If people are "born" gay like many of you say, and shit happens to there brain before there born. Then why do they CHOOSE to walk and talk like that...Im definatly sure they werent walking like that when they were 10..and havent "discovered" themselves yet. If you have a reasonable answer then I will be happy to admit I am wrong (unlike some of the immature kids on this forum) You might say that they have more feminine qualities or whatever but no kid is like that young...

It is most certainly a mental disorder, albeit one that's very difficult to cure.

That doesn't mean it's THEIR fault that they have it, though.

Fags got homosexuality removed from the list of mental illnesses in the early 70s by storming the annual American Psychiatric Association (APA) conference on successive years. "Guerrilla theater tactics and more straight-forward shouting matches characterized their presence" (2). Since homosexuality has been removed from the APA list of mental illnesses, so has pedophilia (except when the adult feels "subjective distress") (27). (http://www.spies.com/~gus/ran/0012/antiporn/fagfacts.html)

The way I see it is that everyone has a choice to be who they want to be. As humans we are highly adaptable and intelligent. We can change ourselves in more dramatic and numerous ways than any other creature on earth.

...maybe I'm just full of shit.

[This message has been edited by Little Pea (edited 07-08-2004).]

I dont think it realy matters. It could be hormonal, it could be just as simple as sexual preference. Humans dont have sex for reproduction for the most part, we have sex for pleasure. And if sex with the same gender is pleasurefull then have at it. There realy shouldnt be discrimanation for it, its mearly what people find sensual. Personaly I am heterosexual, but thats what pleases me.

cbfed addressing the whole thing but:

assuming x person is born gay, i can see it entirely possible that he decides to throw himself into the faggy stereotype (voice, movements) etc.

Is My Little Baby Going to Go Gay? (http://www.landoverbaptist.org/news0704/homoprevention.html)

No "homosexual gene" can be found, new study says. (http://www.fathersforlife.org/gaygene.htm)

my uncle has a photo of two male giraffes having sex.

well, this is a good question.

in the animal kingdom, there are homosexual sex acts. these are mostly about power though, much like in prison. i have never heard of any animal known for longterm/lifetime pairing doing so with a male.

i know that mice, when massive amounts of estrogen was injected into e pregnant mom, showed some differences. the males held there tails like females, and had lower sex drives.

so, it seems that yes, the biochemistry of the mom and dad may have alot to do with it. i personally think, that the relative high scale of homos in humans come from some aspect of our higher brain.

the lisping and limp wristed shit, is over the top. i beleive that most of those types are putting it on.

on the flip side, it certainly can be from enviorment. i understand that all samurai were gay to varying extents because they were almost completly alienated from girls.

in my mind, its just like ppl and prozac: some ppl need it, and some ppl abuse it because of personal shortcomings or inability to cope.

Sniper Piper,

1) I hate you because you are a dumb shit.

2) You do know that landoverbaptist was proven to be fake? Retard.

-rage

quote:Originally posted by HempMaster:

I dont think it realy matters. It could be hormonal, it could be just as simple as sexual preference. Humans dont have sex for reproduction for the most part, we have sex for pleasure. And if sex with the same gender is pleasurefull then have at it. There realy shouldnt be discrimanation for it, its mearly what people find sensual. Personaly I am heterosexual, but thats what pleases me.

you spelled really* wrong. you forgot to add the extra l.

quote:Originally posted by RagingPussy:

2) You do know that landoverbaptist was proven to be fake? Retard.

-rage[/B]

Yea, I put it in for a joke.

But this one I put in just for you

17% of fags eat and/or rub the feces of their partners on themselves (http://www.spies.com/~gus/ran/0012/antiporn/fagfacts.html)

<A HREF="http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v294/SniperPiper/highjackthis.bmp">http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v294/SniperPiper/highjackthis.bmp" width="90" height="90 (http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v294/SniperPiper/highjackthis.bmp" width="90" height="90)</A>

quote:Originally posted by AllShallPerish:

why do they CHOOSE to walk and talk like that..

Look in the mirror and ask yourself "why"

Scientific studies have proven that left-handed males are more likely to be gay.

quote:Originally posted by AllShallPerish:

Then why do they CHOOSE to walk and talk like that...Im definatly sure they werent walking like that when they were 10..and havent "discovered" themselves yet.

How many respectable people behave the same way they did when they were 10?

Same reason heteros DON'T. Why would a gay person wanna be mistaken for straight? Why would a straight person wanna be mistaken for gay?

I would assume its all a way to differentiate themselves without coming out and saying anything.

quote:Originally posted by JesusTookMyBike123:

Same reason heteros DON'T. Why would a gay person wanna be mistaken for straight? Why would a straight person wanna be mistaken for gay?

I would assume its all a way to differentiate themselves without coming out and saying anything.

ah I wouldent want to be mistaken for gay...so they wouldent want to be mistaken for straight..But what about the Bisexuals?

I won't pretend I speak for all bisexuals, but as for me, I just act like MYSELF!(weird, no?)

I don't speak in a girly voice, or flop my wrists every which way, or marinate myself in drama. I'm a man, dammit, so I act like one. But I've been told I put off that vibe that says "BI!", and we can sense our own.

quote:Originally posted by AllShallPerish:

If people are "born" gay like many of you say, and shit happens to there brain before there born. Then why do they CHOOSE to walk and talk like that...Im definatly sure they werent walking like that when they were 10..and havent "discovered" themselves yet. If you have a reasonable answer then I will be happy to admit I am wrong (unlike some of the immature kids on this forum) You might say that they have more feminine qualities or whatever but no kid is like that young...



And do you still walk and talk the way you did when you were 10? 7? 4? I think not.

Obviously acting in a way stereotypical of a gay male is a conscious choice. It's to differentiate, as someone above me said.

However, I strongly believe that, whether it happens at birth or due to environment, gay people can't choose whether they can be gay or not; think about it - if you could choose, would you be gay, or straight? Would you choose a life of intolerance and abuse, or a normal life?

Homosexuality in my opinion is caused by Demon Possesion...no seriously, Demon possesions is stereotyped by "The Exorcist"...thats Hollywood....in the Bible a demon would make a Guy "Dumb", my point is Demon Posession is conditioned to greater and lesser extent....Biblically speaking, for a good read on the subject in the context of Scripture read The Spirit World-Clarence Larkin (http://www.thinkbible.org/bookdb/0008.html), Ill warn you, Larkin is pretty heavy stuff, you need to know Bible Basics before diving into Larkin.

Another reason people turn out gay maybe has something to do with.....

Fags commit more than 33% of all reported child molestations in the United States, which, assuming fags make up 2% of the population, means that 1 in 20 fags is a child molester, while 1 in 490 heterosexuals is a child molester (19).

73% of all fags have had sex with boys under 19 years of age (9).

Many fags admit that they are pedophiles: "The love between men and boys is at the foundation of homosexuality" (22).

Because fags can't reproduce naturally, they resort to recruiting children. Fags can be heard chanting "TEN PERCENT IS NOT ENOUGH, RECRUIT, RECRUIT, RECRUIT" in their fag parades. A group called the "Lesbian Avengers" prides itself on trying to recruit young girls. They print "WE RECRUIT" on their literature. Some other fags aren't as overt about this, but rather try to infiltrate society and get into positions where they will have access to the malleable minds of young children (e.g., the clergy, teachers, Boy Scout leaders, etc.) (8). (http://www.spies.com/~gus/ran/0012/antiporn/fagfacts.html)





[This message has been edited by Sniper Piper (edited 07-08-2004).]

Hmm, those statistics can be bent around you know. Child molestors often molest boys, but they dont have a homosexual adult life. So one out of every 20 adult homosexuals you see are not likely to be a child molestor.

If a demon is truely posessing them, why do you hate them?

As for 73 percent of all fags, 80 percent of all males total have had a homosexual experience, usually under 18. Someone with loose lips can translate that into "sex".

It says many fags admit they are pedophiles, but I've never heard of a homosexual admitting being a pedophile. I've never heard them chant slogans about recruiting either. I suppose the evil liberal media is keeping that away from me.

As for your Fag Facts site, most of those statistics can be bent around in countless ways. They mean nothing. I'm not going to waste my time with it unless you really want me to.



No, I am not homosexual.

quote:Originally posted by AllShallPerish:

If people are "born" gay like many of you say, and shit happens to there brain before there born. Then why do they CHOOSE to walk and talk like that...Im definatly sure they werent walking like that when they were 10..and havent "discovered" themselves yet. If you have a reasonable answer then I will be happy to admit I am wrong (unlike some of the immature kids on this forum) You might say that they have more feminine qualities or whatever but no kid is like that young...



Some genes don't kick in until puberty. Some kick in at random times. Not all genes are activated at birth, which is why we age the way we do. It's also true that the brain of a homosexual is slightly larger than that of a heterosexual. That's not to say they are smarter, but it does hint at a genetic connection.

Homosexuality is by choice, and wrong. Let it go.

quote:As for your Fag Facts site, most of those statistics can be bent around in countless ways. They mean nothing. I'm not going to waste my time with it unless you really want me to.



Normally I agree with the argument that statistics can prove Anything so long as you can show that the sources have a "Bias."

Are the sources "Biased?"

The homepage that you got your "Fag Facts" from is the work of a nutbar or (more likely) someone pretending to be a nutbar. Just look at his main page ( http://www.spies.com/~gus/ran/0012/antiporn/ ). I glanced at the reference footnotes, and most appeared to be from respectable journals but there were also a few suspicious ones, like one from the "Family Research Institute" and another publication titled "Is Homosexual Activity Normal?" that is coincidentally the source of your "Because fags can't reproduce naturally..." quote.

But even the points ostensibly backed by respectable publications are suspect, since the person who compiled that page is offering "facts" backed up by small quotes and a lot of interpretation, rather than quoting his references directly. I'm sure the San Francisco Sentinel never said "Many fags admit that they are pedophiles." It's impossible to say how true to his sources the author has remained with his other points, but my bullshit klaxon is going AWOOOGA AWOOOGA.

[This message has been edited by Gray (edited 07-09-2004).]

quote:Originally posted by Gray:

but my bullshit klaxon is going AWOOOGA AWOOOGA.



No, thats your bias meter going "Awooga", I doubt theres any amount of research that could sway you.

quote:Originally posted by Sniper Piper:

No, thats your bias meter going "Awooga", I doubt theres any amount of research that could sway you.



Well, yes I do believe that you picked about the most biased site that could be picked to support your point. Actually, you just want to promote fear and dislike of homosexuals, so supporting a particular point isn't important. This thread was ostensibly about whether genetics or environmental influences make people homosexual. Despite all the heat and wind on that page, there isn't anything about genetics vs. environment in the development of homosexual preference.

In the late 19th century there were people who knew and could scientifically "prove" that people of northern Europeans ancestry were natural intellectuals and rulers, and that those descended from southern and eastern Europeans were mentally and morally inferior. There was concern that heavy immigration from southern and eastern Europe would corrupt and destroy the "native" (i.e. earlier immigrant - not American Indian!) population of America. I suspect that in 50 years these discussions about the homosexual menace will seem equally bizarre.

quote:Originally posted by Sniper Piper:

Normally I agree with the argument that statistics can prove Anything so long as you can show that the sources have a "Bias."

Are the sources "Biased?"



Well it isn't taken in a professional matter. It's not "Uncommonly Known Facts About Homosexuals" but rather "Fag Facts"

Who did the research?

Who made the Conclusions?

These guys did....

quote:REFERENCES

(1) Advocate, 1985.

