is on). When I get a text, I reply right away too. Especially since pretty much the only person who texts me is my boyfriend, so I don't have to worry about looking desperate.

quote:Originally posted by Demoiselle:

Far from sheltered, cupcake. What difference does it make if you reply in 10 seconds or 10 minutes?

Replying in 10 seconds = clingy

quote:Originally posted by fullcircle:

Replying in 10 seconds = clingy

it's simply not the case

edit - the point is to not respond before you feel ready to. if it takes 10 minutes for you to feel ready, ok. it's just dumb to do it if you don't actually want to wait.

[This message has been edited by lauren7249 (edited 09-22-2006).]

That really is a game you're playing. If you feel like replying right away, then do so. It shouldn't be any more complicated than that.

quote:Originally posted by Sick_Boy:

It pisses me off when people don't reply to my texts right away

That's a secondary benefit, girls tend to make a big deal out of it when a guy doesn't reply straight away (or not reply at all).

You probably start wondering "why isn't he replying" etc, right?

But if you're having a "converstaion" in txt then why would you be annoying and wait for 10 minutes to reply to the person. You just sound like an ass

quote:Originally posted by pulsera:

But if you're having a "converstaion" in txt

I have conversations on the phone dumbass

quote:Originally posted by fullcircle:

I have conversations on the phone dumbass

You can have text conversations. I do that alot, actually, because I hate talking on the phone.

conversations are better left for the phone IMO, or, even better, in person. Know why?

TEXT CANT DISPLAY MOOD.

I have used text for conversations before, but only when necessary. I'd much rather talk on the phone or in person because without speach we lose the art of conversation.

Garfunkel, I'm the exact opposite. Text > phone > in person.

Anyway... I tend to wait to send someone an IM when they sign in on the computer, but with text messages I just send whenever I get the energy up to compose a message.

Reply when you have a reply, or the amount of time it takes you to notice/get to it. Who really gives a fuck how long that takes?

And, in person>text>phone.

quote:Originally posted by rabbitweed:





....oh god I'm sad.



I agree.

quote:Originally posted by jimany:

Who really gives a fuck how long that takes?

The girl who texted you

I have never sent a text message, and have never owned a cell phone.

Me > y'all

If you are rowing but you don't want to row texting is great. Otherwise it is crap. Though dirty texting is fun and more innocently naughty than simple dirty talk.

If I get a text, I reply as soon as I get it. This goes for any text I get, from male or female. It might take me five minutes to figure out how I want to say things, but I'll reply as soon as I do. It doesn't strike me as desperate when other people do that with me; I'm just happy to get a quick response.

Most times I reply in kind. If they reply quickly, so do I, if they don't, I don't. Pretty much just not being an ass, people tend to like a reply to something they ask decently quickly.

quote:Originally posted by Mr.Happy:

I'm just happy to get a quick response.

And that's why they call you Mr. Happy!

[This message has been edited by Twisted_Ferret (edited 09-22-2006).]

I have been trying to hold off on replying to messages from a girl i REALLY like in college, the whole if she messages you dont reply for so long, its going ok but im not sure what kind of efect its having onmy chances of getting with her.

I hate texting so I always just call them or tell them to call me.

But I see what you mean with the whole waiting thing. If I am responding, I usually give it a few minutes after I read it before I respond.

quote:Originally posted by among_the_living:

I have been trying to hold off on replying to messages from a girl i REALLY like in college, the whole if she messages you dont reply for so long, its going ok but im not sure what kind of efect its having onmy chances of getting with her.

Well try an experiment.

One on day, respond to her text messages instantly whenever you get them.

On another day, wait 5-10 minutes before responding to each text message.

Chances are you'll notice the following pattern if you repeat the experiment a few times:

- when you respond instantly, she'll tend to take longer responding back, and may be less enthusiastic (unless she's clingy)

- when you wait 5-10 minutes to respond, she'll tend to respond a lot faster and show more interest

And if you occasionally don't bother replying to a text message (but this has to be very OCCASIONAL), things will work even better.

This has been my experience.

Btw I've been told by more than one girl that when I don't reply to their text messages, it really agitates them and they keep wondering why I haven't replied yet.

