If your dad hit you properly, what would you think of him?

I mean a proper mansized punch not the 'tough-love' bitch slap but a full on jaw breaking haymaker of punch with anger behind it?

The reason i ask is today i once again caught my eldest (17) stealing from me. He stole about $30 worth of tobacco.

I almost lost it and came very very close to landing him one. Maybe i should have done but he's my kid and i'm aware of the damage i can unitentionally do (last time i tried i could still split a fresh coconut with the side of my hand).

It just pisses me off so much. Not so much the stealing (hell i was a thief for years)but the fact he thinks me so slow of wit that i won't notice ..or even worse he just doesn't give a flying fuck.

I would be piss scared of him.

I think it would certainly harm the relationship, for a while at least. That said me and my da have fought properly before, and it didn't really change anything.

if my dad tried to hit me, i wold fight back, i know i would lose, but i still wont take it without a fight.

I'd probably duck.

Edit: But saying the hit landed? I'd probably tackle him, I'm a better wrestler than I am a hitter.

[This message has been edited by Win A Free Ipod (edited 09-16-2006).]

being a seventeen year old myself this is how it would go



he wouldn't understand why you hit him and would blame it all on you, making him the victim even though he instigated the encounter.



your best bet is to make him pay for the tobacco. if my dad did that to me i would stop stealing from him

Nah hitting them doesnt work anymore it just pises them off makes them columbine etc.

Be a serious man about it. Like take the 30 out of his allowence or paycheck or hell if hes got money in his room just go in while hes in there and fucking take it. He tries to stop you slap him out and tell him whats up.

Thatd sure teach me.

But what my dad did when he caught me taking his stuff was just yell and take it back and then be an asshole for a while.

But I stand by my Idea.

After that if he does it again yes that would be justified (hiting him) just dont kill him.

-Synkk-

If my stepdad had hit me (I was living with him for many of my teenage years, so I guess that's a more appropriate example than my actual dad) I'd have lost a lot of respect for him. Parents should be able to resolve this kind of thing without resorting to violence (however tempting that may be ).

Although, even though you shouldn't, he so deserves a smack for stealing for you.

Nagasaki911, Synkk, he gets enough money a month (£100 =nearly $200) and i do make him pay back anything he steals. Doesn't seem to work though.

And the 'he would feel the victim' is what i'm worried about.

it took less than a proper hit from my dad for me to completely stop talking to him and to move out of his house. I went about nearly two years without talking to my dad, to this day I cannot consider him a father in any way.

in my whole life my dad only hit me with his fist 1 time...it was all it took,i was 16 and had went missing for 2 weeks,came home he met me at the door and punched me square in the face,told me if i couldnt act like a part of his family then i wasnt welcome at his home...didnt see him or most of my family for 6 years...we get along great now,but at the time i hated him..now i'm older and can understand why he did it,and why he was so strict while i was growing up,he wanted his kids to be respectful and good people,Jack i really wouldnt worry about what your son thinks about you..at 17 he knows he is wrong for stealing from you,a good wack to the head may wake him up.

quote:Originally posted by Win A Free Ipod:

I'd probably duck.

Edit: But saying the hit landed? I'd probably tackle him, I'm a better wrestler than I am a hitter.





My kids aren't insane enough to try and fight me...not yet anyway. I suppose one day Eldest might take a swing at me.

Yea, I would have to beat his ass, I wouldnt think twice about attacking my step dad. He may be alot bigger then me, but hes a slow ass fuck.

quote:Originally posted by jackketch:

Nagasaki911, Synkk, he gets enough money a month (£100 =nearly $200) and i do make him pay back anything he steals. Doesn't seem to work though.

And the 'he would feel the victim' is what i'm worried about.

beat his ass.

Make him pay back twice as much.

Does he view it as stealing?

Have you spoken with him about it?

Well My step dad hit me a few times. Then when he did it again and I was 14 I kicked his ass. It was a constant beef in my house.

To be honest I still don't really like or respect him.He just got beat enough that he learnt his place.

To clear this up, my familys pretty fucked.

My step dad was a crack head and would usually try to start shit when i wouldnt get him drugs. He'd try to kick me outta the house 'n shit.

My mom used to be a crackwhore(literally), my real dad caught her sucking some guys dick for blow, thats why they are divorced.

They basically treat my stepdads kids like gold and me like shit.

My moms trying to take control of the trust fund my dad left for me.

Anyway to get back on track, If i was your son(even though I'm not a thief) and I was caught stealing and my dad beat the shit outta me, I'd fight back, but whatever way the fight went my dad would have earned more respect.

So I think it'd be understandable if you hit him and were like: "If your going to keep stealing from me, get the fuck out of my house and support yourself". or something like that

quote:Originally posted by Jackketchs Muse:

What would hitting him accomplish that anything else wouldn't? What are the risks of hitting him?

I don't think hitting is ever a good thing to do, but you know your son best...and you should know what his reaction should be.

Sometimes it might be good to do something completely unexpected though. Maybe...you're too predictable a father?

(btw...I though my mom was shit for hitting me...but...I rarely deserved it, as I recall...that might be how he recalls it too??? Should it happen, that is. )

Who are you? Are you Jakketech's wife? Are you the mother of said child? I mean really let's clear that up, because reading your posts is retarded since you live with the guy you are responding to? Anyone else feel there is no point since she can just say her post and he'll hear it since he's right next to her?

Anyways, don't hit your kid. It is a bitch move on your part, and makes you look like a complete asshole. You are a grown man hitting a child, and to me are just as much of a dick if you were to hit a woman. 17 year old is the same as a woman, physically that is. A grown man has an unfair advantage.

