I was posting something in that "dry-fucking" thread, and basically ended up thinking about how, while I of course miss sex, I REALLY miss intimacy more than anything. You know: The woman I love and hugging and kissing her, or getting either, or when we're sitting together, having her arms wrap around me gently and her head on my shoulder, you name it.

I've had 17 sex partners in my 26 years on this mortal coil, and while I respected and cared about each, and loved ALL of them on some level (it doesn't mean "in love"), even if we weren't in a relationship, I've only had one who I've ever really been in love with, and who was in love with me, and she was the only woman I've ever shared "true" intimacy with. I've got to say it: With this woman specifically, the sex was amazing, multifaceted, passionate (whether in romance or in anger, frustration or roughness), perfect, and frequent! Of course I miss it, but I think what I miss most is when she'd go to sleep with her head on my chest, because she said listening to my heartbeat always comforted her and put her to sleep. I miss the way she'd sit on the floor in front of me and lean back against my chest; I was much bigger and longer of torso than she was, so she fit perfectly. I would always slide my arms out in front of her and up her shirt, but not to get sexual: I'd just rest them on her stomach, and we'd sit there and talk, or watch a movie, warm up in front of the fireplace, what have you. I had a fondness for her stomach, actually, as odd as that sounds, heheh; it was just soft-skinned, warm; she had a great body, wasn't fat or anything, but she was wonderfully full-figured for being such a small gal, so it was soft, and yet flat; perfect in all the ways that mattered to me at the time. I miss laying with her, kind of in a T shape, laying my head right in the center. She'd do the same with me, of course, and it was just as nice. If I were laying in her lap, or something, I'd always lift her shirt and kiss her stomach, but if I didn't do it slowly, she'd get ticklish; yes, you KNOW I took advantage of that sometimes. I'd often use my hair to tickle her there and elsewhere; sexually as well, but I'm focusing on intimacy here. She'd do the same with hers. Speaking of her hair, I miss burying my fingers in it when I kissed her, and running them through it, slowly and softly, whenever I could (heheh).

What's my point? There isn't one, really; this is just fond reminiscing for real intimacy, and the tangible side of it that I miss. So shut up and save your bullshit, if you were planning on flaming me for "pointless" threads. Anyway:

Do you enjoy intimacy over sex? Have you found it before? Did you lose it? Do you miss it? Have you never shared it, but want to? If you've shared it in the past, what sorts of tangible expression of it (read: my post) do you miss most? Contribute, if you please. Of course, I'm going to rebuke you if you act like a cynical cocksucker, but I can't stop you, and lord knows I do the same thing. Anyway, I'm done.

Intimacy, you're dead to me right now, but maybe I'll find you again someday.

-Infrared



[This message has been edited by Infrared (edited 06-22-2004).]

You remind of the contests on that damned millionaire show. Get a speech that by the time their done theyre half blue and ready to pass out. Then they get to the point.

But, yes intimacy over sex any day. Ive had enough sex in my life, that sex alone isnt good enough, unless their is some sort of intimacy invloved. Had it with...probablly 5 girls in the 5 year long search for my future wife. And when i can manage to get my ass back to the last one i find, where the intimacy was more than anything ive ever expeirenced, I will only truly be happy. But until that happens, I try to have a fun time.

quote:Originally posted by Infrared:

...it was just soft-skinned...

You should have made a woman-suit out of her. Heh, j/k.

But really, anyone can get themselves off. The stuff that goes beyond an orgasm is what reall counts.

Your words on intamacy echo my feelings perfectly. i don't really need sex, I need someone to share that sore of intamacy, I've had sex but never intimacy like that. That is what i really want. Thank you for your words Infra..

I love your threads for 2 reasons.

1) They're well-written and they're deep, meaningful.

2) Your disclaimers prevent dumbass replies. I know I never have to check a Infra thread for hijacking.

Anyways..

Mm, cuddling. Haven't done it since my ex over a year ago. I don't like to think about it too much anymore because it hurts but for other's entertainment..