This is a good thing. As long as you don't do it to the point where it ACTUALLY pisses them off. Finding the balance is an art.

quote:Originally posted by among_the_living:

I have been trying to hold off on replying to messages from a girl i REALLY like in college, the whole if she messages you dont reply for so long, its going ok but im not sure what kind of efect its having onmy chances of getting with her.

I done that once. I later found out the girl just thought I wasn't interested in her and gave up liking me.

i don't use my mobile that often. i tend to reply to texts when i've realised that i've gotten a message and i have something to say. if there's nothing to reply about, i won't reply.

i rarely message someone before they've messaged me. just not my thing. face to face conversations ftw.

[This message has been edited by NoSkills (edited 09-23-2006).]

When I see it, I reply. I don't bother playing with people. If we're both interested, then I'd rather communicate than toy with one another.

quote:Originally posted by Euda:

If we're both interested, then I'd rather communicate than toy with one another.

You and me both. Unfortunately that's not how most people function.

quote:Originally posted by rabbitweed:

I done that once. I later found out the girl just thought I wasn't interested in her and gave up liking me.

Either you waited too long between text messages, or she didn't like you enough in the first place. No offense.

quote:Originally posted by fullcircle:

Unfortunately, that's not how most people function.

I can't argue too loud.

How long do you figure is too long, if you're playing for aggrivated confusion?

Edit: I just don't think I could do it. I wouldn't be bothered to wait if I wanted to talk.

[This message has been edited by Euda (edited 09-23-2006).]

I hate text messaging. I only use it when someone else text msgs me and I have no other choice but to use that form of communication.

Otherwise, I just straight up call them back and say "So, what's up?"

quote:Originally posted by Euda:

How long do you figure is too long, if you're playing for aggrivated confusion?

Personally, 5-10 minutes depending on how interesting the subject matter is. But never less than 5.

This thread is stupid. fullcircle is pretending like he has awesome baller skillz when it comes to women, but he doesn't. Shut the fuck up.

quote:Originally posted by DuckWarri0r:

This thread is stupid. fullcircle is pretending like he has awesome baller skillz when it comes to women, but he doesn't. Shut the fuck up.



If you're going to flame me, come up with something more original than that generic two-bit analysis dipshit

Yea I guess I struck a nerve with that '2 bit analysis'. You know I never analysed shit, I just read your posts and it's clearly obvious you fail at life. You lack anything to analyse, idiot.

quote:Originally posted by DuckWarri0r:

I never analysed shit, I just read your posts

and pulled a weak reply straight out of your ass.

quote:Originally posted by fullcircle:

and pulled a weak reply straight out of your ass.

Booo fucking hoo. You have been called out for failing at life and textual relationships and you know that you fail at them. Please address these facts before you call my reply weak, you fucking shitpumpkin.

quote:Originally posted by DuckWarri0r:

Booo fucking hoo. You have been called out for failing at life and textual relationships and you know that you fail at them.

Those insults would be a whole shitload more effective if you gave any supporting arguments. Instead you just assert them. Weak, weak, weak little pussy.

quote:Please

At least you show me proper respect. Bitch.

[This message has been edited by fullcircle (edited 09-23-2006).]

They're not insults, they're observations. Seriously.

'replying quickly to a text message seems desperate'

'Replying in 10 seconds = clingy'

'girls tend to make a big deal out of it when a guy doesn't reply straight away'

'You probably start wondering "why isn't he replying" '

'when you respond instantly, she'll tend to take longer responding back, and may be less enthusiastic (unless she's clingy)'

'when you wait 5-10 minutes to respond, she'll tend to respond a lot faster and show more interest'

'And if you occasionally don't bother replying to a text message (but this has to be very OCCASIONAL), things will work even better.'

What shit advice, but more than being shit, is self assured and a completely common sense explanation of things. Maybe make some supporting arguments for all the bullshit you've spouted in this thread, huh?

quote:Originally posted by DuckWarri0r:

fullcircle is pretending like he has awesome baller skillz when it comes to women, but he doesn't.