If you really want him to stop stealing, fucking man up and give him what he wants. He wants you to notice him stealing, he is doing it for a reason. He isn't doing it because he wants $30 worth of tobacco. Probably because you don't give him attention, he feels you are neglecting him in some way. Good luck finding out what it is, until you are able to communicate with your kids, you'll always be an asshole to them.

Coming from a kid who's been hit full force by his dad (I am 17 at the moment), its not a good idea. One, you'll just make you're kid more violent in regular daily life. I'm pretty violent, but since my mum and I just moved back with my dad full time, I've been working on my temper (especially since its a huge, beautiful home, and I do realize that my parents have to maintain/pay for it so I'm not gonna break anything).

Second, if you try to hit your kid, trust me, you won't make full contact, when you're pissed at him and you're reprimanding him or yelling, he'll be on his toes, and be able to stop atleast some of the blow. Also, I doubt you'll hit him full force (you most likely will slow down as you get closer to whatever your hitting, because I do know that you do love your kids), but he'll get just as pissed as if you hit him full on.

Then of course, he'll try to take you on. He'll probably lose, but it doesn't matter, at least he'll try to put you in some pain, and thats his goal. Its instinct to show that you can stand up to him to some extent. When my dad hit me once, I went at him as hard as I could, and he was in pain for a while, and I permenately hurt his hip, and its a reminder that I will retaliate. But that ended with me on the ground with him punching/cracking my ribs and royally messing up my back, and of course I threw up because I was crying so hard.

:::EDIT:::

To CarbonBs argument:

I wouldn't give my kid what he was stealing, and I definately know that if my parents caught me stealing and gave it to me, I'd be one bitch kid. Thats seriously the worst thing to do, you are the parent and you are there to raise your child to be functional in life, not to hand him whatever he wants. Give a child an inch and they'll demand a mile.

Ketch, my solution would be to confinscate all of his money, and keep it until he has worked for you for the amount he had stolen. Then tell him, if you want to smoke, thats fine, because I do, and I realize I'd be a hypocrite if I told you you wouldn't be allowed. But, you have to BUY your own, and if you WANT any of mine, I'll bum you some. But if you ever steal from me again, I'll freeze your money again, and you won't be able to get ANYTHING.

[This message has been edited by met_B_A_N_S (edited 09-16-2006).]

That doesnt seem like a very good reason to punch him...

Me and my mom both smoke. If I run out, i'll grab a pack of hers. And every now and then she'll send me to the store to pick up a carton anyways. I dont really consider it stealing. It's just sharing.

I could understand if it was money or something, or he was stealing shit out of your room to pawn off. Then, by all means...lay into him.

But just for tobacco, that seems a bit much. Thats what kids do. It's not uncommon for kids to sneak a bottle of their parents liqour, or in this case...tobacco. I mean he's 17. It's not like he can go buy them.

If theres more to it, and he's stealing other shit instead, then maybe you're justified. But not for tobacco man :\

If I were you, I'd just take double what he stole back in the form of cash.

When I was a kid I was never bad enough to get one of those. But if I had deserved it I would fear but respect my dad.

My sister however is the same age as your boy and she thieves off of my old man all the time.

He bitches and moans about it but never really does anything but give her presents in the hope she will shape up.

Hence she is still a layabout theif with a criminal record, is on her last police warning and has a history of drug and alcohol abuse.

I wish he would have given her a punch in the head years ago and maybe she would have learned some damn respect!

But yeah...If I had done something worthy of my dad lumping me one, I'd be pissed off, fear his wrath yet respect him.

quote:Originally posted by CarbonB:

Who are you? Are you Jakketech's wife? Are you the mother of said child? I mean really let's clear that up, because reading your posts is retarded since you live with the guy you are responding to? Anyone else feel there is no point since she can just say her post and he'll hear it since he's right next to her?

Anyways, don't hit your kid. It is a bitch move on your part, and makes you look like a complete asshole. You are a grown man hitting a child, and to me are just as much of a dick if you were to hit a woman. 17 year old is the same as a woman, physically that is. A grown man has an unfair advantage.

If you really want him to stop stealing, fucking man up and give him what he wants. He wants you to notice him stealing, he is doing it for a reason. He isn't doing it because he wants $30 worth of tobacco. Probably because you don't give him attention, he feels you are neglecting him in some way. Good luck finding out what it is, until you are able to communicate with your kids, you'll always be an asshole to them.

Man, calm down if his wife/girlfriend/roomate or whatever wants to post on totse let her, its not affecting you negatively, let it go.

And as far as hitting a 17 year old being like hitting a woman? Uhm, no, unless the kids a bitch its not the case.I've seen 15-17 year olds beat the shit outta there old man clean. Naturally You're at your physcial peak from 18-25 roughly.

I also doubt that his kids just stealing money for attention. Its a possibilty, but its more likely he wants the extra cash for some reason.

How buff are you?

And isn't the eldest the faggy mallgoth?

Just hit it, and make him write about it in his diary. Fag-boy.

quote:Originally posted by CarbonB:

Who are you? Are you Jakketech's wife? Are you the mother of said child? I mean really let's clear that up, because reading your posts is retarded since you live with the guy you are responding to? Anyone else feel there is no point since she can just say her post and he'll hear it since he's right next to her?

She doesn't live with him.

Punch him back. I'm bigger than my dad anyway so he wouldn't.

quote:Originally posted by SilentMind:

...tobacco. I mean he's 17. It's not like he can go buy them.

I.

He can here (16 is the legal age ).Or he can buy them off me at black market prices (50% cheaper than the shops.)

I have to say after reading this thread title I'm glad you didn't actually hit him.

He's 17, I say your eldest is old enough to leave home...