We were physically fit for each other. When we held hands, they perfectly fit together. No matter the position we were in, we could always find a comfortable way to lay, sit, stand together.

I remember sitting in the back of his Jeep together watching the waves. When we were driving I would lean over and put my arm around his and rest my head on his shoulder. He had a stick shift so I would switch gears for him.

We used to lay there for hours, sometimes we'd be in bed the entire day just laying with each other and watching TV. The best part was his hands. I could play with them forever. His smell, his hair, his lips.

I liked when he was sitting on the bed playing guitar. I would come from behind him and wrap my arms around him and kiss his neck He would start playing some love song (usually Led Zep or a blues song). The greatest was he'd just start playing, without saying a word. It was like communicating on a different level.

If we were sitting on the couch cuddling, I would write words on his hands. I don't know if he ever noticed. I used to draw hearts a lot. But I write invisible words all the time (it's a habit).

When we went to the mall sometimes we would just stop and stand there and hug each other. Saying goodbye could last a good hour. It was hard for us to leave each other, even if it was only for a few minutes.

Every single picture we have of us, our arms are around one another, it looks like we can't get closer.

That was one of the greatest things of our relationship. The expressing of emotion without words and facial expressions. Of course, we talked and expressed our love in words but the actions made it that more special, whether it be cuddling, playing music, doing special things (seperating the charms and cereal in Lucky Charms), being courteous (him keeping the toilet seat down, or me putting the driver seat back to where he likes it).

To me, intimacy is great as a tool for expressing how you feel. Skin to skin contact is important to babies. I guess it's something we're born with.

Come to think if it, the first thing to go when the relationship turned sour was the cuddling.

I love sex. A lot. But I miss the intimacy with the one guy I really loved more than sex with him.

I used to lie with my head on his chest just to listen to his heartbeat. It made me feel so close to him. The best thing about him was lying in his arm, with my head resting on his shoulders. It was like the perfect place to be. I have never felt so safe.

You know, I thought I'd gotten over that whole period a while ago, but thinking about it, I miss it so much. There's probably nothing I wouldn't do to get things back.

quote:Originally posted by whiteass:

You remind of the contests on that damned millionaire show. Get a speech that by the time their done theyre half blue and ready to pass out. Then they get to the point.



You remind me of the dumbassed, shallow, obtuse progeny of the MTV (de)generation. But thank you for your contribution.

quote:Originally posted by aloneandbroken:

I love sex. A lot. But I miss the intimacy with the one guy I really loved more than sex with him.

I used to lie with my head on his chest just to listen to his heartbeat. It made me feel so close to him. The best thing about him was lying in his arm, with my head resting on his shoulders. It was like the perfect place to be. I have never felt so safe.

You know, I thought I'd gotten over that whole period a while ago, but thinking about it, I miss it so much. There's probably nothing I wouldn't do to get things back.



Heh, that thing about her listening to my heartbeat always seemed so unique to her and I; I knew there were other couples who would share it, of course, but it just seemed like something her and I alone shared. Hard to explain what I mean by that; I guess it's just the specific way she'd react, how we fit together, how she felt, how she breathed, how my heart specifically sounded, etc...I don't know. I'm glad to see that someone else has experienced it, though.

Listening to my heartbeat is depressing, for me, because it inexorably leads me to think of her. It's also terrifying, because it's usually pounding hard and fast, but you learn to tune it out, though. But this is why I despise sleep and why I hate to lay down and close my eyes. You might say I'm afraid of the dark. Not because I can't see, but because of the silence and the thoughts that it brings.

Mojo, your post was very well-written too, and needless to say, from the heart. What you said about the cuddling being the first thing to change is dead-on..I remember towards the end, we'd do it less and less, and when we did, she'd always kind of tense up a bit, which she never did before. It bothered me, but I'd always rationalize it somehow. In retrospect, I should've never even fallen in love with her. But I still miss the good times and the sex, but it's that old, familiar intimacy that brings on the pain, you know? Heh, maybe you, myself and aloneandbroken should meet and eulogize each other with our tales, then go drinking or something. Or you could give me some pointers when it comes to surfing . I've tried, but I didn't get enough time to really practice.