What's that feeling you get when, for instance, someone says to a Vietnam vet: "Man, you don't know what war is LIKE!"? Because I'm definitely feeling it right now.

i hate everyone

I agree with Duck (to an extent). fullcircle has no idea what he is doing, but I think he really believes his game is working for him. Just thought I should include my 2 cents...

Text messages are fucking retarded. If it's so important, call? If it's just some fucking small detail, don't?

If it's really important, meet in person and talk?

What did people before SMS? Oh yes, they interacted in person!

quote:Originally posted by Twisted_Ferret:

What's that feeling you get when, for instance, someone says to a Vietnam vet: "Man, you don't know what war is LIKE!"? Because I'm definitely feeling it right now.

Yea, and fullcircle sounds like a Vietnam vet talking about how they used NERF bow and arrows to repel charlie.

Wait, what are you guys even arguing about? It's odd, I'm a really argumentative person, but I never see the point doing it on messageboards.

Arguing on message boards is the shit. I can lose poker on one monitor and be angry at people on the other.

quote:Originally posted by rabbitweed:

Wait, what are you guys even arguing about? It's odd, I'm a really argumentative person, but I never see the point doing it on messageboards.

Errmmm sir! It's commonly know as a "difference of opinion". People often decide to engage in "keyboard warrior" type epic combat as the internet shielding them. While most of us realize a "difference of opinion" can teach both parties something, many take it as a chance to hurl juvenile insults.

You dirty hippy.

quote:Originally posted by DuckWarri0r:

You dirty hippy.

STFU, we've already established that you're a virgin.

Posting pics of chicks does not prove that you are not a virgin.

Just an FYI.

I reply almost instantly to anyone.. as long as I'm not busy. Otherwise, I tend to forget I got the message at all.

quote:Originally posted by Orange_Crusader:

Most times I reply in kind. If they reply quickly, so do I, if they don't, I don't. Pretty much just not being an ass, people tend to like a reply to something they ask decently quickly.

amen, I usually respnd quickly.

Yesterday I texted someone I was making plans with for tonight. They took 15 minutes to respond, so did I :-P even though I was bored at work haha

quote:Originally posted by HandOfZek:

I have never sent a text message, and have never owned a cell phone.

Me > y'all

Me too...Text messaging sounds like it sux.

If I get a text I just reply whenever I'm not busy. There's no need to wait some arbitrary 15 minutes or follow some prescribed plan of holding off the answer until x amount of time passes due to y and z variables in the content of the message. Really, what's the point? I feel mildly annoyed when I'm texting and it takes the other person forever to respond. I'm not going to bother paying attention to them if I have to wait 20 mins to get a response. By that time I'm already doing something else so I'll have forgotten whatever it was I was attempting to talk to them about in the first place.

People need to calm the fuck down and stop analyzing everything, and stop trying to play stupid fucking mindgames all the time. What benefits does it provide? None. You wasted an hour doing what could've been done in 5 mins. Nice job. Anyone worth having wouldn't be so insecure that they need to play mindgames with you in order for you to not find them clingy. If they aren't clingy in person, they aren't going to seem clingy over a text. Fuck what a waste of time.

quote:Originally posted by gadzooks:

STFU, we've already established that you're a virgin.

Posting pics of chicks does not prove that you are not a virgin.

Just an FYI.

Who the fuck are you.

quote:Originally posted by DuckWarri0r:

Who the fuck are you.

That is irrelevant.

All that matters is that you tried to prove that you weren't a virgin by posting a picture of some chick.

That does not prove that you aren't a virgin.

I hope you brought me an apple because I'm about to take you to school, even though you have the charm and relevance of an infected ingrown anal hair. I'll break things down for you piece by piece in the ludicrously optomistic hope that you'll manage to comprehend your oblivious stupidity.

quote:Originally posted by DuckWarri0r:

They're not insults, they're observations. Seriously.

srsly?

Do you have trouble following the course of a dialogue? THESE were insults, to refresh your puny memory:

quote:I just read your posts and it's clearly obvious you fail at life.

quote: You have been called out for failing at life and textual relationships



Those are obviously nothing other than insults. Be that as it may, tell me something - what the fuck is a "textual relationship" by the way? I'll be charitable and pretend that you meant "textual interaction", instead of bringing attention to the fact that you obviously have so little experience with actual human contact that you'd say something so idiotic. Whoops, I just did that, well I'm a prick so sue me.