My dad hit me one time in my life, and I simply said without even blinking "My mom hits harder than you". They have been divorced since I was 2.

Its really not a big deal for most people to get smacked around a bit.

Edit:

Even a real hardcore punch aint that bad, unless your kid is a pussy.

If you knocked him out, you would probably go to jail, again, unless your kid is a pussy.

A punch is a punch. Its a few seconds of pain and its over.

[This message has been edited by streetjusticeforall (edited 09-16-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by jackketch:

Nagasaki911, Synkk, he gets enough money a month (£100 =nearly $200) and i do make him pay back anything he steals. Doesn't seem to work though.

And the 'he would feel the victim' is what i'm worried about.



Make him pay back double then. And that's a pretty nice allowance, so it's ok to make it hurt(in his pocket, not his jaw).

Edit-Just read through more of the thread, two people already suggested it. Yea, if you think about it, you have control over him because you feed him/give him money, therefore you can cut off something you do for him for a certain amount of time and he will remember what you do for him, and that he took it for granted. That's how my parents get me to do stuff.

[This message has been edited by Runaway_Stapler (edited 09-16-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by CarbonB:

Who are you? Are you Jakketech's wife? Are you the mother of said child? I mean really let's clear that up, because reading your posts is retarded since you live with the guy you are responding to? Anyone else feel there is no point since she can just say her post and he'll hear it since he's right next to her?



It is possible to be someone's muse and not live in the same house...or in her case, not even in the same country as me.

But i'm guessing you think 'muse' is english for 'biaaatch' anyway... :P

I'd get back up, hit him back, and not stop hitting him until he couldn't ever hit me again.

Jack, don't expect the same from your kid, though, as he sounds like a normal pussy teenager.

The best you could expect would be for him to go call the police. But hey, that makes the dipshit go away, eh?

But yeah, I don't like being touched. :

I'm very close to my daddy. If he were to ever strike me out of anger, I think it would definitely fuck things up between us for a very long time. My dad has hit me many times throughout my life, but never out of anger.

If my dad hit me, I would knock him the fuck out. It's as simple as that. Neither of my parents have ever hit me, and I would never expect it from either of them.

If my dad hit me, I would react the same way I would if anyone else hit me. Really, really badly.

My dad's hit me many times, and yeah, I'm piss scared of him.

If my father wanted to fight me it would go poorly. I wouldn't want to hurt his ego and he might decide to go for the kill rather than lose.

He has never raised his hand to me. I wouldn't respect him for it, but it wouldn't lower my opinion of him either.

I respond to reason better than anything physical, but there are people that only respond to violence. I had to tune on a womanbeater yesterday because he wouldn't listen to reason. There are times where you are left with no decent alternatives.

How long has this been going on for? What sorts of things has he stolen from you?

quote:Originally posted by Drips:

Man, calm down if his wife/girlfriend/roomate or whatever wants to post on totse let her, its not affecting you negatively, let it go.

And as far as hitting a 17 year old being like hitting a woman? Uhm, no, unless the kids a bitch its not the case.I've seen 15-17 year olds beat the shit outta there old man clean. Naturally You're at your physcial peak from 18-25 roughly.

I also doubt that his kids just stealing money for attention. Its a possibilty, but its more likely he wants the extra cash for some reason.



Don't tell me what to do you wet cunt. You really think a 17 year old and a 30 year old are on even ground fighting? I don't give a fuck if you've seen a 12 year old beat up a grown man. The difference is age, and the difference between a 17 year old and a woman isn't much.

Most guys don't fully mature until they are in their 20's. Even then it is obvious to tell an advantage of man and a boy. 17 is a boy. Hitting one is a bitch move, that is like me hitting a 15 year old. I would look like a little bitch for whooping a 15 year olds ass.

He needs the money for something? Yea he is selling the $30 worth of tobacco on the black market for drugs.....god you are stupid.

quote:Originally posted by jackketch:

If your dad hit you properly, what would you think of him?





I would think "geez, what a hardass." *put back $30 worth of tobacco*

But at 17, I think he'd try and fight back since you'd get him in all a rage. As long as he doesn't win, I think it'd only benefit the relationship. You're still the dominant figure in that household and it's your motherfuckin house. Not like you're coming home drunk and beatinh him with a belt, you caught him stealing form you and you beat his ass cause you were mad. He would respect you for being such a badass dad.

Yea, I don't know about hitting him in the face, but pushing and a confrontation would be in order.

If you got in his face and told him what would happen if you weren't his dad and someone caugh t him stealing they would whoop his ass, so simulate that scenario, without actually hitting him in the face.

The logical thing to do would be to have your son realize that he did something wrong by having him eat 30 dollars worth of tobbacco and thrirty single dollar bills.

You wont be hurting him and after this he probably wont steal/smoke again

I'm 18. Bigger than my dad. If he ever full on hit me.. Christ.. I don't think I'd ever forgive him... I also might break his jaw.

Then again, the human spirit has a huge capacity for forgiveness, at least in some cases.

I would BEAT HIS ASS! It won't be hard to make me snap and stomp his ass again afterwards.

I agree with met_B_A_N_S. My dad always has been dickhead to me. Whenever he try to be nice, he always turned out an asshole after taking me to somewhere such like fishing. He would yell at me over many little things. It caused me to steal a lot of weed from him, run away for week or two, and being "nasty" to my mom(because she always get on my dad side and get him to be her side).

I hate him ever since he hit me for 5th time. I REALLY regret for not fighting him back. He would fist/headbutt/knee straight in my face and pick by my neck up and choke me. I didn't even push him or taunt him. It's just that I couldn't hit him because I'm afraid if I'd make him even more angry.