Oh, and you mentioned hands; I do enjoy a nice set of hands as well. Hers were almost exactly like mine, except scaled back by an inch in every way (finger length, width of palm, etc), and hers were soft; mine are rough on the pads and I have a few scars.

Anyway, thanks to you three ladies for your contributions. That includes you, saltine.

-Infrared

(Don't worry, LP and Hagbard, I didn't forget you either. Thanks =D )

[This message has been edited by Infrared (edited 06-22-2004).]

This is the area in which Chris and I make so many people sick. We're cuddlers by nature. We kiss whenever we pass by each other. We blow kisses at each other constantly. We never go more than an hour without saying "I love you," except when we're not together (obviously).

We're the type to hug from behind. If he's in the bathroom shaving, I'll walk up behind him, slide my arms around him, and watch him shave with my face pressed against his side. Or if I'm in the kitchen doing dishes, he'll walk up, slide his arms around me, and just hold me while he talks to me. At my mom's house this past Sunday, he put his arm around me, just above my breasts, and his hand on my hip, and just held me during my step-father's long-winded blessing.

We smack each other on the ass. We cuddle before we sleep (not while we sleep; neither of us can stand that unless we're both sick). We take showers together and soap up against each other. Not usually in a sexual way, just because it's amusing.

We cuddle on the couch, me curled up at one end, him stretched out with his head on my hip. Or we spoon, and watch tv. We play with our daughter in the floor, and I'll sit with my legs crossed, and he'll stretch out and put his head in my lap.

When we pass each other in the hall, I'll run my hand down his arm, or he'll run his hand down my back. When we hug, and I press my head to his chest, and he runs his hands from my butt to my shoulder and back again.

I guess what I'm saying is we always find a way to be in physical contact with each other. Even if it's just holding hands while driving down the road or walking around in a store. It's that kind of intimacy, the fact that we can touch each other so comfortably, or that we can potty with the door open, or walk around naked and not even think a thing about it, that makes it all worth it to me. There's something to be said for mystery, I suppose. But I think there's something to be said for comfort and familiarity as well.

There's nothing so comforting as having gas and knowing you can let it fly and then joke about it with your partner, instead of having to blame it on the dog!

[This message has been edited by Lilly (edited 06-22-2004).]

Intimacy on the level you are speaking of sounds like a great thing, but i think it is also something that comes with maturity and age, may i ask if all the previous posters are older (over 20 ect) becuase it sounds that way, its nice to hear about it, and it sounds very unique but it holds no intrest to me at the moment being an 18 year old pysically fit male i think its safe to say the majority other people aged from about 15 - 19 regardless of sex feel the same way, maybe i just lack the abilities to be intimate the way your refering to or maybe i just havent found that special girl ? Ive had previous girlfreinds and we have goten intimate cuddling, talking for hours but it lacks something, it never felt like "love" i spose ..if that makes sense.



Right now i am just really comfortable with having casual sex and the whole "live to party" lifestyle, but at least i have something to look forward to when i do find the right girl,

on a side note all the previous posts were beautifully written,

JoJo

[This message has been edited by JoJo (edited 06-22-2004).]

Infra come and give my man some lessons please!

Uh, I was 14 when I had my first relationship with real intimacy, and yes, I mean the kind of intimacy as has been so eloquently described above (to the extent that being 14 allows for). Sometimes I feel alone for my age, though. Everyone wants to go party and have sex... and for a while (a few months) while I was confused, I wanted that, too. I think I've since realized that it's the intimacy that I really want. That strange, beautiful, elusive, yet conquering intimacy I can't seem to let go of for a more "normal" teenage ignorance.

While I feel love is ageless, one's preparedness to handle it isn't. Not that I'd set a concrete age, or anything, though.