However you attempt to justify your insults as being "observations", based on the following:

quote:'replying quickly to a text message seems desperate'

'Replying in 10 seconds = clingy'

'girls tend to make a big deal out of it when a guy doesn't reply straight away'

'You probably start wondering "why isn't he replying" '

'when you respond instantly, she'll tend to take longer responding back, and may be less enthusiastic (unless she's clingy)'

'when you wait 5-10 minutes to respond, she'll tend to respond a lot faster and show more interest'

'And if you occasionally don't bother replying to a text message (but this has to be very OCCASIONAL), things will work even better.'

Now all that you've done is quote a few of my comments in this thread. Is this an argument justifying your "observations"? I ask because the only other text in your post resembles an argument in the same way that a steaming pile freshly laid dog shit resembles chocolate souffle.

quote:What shit advice, but more than being shit, is self assured and a completely common sense

explanation of things.

Do you even know what you're arguing, you cretin?

You were attempting to justify your claims that I "fail at life" and am just "pretending like" I have "awesome baller skillz".

Instead you simply fart out the comment that my advice is "shit". I'm blown away! Spare me from any more of your razor sharp wit! But no, there's more to come

It's also "self assured". No shit Sherlock, what the fuck is wrong with that?

And it's also "a completely common sense explanation of thing". Again, no shit! Do you prefer explanations that defy common sense, you fucking inbred knuckle dragger?

quote:Maybe make some supporting arguments for all the bullshit you've spouted in this thread, huh?

Maybe I wasn't delivering a lecture. Maybe... just maybe... I started this thread to see other people's perspectives on the subject and reaction to it... Jesus, yes, maybe that's why I made a conversational thread in a discussion forum.

Now fuck off and tell your mother to get back on the street and make me some money.

[This message has been edited by fullcircle (edited 09-23-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by fullcircle:

You and me both. Unfortunately that's not how most people function.

Why would you want to deal with ignorant children? To take advantage of their weak spirit? Or is it to gain company for your own weak soul?

quote:Originally posted by Hexadecimal:

Why would you want to deal with ignorant children?

The majority of girls I meet function this way, do you get out much?

quote:To take advantage of their weak spirit? Or is it to gain company for your own weak soul?

Turn down the pretentious dial a notch or two, k?

I stay FAR away from girls that would rather text me all damn night than call me and tell me where I can meet her so we can a have a conversation, you know, face to face (which also has the advantage of being FREE).

I swear, myspace and text messages are the beginning of the end for face to face conversation.

quote:Originally posted by gadzooks:

That is irrelevant.

All that matters is that you tried to prove that you weren't a virgin by posting a picture of some chick.

That does not prove that you aren't a virgin.

But sir, I can prove I've had teh secks by posting chick pix 2. lyk omgz lollersk8s n roflcopterz

http://www.worth1000.com/web/media/70470/chick.jpg

See!!!! proof

quote:Originally posted by RogueWarheart:

But sir, I can prove I've had teh secks by posting chick pix 2. lyk omgz lollersk8s n roflcopterz http://www.worth1000.com/web/media/70470/chick.jpg

See!!!! proof

hay shiz mi gurlfreng i got hur wit mi ballerskilz now i fite u

quote:Originally posted by fullcircle:

hay shiz mi gurlfreng i got hur wit mi ballerskilz now i fite u

lawl!!1

Ahh. Mocking the totse kidiot population.

quote:Originally posted by fullcircle:

Turn down the pretentious dial a notch or two, k?

I get out plenty; that's why I'm quite familiar with what you do - you play games to get girls who play games in turn...a liking towards discord, in other words. Pussy over passion, if you will.

And I'm operating on no assumptions.

my phone rings, i answer it. my phone has a text, i answer it.

quote:Originally posted by Hexadecimal:

I get out plenty; that's why I'm quite familiar with what you do - you play games to get girls who play games in turn...a liking towards discord, in other words. Pussy over passion, if you will.