Fucking c'mon, he's at 260lbs, 6'2 feet tall. That fucker have a bad temper and get into fights since he was a little kid. I don't think it's fair to 150-160lbs, 5'9 kid(me).



[This message has been edited by Volcanbaru (edited 09-17-2006).]

If my dad hit me, I'd break his fucking nose. Then I'd leave, come back when we're both calmed down, talk about it, then hopefully everything would be sweet

quote:Originally posted by Volcanbaru:

Fucking c'mon, he's at 260lbs, 6'2 feet tall. That fucker have a bad temper and get into fights since he was a little kid. I don't think it's fair to 150-160lbs, 5'9 kid(me).



Knuckle duster FTW!

I was raised with regular beatings from my mom's boyfriend. He didn't care if I did anything wrong. If he was drunk or angry, he'd just take it out on me.

The one time I tried fighting back, I ended up nearly dying, with a bloody face (took about 30 hard punches to the face against a hardwood floor) and bruises everywhere.

I would gladly kill that son of a bitch if I had the chance.

My real dad has never actually straight up hit me with intent to do any real damage though, so I guess that's different.

I don't know how I would react if my real dad hit me. Obviously I could care less about some asshole that my mom is living with, but my real dad... I have no idea.

I'd think he'd look good with the two black eyes that I'd give him.

Ide be more concerned about the fact that hes taking tobacco. Seriously that shits not good.

i know this will make me sound really cock and shit, but i don't care. i would think he's going to look pretty goddamned pathetic, laying in that hospital bed. this thought, as i'm being hauled away in a cop car. if my dad hits me like that, shit will hit the fucking fan. a fear factor is nonexistant.

quote:Originally posted by CarbonB:

Don't tell me what to do you wet cunt. You really think a 17 year old and a 30 year old are on even ground fighting? I don't give a fuck if you've seen a 12 year old beat up a grown man. The difference is age, and the difference between a 17 year old and a woman isn't much.

Most guys don't fully mature until they are in their 20's. Even then it is obvious to tell an advantage of man and a boy. 17 is a boy. Hitting one is a bitch move, that is like me hitting a 15 year old. I would look like a little bitch for whooping a 15 year olds ass.

He needs the money for something? Yea he is selling the $30 worth of tobacco on the black market for drugs.....god you are stupid.



Man, you must have alot of hate. All I ever see is you flaming people constantly, its annoying as fuck.

quote:Originally posted by Drips:



Man, you must have alot of hate. All I ever see is you flaming people constantly, its annoying as fuck.

Yeah he's got some issues.

What I would recommend, in my uneducated opinion, is talking to him seriously this tiome as it is a bit late to start beating his ass, but warn him if it happens again he is fucked. Even then you should probably just back hand him. You can't get to pissy over a back hand without fealling a little like a pussy.

I think one of the real issues here is: is anyone else going to see if they can split apart a coconut, and fuck up their hands in the process? I know I am! thanks jackketch

I'd knock you the fuck out bitch, he's your own son, no matter what he does. He still loves you and you still love him.

I don't know if this has been said yet, but I'd probably think "yeah, I deserved that"

My dad has only seriously tried to hit me once. It's a long story that I don't want to go into on an internet forum.

Short version:

I was having a cigarette on the balcony after a big argument with him, when he came out and took it a step further. He was seriously drunk, so I didn't engage until he grabbed me by the shoulder. We struggled for a bit until we both fell, he landed on top of me. He was reaching back his right arm to punch me in the face, but I bucked my body as hard as I could and got an arm free, then shoved him with my free arm and pushed upwards with my body to throw him off me. I then swung over, pulled myself up on one knee and grabbed him in a headlock with my left arm, and shouted at him to stop struggling. He kept trying to shake me off though, so I punched him in the head a few times til he stopped moving. I told him I was going to let him go and leave the appartment because I didn't want to fight him, but he started struggling again so I hit him a few more times. I repeated what I said, and he didn't move, so I let him go and walked away quickly. As I was walking through the living room a glass shattered against the wall a few feet in front of me, he had thrown it from the balcony but obviously missed me. He shouted a few insults after me, but I kept walking til I was out the front door.

I've never hit my dad, purely because he's my father. But jesus I have a lot of pent up agression for that motherfucker.

As for the question in the OP, I had little respect for my father before that fight, I've had pretty much none after it.

I really wouldnt know about the consequences attached to hitting your son "properly"

My Father just kicked my shit in every chance he got, and I hate him for it, but kinda thank him at the same time. because of what he did Ill never lay a hand on my child. There are always other ways of dealing with people.

quote:Originally posted by gadzooks:

Yeah he's got some issues.

I'm guessing CarbonB? Let me turn the page back and check...

I wouldn't think much of it. I'd just hit him back because i'm alot bigger then my dad was. I put him on the floor for calling my mom a bitch to my face, he's dead now though. My stepdad wouldn't hit me but if he did i'd kill him if my mom didn't get to him first.

Thanks for the thoughts so far people, there's some good stuff in there.

He steals tobacco because he spends his allowance within an hour of getting it and then can't afford to buy ciggies the rest of the month. I tend to have some quantity of tobacco lying around because i buy it in whenever i get the chance.

(for the americans i should explain that a 2 oz pack here costs circa $20 because of the obscene tax/duty. So most people buy it from smugglers who bring it in from Belgium/holland/spain where it costs a fraction of that amount.)

[This message has been edited by jackketch (edited 09-17-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by jackketch:

He steals tobacco because he spends his allowance within an hour of getting it and then can't afford to buy ciggies the rest of the month.

Maybe giving him his allowance on a weekly basis instead of a monthly basis would help him budget his money better?