(2) Bayer, R. Homosexuality and American Psychiatry.

(3) Bell, A. and Weinberg, M. Homosexualities: a Study of Diversity Among Men and Women. New York: Simon & Schuster, 1978.

(4) Cameron et. al. ISIS National Random Sexuality Survey. Nebraska Med. Journal, 1985, 70, pp. 292-299.

(5) "Changes in Sexual Behavior and Incidence of Gonorrhea." Lancet, April 25, 1987.

(6) Corey, L. and Holmes, K. "Sexual Transmission of Hepatitis A in Homosexual Men." New England J. Med., 1980, pp. 435-38.

(7) Family Research Institute, Lincoln, NE.

(8) Fields, Dr. E. "Is Homosexual Activity Normal?" Marietta, GA.

(9) Jay and Young. The Gay Report. Summit Books, 1979, p. 275.

(10) Kaifetz, J. "Homosexual Rights Are Concern for Some," Post-Tribune, 18 December 1992.

(11) Kus, R. "Alcoholics Anonymous and Gay America." Medical Journal of Homosexuality, 1987, 14(2), p. 254.

(12) Lesbian News, January 1994.

(13) Lief, H. Sexual Survey Number 4: Current Thinking on Homosexuality, Medical Aspects of Human Sexuality, 1977, pp. 110-11.

(14) Manlight, G. et. al. "Chronic Immune Stimulation By Sperm Alloantigens." J. American Med. Assn., 1984, 251(2), pp. 237-438.

(15) Morton-Hunt Study for Playboy

(16) MsKusick, L. et. al. "AIDS and Sexual Behavior Reported By Gay Men in San Francisco." Am. J. Pub. Health, 1985, 75, pp. 493-96.

(17) Newsweek, February 1993.

(18) Newsweek, 4 October 1993.

(19) Psychological Reports, 1986, 58, pp. 327-37.

(20) Rueda, E. "The Homosexual Network." Old Greenwich, Conn., The Devin Adair Company, 1982, p. 53.

(21) San Francisco AIDS Foundation, "Can We Talk."

(22) San Francisco Sentinel, 27 March 1992.

(23) Science Magazine, 18 July 1993, p. 322.

(24) Statistical Abstract of the U.S., 1990.

(25) "The Overhauling of Straight America." Guide Magazine. November, 1987.

(26) United States Census Bureau

(27) United States Congressional Record, June 29, 1989.

(28) University of Chicago's Nation Research Corp.

(29) Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders Fourth Edition, American Psychiatric Association, 1994.

The Fag Facts fella just put them all in one spot....Fag Facts (http://www.spies.com/~gus/ran/0012/antiporn/fagfacts.html)

quote:Originally posted by AllShallPerish:

ah I wouldent want to be mistaken for gay...so they wouldent want to be mistaken for straight..But what about the Bisexuals?

Bisexuals wouldn't care either way. I get called a lesbian all the time, just give them a simple correction and be on your way. That's that.

quote:Originally posted by HempMaster:

I dont think it realy matters. It could be hormonal, it could be just as simple as sexual preference. Humans dont have sex for reproduction for the most part, we have sex for pleasure. And if sex with the same gender is pleasurefull then have at it. There realy shouldnt be discrimanation for it, its mearly what people find sensual. Personaly I am heterosexual, but thats what pleases me.intersesting.ive never herd it explaind like that b4

You guys make me laugh. Do you really believe half the crap that you have written?

I can't vouch for a so called 'community' or specific individual apart from myself, but as far as I go I was born gay.

Since my earliest sexual memory I have fancied guys, I have never felt the urge to explore a woman and to be honest the thought has always repulsed me.

My homosexuality is not something that society has forced on me or managed to influence me in in some way, its just the way I am.

I had a happy childhood, both parents still married, no abuse and was not spoilt and am not an only child. I have just always fancied guys.

The limp wristed types that you are all talking about are a certain group of gay men, but there are loads of different types. I am gay but don't get along with the 'faggy' queeny types either, not that there is anything wrong with them its just im not like that myself.

I don't know how to answer your question except with the honest reply that I really have never questioned my sexuality. It has always been something completely natural to me. I must have been 'born gay', there is no other explanation for it. There could be arty farty scientific reasoning behind that, who knows, but the honest truth is that I have always been gay, its all I know. I never 'found myself' or 'got turned' or anything like that.

So, im either the exception to the rule and 100% the most gay blooded guy on the planet or the gene theory is correct for at least some of us!

Cheers.

^^^ that was good

quote:So, im either the exception to the rule and 100% the most gay blooded guy on the planet or the gene theory is correct for at least some of us!



Sorry about your Luck!

quote:"I dont know how one Man can fall in love with another mans hairy ass!"-Some Rock Star

Yeah Sniper...you should be feeling sorry for people...

I feel sorry for your hate-filled self. Atleast the man that you hate has something that leads him towards love...you seem to be an entity of pure hatred, and it wouldn't surprise me in the least if you were the type to go out gay-bashing with a friend only to finish the night off by finalizing the relase of your own homosexual fantasies with some cock-sucking.

Ugh, you made me do it.

1. Injesting blood is not dangerous. Blood also tastes a lot different than semen so the two cant be compared in a meaningful manner. French kissing a woman will transfer more germs than a load.

2. The report was in the late 70's, when homosexuals were much more rampant and careless with their sex life. It wasnt a real risk back then, since AIDS had not come out until the next decade.

3. That statistic was from the 80's. Even if things haven't changed though, it's their choice to run the risk of STDs, and it doesnt make them evil or sick.

4."Fags" generally seem to be in great physical shape, so a load to the anus probably doesnt have a significant effect on the immune system.

5. Family Research Institute

6. Likely from the 80's since the frequency of books written on the controversy of homosexuality has gone down a lot. Homosexuals have become more responsable since then and usually only "tounge" trusted partners.

7. and? That's no more discusting than a penis by your standards.

8. Golden showers are not common, and equally common in heterosexual sexual activity.

9. Tounging could be considered eating feces. This report was also from 1985, and thing shave changed a lot in the homosexual community since then.

10. So? Enemas make the sex cleaner and less dangerous. Most "fags" today use condoms with untrusted partners anyway.



I could go on and discredit your fag facts, but I'm not going through over 40 more sentences of that garbage. Almost all of the sources are dated articles and books from the mid 80's, when the homosexual controversy was highly biased.

[This message has been edited by 655 (edited 07-10-2004).]

quote:Originally posted by 655:



1. Injesting blood is not dangerous. Blood also tastes a lot different than semen so the two cant be compared in a meaningful manner. French kissing a woman will transfer more germs than a load.

Youre right, its not "Dangerous", its unclean! Just like drinking your own Urine, it may not be "Dangerous" but its nasty...by the way, you ever see what happens to a Dead body after it sits for a couple of days? It Bloats....cause of the little nasties you have in your blood.

Secondly, this is your Opinion versus the Proffesionals.....

Corey, L. and Holmes, K. "Sexual Transmission of Hepatitis A in Homosexual Men." New England J. Med., 1980, pp. 435-38.

Thirdly, Eating Monkey Blood is the reason the Africans got GRID.

Go ahead and eat blood...its not "Dangerous!"

quote:2. The report was in the late 70's, when homosexuals were much more rampant and careless with their sex life. It wasnt a real risk back then, since AIDS had not come out until the next decade.

Americans got GRID (Gay Related Immune Deficiency) from the poor opressed minority that your defending.

Sambos, is what you call the little black boys that fags used to rent on the coast of Africa, which is how GRID got spread into Queer population!

quote:3. That statistic was from the 80's. Even if things haven't changed though, it's their choice to run the risk of STDs, and it doesnt make them evil or sick.

Things have changed now! They getting married now!

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v294/SniperPiper/bs3.bmp" width="90" height="90 (http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v294/SniperPiper/bs3.bmp">quote:4."Fags" generally seem to be in great physical shape, so a load to the anus probably doesnt have a significant effect on the immune system.[/quote]

Once again....Youre "Opinion" versus the Proffesionals!

quote:5. Family Research Institute

These guys arent the KKK, they just have an opinion contrary to the Liberal Propaganda that so saturates the American Public on an hourly basis! Heres some articles....

High Health care costs, Thank your Homosexuals.....<A HREF="http://www.familyresearchinst.org/FRR_04_03.html]The High Cost of Sodomy

quote:6. Likely from the 80's since the frequency of books written on the controversy of homosexuality has gone down a lot. Homosexuals have become more responsable since then and usually only "tounge" trusted partners.

Maybe you ought to post a link stating why Homosexuality is safe today! Why, cause wearing condomns!!

The American Public is still paying for their IMMORALITY. STDS!

quote:7. and? That's no more discusting than a penis by your standards.

Theres a BIG difference between an ARM and a PENIS! Have somebody stick an arm up your dirt hole and you might come around to my way of thinking!

quote:8. Golden showers are not common, and equally common in heterosexual sexual activity.

Only Sexual FREAKS are turned on by that!

quote:9. Tounging could be considered eating feces. This report was also from 1985, and thing shave changed a lot in the homosexual community since then.

The only thing thats changed since then is that these Sexual Perverts now have the Brainwashed masses to defend them....note that these defenders dont think themselves...they react according to the program they recieve!

All Robots are programed by the same Jack Ass!

quote:10. So? Enemas make the sex cleaner and less dangerous. Most "fags" today use condoms with untrusted partners anyway.

Drink any Enema water lately?



quote:I could go on and discredit your fag facts, but I'm not going through over 40 more sentences of that garbage. Almost all of the sources are dated articles and books from the mid 80's, when the homosexual controversy was highly biased.

All you have "Proven" is that you have a Bias. No mountain of facts is going to change that!

The Moderator is just another Liberal Clone, defending the "Underdog" just like he/she was programmed to do!



[This message has been edited by Sniper Piper (edited 07-10-2004).]

Of course I have a bias, but not nearly as tilted in either direction as the general opinion of heterosexuals in the mid 80's.

1. So you dont accept fellatio from a female, or is it you just dont ejaculate in her mouth because you're worried? Porn stars swallow load upon load and dont get sick from it. They too are often quite healthy. A body bloats because of expanding cells, gas forming, and the beasties you refer to. That's because there's no immune system in a corpse to prevent them from flourishing. People still arent sure what caused AIDS, so refer to that theory as a theory. While there is never zero risk with injesting any bodily fluid, my point was average virus free blood does not contain enough bacteria to have a significant effect on one's immune system.

2. I dont see what your point is. It could have just as easily started with a heterosexual female. Such a freak virus could have started anywhere in the world, and spread through any group of sexuality. Dont blame homosexuals, they werent the only ones who didnt see the risk, because as far as everyone knew there wasnt one, at least not one nearly as significant as AIDS.

3. Yes, getting married. That means monogomous or nearly monogomous relationships. That means reduced spread of AIDs in homosexuals and, indirectly, reduced spead of AIDS in heterosexuals.

4. The homosexual community is quite healthy. It's rare that you see a weak and unattractive homosexual. They exist, but homosexuals seem to take more care of their body than heterosexual males.

5. Eh.

6. Yes, but who is to define immorality? You? The Bible? What you think of right and wrong is irrelivant, because for every person who shares your views is another who entirely disagrees.

7. There is a big difference, you're right, but they can be considered equally discusting. Having an arm up my rectum wont make me see your way. I wont enjoy it, but I will still understand that there are others who do or there wouldnt be such a high rate of consentual fisting.

8. Yes, only freaks. Assume for a moment that you dont find homosexuals to be freaks. On the rare occasion a homosexual likes a golden shower, there is a "freak" heterosexual that enjoys it just as much.