In general, and with no intent to slag on you for being 14, I'm of the opinion that you might just want to relax a little. You'll regret it if you rush into something with somebody right now, only to find that you two grow apart as you get older, as the lady I mentioned in my post and I did. I met her 9th grade, at age 15; she was only a year, roughly, younger. We were great friends; "best", if you will; That's where we should have stayed, in retrospect. We did, for about five years, until, to make a long and slowly-building story short, fell for each other. We made the BIG FUCKING MISTAKE of making the jump (off a cliff) to love/relationship. We got deeper and deeper, more couple-Y and less friendly, we started having sex when I was about 17, and I was indeed attracted to her and I cared for her, but it was meant to be one of those "friend" things. It was after this that we looked at each other a bit differently, but still managed, both of us dating/having sex with others, being friends like always, etc. It was from 15-19 that I was with the majority of the mentioned 17 sex partners. The rest, I'll get to. Anyway, fast forward a bit; she ended up in a two-year relationship with someone, who she told me she was in love with (I'd never heard that from her before). I was completely content and happy for her for awhile, but when she'd talk to me, her friend, about her problems with him, the good things, the bad, how she feels about things; this revealed a side to her heart that I hadn't seen before, and left me strangely longing for her. This built into very intense love which KILLED me to contain, because she was with him and didn't (I thought) love me or see me as anything but her friend Tommy.

Eventually, I began to feel slighted when she went with him instead of hanging out with me, and I got into an argument, our first one that wasn't trivial/friendly, with her over this. Long story short...It ended with me spilling my guts, pouring my heart out, to which she responded by telling me "I like you too...I just..I wish we had told each other earlier..Tommy, I'm in love with Seth and I'm happy with him, but..You have something he doesn't..You're my friend, he never was.."

I took this to be a shoot-down. I just looked at her, very saddened.

"..that's why I wish I could be with you sometimes..."

!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This was the beginning of all that fucking shit. We argued again once, over the same thing, and after she left my house, only to come back in, TWICE, I just looked at her like "...Yeah.", and she says "Oh, you idiot, you.."....

Long and stupid story short, it ended in:

"I love you...I love you so much, and I can't have you, and...!"

"Tommy...You have me...You've had me all along, I never told you either, but I was so close that day you confessed to me, I - "

I was, of course, elated. I shushed her, we kissed more.

Thus began a relationship that was very, very, very satisfying and wonderful up until about 6 months or so before it's end, when we both started growing apart the most, but little signs of it were there all along. And additionally, in hindsight, I don't even fucking know anymore what the "first" time we "definitely" told each other about our feelings for each other was anymore; where the "real" beginning of our relationship was. There were just so fucking many moments and slips of the tongue and physical things and just..egh.

My point? We fell in love with each other, and we stayed that way, but as we grew and changed, we grew less and less compatible. I still love the person she used to be. I hate the person she's become now. But strangely, I still know that person, too, and I know she hurts inside, but the person I became ceased to be capable of breaking through to her and calming the lonely, scared, longing, fragile, sad person she was at heart, and she could no longer open up to me, either.

We weren't friends any more. We let love destroy that.

Basically....Wait a bit, before you think about serious relationships and love, because I really don't want that shit to happen to anyone else. Don't let me stop you from casual dating, though.

I think her and I were the MOST intimate when we were just friends.

-Infrared



[This message has been edited by Infrared (edited 06-22-2004).]

damn you Infra!! i was in a good mood until i read your posts and now you have me in the blues remembering all the past intimacies with my ex and wishing that the guy i like a lot (i refuse to use the "L" word) would just suck it up and get together with me....

we have little intimacies like hugs and me leaning on him on the couch stuff like that but nothing like what i wish we could do...

I really miss the little things like just holding hands down the street or hugs while your washing up....i miss the feeling of being safe and coming home that i get wen i'm encircled by his arms....

i want that feeling with this new guy but unfortunately it hasn't happened yet and its leaving me wanting and waiting and hoping...