My dad told me once that he'd break a finger for every $10 I stole off him, provided he could prove it. I never did steal anything off him.

Edit: oh and what fullcircle said, that's a fine idea.

[This message has been edited by another pint (edited 09-17-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by streetjusticeforall:

Even a real hardcore punch aint that bad, unless your kid is a pussy.

A dude at my school killed his best friend in a single punch. They were just mucking around.

A hardcore punch from an adult to a child would be terrible.

quote:Originally posted by Drips:



Man, you must have alot of hate. All I ever see is you flaming people constantly, its annoying as fuck.

Don't read it then bitch.

quote:Originally posted by fullcircle:

Maybe giving him his allowance on a weekly basis instead of a monthly basis would help him budget his money better?

It's not Jack's fault his son is a useless dickhole...

Wait, yes it is. Jack, you should have TAUGHT your fucking child better!

You shouldn't have to give him a dollar a day and such bullshit. He should know to save some of his fucking cash so he can go get smokes after he's done plowing his girlfriend.

I'm ashamed.

Personally I admire your restraint that you didn't hit him.

That being said, I think he needed a lot more beatings in his formative years! If I were you I'd make him get a job and you need to STOP giving him money. He's 17 or 18, right??

If he does steal from you again, though, kick his ass.

My dad raised his fist at me once or twice, never hit. I screamed bloody murder and he left me alone.



What a little prick - good job on not hitting him though.

Don't do it! I'm a firm believer in the cycle of family violence, that violence will only breed violent people. And for the large part its true. Everyone that I knew was beaten at home are violent assholes. They have no idea how to solve problems without their fists and have serious social problems.

If my dad ever hit me, I would lose -all- respect for him instantly. And I'm fucking sick of people saying "BELT EM, KEEP EM IN LINE, LITTLE SHIT!" because its fucking stupid. If your son is stealing pointless shit from you there are a lot more complicated issues present than a simple punch will solve. Beating him will only alienate him, which is the last thing you want.

Muchos respect for you not punching him, since it evidently required a lot of inner strength. Keep that shit up. Don't hit him man it will only make things so much worse.

At 17 I have to pay board, even when I'm unemployed ;p. You spoil him, just tell him if he steals from you again you won't give him any money.

I would never forgive my father if he hit me. That's just not something he should do.

If my dad hit me, it'd probably sever what little cordiality we have left.

Or what you could do is tell him that if you catch him at it again you'll get two sets of boxing gloves and you'll show him a reason not to steal from you again. Make the rules that you can't hit unless the gloves are on both of you, hence he has a way of backing out. Then all you'd have to do is box him round a bit.

The upside of this is that it shows violence has a place, and that it shouldn't be dished out at the heat of the moment, but when it's been well considered.

Then after take him down to the pub and buy him a beer... unless you actually get beaten... in whih case buy yourself a feminine cocktail.

WEll if i could still move i'd hit back i gues and then get pwned

quote:Originally posted by CarbonB:

Don't tell me what to do you wet cunt. You really think a 17 year old and a 30 year old are on even ground fighting? I don't give a fuck if you've seen a 12 year old beat up a grown man. The difference is age, and the difference between a 17 year old and a woman isn't much.

Most guys don't fully mature until they are in their 20's. Even then it is obvious to tell an advantage of man and a boy. 17 is a boy. Hitting one is a bitch move, that is like me hitting a 15 year old. I would look like a little bitch for whooping a 15 year olds ass.

He needs the money for something? Yea he is selling the $30 worth of tobacco on the black market for drugs.....god you are stupid.

You must be the most shallow minded and presumptuous guy I've ever known.

At 12 i was stronger than my mum, and that's pretty much one year after puberty starts, so only say, 15% stronger than prepubescence, and maybe also 15% of how strong i WILL be at around 17. Right now, however, I'm 6 foot 3 and 93 kilos (200 pounds?) and 15. Now all the females at my school are between 50 and 60 kilos. That's A 40 kilo difference, and I'm not lugging around boobs or hips. so where must this extra weight come from? I'm not fat, and although I'm tall, I'm not 170% taller as the difference in weight would suggest. Holy crap, maybe i have more MUSCLE!!! That's an amazing epiphany, right there.

Did it ever occur to you, that males are more physically powerful than females? maybe your basing your presumptions of yourself. Even if your mum could overpower you, it doesn't happen that way usually. This muscle comes during pubescent times. And it doesn't all suddenly appear when you hit 18 or 19. it steadily grows from about 12-18 where we physically develop. At 17 your near the end of that process, and you are a lot more powerful than any non weightlifting female is going to be.

I know i just completely fed the troll, but honestly, carbonB's sheer uncensored arrogance, naivety, and inability to see his own stupidity actively pisses me off every time i read one of his posts. If this werent the internet i would probably have lost control and physically attacked him by now.

----------------------------------------

As for the actual topic, my dad has attempted to really hit me only once in my life, for some bullshit reason i didnt deserve it for, like talking back or something equally tame. I Blocked said punch/hit/backhand/whatever it was gonna be, and the one that followed it, and he hasnt attempted to hit me again since then. That made me lsoe a lot of respect for him, as i always put a lot of value into fixng problems rationally and with a bit of emotional restraint, rather than just using physical power. I reckon if he *could* beat me up (which he is no longer capable of) then i wouldnt respect him any more. Fear, maybey, but i would hardly want to have my kids fear me, so id say its a bad plan.

If you can control your kids, make them feel ashamed of themselves without significantly raising your voice, or definitely not being violent, its a sign they probably respect you more than anything. Possibly however its too late for that, you would have to show them when theyre still young that you can be completely off your rocker but still calm and rational. Id love parents like that, and id probably do what they say because it shows they know what theyre talking about and arent insecure about me realising theyre wrong and trying to hide it with violence or threats.