9. You seem just as brainwashed to me as I probably seem to you, so let's set that issue aside.

10. Most of them dont drink enema water. In fact, I've never heard of an average homosexual who would even consider it.

quote:Originally posted by 655:

Of course I have a bias, but not nearly as tilted in either direction as [B]the general opinion of heterosexuals in the mid 80's.

We've come along ways since then, the Liberals call it "Progress", the Right calls it "Lower Standards!"



quote:1. So you dont accept fellatio from a female, or is it you just dont ejaculate in her mouth because you're worried? Porn stars swallow load upon load and dont get sick from it. They too are often quite healthy. A body bloats because of expanding cells, gas forming, and the beasties you refer to. That's because there's no immune system in a corpse to prevent them from flourishing. People still arent sure what caused AIDS, so refer to that theory as a theory. While there is never zero risk with injesting any bodily fluid, my point was average virus free blood does not contain enough bacteria to have a significant effect on one's immune system.

Whoever gives and recieves being Homo or Hetro bottom line is, its unclean.....you wouldnt french kiss a dog that licks its own ass....or would you?



quote:2. I dont see what your point is. It could have just as easily started with a heterosexual female. Such a freak virus could have started anywhere in the world, and spread through any group of sexuality. Dont blame homosexuals, they werent the only ones who didnt see the risk, because as far as everyone knew there wasnt one, at least not one nearly as significant as AIDS.

No, your wrong. It would not have spread in a "Moral" Hetro society! Thank your Athiestic/Evolutionary God defying crowd....you got your "Sexual Freedom" and we're all paying for it.

America is a sick society, and like Hitler recognized, the masses are Dumb. The Masses dont think for themselves, the masses respond to "Repetion", if you tell them "Homosexuality" is a "Lifestyle" your "Born that way" night and day...afterwhile people start to pick it up and believe it.

Thats what Im dealing with here on totse.

Im not going to deal with rest of your loose arguments. Good Night.

My friend walked and talked like a fag when he was 10. ...not that it really matters. Who gives a fuck if you're born gay or if you chose to be gay or if childhood experiences make you gay? Why the hell should it matter? Why is gay the wrong choice to make? Because it's not natural? Nothing we do is very natural nowadays. Unless you believe in some fire-and-brimstone-ass Christian God, there's no real reason why homosexuality is wrong (even if it is a choice).

I didn't read the thread, so sorry if I'm just talking about shit that's already been mentioned

I'm not reading this entire thread just because the initial post is fucking ignorant. I've defended homosexuality to much smarter people than you. I just don't give a fuck enough about what you "think/assume/think you know" to try and persuade you differently. You don't deserve my debate.

As my handle says Mister, most noobs think I am male and take a post completely out of context. (You can see where this can go in the sex forum) anyways, I've been called faggot, homo, and all this nonsense.

Bigots like you should just shut the fuck up. It's you people that make this world dangerous to live in.

Fine, you think gay people are sick pervs. I'm sure a lot of people think you're a fucking dumbass.. they just keep it to themselves.

You should wear a scarlet letter with D on it, for dumbass.

And just because I don't care about your stupid opinions enough to go on - FUCK YOU.

Idiot.

How many gay people do you know? I know several gay men and none of them portray the gay steryotype that you are referring to. They're just like normal people, in fact, they're probably more like you that you'd like to admit.

-Week.

quote:Originally posted by CatharticWeek:

in fact, they're probably more like you that you'd like to admit.



No, your wrong....

I dont enjoy urine showers.....

Urinating on each other ("golden showers") and torture has doubled among fags since the 1940s, and fisting has increased astronomically (7). (http://www.spies.com/~gus/ran/0012/antiporn/fagfacts.html)

I dont stick my arm up somebodies pooper..

33% of fags admit to fisting (inserting the hand, sometimes part of the arm, into the rectum of his partner) (7). (http://www.spies.com/~gus/ran/0012/antiporn/fagfacts.html)



I dont rub feces on me or anybody else....

17% of fags eat and/or rub the feces of their partners on themselves (4). (http://www.spies.com/~gus/ran/0012/antiporn/fagfacts.html)

quote:Originally posted by MrMojoRisin:

I've defended homosexuality to much smarter people than you.

Straight off I can tell youre a real Intellectual

quote:Bigots like you should just shut the fuck up. It's you people that make this world dangerous to live in.

I dont go around spreading AIDS! or more correctly GRID (Gay Related Immune Deficiency)...push your stool in with that!

Im looking forward to a nice chat with you!

Probably wont get one from it...it will just delete this whole thread....truth hurts

Why, WHY did I click on this thread?! Why did I actually read a couple of the posts in it? What the hell is wrong with me? I must be a masochist.

Is anyone going to respond to what I said earlier? I mean without spouting off bullshit statistics made up by some repub

His point was most homosexuals don't enjoy urine showers, and many dont enjoy fisting. What's it matter anyway? You wouldn't like a penis up your rectum either, so you can understand why some homosexuals might like a fist more than they like the penis.

I'm curious. What do you find to be "progress"? Another dark age of ignorance and repression?

quote:I'm curious. What do you find to be "progress"? Another dark age of ignorance and repression?

I assume youre refering to the cute little argument that "Christians" were the reason for the "Dark Ages" and the "Liberal" is responsible for pulling us out of it....

You can thank "Christians" youre not in the Dark Ages anymore...you can thank Christians for the ability to read....The "Printing Press" and the very first thing printed off of it....take a wild guess what that would be, The Bible.....this sparked an "Intellectual Revolution"...thank your Christians for that.... Liberals had nothing to do with it.

A lot of gays don't act like their stereotypes. Not to flame, but you obviously don't know what you're talking about. You've been watching too much TV. Most of the time, you can't tell gay guys from straight guys, or lesbian chicks from straights chicks.

I'm sure somebody said this before me but I'm way too lazy to read the entire thread.

But that's not really the point. I could dress all butch and act like a lesbian and everybody would think I was, but that wouldn't change the fact that I like guys. Same goes for gays. You can't tell they're gay from the way they act, but they like members of the same sex. You can't help how you feel. It's not like they're acting, they like certain people and they can't help it. What if I told you you weren't born straight? It's the same thing. You have certain preferences, everybody does. Were people born liking root beer and hating Pepsi? Who gives a shit? What matters is they know what they like and you should just fuck off about it.

[This message has been edited by stephanina (edited 07-10-2004).]

I'm with Cowboy69 on this one. I've been gay since day one. I had a normal life too. Most importantly, I've experienced the "gay scene" and feel that I'm more informed than many of my hetero counterparts. It's fine and good to stand by outdated studies, but what do you really know about anything gay? Have you ever slept with a man? How about spent the night partying at a gay bar? Until you get out there and mix it up a little, you don't really have the right to say shit. As for this limp-wrist stereotype, that's what it is. A stereotype. I don't think that all straight guys run round gawking at cars, hunting, fishing, and spitting all the time. It's ludacris to think of sexuality as a choice. It's not like gay men just wake up some morning and think, "I think today I'll choose my sexuality," it just doesn't happen. I believe that if you're under the impression that all gay men act in this sterotypical way, or have sexual desires close to those of the posted "studies," you've had a very narrow and limited view of the gay population. If you passed me on the street, you'd have no damn idea.

Edit:

The men who do act according to this stereotype, at least in my experience, do because that's the way they feel comfortable. They spent enough of their lives being what other people want them to be, now they live for themselves. They don't do it to display that they're gay, they do it because they don't care what the world thinks of them. If anything, the stereotypical gay man has more balls than I could imagine. At the very least I think they should be respected for having the brass to live the way they want, and not the way the world tells them they should.

[This message has been edited by Davanman (edited 07-11-2004).]

quote:Originally posted by Sniper Piper:

Who did the research?

Who made the Conclusions?

These guys did....(long bullshit list of fabricated references)



I'll have you know I went to the trouble to look up many of these alleged references while at the public library today. Not one of them turned out to be valid. The articles existed, but none of them had direct quotes, and it's a stretch to even say they took information out of context. They're completely fabricated.

Didn't think anyone would bother checking up on something that can't be easily looked up on the internet, did ya?

Woah, Cindy, that's rockin'. I'm so very glad you did what the rest of us were too lazy to do.

quote:Originally posted by deadlycindy:

I'll have you know I went to the trouble to look up many of these alleged references while at the public library today. Not one of them turned out to be valid. The articles existed, but none of them had direct quotes, and it's a stretch to even say they took information out of context. They're completely fabricated.

Didn't think anyone would bother checking up on something that can't be easily looked up on the internet, did ya? ]

Pwned! Twinkie.

quote:Originally posted by deadlycindy:

I'll have you know I went to the trouble to look up many of these alleged references while at the public library today. Not one of them turned out to be valid. The articles existed, but none of them had direct quotes, and it's a stretch to even say they took information out of context. They're completely fabricated.

Anybody can make a BULLSHIT statement like....

quote:"I went to library, and checked them out, its all fabricated"



Im a reasonable fella...post five examples of how these guys took a fact out of context and misrepresented the research.

"pwnded"....hardly.



[This message has been edited by Sniper Piper (edited 07-11-2004).]

As I said, there were NO quotes and really, nothing relevant to anything fag facts said in any of the articles I looked at. Do your own damn research, ya lazy fuck. That means to actually go look at the articles (yes, you might have to talk to a reference librarian and use the microfiche!)

The references were just NAMED, but not used.

quote:Originally posted by deadlycindy:

As I said, there were NO quotes and really, nothing relevant to anything fag facts said in any of the articles I looked at. Do your own damn research, ya lazy fuck. That means to actually go look at the articles (yes, you might have to talk to a reference librarian and use the microfiche!)

The references were just NAMED, but not used.

<A HREF="http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v294/SniperPiper/Bs.jpg">http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v294/SniperPiper/Bs.jpg" width="90" height="90 (http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v294/SniperPiper/Bs.jpg" width="90" height="90)</A>

Not even one example....we'll just take your word for it

I'd like to step in here and de-derail the thread. The original assertion is that people are not born gay. Imagine that I'd started a thread "People are born great athletes.....BULLSHIT" and said that great athletes are great athletes because they want to be, not because they're born to it. Other people disagree, showing that some athletes seem to be born to excel at physical feats. Then someone comes in and posts a long list of "Jock Facts" intended to show that athletes are deviant, disgusting, and should be loathed and feared, and the debate now becomes whether "Jock Facts" accurately portrays athletes or not.

But the "Jock Facts" don't matter, if we're really talking about whether or not people are born athletes.

Of course we're not really talking about whether or not people are born athletes - err, gay. Those who want to assert that nobody is born gay (well, those posting in this thread anyway) do so because it seems more acceptable to hate people for what they choose to do than for what they are born to be. So, for example, it's more acceptable to hate feminists than to hate women, because half the population is born female but nobody is born a feminist.

Are gays born gay? The evidence presented here for "no" boils down to "because I think so." Most people are righthanded, a few are lefthanded, and even fewer are ambidextrous. People seem to have their handedness from the earliest possible age. It's something we're born to, not something we choose -- despite there being no obvious physical difference between those of different handedness. If you believe that people do something so unusual as writing with the left hand, why is it hard to believe that some are attracted to their own sex, and this not because they've been recruited by the Gay Conspiracy, but because of embedded impulses?