Meh, you could try me on for size? I'm still waiting for the right woman, myself =\

Don't get down. Just learn from my past fuckups and do basically opposite what I did.

Oh in no way was I condoning serious relationships at 14, I was just saying.

Love has a way of destroying friendships. That's something I regret most...

^Sorry, man. I hope it hurt you less than it did me. Try to learn all you can from it for the future, if you haven't already.

I miss cuddling. I love to cuddle, with no one in particular either. As far as relationships go it was nice, but, it was still only a teenage relationship and not anything special.

I have a strong need for physical contact. If I am talking to someone I feel more comfortable if they have their arm around me. I would much rather have someone to sleep in my bed every night, not even on a sexual level. Just for comfort. I like to be able to snuggle up with a good friend and watch a movie with nothing expected. Everything just feels better.

This may sound strange, but my first “intimate” relationship on this level was with another girl. It wasn’t at all sexual. We went everywhere together. We shared the same hobbies. We often slept in the same bed when she slept-over. We hugged and wrestled and cried on each other’s shoulder. We were as close as two sisters. And it wasn’t even physical intimacy most of the time. Maybe it was more mental intimacy. It was two minds that were nearly identical. Being able to finish each others sentences. Feeding off of each others ideas. Moving in synch. Being able to amuse each other with quirky little inside jokes. Happening to reach for the phone to call at the exact moment the other is calling you. It was just a wonderful feeling that someone was with me.

I'm having really bad cravings for a hug lately, especially one that doesn't come from a family member or a friend. Just a big man hug.

Or to lie in bed with someone I really care about, not in an overtly sexual way, just to have some kind of physical contact with someone





[This message has been edited by boobsy mcfirehazard (edited 06-22-2004).]

^I'd give you a hug and you pretend I have a penis.

Thanks very much, honey

God, I don't even particularly want/need someone with a penis attached at the min. Just someone to huggle

Eugh, now I'm just disgusting myself.

[This message has been edited by boobsy mcfirehazard (edited 06-22-2004).]

and sure there's always the horses...

I miss intimacy, my man doesn't seem to have time to just be together anymore, it either sex or sleep.

I've always longed to sleep with someone in an intimate more than sexual way. It's refreshing to see that other people share the same desires.

quote:Originally posted by Infrared:



You remind me of the dumbassed, shallow, obtuse progeny of the MTV (de)generation. But thank you for your contribution.

Damn, youve been pretty sensitive lately infra...anything you care to share with the rest of us? O shit, me gots to go check me peeps out on diz herrrrr MTV.

quote:Originally posted by boobsy mcfirehazard:

I'm having really bad cravings for a hug lately, especially one that doesn't come from a family member or a friend. Just a big man hug.

Or to lie in bed with someone I really care about, not in an overtly sexual way, just to have some kind of physical contact with someone



[This message has been edited by boobsy mcfirehazard (edited 06-22-2004).]

Ahhh. You ought to start a commune or something, where everything will be all warm & fuzzy... ... ...till it all ends in tears.

* Sniff * * Hug? *

I know what you mean man.

Sometimes, me and my girlfriend plan on having sex. This happened last night. Instead I decided I wanted to make up for being an asshole on Thursday night, (read that post "should i be mad?"). So she layed on me, and we just held eachother all night. I feel bad because I had to be at work at 930. Which sucks because I wanted to make her breakfast. Oh well, she's home now, I'm home now I can't see her until Thursday. Another fucking day of slave labor.

Infra, you're a good bloke. Either there's not many blokes out there that enjoy intamacy, or they just act too macho to admit that intamcy is a great and treasured thing. Too many people these days are like this (http://twerked.com/~splice/movies/bangbangbang.swf)

Must dash, gotta go play a boardgame with my lovely, wonderful girlfriend

-----Pointless Thread-------

Intimacy is better than sex especailly when you've had a hard/impossible (LOL!) day. When i got to bed my GF usually lies on top of me and we talk about our day. It's nice then later we might have sex. Sex is nice & fun. But intimacey is more what love is theroretically about.