We all have a natural tendency to avoid clinginess. Responding instantly to text messages, to some, can portray clinginess.

Also, we all have a natural tendency to want what we can't have. If someone (or something) is easy to come, then it is seen as easy to let go.

It's not directed at certain types, this type of advice relates to everyone. Unless you function on some higher plane where you are completely aware of your negative psychological tendencies... Even if that were the case, the chances are pretty slim that you will come accross other such people.

It's a battle you cannot win.

If you're to fast in response, you're clingy.

If you wait, you don't care.

quote:Originally posted by DuckWarri0r:

Arguing on message boards is the shit. I can lose poker on one monitor and be angry at people on the other.



hi five!

*steals poker chips*

quote:Originally posted by Hexadecimal:

you play games to get girls who play games in turn...a liking towards discord, in other words. Pussy over passion, if you will.

The thing is, I've only met a handful of girls who are straightforward and open with a guy when attraction is involved, fortunately I'm involved with one of them at the moment (although things are less than perfect, but that's another matter).

I don't like having to use my head in situations that should only involve my heart. I wish the world was different. But you know what they say - wish in one hand, shit in the other, and see which one fills up first.

So fine, being strategic is one of the rules of attraction, it's annoying but it hardly ruins my life. It's only necessary in the preliminary stages anyway, later on such bullshit becomes irrelevant.

But you only become that intimate with a few people in your life. And that's not such a bad thing really, you know why? Because that's why it's precious, when things get to the point of involving REAL feelings and REAL intimacy. You have to work to achieve it, it's not something that's just shared with anyone who meets some minimum standard the way a whore spreads her legs for anyone with 50 bucks in their pocket. People who fall in love easily, and fall out of love easily, there is little meaning when they say "I love you". Those people cheapen the meaning of love.

Bottom line - I think it's ridiculous for anyone to criticise me over something as insignificant as restraining myself from immediately replying to a girl's text message. Attraction and sexual pursuit IS A GAME, anyone who claims otherwise is fucking full of shit. That DOESN'T trivialise the emotional integrity of it, it just means that it works a certain way, and you have to know how to play the game if you want to play it. Before some idiot says this has anything to do with being a "player", it doesn't, "players" are people who play the game without ANY interest in the emotional side of things. After a certain point the game ends, when things have developed from simple attraction to having genuine feelings for the other person. "Players" don't care about things going this far, but they just happen to be a certain type of person who understand how the game works.

Fuck anyone who pretends that it's not how things work, either you're deluded or you don't have any goddamn experience of what you're talking about.

quote:Originally posted by fullcircle:

Fuck anyone who pretends that it's not how things work, either you're deluded or you don't have any goddamn experience of what you're talking about.

A-FUCKING-MEN.

It doesn't always have to be a game... When my husband and I first started dating, he NEVER played games with me and I loved him for his sincerity. He asked me to stay with him every night, even before we were sleeping together. After only four months he asked me to marry him and I (of course:P) said yes and one week later we were married.

I guess it depends on what you're after/looking for in your relationships...And also what you find.

FC, you're always going to have to use your head - but the heart, mind, and body should serve the soul. If you want to talk to a girl - talk to a girl. There's NO benefit of playing games, even relatively benign ones, because whether you play for clingy or play for detatched, you're ruling out half the field by using tactics. When relying on the sincerity of desire alone, your mind is your servant: something you engage when it helps to foster the fulfillment of desire.

Girls that REALLY respond to something like the waiting game are completely impatient when it comes to fulfilling their desires; the type of crazy bitch who wants to marry you 3 days after you meet, ya know? (exagerrated a bit for the point)...If you're willing to deal with psychotic levels of attatchment before your end of the relationship has yet to find its footing, go for it; but I've yet to see any benefits come from games.

In response to gadzooks: Also, we all have a natural tendency to want what we can't have.

Only the insane - self-punishment is something adults AVOID. And letting go of something easily doesn't demean its value whatsoever - if anything, it shows the individual has a healthy understanding of 'living in the moment'.

Unless you function on some higher plane where you are completely aware of your negative psychological tendencies... Even if that were the case, the chances are pretty slim that you will come accross other such people.