It's hard to look up scattered references from print dating from the 1980s and 1970s. I'm not up to the task. But those facts are irrelevant to whether or not people are born gay and should be irrelevant to how any single gay person is treated. You could cite census and medical statistics about white heterosexual males to me all day long and not have a single relevant insight about what's actually important to me, or who I really am, despite that I'm a white heterosexual male. You seek statistics that reveal GAY - THE PHENOMENON while completely ignoring GAYS - THE ACTUAL PEOPLE. Maybe you think that gays are a "problem" that can be "solved" with sufficient applications of education and facts. They're not, they can't, and history is not on your side. Every day are born babies who will grow up not loathing homosexuals, and every day are buried old people who did.

If nobody is born gay, then nobody is born straight, either. I go back to me Coke/Pepsi point in the earlier post. You may not be born knowing you like Coke more than Pepsi. You figure it out later. But that doesn't mean it's any less true. It goes the other way, too, for people who like Pepsi more than Coke. You can't change it. Maybe you're not born knowing it, but you need experience to know what you like. You can apply this to just about anything.

quote:

The references were just NAMED, but not used.

Thats Quite a statement to make without one example!

<A HREF="http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v294/SniperPiper/bs3.bmp">http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v294/SniperPiper/bs3.bmp" width="90" height="90 (http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v294/SniperPiper/bs3.bmp" width="90" height="90)</A>

quote:Originally posted by Sniper Piper:

Thats Quite a statement to make without one example!





how the hell do you make an example out of something that is not there? cindy said the sources were fabricated. for an example, do you want her to post the entire actual article?

you're a moron.

Well, I now know why I didn't come in here...

quote:Originally posted by badandy00:



how the hell do you make an example out of something that is not there?

Didn't saddam get fucked over for not providing anough evidence that he didn't have WMDs. I always thought that was dumb.

Awesome work Cindy. If you don't believe it Sniper, look it up yourself and post evidence that it is true. (I told you all that stuff was made up)

/leaves with Gus

Like Ive already Posted.....

quote:Anybody can make a BULLSHIT statement like "I went to the Library and Looked those references up, its all fabricated"

I highly doubt she spent all that time looking them all up.

I highly doubt whoever made that article just made them references up like the moderator claims.

Some of those references are articles in a magazine....couldnt the moderator post an article and ask where they came up with the fact?

This just shows how Biased you guys are.....and how desperate your moderator is to disprove the article, to stoop the level of a Liar and make a bullshit statement....LOL!!!!

As it stands, the moderator hasnt proven Guilt...so Im not going to prove Innocence. The moderator had a perfect oppurtunity to shut me up.....from henceforth I will keep plastering all of totse.com with Fag Facts (http://www.spies.com/~gus/ran/0012/antiporn/fagfacts.html)

About 50% of the women on death row are dykes (12). (http://www.spies.com/~gus/ran/0012/antiporn/fagfacts.html)

How Might Homosexuality Develop?

Putting the Pieces Together (http://www.narth.com/docs/pieces.html)

quote:Originally posted by Sniper Piper:

Like Ive already Posted.....

I highly doubt she spent all that time looking them all up.

I highly doubt whoever made that article just made them references up like the moderator claims.

Some of those references are articles in a magazine....couldnt the moderator post an article and ask where they came up with the fact?

This just shows how Biased you guys are.....and how desperate your moderator is to disprove the article, to stoop the level of a Liar and make a bullshit statement....LOL!!!!



Your "arguments" are pathetically faulty.

First of all, it didn't take me "all that time" to look this stuff up. Doing research is easy for me since I do a lot of it. It's a simple matter of scribbling something on a piece of paper, handing it to the reference librarian, waiting for my materials, and then reading them. Took me maybe 15-20 minutes, possibly longer since I'm easily distracted by other articles. Many of those magazine articles are written at an 8th grade reading level so they don't take much time to read.

Whenever I'm reading something that's footnoted with references, I always take the time to check at least some of the references. As a former teaching assistant to undergrads (something all grad students have to do) it's natural to develop a skepticism toward references provided, especially on controversial issues.

Obviously, you do not feel this is necessary and have chosen to believe that the references you see are true. This is not an intelligent approach to learning new things. I don't think you want to follow up on this because you don't want your beliefs questioned or challenged.

There are practical reasons why I won't bother to post an article here. It takes time and money to photocopy the articles, and then additional time to type out the entire article in a post. That's just a tad unreasonable to expect someone to do.

That's why I called you a "lazy fuck" because you're perfectly capable of a simple task such as going to the library and looking up these articles yourself.

Besides, if you don't do that, how do you know I would be transcribing the articles accurately, word for word? You need to learn about how information is obtained and disseminated before you shoot off your mouth about who's bullshitting whom.

quote:deadlycindy- Not one of them turned out to be valid. The articles existed, but none of them had direct quotes, and it's a stretch to even say they took information out of context.

OOHHH, this is why Fag Facts (http://www.spies.com/~gus/ran/0012/antiporn/fagfacts.html) is "Bullshit!"

The References arent Direct Quotes, Heres what another site had to say about the Fag Fact references.....

quote:Note: The facts and statistics contained below are nothing more than a summary of various sources (which are listed at the bottom of this page). You may or may not agree with them. You may have seen different numbers in different sources. Everything provided below is information that most homosexuals don't want you to know about, but it needs to be known.The majority of the statistics below are from several years ago.For more recent information, see our Fag News section, and a document about the Homosexual Lifestyle created in August of 2002 for Topeka City Council. (http://evilcoffeechick.com/dpd/)

I'm not going to trust information from fools ignorant enough to define 15-20 years ago as 'several'.

Single 1

Couple 2

Few 3

Several 4-10

Many 11-19

Lots 22-99

Didn't those bigots go through that shit in school? Oh wait, they were too busy hating homosexuals to learn anything...that must explain why Sniper's a fucking retard.

The Reason Fags say they were born that way is because it makes their "Lifestyle" acceptable in your eyes.

How can you pick on somebody that is born that way....it would be like picking on a Handicap.

There is NO "Gay Gene!"

Is There a "Gay Gene"? (http://www.narth.com/docs/istheregene.html)

quote:Originally posted by Little Pea:

[B]As humans we are highly adaptable and intelligent. We can change ourselves in more dramatic and numerous ways than any other creature on earth.

[B]



Ok this has nonthing to do with the topic but how do you know there arnt aliens ?

Where not "the most intelligent creature".

quote:Originally posted by Sniper Piper:

The Reason Fags say they were born that way is because it makes their "Lifestyle" acceptable in your eyes.

Is There a "Gay Gene"? (http://www.narth.com/docs/istheregene.html)

Then how do you explain genetic distinctions between homosexuals and heterosexuals? It's not like the homosexuals are breeding and focusing their genes. Besides, even if was proven that homosexuality was a choice made in teenage years or beyond, when the human was capable of logical thought, I'd think no less of them or their decision.

As Gray himself has told you though, homosexual thought starts at a young age, even before puberty and a true interest in women or men occur.

[This message has been edited by 655 (edited 07-13-2004).]

quote:As Gray himself has told you though, homosexual thought starts at a young age, even before puberty and a true interest in women or men occur.



Yeah, but thats not necessarily an argument if favor of a "Homosexual Gene" but of Enviromental factors.

I wanna see two giraffes have sex.

Anyway I dont beleive People are born gay or choose to be gay. It's how they grow up. What they are exposed to and what they are not exposed to. Maybe some people are born gay while others choose to be homosexuals. They can choose because we can choose anything we want and to decide to be gay (whether you are or aren't) can happen just like choosing whats for dinner. (Beef, its what's for dinner). Sexual Orientation probably comes about the same way we choose political viewpoints or any viewpoint. But hey, what do I know, I just have common sense.

quote:Originally posted by OsirisGuy429:

Sexual Orientation probably comes about the same way we choose political viewpoints or any viewpoint. But hey, what do I know, I just have common sense.

Apparently not much. Yeah sure decide you want beef for supper, doesn't mean that you like the taste of beef. If you do like the taste of beef, that's probably why your having it for supper. Not because that's what your mom urged you to eat as a child. Think about it. Gay people can't choose to like our own sex(es), it's just built into us. I could be straight, but I don't like being with women as much as I like being with men. Why should I spend my life doing something that I don't like? It's ludacris. Anyway, I'm probably going to have to post at least once more, so I might as well stop there

Edit: Grammer and spelling corrections.

[This message has been edited by Davanman (edited 07-13-2004).]

quote:Anyway I dont beleive People are born gay or choose to be gay. It's how they grow up. What they are exposed to and what they are not exposed to.

Finally, someone who can see through the fog of Political Corectness and come up with their own opinion.

quote:Originally posted by Sniper Piper:

Is My Little Baby Going to Go Gay? (http://www.landoverbaptist.org/news0704/homoprevention.html)



You know that Landover is a parody making fun of people like you, correct?

What have gay people ever done to you? I don't have a problem with them, they neevr did anything to me. I used to gay bash and call them "stupid fags!" Then something amazing happened. I grew the fuck up. Gay people aren't the materialization of evil, get over it, this thread should die.

c2

Anybody notice that DeadlyCindy isnt running her bigmouth in this thread anymore

It takes approximately $300,000 to take care of each AIDS victim, so thanks to the promiscuous lifestyle of fags, medical insurance rates have been skyrocketing for all of us(10). (http://www.spies.com/~gus/ran/0012/antiporn/fagfacts.html)

We have things called lives we need to attend to. We can't be searching the internet for biased opinions backed up with what statistics suggest about something or someone that pissess us off. Keep posting your gay bashing posts; no one seems to care. In all honesty, you have used the word "fag" more than any other person I have ever talked to. Don't take that as a compliment.

c2

There's some study that suggests that gays are born gay but it isn't a gene thing. It's a hormonal thing.

Often, mothers particularly under stress will release adrenaline into the male baby, rather than testosterone. This means that the brain is still feminized, rather than becoming masculinized.

Evidence that supports this is that experiments were conducted known as the phantom womb tests. In these tests, subjects were injected with oestrogen. Over the next few days their blood was measured for levels of different hormones. Something like 2/3 of gay men were found to have pregnancy related hormones such as LH in their blood levels, straight men did not.

This showed that those with pregnancy hormones in their blood levels had female brains, the brains believed that there was a womb in the body and hormones were therefore needed. To conclude, most gay men have feminized brains, which they were given at birth. Nothing to do with genes. The end.

quote:Originally posted by ZeroMalarki:

There's some study that suggests that gays are born gay but it isn't a gene thing. It's a hormonal thing.

Often, mothers particularly under stress will release adrenaline into the male baby, rather than testosterone. This means that the brain is still feminized, rather than becoming masculinized.

Evidence that supports this is that experiments were conducted known as the phantom womb tests. In these tests, subjects were injected with oestrogen. Over the next few days their blood was measured for levels of different hormones. Something like 2/3 of gay men were found to have pregnancy related hormones such as LH in their blood levels, straight men did not.

This showed that those with pregnancy hormones in their blood levels had female brains, the brains believed that there was a womb in the body and hormones were therefore needed. To conclude, most gay men have feminized brains, which they were given at birth. Nothing to do with genes. The end.

LOL!!!!!

I might go with that explanation....however, I know plenty of "Masculine" Queers! Also, what these "Feminine" Faggots do to the others Ass is most definatly MASCULINE.

quote:Originally posted by Sniper Piper:

Anybody notice that DeadlyCindy isnt running her bigmouth in this thread anymore...