Just tell him he's old enough to get a job and buy his own shit. Stop giving him money, and if he steals again take something else away and start locking up your stuff.

... A full on hit? My dad's a tough ex-ranger/Special Forces. I'd die if he were serious. What he does to amke me do shit is the psychological break down method. He lectures me for hours probing my weak points and just breaking me down in a sobbing mess.

I don't know what's worse.

But it sure has given me a cool head and some tough skin.

Basiclly if you can break your child mentaly. It's what you were suposed to do when they were young and stupid. Give ultimatimes that are blunt and utterly vicious. And if he breaks them look semi berserk before appearing to take control and sending him back to his room.

W/e.

quote:Originally posted by Gus:

It's not Jack's fault his son is a useless dickhole...

Wait, yes it is. Jack, you should have TAUGHT your fucking child better!

Do you lay all of the blame for your personal shortcomings on the shoulders of your parents?

Well, considering my dad and I broke out into a full-fledged fist fight a couple days before my birthday and on the last day of highschool... I still think of him the same. I now know if I don't hold back in a fight against him, I can win. But other than that, I'm a forgiving person and he felt really bad about it afterwards. I've been spoiled since with gifts and other nifty stuff. Oh, also later that day he was trying to apologize to me, so I pulled a fucking knife on him. Set him straight.

But really, I now think of him as a angsty kindergarten who can't settle things without violence. He's like a fucking crybaby, but without the crying... that made me view him as smaller than me, because I am intelligible and always find ways to work out things without conflict.

[This message has been edited by iSoape (edited 09-17-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by fullcircle:

Do you lay all of the blame for your personal shortcomings on the shoulders of your parents?



Actually Gus is right. I am very aware that my children's shortcomings are down to me being a fucking awful parent. ...ain't never claimed otherwise.

idk man, i would never hit my kid (although i dont have 1 ) but my friends dad hit him (closed fist, pretty hard), when he was 15, the next week his dad went to hit him again and my friend pulled a butterfly knife on his dad, his dad the later caught him without a blade and hit him probably as hard as he could, then later my friends dad was on a ladder, painting and my friend kicked the ladder out from under him and broke his ankle,his dad hasnt touched him since then. lmfao! true story, i would just talk 2 my kid.

[This message has been edited by AnarchyNY (edited 09-17-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by AnarchyNY:

idk man, i would never hit my kid (although i dont have 1 ) but my friends dad hit him (closed fist, pretty hard), when he was 15, the next week his dad went to hit him again and my friend pulled a butterfly knife on his dad, his dad the later caught him without a blade and hit him probably as hard as he could, then later my friends dad was on a ladder, painting and my friend kicked the ladder out from under him and broke his ankle,his dad hasnt touched him since then. lmfao! true story, i would just talk 2 my kid.



If my kid pulled a knife on me then he'd probably end up cutting his own fingers off!

If you give him money anyway...Why would he even steal from you? And why do you give him money in the first place?

quote:Originally posted by jackketch:

Actually Gus is right. I am very aware that my children's shortcomings are down to me being a fucking awful parent. ...ain't never claimed otherwise.

I think that a realistic assessment in ANY case has to be balanced.

It's becoming a popular cop-out for people to blame everything on bad parenting, it's a byproduct of the "culture of victims" that's emerged over the last decade or two in the west. Everybody is a victim in one way or other, nobody's to blame personally for ANYTHING almost.

I'm not saying that good or bad parenting is irrelevant. But it SERIOUSLY has to be put into perspective, and seen as a secondary influence on a person's behaviour. The first influence, which dwarfs all others, is the fact that a person's life amounts to a series of choices they make. Not just the big ones. Every day a person is confronted with hundreds, thousands - God knows how many - choices.

And THEY are the only person responsible and accountable for the outcome of those countless choices. If they had good parenting, it'll be easier for them to make good choices. If they had bad parenting, it'll be harder. But life isn't fair, and the universe doesn't give special dispensation for people who were unlucky in the quality of their parenting. It's up to the individual, and the individual alone, to make good choices. And if it's harder for them to do so because of something like bad parenting, then making good choices is more meritorious because of the increased hardship they had to overcome, compared to those who were more fortunate in their parenting.

Everyone is responsible for their own choices, it's bullshit how people hugely overemphasise the significance of various influences on someone's decision making ability these days.

quote:Originally posted by Nereth:

You must be the most shallow minded and presumptuous guy I've ever known.

At 12 i was stronger than my mum, and that's pretty much one year after puberty starts, so only say, 15% stronger than prepubescence, and maybe also 15% of how strong i WILL be at around 17. Right now, however, I'm 6 foot 3 and 93 kilos (200 pounds?) and 15. Now all the females at my school are between 50 and 60 kilos. That's A 40 kilo difference, and I'm not lugging around boobs or hips. so where must this extra weight come from? I'm not fat, and although I'm tall, I'm not 170% taller as the difference in weight would suggest. Holy crap, maybe i have more MUSCLE!!! That's an amazing epiphany, right there.

Did it ever occur to you, that males are more physically powerful than females? maybe your basing your presumptions of yourself. Even if your mum could overpower you, it doesn't happen that way usually. This muscle comes during pubescent times. And it doesn't all suddenly appear when you hit 18 or 19. it steadily grows from about 12-18 where we physically develop. At 17 your near the end of that process, and you are a lot more powerful than any non weightlifting female is going to be.

I know i just completely fed the troll, but honestly, carbonB's sheer uncensored arrogance, naivety, and inability to see his own stupidity actively pisses me off every time i read one of his posts. If this werent the internet i would probably have lost control and physically attacked him by now.