It's not about finding people in the same place in life you are: it's about respecting where they are and being willing to grow with them, even if the starting points are different and the ending points will likely be different. Discovery is one of the biggest reasons to operate once life passes from the phase of the dead spirit to the whole spirit...just because your spirit is strong enough that you know 'how to live your own life', doesn't mean you don't welcome those who are still trying to figure it out for themselves - you still want to see where life will take you, who will enter into it, what happenings will occur, when shit's going down, and why it all happens. It's just that once your spirit is strong, you don't SEEK those answers out, you live in accordance with your own soul and wait for the results.

quote:Originally posted by Hexadecimal:

Girls that REALLY respond to something like the waiting game are

quote:

girl [gurl]

–noun

1. a female child, from birth to full growth.

2. a young, immature woman, esp. formerly, an unmarried one.

3. a daughter: My wife and I have two girls.

4. Informal (sometimes offensive). a grown woman, esp. when referred to familiarly: She's having the girls over for bridge next week.

5. girlfriend; sweetheart.

6. Often Offensive. a female servant.

7. Usually Offensive. a female employee.

8. a female who is from or native to a given place: She's a Missouri girl.

9. completely impatient when it comes to fulfilling their desires

I was homing in on definition #2 and the immaturity.

And glad ya have a sense of humor, hehe.

Edit: OMG! A typo.

[This message has been edited by Hexadecimal (edited 09-24-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by Hexadecimal:

Only the insane - self-punishment is something adults AVOID. And letting go of something easily doesn't demean its value whatsoever - if anything, it shows the individual has a healthy understanding of 'living in the moment'.

The lure of the "forbidden fruit" is a well-documented and common psychological tendency.

quote:Originally posted by Twisted_Ferret:

Originally posted by Hexadecimal:

Only the insane - self-punishment is something adults AVOID. And letting go of something easily doesn't demean its value whatsoever - if anything, it shows the individual has a healthy understanding of 'living in the moment'.

The lure of the "forbidden fruit" is a well-documented and common psychological tendency.

You think insane only applies to people with straight out brain issues, don't you? I mean the technical definition of recurring behavior with the expectation of different results: Only the insane or those who enjoy self-punishment fall prey to the 'forbidden fruit'. I won't be rich because I'm not willing to give up what I have to in order to be rich, I won't have 6 women because I won't give up what I have to for that, I can't have a BMW Z-4 because I won't work for the money necessary, and I won't steal one...I've thought all of those would be cool to have, but I don't actually WANT them, because I'm not a tool that enjoys self-inflicted pain or fruitless efforts: forbidden fruit attracts the weak of spirit.

Soul controls mind, which controls heart and body. Once your soul is awakened, you're no longer a product of environment, but an influence on environment.

quote:Originally posted by Sick_Boy:

You can have text conversations. I do that alot, actually, because I hate talking on the phone.

Agree.

quote:Originally posted by fullcircle:

I hope you brought me an apple because I'm about to take you to school, even though you have the charm and relevance of an infected ingrown anal hair. I'll break things down for you piece by piece in the ludicrously optomistic hope that you'll manage to comprehend your oblivious stupidity.

Maybe I wasn't delivering a lecture. Maybe... just maybe... I started this thread to see other people's perspectives on the subject and reaction to it... Jesus, yes, maybe that's why I made a conversational thread in a discussion forum.

Now fuck off and tell your mother to get back on the street and make me some money.



YHBTHAND.

quote:Originally posted by gadzooks:

That is irrelevant.

All that matters is that you tried to prove that you weren't a virgin by posting a picture of some chick.

That does not prove that you aren't a virgin.

That was a a picture of a chick I banged, who gives a shit. Why are you blathering about this?

I usually reply to text messages within seconds, leaving people wondering how it was even possible to reply so fast. This is habit more than anything, and I would do the same thing with a girl I liked, a friend or an O2 treat!

However, I despise girls who complain about me not replying immediately. When Im stoned I will sometimes listen to the full song set as my ringtone.

As for text conversations, a useful thing is using the excuse that credit ran out/batteries died, when needs be.