You never responded to my last post, idiot. Since you've failed to respond to any other posts intelligently, I wasn't going to hold my breath waiting, and I don't find it necessary to post childish crap like "Anyone notice that Sniper Piper isn't running his big mouth about fallacious references anymore?"

quote:Originally posted by Sniper Piper:

America is a sick society, and like Hitler recognized, the masses are Dumb. The Masses dont think for themselves, the masses respond to "Repetion", if you tell them "Homosexuality" is a "Lifestyle" your "Born that way" night and day...afterwhile people start to pick it up and believe it.





when i read that, the nuremburg rally came to mind, it works the same way with you, if you say the jews caused our weak economy, and if you keep on repeating(key word) it, theyre going to believe it, i believe that terms called brainwash.

i do believe youre born with homosexuality, and youre not influenced into it by life.

Men and women were designed so that they could be together and produce children. If everyone was gay then the human species would cease to exist. How then could homosexuality be considered "normal" when it goes against the way nature intended? Homosexulaity is not a new idea. It has existed since ancient times. EVERY society that has become openly gay has failed. This is because it goes against natures plan. The Romans beacame openly gay so did the Greeks. Both these cultures failed. I look at our own country and see the similarities. 15 years ago homosexuality was something people didnt talk about. Gays did their own thing. Now, liberals who want "tolerance" and all that bullshit, are changing that. Look at shows like "Queer Eye" and "Will and Grace". MTV also does a lot on gay tolerance and shit. Society is trying to brainwash our culture into accepting their lifestyle as normal. What is going to happen? Kids wont know how a real family acts because they will have two gays parents. I dont see how this cant mess up a young kid. A child needs a mother and a father. A mom has always been the caring nurturing one. The father has always been there to protect and provide for his family. There is a balance and harmony to this. The gay culture is trying to f*** all of this up. They want to be able to adopt kids and raise them in their queer lifestyle. I think this is wrong. We shouldn't try to defy nature. We should just stick with normal families with a mother and a fater.

yes, but can you tell me which societies havent failed? are we talking like the ottoman empire? that kind of society or what/

quote:Originally posted by deadlycindy:

You never responded to my last post, idiot.

What do you call this.........?

quote:

deadlycindy- Not one of them turned out to be valid. The articles existed, but none of them had direct quotes, and it's a stretch to even say they took information out of context.

OOHHH, this is why Fag Facts (http://www.spies.com/~gus/ran/0012/antiporn/fagfacts.html) is "Bullshit!"

The References arent Direct Quotes, Heres what another site had to say about the Fag Fact references.....



quote:

Note: The facts and statistics contained below are nothing more than a summary of various sources (which are listed at the bottom of this page). You may or may not agree with them. You may have seen different numbers in different sources. Everything provided below is information that most homosexuals don't want you to know about, but it needs to be known.The majority of the statistics below are from several years ago.For more recent information, see our Fag News section, and a document about the Homosexual Lifestyle created in August of 2002 for Topeka City Council. (http://evilcoffeechick.com/dpd/)



[This message has been edited by Sniper Piper (edited 07-15-2004).]

quote:Originally posted by Sniper Piper:

What do you call this.........?



&lt;deadlycindy- Not one of them turned out to be valid. The articles existed, but none of them had direct quotes, and it's a stretch to even say they took information out of context.&gt;

&lt;sniper piper-OOHHH, this is why Fag Facts is "Bullshit!"

The References arent [b]Direct Quotes, Heres what another site had to say about the Fag Fact references.....&gt;

What do I call that? A non-sequitur comment on not my last post that you didn't respond to, but the previous one.

I never said the articles didn't exist. They do. But they weren't used for reference material in a way that proved any points made by "Fag Facts". None of those "facts" were gleaned from the articles I looked at. The articles I looked at had nothing to do with the "information" in "Fag Facts". The only thing in common was the subject of homosexuality.

quote: The articles I looked at had nothing to do with the "information" in "Fag Facts". The only thing in common was the subject of homosexuality.[/B]

You admit...

1. The articles exist.

2. The articles are about Homosexuality.

But Fag Facts (http://www.spies.com/~gus/ran/0012/antiporn/fagfacts.html) just conviently referenced the list of references?

How stupid do you think the posters on totse are?

The BullShit is so thick...I can smell it through my Computer!!!!

This is what I think happened, DeadlyCindy "maybe" looked up one or two of the references, failing to find a direct quote dismissed them as "Bullshit." No, suprise, thats what Liberal Clones do when they find a fact that contradicts their Dogma. Dismiss it for any reason.

I dont buy your story.......

ps. Notice how through the course of this debate, DeadlyCindy never mentioned which ones she looked at....personally, I would have mentioned these details at the beginning.

quote:Originally posted by SKS_7.62:

A mom has always been the caring nurturing one. The father has always been there to protect and provide for his family.

So you're not only a stupid homophobe, but you're sexist too. You must have an amazing social circle. What you've admitted is that you don't think women should work, that no men should stay home, that single parents shouldn't be allowed to keep their kids, and that you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

quote:Originally posted by Sniper Piper:

No, your wrong....

I dont enjoy urine showers.....

Urinating on each other ("golden showers") and torture has doubled among fags since the 1940s, and fisting has increased astronomically (7). (http://www.spies.com/~gus/ran/0012/antiporn/fagfacts.html)

I dont stick my arm up somebodies pooper..

33% of fags admit to fisting (inserting the hand, sometimes part of the arm, into the rectum of his partner) (7). (http://www.spies.com/~gus/ran/0012/antiporn/fagfacts.html)



I dont rub feces on me or anybody else....

17% of fags eat and/or rub the feces of their partners on themselves (4). (http://www.spies.com/~gus/ran/0012/antiporn/fagfacts.html)



Ok, I am seriously starting to dislike this guy. I read up to here and had to stop because I have to get to work soon and I wanted to respond before I left. Sniper you are using those facts to back up your claims like they where written by god him self, and I really think you need to understand somethings. One, as many people have said all those books where written in the 80's. thats 20 years ago, black people where still being dragged from the back of trucks back then, I think it is safe to say that discrimination was a bit high. Two, like the cowboy guy I am gay as well and I didn't wake up one morning and think to my self "gee, I wonder what it would be like spending the rest of my life sleeping with guys" I'm sorry that just doesn't happen.

I love the part where you say

"No, your wrong. It would not have spread in a "Moral" Hetro society! Thank your Athiestic/Evolutionary God defying crowd....you got your "Sexual Freedom" and we're all paying for it."

Just a little tidbit for you, all the dieseases(sp?) such as TB, AIDS, etc, where spawned and then brought to america, by get this, straight, heterosexual, puritans! You know the god fearing people who burned witches at the stake and used gay people as firewood.

Oh another thing, your little rant on bondage, tourture and golden showers, and so on and so forth. You may want take a look at any large city such as Toronto (I'm in Canada, first city to come to mind) There are more straight people practicing vise's like those then you will ever find in gay people, percentage wise too so you can't say that it's because there are less gay people, and should you ask where my proof is, just walk aroung a big city at night and find all the clubs, there is a lot more straight ones then there are gay ones.

Your little post that goes "No your wrong, I don't do this and that etc." I am going to let you in on a secret, just because YOU don't do it, does not mean that your straight friends don't.

And to start my wrap up, you know that site where you got your lovely little "fag facts" from, you really should look around, There is some intresting, if not suggestive things. I particularly like that article on "will my baby go gay" there was a part about not letting your "manly son" go into his sisters room except for "typical christian experimentation" hmmmm... I'm sorry but that is just to easy, tell me sniper did you screw your sister? Oh, there was another part about dunking your baby in ice water every day for the first 3 weeks of it's life, or something like that. Now to me, considering that fact that you are supposed to keep babys warm because of there fragile immune system that just really isn't a good idea and I would say bordering on abuse, what's next when your baby starts crying you've got to shake the demons out of it? Wait, you dont shake it, you drop off your baby to the Creation Science Laboratory for the remainder of the year and for a determination of whether he is worth having back. Yes because thats a good idea. Oh, I have got to go, I will come back later and finish up, but please while I'm gone, please share more of you right wing christian bullshit knowledge, I just can't get enough of it

quote:Originally posted by Sniper Piper:

but Fag Facts just conviently referenced the list of references?

Exactly. Finally, you get it. Anyone can go to a search engine or even the old Reader's Guide and look under "homosexuality" and get a list of articles which contain info about homosexuality, and list them as a "reference" whether they actually referred to them or not.

quote:How stupid do you think the posters on totse are?

That's a question I would ask you. I think they're smart enough not to believe everything they read just because it's in print and followed with a laundry list of generic references. I think they're smart enough to question what they read, and if they so desire, seek out the references themselves.

You, on the other hand, choose to believe something simply because it's in print and it aligns with your personal beliefs. You still haven't bothered to look up the material yourself. As far as "how dumb I think some totse posters are" as it applies solely to you, I'd say extremely.

Also, speak for yourself, not others. Or do you not have enough conviction in your beliefs?

This is an issue about information and questioning sources and references. Only a fool looks at a list of articles and says "Wow, with all those references, they must know what they're talking about". If you ever get a university education, you might understand all this, but for now, I can see it's going right over your head.

quote:Originally posted by [G-Prime]:

Homosexuality is by choice, and wrong.

Nope. Poor assumption.

quote:Originally posted by silentdark:

Ok, I am seriously starting to dislike this guy. I read up to here and had to stop because I have to get to work soon and I wanted to respond before I left. Sniper you are using those facts to back up your claims like they where written by god him self, and I really think you need to understand somethings. [B]One, as many people have said all those books where written in the 80's. thats 20 years ago, black people where still being dragged from the back of trucks back then,

So far, thats been the only legitimate argument brought up, that Fag Facts is outdated. My thoughts as to that study was that the study was made back when Fudgepackers werent the protected species that they are today!



quote:I think it is safe to say that discrimination was a bit high. Two, like the cowboy guy I am gay as well and I didn't wake up one morning and think to my self "gee, I wonder what it would be like spending the rest of my life sleeping with guys" I'm sorry that just doesn't happen.

From personal experience, I cant recall the day I became interested in the oposite Sex, I dont recall how that developed... I dont buy your story either.

quote:I love the part where you say

"No, your wrong. It would not have spread in a "Moral" Hetro society! Thank your Athiestic/Evolutionary God defying crowd....you got your "Sexual Freedom" and we're all paying for it."

Just a little tidbit for you, all the dieseases(sp?) such as TB, AIDS, etc, where spawned and then brought to america, by get this, straight, heterosexual, puritans! You know the god fearing people who burned witches at the stake and used gay people as firewood.

Youre gonna have to post a link on the "TB/Aids" and Puritans....Ive just looked a two histories of Aids...I didnt see anything at mentioning Puritans!

quote:Oh another thing, your little rant on bondage, tourture and golden showers, and so on and so forth. You may want take a look at any large city such as Toronto (I'm in Canada, first city to come to mind) There are more straight people practicing vise's like those then you will ever find in gay people, percentage wise too so you can't say that it's because there are less gay people, and should you ask where my proof is, just walk aroung a big city at night and find all the clubs, there is a lot more straight ones then there are gay ones.

Ill take your word for it! There are alot of Sexual Freaks out there, Straight and Queer!



quote:And to start my wrap up, you know that site where you got your lovely little "fag facts" from, you really should look around, There is some intresting, if not suggestive things. I particularly like that article on "will my baby go gay" there was a part about not letting your "manly son" go into his sisters room except for "typical christian experimentation"

I added that site as a Joke! That kid peeing straight up...LOL!!!!

quote: right wing christian bullshit knowledge, I just can't get enough of it

My conclusion, Fags are a plague to this planet...end of story!!!

...and you're a plague on totse.

quote:Originally posted by Sniper Piper:

My conclusion, Fags are a plague to this planet...end of story!!!