Now I got to flame you for being a dumb bitch. Just because at 12 you can over power YOUR bitch of a mother, it doesn't mean that my comparison of the average 17 year old to the average woman was not correct. Correct in the respect that a grown man hitting a 17 year old is EXACTLY the same as hitting a woman. Why? Because a grown man hitting a child, and a grown man hitting a kid are both bitch moves.

Now your dumbass is saying that he is going to fully mature at 18, are you kidding me? Are you that fucking stupid? You call me naive? The range is 18 - 25 years old for complete maturity physically for guys. Some guys don't fully mature until they are 25 and the difference in capacity for muscle is extremely noticeable.

Look at any 17 year old football player and compare them to a 30 year old counterpart. The difference is insane. Why? Because maturity has a large impact on body structure. So shut the fuck up, whooping a 14/15/16/17 year olds ass is a bitch move if you are a grown man.

My dad would utterly kill me if we fought, and he knows this. However I am a lot older than 17 and now I would put up a MUCH better fight considering I am way stronger than I was at 17.

So please keep YOUR bullshit posts to yourself, and when the FUCK did I ever mention Highschool girls you silly fag?

Physically attack me? Shut the fuck up.

Maybe he'd accept the fact that he deserved it. And if you continued to beat him he'd probably not do anything about it because he loves you.

So, he'd just let it go on. For years.

Yeah, Jackketch. Don't punch your children. Smack the FUCK out of them, but don't punch them. Punish them in more reasonable ways. ESPECIALLY since you, yourself, admit that you could unintentionally cause a lot of damage. It's not worth it.

I know some guys favour the 'kidney punch' because it's excrutiating and there are no tell tale bruises or broken noses to give the game up. Thus, he can get away with the abuse for years.

My ex boyfriend was one of those...Nothing hurts worse than getting punched there.

mm, my father used to hit me for years until I threatened to call the cops.

He always thought it was proper punishment, I thought he was insane.

In the last 6 years he's only taken 1 swing at me, but I ducked.

Personally I have very little respect for him as a human being. Sure we get along fine now, but it's a more becuase I "need" him than because I have this daughterly love for him. Come a life or death situation my opinions might change, but at this time he's more useful to me than loved.

quote:Originally posted by yoyobek:

I know some guys favour the 'kidney punch' because it's excrutiating and there are no tell tale bruises or broken noses to give the game up. Thus, he can get away with the abuse for years.

i think punching him in the kidneys would probably see me doing 5 to 7 at her Majesty's displeasure.

And the point of the thread was that i DON'T want to hit him...

Well ok yes i DID want to but only for a minute or so but i still didn't.

But if i had, i wanted to know how that might affect him/our relatioship.



[This message has been edited by jackketch (edited 09-17-2006).]

quote:Originally posted by jackketch:

I mean a proper mansized punch not the 'tough-love' bitch slap but a full on jaw breaking haymaker of punch with anger behind it?

...

i'm aware of the damage i can unitentionally do

...

last time i tried i could still split a fresh coconut with the side of my hand

...

Not so much the stealing (hell i was a thief for years)

Posts like this are why I love you 'ketch.

You remind me of Ross Kemp in that episode of 'Extras' where Kemp stars.

Ok, being a girl i may have a slight different reaction then what a son would but honestly, showing the restraint you did was probably a good idea. You lose total respect for a father that has no control over his temper and after that anything he says really doesnt matter at all.

Sorry dude but narr full on punching is a no no. If you find him stealing from you grab his hand and crush it. Wait till his on the floor crying then let go.

I say buy 2 pairs of 16oz. boxing gloves. Tell him the the next time shit goes missing you will both put the gloves on and box. If he is a pussy like you say I'm sure he will listen.

quote:Originally posted by CarbonB:

Now I got to flame you for being a dumb bitch. Just because at 12 you can over power YOUR bitch of a mother, it doesn't mean that my comparison of the average 17 year old to the average woman was not correct. Correct in the respect that a grown man hitting a 17 year old is EXACTLY the same as hitting a woman. Why? Because a grown man hitting a child, and a grown man hitting a kid are both bitch moves.

Now your dumbass is saying that he is going to fully mature at 18, are you kidding me? Are you that fucking stupid? You call me naive? The range is 18 - 25 years old for complete maturity physically for guys. Some guys don't fully mature until they are 25 and the difference in capacity for muscle is extremely noticeable.

Look at any 17 year old football player and compare them to a 30 year old counterpart. The difference is insane. Why? Because maturity has a large impact on body structure. So shut the fuck up, whooping a 14/15/16/17 year olds ass is a bitch move if you are a grown man.

My dad would utterly kill me if we fought, and he knows this. However I am a lot older than 17 and now I would put up a MUCH better fight considering I am way stronger than I was at 17.

So please keep YOUR bullshit posts to yourself, and when the FUCK did I ever mention Highschool girls you silly fag?

Physically attack me? Shut the fuck up.

Yes i am going to continue to feed the troll because i am an asshole and i have no respect for the other people of this board who don't want to hear me bitch. My bad.

1) 'Because a grown man hitting a child, and a grown man hitting a kid are both bitch moves.'