Love is sacrifice. Intimacy is a higher thing. Those couple-y things her and I did could have been just the same, even if we'd remained but good friends. I know they would have felt as nice, and in retrospect, the missing "in love" factor would be much welcome to me now.

Infrared, your second long post about how u fell for her and how u grew apart, how u fell for each and how u grew together through friendship first is excatly like me and my best friend.

I ended up pouring my heart out to her, she said the same back but she also loved her boyfriend..they had a arguement and we kissed.

They sorted stuff out and i realised that i did want her but i didnt want to loose her, even if that ment staying friends with her...

I just hope me and her dont end up not talking like you and that girl...

JTMB, I know what you mean. I was like that before my boyfriend and I got together. I like to cuddle. Thank goodness he does too. Sometimes I pick intimacy over sex, I like both of course, but sometimes it just feels better to lay there and listen to each other breathe, and the steadiness of the other's heartbeat.

Sidenote-Infra, I'm honestly happy to see your transition to S&A is going smoothly. And, I still get to read all your threads. I'm as happy as can be!

You're happy, I'm happy.

As for S&A, you know I always liked it and posted here, but I realized I only gave real effort when I was posting here or in BLTC or maybe FGF sometimes (latent chef, here), and, well, decided to throw it all away in Spurious. That whole forum needs deletion, if you ask me.

As for the topic: There was a time when, if posed with the question "Intimacy or sex alone, one or the other, for the rest of your life?", I'd have been at an honest loss. Now, though, I'd go for intimacy with a woman, hands-down. And hey, at least I don't have to worry about being shot-down by my hand, or anything. But no more cunnilingus might bother me, but I'd still live.

Intimacy: The purified progeny of Love and Sex. Besides kids.

Thats just.....wow.........theres no real word i can use to describe it..................just wow.............

quote:Originally posted by MrMojoRisin:

I love your threads for 2 reasons.

1) They're well-written and they're deep, meaningful.

2) Your disclaimers prevent dumbass replies. I know I never have to check a Infra thread for hijacking.

Anyways..

Mm, cuddling. Haven't done it since my ex over a year ago. I don't like to think about it too much anymore because it hurts but for other's entertainment..

We were physically fit for each other. When we held hands, they perfectly fit together. No matter the position we were in, we could always find a comfortable way to lay, sit, stand together.

I remember sitting in the back of his Jeep together watching the waves. When we were driving I would lean over and put my arm around his and rest my head on his shoulder. He had a stick shift so I would switch gears for him.

We used to lay there for hours, sometimes we'd be in bed the entire day just laying with each other and watching TV. The best part was his hands. I could play with them forever. His smell, his hair, his lips.

I liked when he was sitting on the bed playing guitar. I would come from behind him and wrap my arms around him and kiss his neck He would start playing some love song (usually Led Zep or a blues song). The greatest was he'd just start playing, without saying a word. It was like communicating on a different level.

If we were sitting on the couch cuddling, I would write words on his hands. I don't know if he ever noticed. I used to draw hearts a lot. But I write invisible words all the time (it's a habit).

When we went to the mall sometimes we would just stop and stand there and hug each other. Saying goodbye could last a good hour. It was hard for us to leave each other, even if it was only for a few minutes.

Every single picture we have of us, our arms are around one another, it looks like we can't get closer.

That was one of the greatest things of our relationship. The expressing of emotion without words and facial expressions. Of course, we talked and expressed our love in words but the actions made it that more special, whether it be cuddling, playing music, doing special things (seperating the charms and cereal in Lucky Charms), being courteous (him keeping the toilet seat down, or me putting the driver seat back to where he likes it).

To me, intimacy is great as a tool for expressing how you feel. Skin to skin contact is important to babies. I guess it's something we're born with.

Come to think if it, the first thing to go when the relationship turned sour was the cuddling.

what went wrong?

Shittie

Bump...

I keep wanting to make a real post here, but it's not ready yet!