Dude, I've heard somewhere that 4/5 homophobes are repressed homosexuals themselves.. you're not looking so good now.

Oh and as for the study, the study dates back to the seventies, so new evidence may have disproved it.. however there's a few things that were looked at which I'm gonna bring up.

One thing is that the phantom womb test was tested on a hermaphrodite Mrs Went.

Mrs Went was born with a vagina and grew up as a woman, when she was married she tried with her husband for a baby but found some difficulty.

She went to the doctor and found that her vagina was too short and further investigation showed she actually had hidden male genitals. She wasn't going to be able to have children.

Later on, she had the phantom womb test and her brain appeared to be masculine, yet she passed all psychological tests, convincing that she was happily married, as a woman.

Personally, I don't feel that homosexuality is chosen, I'm a little confused myself currently but I don't want to be. I'm not so sure on it being an inborn thing, I believe it could be a mix between environmental and biological factors.

Gender identity has always been thought of to be a mix of environmental and biological.

quote:Originally posted by ZeroMalarki:

[B] Dude, I've heard somewhere that 4/5 homophobes are repressed homosexuals themselves.. you're not looking so good now.

I was wondering when somebody was going to make that argument.....believe me, I dont find Men attractive!

Heres what some Phyciatrists say about how Homosexuality develops....

How Might Homosexuality Develop? (http://www.narth.com/docs/pieces.html)



[This message has been edited by Sniper Piper (edited 07-16-2004).]

Well this will end the debate and question about homosexuality on totse and the entire world for that matter. If Homosexuals are born homosexual then why do countries like america have more of them than countries like India( 1 billion)? Does America have special genes floating in the atmosphere (exclusive to america) that might make children gay? I think not.....



-The Battler

People are born gay. Theres people that are guys who act feminine and dress up like girls or play with girls all the time from the time they were 2. People are just like that.



They can do whatever the fuck makes em happy. Thats my take on it

quote:Originally posted by The Battler:

Well this will end the debate and question about homosexuality on totse and the entire world for that matter. If Homosexuals are born homosexual then why do countries like america have more of them than countries like India( 1 billion)? Does America have special genes floating in the atmosphere (exclusive to america) that might make children gay? I think not.....



-The Battler

Well, I'm still not sure if it's a thing that is innate, but that debate doesn't really fly that well. In a country like India, there is a lot more social stigma attached to being gay, partially because they're a fair bit more committed to their religions. That and the fact that arranged marraiges are so common that if homosexuality was to break up a marraige, it cancels any agreements made.

quote:Originally posted by SephirothAngelus:

People are born gay. Theres people that are guys who act feminine and dress up like girls or play with girls all the time from the time they were 2. People are just like that.



They can do whatever the fuck makes em happy. Thats my take on it

Um, that feminine bit doesn't really add up either I'm afraid. A feminine man isn't necessarily a gay one, a gay man isn't necessarily a feminine one either.

Your point is based more on gender identity than sexuality, as for a younger age, children can be put to play with each other by their parents and at such a young age, gender identity ideals are also unlikely to have been developed to the high levels where they know ti's not normal for a male to wear a female's clothes. You really need to look into the different stages of child gender identity to understand man.

quote:Originally posted by The Battler:

Well this will end the debate and question about homosexuality on totse and the entire world for that matter. If Homosexuals are born homosexual then why do countries like america have more of them than countries like India( 1 billion)? Does America have special genes floating in the atmosphere (exclusive to america) that might make children gay? I think not.....



-The Battler

Right on!!!

Fags show up in Societies that have alot of spare time, and are saturated with Sex...... 3rd world countries, dont have big fag populations. Ill personally vouch for Mexico, I lived there.... The whole time there I only seen one Pair of Dykes...in the Rich area of town.

I would like to use the 100th post in this thread to make 2 requests.

1: Sniper Piper, I know you sincerely thought that that page was real, so I won't hold that against you, but a mod actually went out and did real research to confirm that the facts were false and the sources sighted made no mention of the statistics supposedly taken from them. Please stop sighting that source. If some of the statistics are true, go to the library and scan pages from the books you want to sight. As it is, you are only misleading people who didn't see the post confirming the page was bullshit.

2: Let this thread die now. It's okay, it's its time.



PS: I think I'm going to email the webmaster of that site asking him why he made stuff up...

EDIT: The site has no email address to contact anyone. Why wouldn't he want anyone contacting him...

Sorry for not editing the above post, but I don't want anyone being able claim that I edited it to change content in response to a later reply.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Green Lantern:

2: Let this thread die now. It's okay, it's its time.

QUOTE]

Agreed. We are obviously not going to convince Sniper that gays aren't terrible people, and Sniper won't convince us that gays are terrible people. It's been stalemate ever since Fag Facts was first brought up.

I think it's time this thread dies also. Fags aren't terrible people and the point of the thread was to look at the question whether or not people were born gay.

Again Sniper, read above about my counter point against the India thing. There's probably a lot more who are repressed homosexuals, or just never admit it, continuing their life as a straight person.

EDIT: Sorry about that final bit, I just had to argue that point out. I enjoy debating too much.

[This message has been edited by ZeroMalarki (edited 07-16-2004).]

I myself am gay.... Ive felt it since I was 9 years old, but I really knew when I was about 13 or so.

I only read the first two pages, because I dont like the ramblings of haters.

Anyway... Im pretty sure I was born gay... Why the hell would I 'choose' to get hated on all my life? It could be from a hormonal balance when youre in your mothers whoom, nobody really knows.

Also, I saw one idiot say something about pedophiles, I bet he doesnt even know what one is. Ill post a few definitions so he can understand.

Pedophile(Noun) - An adult who is sexually attracted to a child or children.

Child - A person between birth and puberty.

Also, to clarify the child part, They dont mean DURING puberty, they mean from birth TO puberty.

So if a 19 year old is attracted to say a 14-15 year old, that doesnt make them a pedophile.

quote:Originally posted by Sniper Piper:

Ill personally vouch for Mexico, I lived there.... The whole time there I only seen one Pair of Dykes...in the Rich area of town.

Well that settles it, if Sniper only saw one pair of dykes, then the gay population has to be low. Everyone knows that gay people have to advertise, especially when they fear what others might think or do. Idiot.

Heh; I was thinking the same thing, Davanman. We don't wear neon signs or anything! In fact, everyone is always surprised to find out that I'm gay.

This thread is hilarious. I especially loved the statistic that 50% of all dykes are in prison. So that's where they all are! And I've been wasting all this time as a college professor. Maybe I should go commit a crime or something...

Once again, Sniper Piper versus the Brainwashed Masses.....

To GreenLantern....

quote:1: Sniper Piper, I know you sincerely thought that that page was real, so I won't hold that against you, but a mod actually went out and did real research to confirm that the facts were false and the sources sighted made no mention of the statistics supposedly taken from them. Please stop sighting that source. If some of the statistics are true, go to the library and scan pages from the books you want to sight. As it is, you are only misleading people who didn't see the post confirming the page was bullshit.

Two things Greenlantern,

1. Nothing was Confirmed, a "Claim/Accusation" was made, but not proven in anyway shape or form.

2. I reside in America, its customary and traditional that a person "Proves Guilt" not the other way around..... Ill give the article the "Benefit of the doubt!"

Heres what every Faglover on totse.com wants disproven. (http://www.spies.com/~gus/ran/0012/antiporn/fagfacts.html)



To Davanman...

quote:Well that settles it, if Sniper only saw one pair of dykes, then the gay population has to be low. Everyone knows that gay people have to advertise, especially when they fear what others might think or do. Idiot.

1. Mexico in general is a very sexually promiscuous country.

2. The locals will even tell you that Queers are rare.

To Lolita....

quote:I especially loved the statistic that 50% of all dykes are in prison.

Queers are only 2% of the population......ever read about Serial Killers and the Homosexual connection?



To everybody that wants this thread killed....

It wasnt me that bounced this thread from page two...twice. Also, Thats what totse is about....debate.

Well, I assure you that I'm not a serial killer. Not YET, anyway. &lt;diabolical laughter&gt;

In fact, virtually none of the statistics on that page apply to me or anyone else I know that's gay.

It did make entertaining reading, though. (Drinking enema water?!) Oh, and the part about how fags hate Christianity was also enlightening. I actually teach Christianity to undergraduates.

Well, whoever wrote it definitely needs to go back to school, though. None of the sources are cited correctly! They'd get an F from me. :P

Peace and love, man. :-)

Also, I have to add that the "Fag Facts" page is not a credible source. (I haven't read all of this thread, so forgive me if I'm repeating what others have said before.)

First of all, who wrote it? A professor? A scientist? Some random Joe Schmoe with access to the Internet? You can't say for sure because the author and his or her credentials are listed nowhere on the page. C'mon now - these are just basic researching skills.

To be brief, let's look at one of the most ludicrous statements on the list:

Judge John Martaugh, chief magistrate of the New York City Criminal Court has said, "Homosexuals account for half the murders in large cities" (10).

Call it intuition, but this struck me as highly unlikely. Let's look at the source of the statement:

(10) Kaifetz, J. "Homosexual Rights Are Concern for Some," Post-Tribune, 18 December 1992.

Who, pray tell, is Mr. Kaifetz? A brief Web search indicates that he's simply someone that wrote an editorial to a local newspaper. He might be a doctor, he might be a businessman, he might be a janitor, or he might be a complete lunatic. There's really no way to know for sure. Thus, there's also no reason to believe anything he says.

In the academic world, the credibility of a source is based upon the author's credentials. A professor of quantum physics is an authority on the subject of quantum physics. 15 year old Suzie that happens to have Internet access is not an authority on quantum physics. See how it works?

These are just the basics of conducting quality research. Sheesh, doesn't anybody go to college anymore?

Ah, my intuition was correct. I found the main page for that site:

http://www.spies.com/~gus/ran/0012/antiporn/

Turns out the author is a 19 year old high-school kid. Heh. A regular scholar!

He supports prison sentences for those who participate in oral sex and those who use birth control. He's in favor of a national dress code. Oh, and don't forget the death penalty for adultery!

Yeah, he sounds...sane. &lt;rolls eyes&gt;

Lolita,

The guy DOES sound like a winner.

"I also support a ban on interracial marriage. While I am not racist, I believe that God intends people to marry within their own race. Any and all interracial marriages currently licensed should immediately be annulled, with any children born to said couple, allowed only to marry with other children of interracial couples. All races ought to have equal opportunity in employment, pay, etc. Therefore, I believe that Affirmative Action is racist against white people and ought to be abolished."

Just wondering, but Sniper, what are your views on interracial marriage?

quote:Originally posted by Lolita:

Ah, my intuition was correct. I found the main page for that site:

http://www.spies.com/~gus/ran/0012/antiporn/

Turns out the author is a 19 year old high-school kid. Heh. A regular scholar!

He supports prison sentences for those who participate in oral sex and those who use birth control. He's in favor of a national dress code. Oh, and don't forget the death penalty for adultery!

Yeah, he sounds...sane. &lt;rolls eyes&gt;

Sigh. I already posted this way upthread. Nobody reads my posts. I think I need throw in a little more bold and ALL CAPS and perhaps the odd photoshopped picture of Gustave. Then people wouldn't skip over them.

But I don't think the highschooler originally wrote that. I think Fred Phelps, of "God Hates Fags" fame, is the more likely author. Search for "fag facts" and his page is #1, in any case.

Oh shit. This is better.