Really? hitting a child and a kid are both bitch moves? hell i thought they'd be miles different. I'm going to assume one of those was meant to be one of many names for one of the female race. and my response is no, no they are not. A female 17 year old. Hell a female 30 year old is going to be 95% of the time completely incapable of defending themselves against say, a male father (who we may *assume* is at least 30, but it could be a lot younger). A male who is 17 years old, on the other hand, may be more than capable of beating the shit out of their dad. I am, a lot of my friends are, and for those that aren't, they certainly have a lot more chance than a female. And the fact that you still think a 17 year old guy is equal to a woman is downright illogical. i honestly cannot get my head around how stupid you must be. Have you even seen a 17 year old guy in your life? that includes you, have you yet lived past the age of 17 ( i don't trust the claim in your post)? If you or whatever 17 year old male you are talking of was weaker than the average woman, then they are either physically disabled or actually are women themselves, tricking you for laughs.

2) at 17 years old, you are pretty high up their on the physical stage. Not fully mature, i never said you were, however puberty is pretty damn close to slowing down so you aren't going to keep the muscle mass boost that you've had since 13. Your brain and nervous system still has some work to do, but physically your not far from the end. As you said, 18-25 years old happens to start at only one year more than 17. And keep in mind during the last years the process slows down so if your waiting till 25, the last 4 years aren't going to be doing a huge amount.

3) A 30 year old footy player versus a 17 year old footy player... well, other than 13 odd years of added skill and time for physical training, i guess there's that small extra boost from the end of puberty we talked about. If you kick in the logic center of your brain for a moment, you will realise that footy players don't just get better from their development through puberty, they actually have to train.

4) your dad is either actually physically fit because he does physical work, or he knows how to fight, or he takes care of himself. Alternatively your a fat fuck and you also think ones ability in a fight is solely based on their strength, whereas those with higher order brain functions realise some amount of technique is appropriate. Besides, you getting your ass kick in a fight hardly makes it a bitch move for all dads to hit their kids. Though your case may be true, and i have no way of validating it, my case is also true, and it wouldn't really be a bitch move to attack me, because a) at my age i can defend myself and b) because if i am hit it would be for good reason, and i can accept that at this age.

5) turns out during puberty women don't put a whole lot of muscle on. They get boobs, hips, and various other odds and ends, but other than size, they don't get a huge amount of additional athletic ability. Also, girls physically grow younger than guys, so they become equivalent in athletic ability to an older woman fairly quickly. A lot of girls in high school can be compared to those who are older

6) Yes, i would have physically attacked you. That is unless your twice my size, but given I'm not exactly small, i cant see that happening. Stupid people who cant accept it piss me off, so, although you might have some crazy kung-fu hidden up your sleeve, and be able to completely beat the shit out of me (well never know, because this is the Internet), i would still have hit you because of how frustrating it is trying to get the same previously so-obvious-it-hurts point through your head.

To the other members of S&A, sorry for feeding the troll, but i have to do it because it makes m y head throb when i read his posts. If it pisses you off too much just tell me and ill stop replying, but untill then i cant help but react to his unyielding arrogance.

quote:Originally posted by CarbonB:

17 year old is the same as a woman, physically that is.

I've known some pretty hard 17 year olds then.

quote:Originally posted by CarbonB:

Because a grown man hitting a child, and a grown man hitting a kid are both bitch moves.

A child is a kid...

I'd probably be shocked. Cry for some dramatic effect, and once he lets his guard down...POW! Right in the motherfucking face. I've had enough of his shit already, and I won't take anymore.

My dad has once took a swing at me (proper punch). I can't hit for shit (small biceps), so I tackled him and took the fight to the ground. This is was infront of my friends, he laughed and said he was going to embarrass me and kick my arse.

Well moments later one of his ribs were broken and he was struggling to breathe.

Hitting your kids is okay. Punching your kids is FUCKED UP. If my parents hit me, I dealt with it. Always have, always will, even now as a 19 year old. As long as it's not a closed fisted punch.

I've pulled a sword on my parents for threatening to punch me in the face. My mum loves doing it because she knows I can't hit her back. And she loves hitting with her rings on.

That being said, my father is afraid of me. He's actually told people he has feared for his life because of me. He once told me that "your mother needs a good beating". Then I reacted (long story). Since then, he's deathly afraid of me.

Jack, don't punch your kid. Instead, take away his allowance. Take away his TV, his music player (mp3, MD, CD, what ever) his internet, his computer, aswell as any consoles he has, tell him he cant see his girlfriend, don't give him smokes. Put him in fucking lock down.

Then tell the little fucking shit that if he can steal, you can steal as well. Give it a week. Then give it all back to him. Tell him if he steals from you again, it's gone for two weeks. And again, three weeks. So on and so forth. It's like training a dog, he'd get the message pretty quickly.

me dads hit me propper hard before...and becuase of his stupidly short temper it was was somthing equally small and petty.

I hit him back - very hard. Due to the fact he is on warfrin (sp?) amongst other things for a heart operation, the last thing he wanted was a cut or anykind of opening in the skin to the time it takes for the blood to clot...so after that he hasnt exactly tried to be very aggressive towards me.

this thread is sad,really....

quote:Originally posted by jackketch:



My kids aren't insane enough to try and fight me...not yet anyway. I suppose one day Eldest might take a swing at me.

I'm more like Euda. Reason with me? I'll reason with you. Fight me? I'll fight you right back.

My dad wouldn't do that, he's not violent. In addition, he knows full well that if he hit me in anger, I'd hit him back, and he'd come out worse off (I'm 17 also).

I don't steal from my parents anyways. I mean I've taken the odd pound coin from my dads pile of loose change, he's probably guessed I've done it and doesn't really care.

Tell your kid if he wanted $30 of tobacco so bad, you would have just given it to him (provided you don't mind him smoking of course) and there's no need for him to steal from you.

Anything you can do I can do better....

quote:Originally posted by arquin:

He once told me that "your mother needs a good beating". Then I reacted (long story). Since then, he's deathly afraid of me.

Tell the story then, Obi Wan.