"I believe in Singapore-style anti-terrorist legislation. I propose that anyone suspected of being a terrorist ought to be required, if necessary, to serve up to 5 years in prison without formal charges being brought forward. This will help stop the wave of terrorism sweeping America today."

1984 all the way, baby.



"I enjoy politics. I hope to run for local office in the near future. If I am successful, I will likely run for higher office later on down the road. I will fight as a moralist. I will try to institute the above goals of mine to restore the traditional Judeo-Christian values that our Puritan forefathers founded the United States upon at Plymouth Rock."

Holy hell, no. Please God no. If he would get elected, watch taxes sky rocket with NO personal freedom. Yep, he would make America into the master race. HAIL HITLER... I mean... DAVID MCNAMARA!

quote:Of fags questioned in one study, 43% admitted to 500 or more partners in a lifetime, 28% admitted to 1000 or more in a lifetime, and of these people, 79% said that half of those partners were total strangers, and 70% of those sexual contacts were one night stands (or, as one fag admits in the film "The Castro," one minute stands) (3). Also, it is a favorite past-time of many fags to go to "cruisy areas" and have anonymous sex.

Cruising for Sex (http://www.cruisingforsex.com/)

quote:Originally posted by Sniper Piper:

Cruising for Sex (http://www.cruisingforsex.com/)

Biased surveys are great sources, right? :\

Hey, I'm sorry, Gray.

In one of my posts, I did say, "I haven't read all of this thread, so forgive me if I'm repeating what others have said before." Unfortunately, I just skimmed a lot of the posts.

Mr. Sniper Piper might need it repeated more than once to get it through his thick skull, though. :-)

quote:Originally posted by Sniper Piper:

Once again, Sniper Piper versus the Brainwashed Masses.....



quote: I reside in America, its customary and traditional that a person "Proves Guilt" not the other way around..... Ill give the article the "Benefit of the doubt!"

This is about information and research, it's not a criminal trial. Sounds like you're the one easily brainwashed if you think it's appropriate to give the article "the benefit of the doubt". You just admitted that you choose to believe something just because it's "an article" which conveniently aligns with what you want to believe.

I'll repeat: that is not an intelligent way to approach information. But it is a good way to retain your right to remain ignorant.

quote:Originally posted by deadlycindy:

This is about information and research, it's not a criminal trial. Sounds like you're the one easily brainwashed if you think it's appropriate to give the article "the benefit of the doubt". You just admitted that you choose to believe something just because it's "an article" which conveniently aligns with what you want to believe.

I'll repeat: that is not an intelligent way to approach information. But it is a good way to retain your right to remain ignorant.

I noticed that you didnt quote point #1......?????

Thats some "Selective" reading!

Ill post both my points for everybody reading.....

quote:1. Nothing was Confirmed, a "Claim/Accusation" was made, but not proven in anyway shape or form.

2. I reside in America, its customary and traditional that a person "Proves Guilt" not the other way around..... Ill give the article the "Benefit of the doubt!"

Also, I stumbled upon a site that backs up the Fag Facts (http://www.spies.com/~gus/ran/0012/antiporn/fagfacts.html)



quote:Of fags questioned in one study, 43% admitted to 500 or more partners in a lifetime, 28% admitted to 1000 or more in a lifetime, and of these people, 79% said that half of those partners were total strangers, and 70% of those sexual contacts were one night stands (or, as one fag admits in the film "The Castro," one minute stands) (3). Also, it is a favorite past-time of many fags to go to "cruisy areas" and have anonymous sex.

holy grail for many gay men who go online" (In Los Angeles magazine); (http://www.cruisingforsex.com/)

People don't choose to be gay. Sexuality is influenced by genetics and environment, and since it is completely out of the control of the person in question, it's just as wrong to discriminate against someone because of their sexuality as it is to discriminate against race or gender.

Sniper proudly claims that his God is a bigoted racist and sexist though...so I don't think your argument will convince him that he is wrong (even though he is blatantly retarded).

quote:Originally posted by Sniper Piper:

Of fags questioned in one study, 43% admitted to 500 or more partners in a lifetime, 28% admitted to 1000 or more in a lifetime, and of these people, 79% said that half of those partners were total strangers, and 70% of those sexual contacts were one night stands (or, as one fag admits in the film "The Castro," one minute stands) (3). Also, it is a favorite past-time of many fags to go to "cruisy areas" and have anonymous sex.

That doesn't mean a goddamn thing. Here's a lesson on research and assessing information. We'll just consider the part I bolded for now.

-What "study" is this, conducted by whom, and using what methods for gathering the statistics?

-Who exactly are "the fags questioned"? The statistics would be dramatically different if the "study" group was selected from a pick-up bar in a "cruisy area" or from those working in an office building on Montgomery Street, or even from random paraders at the annual Gay Pride parade in San Francisco.

Those misleading "statistics" are about as reliably representative of the gay population as ravers are representative of the teen population. If you questioned 50 teens just leaving a rave, a high percentage would admit to having used drugs in the past week, another high percentage would admit to having used drugs that night, and out of all of them a high percentage would admit to having used more than one drug that night. But even though such a "study" might be factual, it fails to represent teens as a whole.

quote:Originally posted by Sniper Piper:

1. Mexico in general is a very sexually promiscuous country.

2. The locals will even tell you that Queers are rare.

So let's say I walk up to a straight man and say, "Hey man, how many fags are around you right now?" He'd probably say very few, unless there was someone holding their partners hand. Then he'd have a definate winner. To ask a straight person about the gay population is to be asking about the out and obvious gay population. Maybe it's different here in Canada, but as far as I know we have a bit of a secret society going on. Not everyone is ok with the rest of the world knowing that they're gay. You seem to be nothing more than a sack of vast generalizations, misinformed assumptions, and stubbornness. Try to keep in mind sniper that 82% of statistics are made up on the spot.

Are all Queers born that way?

Are not some Queers "Recruited", some individuals experimented with Homosexuality, and are now Queer, could you say these individuals were born that way?

Since I cant recall much of my childhood past, especially when I developed a liking for the Opposite sex, could it be said that I was "Born that Way?"

quote:Originally posted by Sniper Piper:

Are all Q (http://www.channel4.com/life/microsites/G/gayometer/gayometer.html)ueers born that way?

Obviously not all homosexuals are born "that way", because the laws of probability say that's nearly impossible.

quote:Originally posted by Sniper Piper:

Are not some Q (http://www.channel4.com/life/microsites/G/gayometer/gayometer.html)ueers "Recruited", some individuals experimented with H (http://www.channel4.com/life/microsites/G/gayometer/gayometer.html)omosexuality, and are now Q (http://www.channel4.com/life/microsites/G/gayometer/gayometer.html)ueer, could you say these individuals were born that way?

As I mentioned above, not all homosexuals are "born that way". The same, though, goes for heterosexuals. A person might be born homosexual, but later, through some action or event, change sexuality spontaneously. If I said it has never happened I'd be a bigger fool than you, SP.

Oh, and your capitalization scheme is quite interesting, I'm starting to wonder about you. I've added a little something to help you with your internal battle...

quote:Originally posted by Sniper Piper:

Since I cant recall much of my childhood past, especially when I developed a liking for the Opposite sex, could it be said that I was "Born that Way?"

A lot of things could "be said" because of that information. Just because, though, you can't remember your childhood doesn't mean anything more then you can't remember your childhood. Go ask your mother, she can clue you in.

I have an interesting new link that nobody has brought into the discussion yet.

http://www.spies.com/~gus/ran/0012/antiporn/fagfacts.html

Why won't this die? (http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v289/Green_Lantern/Green%20Lantern/GLcry.jpg)

(and no, this isn't a bump because this thread is already at the top of page1)

Why does that link have my name in it! [/mockCaring]

Come on people... Game over man, GAME OVER!

quote:Originally posted by Davanman:

So let's say I walk up to a straight man and say, "Hey man, how many fags are around you right now?" He'd probably say very few, unless there was someone holding their partners hand. Then he'd have a definate winner. To ask a straight person about the gay population is to be asking about the out and obvious gay population.

Well, Davanman, maybe you ought to take a trip down to Mexico and try to convince the straight locals THAT THEYRE TOTALLY SURROUNDED BY BUTT PIRATES!!!!!

quote:Not all the Clowns are in the Circus....theyre in Canada!

quote:Originally posted by Sniper Piper:

Well, Davanman, maybe you ought to take a trip down to Mexico and try to convince the straight locals THAT THEYRE TOTALLY SURROUNDED BY BUTT PIRATES!!!!!

There you go with those obsene assumptions again. All I'm saying is that unless the entire population is out, there's no way that anyone can accurately gauge just how many there are around. There's no clean cut way to differentiate a homo from a hetero, it's that simple. I didn't suggest that Mexicans are homos.

A Society that encourages a person to "Experiment" in Homosexuality, is the reason we have some many Fags today.

Ever hear "Homosexuality is addictive"

Reasons to think sodomy a vile addiction. (http://members.aol.com/step314/ideas/nosodom.htm)

quote:I'd say that the average person is rather disgusted by sodomy, by which I mean behavior that introduces semen into the digestive system (viz. oral sodomy and rectal sodomy). Male homosexuals want to make their behavior seem primarily a gender-preference issue as opposed to a question of whether people should have the right to sodomize. Sodomy is not a pretty picture to most people. Isn't the simplest explanation for why so many people are disgusted by sodomy that there is an evolutionary advantage in viewing the behavior as disgusting, because sodomy is evil?

Even ignoring the bizarre pseudoscience "I am a trained phrenologist" tone the author takes, his basic premises are wrong. Look at the number of posts here on blowjobs. Or consider larger populations, as in http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/journals/3229800.html .

"Isn't the simplest explanation for why so many people are disgusted by puppies that there is an evolutionary advantage in viewing the animals as disgusting, because puppies are evil?" etc.

[This message has been edited by Gray (edited 07-20-2004).]

Hey guys, I think today is the day I'm going to chose my sexual orientation.

Hmm... It's a pretty tough choice... On the one hand I could go with hetero and choose the natural choice that God intended.

Or maybe I should choose to be gay and defy nature in an evil master-plan of societal decay ultimately prevailing in the complete and total destruction of our civilization. Hmm...

Decisions decisions.

-Nocuous

^ Perhaps you're asking the wrong questions...

go omnisexuall bushy, i heard it's a trend

Bump.

Seems strange, but how many times was that guy who didnt play sports or to turn the guy in scouts for having a knife turn out to be a fag. I believe its either born or lack of a strong guide.

quote:Originally posted by Sniper Piper:

Normally I agree with the argument that statistics can prove Anything so long as you can show that the sources have a "Bias."

Are the sources "Biased?"



The following were written by the author of fag facts:

"I want to ban pornography with a 10-year prison term for viewing or participating in pornography, as well as oral and anal sex with a 1-5 year prison term for oral sex and a 1-10 year term for anal sex. I also want to ban the manufacture and sale of contraceptives (birth control) with a prison term of up to 1 year in jail and/or a fine of up to $5,000 for violating this ban. None of these laws will be retroactive."

I'm not sure anyone in this site will agree with this.

"I also support a ban on interracial marriage. While I am not racist, I believe that God intends people to marry within their own race. Any and all interracial marriages currently licensed should immediately be annulled, with any children born to said couple, allowed only to marry with other children of interracial couples. All races ought to have equal opportunity in employment, pay, etc. Therefore, I believe that Affirmative Action is racist against white people and ought to be abolished."

I won't even comment on this one, this guy is a fundamentalist. While being a christian myself, I reckon you don't have to be an extremist. And I don't remember where in the bible does it mention interracial marriage. So basically he assumes his "version" of God is the right one.

"I am in favor of the death penalty for murder (including performing an abortion), attempted murder, rape, incest, pedophilia/child molestation, bestiality, necrophilia, transvestites, treason, spying against the state, espionage, drug dealing, vampirism, adultery, and armed robbery."

What kind of christian supports the death penalty? I say, this man SHOULD be in a mental hospital.

"I am also 100% against homosexuality and I believe homosexuals (including lesbians and bisexuals) as well as people with fetishes, ought to be put in mental hospitals. This must be done NOW, before they degenerate society and our children's morals even further. I also believe ANY children in the custody of homosexuals ought to be taken away IMMEDIATELY, in order to prevent further emotional and sexual abuse. DO NOT let your children near one of these vile monsters! Read the Fag Facts page to get more insight into the sexual habits of homosexuals and others of their ilk."

I myself am not particularly fond of homossexuals. The world would be better off without them(and don't give me any over-population bullshit). Still, should you wish to be one, it's your damn choice, and in fact, leaves me more women to choose from. But hell, you don't see any zoophiles marching in some crazy parades saying they are normal. Homossexuality isn't normal, but I wouldn't psycho over it either.

quote:Originally posted by Sniper Piper:

Fags got homosexuality removed from the list of mental illnesses in the early 70s by storming the annual American Psychiatric Association (APA) conference on successive years. "Guerrilla theater tactics and more straight-forward shouting matches characterized their presence" (2). Since homosexuality has been removed from the APA list of mental illnesses, so has pedophilia (except when the adult feels "subjective distress") (27). (http://www.spies.com/~gus/ran/0012/antiporn/fagfacts.html)

Wow, I think that was the most retarded thing I have ever read. I'm not gay but I think that w/e someone wants to do with there life is there fucking buisiness. I can't believe u actually posted that link it certainly shows u have a lot of free time on your hands. Why do u care so much about all these homosexual facts? did u ever look at yourself and think about what makes u hate gay people so much.

huh...........................

maybe your Gay because a staraight person usually doesn't care that much 75% of homophobes are gay and feel that they have to express there hatred profoundley and consistantly to show that there is no sign that could indicate there homosexuality.

so if your gay come out of closet and if your not and you just think its cool to hate gay people and use the term fag excessively keep your opinions to your self.

quote:Originally posted by AllShallPerish:

If people are "born" gay like many of you say, and shit happens to there brain before there born. Then why do they CHOOSE to walk and talk like that...Im definatly sure they werent walking like that when they were 10..and havent "discovered" themselves yet. If you have a reasonable answer then I will be happy to admit I am wrong (unlike some of the immature kids on this forum) You might say that they have more feminine qualities or whatever but no kid is like that young...

If they were girls, they'd be the ones wearing the shirts that show so much of their middrift that you can see the undercurve of their tits. There are people who crave attention. Those gay guys you described are only some gay guys. The ones who need somebody to notice them for whatever reason. Maybe they're trying to let other people know their gay, but all it does is make me feel repulsed rather than make me want to fuck them. I'm a guy, and I'm bi by the way.

Think of two hot chicks. Both are equally slutty. Hot chick one dresses in baggy jeans and fuzzy sweaters. Hot chick two wears shirts that aren't any bigger than her bra and shorts that let you see her ass cheeks. If you came into contact with both of them, you'd assume hot chick one was rather prudish and hot chick two was a huge slut. By guessing about somebody from what they show you on the outside, you're only going to be right part of the time. Maybe, hot chick two dresses conservativly because she doesn't want anybody to realize's she's so easy. And hot chick two likes clothes that cover more, but she doesn't know how else to let people know she's a slut.

Same thing with gay people. I'm sure that the 'whoo-hoo'-ness is some gay guy's way of coming out of the closet to everybody he meets. Somewhere there's a gay guy who loves showtunes and really fruity alcoholic drinks who plays football and talks about tits non-stop.

quote:Originally posted by AllShallPerish:

ah I wouldent want to be mistaken for gay...so they wouldent want to be mistaken for straight..But what about the Bisexuals?

I'm bi, and I think I act like straight people do (am not exactly sure. Though I do baby-talk to my doggie. But he's such a cutie. He's my baby). Girls seem to like me way more than my looks and personality account for, so they could be faghags.

quote:Originally posted by Sniper Piper:

Fags commit more than 33% of all reported child molestations in the United States, which, assuming fags make up 2% of the population, means that 1 in 20 fags is a child molester, while 1 in 490 heterosexuals is a child molester (19).



According to two psychology classes (but I repeated one twice) in two different colleges with three differnt teachers) after you take into account that there are way more straight people than gay, there's no difference between rates of statutory rape with kids who are older than puberty. The typicl prepubecent child molester is usually a "straight" man who is married or has a girlfriend. The genders of the kids he molests tend to not matter to him. I put straight in quotation marks because he says he's straight, he has straight relationships, people think he's straight, and, outside of sex with little kids of either gender, some of which may be male, he is straight. The only reason most of them are straight is that most people are straight. I don't know if gay child molesters have a gender preference. It makes sense that neither of them would since little kids bodies are pretty much the same, and actual penetration is rare.

quote:Originally posted by AllShallPerish:

If people are "born" gay like many of you say, and shit happens to there brain before there born. Then why do they CHOOSE to walk and talk like that...

Dude, the that's the old gay sterotype. The new sterotype is an extremely buff, overly masculine, gym bunny. A lot of people see super macho-ness as being a sign of homosexuality. Back in the day they'd try so hard to be manly to hide their gayness that they were like super mach men.

Nature vs. Nuture? We don't have any reliable information on this regarding homosexuality. However, we do have some information regarding on variations in humans that may can be related to the homosexual issue.

THE AMISH! Looking though books for stats... Found it. Ok, there's a mental disorder that I'm not going to name. Trying to find out what it's causes are, some researchers got the Amish to let them study them. It says...

"In many ways the Amish community provides a living laboratory for all genetic research. They are a well-defined, closed population, bumbering some twelve thousand people, with little migration into or out of the community. They are able to trace their ancestry back to thirty original progenitors, and keep extensive geneologic recors. Very important, the couples marry young in life and the community encourages a very high birth rate, thereby allowing genetic researchers to study large and multigenerational families. [Shit about the research group and their relationship with the amish here. Speaking of leaving out info and using brackets, amd I supposed to use an elipse here?] [shit about finding at risk people from their background here] The clinical records and follow-up studies - as well as the genetic material mined from this unique population - has resulted in a national treasure trove that will continue to provide a wealth of information about ... disorder for years to come."

Fuck if I'm going to type up 3 more pages of this, so paraphrasing, Amish are much much much less likely to have this mental disorder because their lifestyle is less likely to produce it. They still have it though.

Ancient Greece (it was either Greece or Rome. It's been a while since 10th grade Latin) had tons of homos because homosexaulity wasn't seen as anything bad. I'm sure the Christian Settlers didn't have any openly gay citizens, because it just wasn't accepted by their society. Homosexuality still existed though, because, even if the society despises it, some people are so gay, for lack of a better way to put it, that conditioning didn't matter. Even though there were way more gays in anicent Greece, I'm sure that some straight people were so straight that they still thought it was gross.

Let me put it this way, two straight guys who had the same upbringing go to prision for life. One turns gay on the inside. The other is celebate for life and only gets off though masturbation. What's the difference? The difference is on the inside. On the outside, both were pretty much straight because there was no reason for them not to be. The one who turned gay liked woman, and never even though about other men. Even if he had, it was socially acceptable and there was no reason to do anything about it. The other guy was straight, not only because he was attracted to women, but because he was repulsed by men. If they had the same upbrining, there's got to be something genetic about it, but they were both straight while free, so there's go to be something enviromental as well.

quote:Originally posted by The_Rabbi:

It is most certainly a mental disorder, albeit one that's very difficult to cure.

That doesn't mean it's THEIR fault that they have it, though.

That philosophy is flawless?

Somebody was saying, 'It's your opionion versus the professionals', and I can't find that now to quote it. My respose: Most of the "professionals" on that list were just stating their opinion. I didn't see the abreviation Dr. before most of their names, or M.D. after either.

quote:Originally posted by [G-Prime]:

Homosexuality is by choice, and wrong.

Being non-Christian is by choice, and wrong. Just as you may 'be born' with an inate attraction to the same sex and should make an attempt to be attracted to the opposite, you should make an attempt to be Christian if you had the misfortune of 'being born' Jewish or Islamic, or Buddhist. Studdies show us that Jews are all greedy money lenders, Muslims are terrorists in waiting, and Buddhists are a bunch of dirty hippies. These facts have been proven. Let me assure of of my credibility by repeating the exact same thing. These facts have been proven.

What the fuck differnce does it matter if it's nature or nuture? I say that as long as it doesn' involve cohersion or violence, and is consensual, what's right or wrong is up to the individual. If you wanna fuck one person your whole life only in the missionary position, and only to create, that's up to you. If you wanna get gangbanged by 10 guys while your husband tapes it, that's up to you, your husband, and the 10 guys.

People need to fuck off and leave people alone.

quote:Originally posted by Gray:

[QUOTE]

"Isn't the simplest explanation for why so many people are disgusted by puppies that there is an evolutionary advantage in viewing the animals as disgusting, because puppies are evil?" etc.

[This message has been edited by Gray (edited 07-20-2004).]

I hope you're talking about gross, just born, wet, birth-fluid covered puppies. because once puppies are dry they're adorable fuzzballs. Who's disgusted by puppies?

quote:Originally posted by SKS_7.62:

Men and women were designed so that they could be together and produce children. If everyone was gay then the human species would cease to exist. How then could homosexuality be considered "normal" when it goes against the way nature intended? Homosexulaity is not a new idea. It has existed since ancient times. EVERY society that has become openly gay has failed. This is because it goes against natures plan. The Romans beacame openly gay so did the Greeks. Both these cultures failed. I look at our own country and see the similarities. 15 years ago homosexuality was something people didnt talk about. Gays did their own thing. Now, liberals who want "tolerance" and all that bullshit, are changing that. Look at shows like "Queer Eye" and "Will and Grace". MTV also does a lot on gay tolerance and shit. Society is trying to brainwash our culture into accepting their lifestyle as normal. What is going to happen? Kids wont know how a real family acts because they will have two gays parents. I dont see how this cant mess up a young kid. A child needs a mother and a father. A mom has always been the caring nurturing one. The father has always been there to protect and provide for his family. There is a balance and harmony to this. The gay culture is trying to f*** all of this up. They want to be able to adopt kids and raise them in their queer lifestyle. I think this is wrong. We shouldn't try to defy nature. We should just stick with normal families with a mother and a fater.

this statement goes contrary to the FACT that homosexuality is present in almost all animal species... present in nature



and sniperdumbass... you're an uneducated bigot

I might as well contribute before this gets locked...

Okay then Sniper. We all know you're a retarded bible freak, so here's a question for you. If god doesn't like gay people, then why does he condemn them for something they can't help. Think about it. Either god doesn't exist or he's an evil bastard. You might not believe that being gay is a choice, but most (if not all) homosexuals KNOW it's not a choice. You can't prove otherwise without being gay yourself.

Another point I'd like to make is what if God has purposely made people homosexual to keep the planet from overpopulating? What if it's evolution? Someone mentioned that homosexuals have larger brains. I can't think why we're evolving to be this way but maybe it's just nature's way of regulating population. It makes sense if you think about it, kind of.

[This message has been edited by Pyronos (edited 09-15-2004).]