OK...I just typed up a big long thing, and totse ate it, said they didn't have anyone registered with my username... FUCK, oh well I'll type a summary of it...

A long time ago, I posted a question about a girl. A girl, who was unlike any other I've ever had the displeasure of meeting. She doesnt' like the phone, she doesn't date, she doesn't like people at her house, doesn't like going to other people's houses, she's shy around new people, multiple personalities, completely insane, ...smart, funny, nice, easy to talk to, and beautiful beyond compare. Yes, you guessed it, I love her.... but now almost two years after I started talking to her, just over a year since I first met her and fell completely for her... I'm still chasing after her. Other girls just dont' seem attractive to me, now that's not to say there arent' other girls who look hot, but there is no one else I'm attracted to as in relationship wise. This girl is everything I look for, except ... not quite as easy as I would like. I don't mean easy as in getting into bed easy, cause that would be a negative believe it or not... I mean less complicated in the department of everything related to getting a relationship started. There was a time...about two weeks ago, when I had her in the palm of my hand....all i would have had to do is take that final step, wrap my fingers around her and hold on for dear life....but I didn't, instead we ended up having a fight and things have been going in a downward spiral ever since. I love this girl...she's the only thing that holds me to who I am, to my morals, to my sanity, and as pathetic as it sounds, there are morning (or here lately afternoons) when the only reason I get out of bed, is because of her. I need some advice, advice from anyone would be appreciated, any advice from someone who has had experience with someone even slightly like her would be excellent. Some one who has had someone who hits it right on the nail and can give me a definitive "this is what you do..." that ISN"T telling me to forget about her, and that has a shot in hell at working with my person, would officially be considered a god, and I would bow at their feet. Please respond with any advice you can, thanks.

Well I got about 3 lines into it. Sounds like she is your first love. You'll get over it, eventually. Sucks I know, I have been where you are right now. I just now got over my first love, a few months ago like in April. Took 8 months. Now I am with a different girl whom I have dated before, and my first love fucked it up, and I'll be damned if she comes back and fucks this up again.

You won't get her, and you don't like anyone else cause you are obsessed with her? Maybe you should kill her. I like to run the person over, then come back and run them over again, just to make sure. When she's out of the way, other girls will start looking good again.

Wow. Bizzarely enough, a lot of the traits you described sound a lot like me (the first couple of traits, anyways). Unfortunately, I've got no advice because I've never been in a relationship.

First loves hit the hardest. Especially when they're unrequitted. I think just distance yourself from her and make an attempt at dating. It's how i coped with my unrequited love...and lean on your friends, that's what they're there for.

Maybe you are in love with the thrill of the chase ? Perhaps if you do succeed - you'll lose interest . Could be a case of lusting after something you can't have ?

Show her this thread.

I remember my first love, damn did that hurt heh. Her name was Taylor, she was a knockout man was she beautiful and one of the nicest girls you would ever meet, the only thing she cared about was making other people around her comfortable. We dated for about a year and then she moved away. I havn't talked to her in, shit, probably 5 or 6 years.

But keep pushing man, really, at worst you will get turned down, at least then you wont have a wasted opprotunity,

A knockout man who was beautiful?

She isn't my first love. I got over my first love in just a few weeks... I realized she was stupid she did some stuff, but thats a whole nother thread I'm not going into that. This girl is the first one I've ever felt THIS way about, but not my first love. And I dont' see how you could even think about gathering that from my first three lines...but oh well.

intern_7, I have considered that many times, but the times when I'm close and actually could succeed, I only want her more. When I'm down in the dumps like I was a couple hours ago, I actually think of other girls, but i always come back to her, cause she's always online when I get there, and she talks, and its like the world melts away, no matter how cold the day has made me... she brings me back to life. I also at times thought maybe it was about pride, not wanting to surrender, not wanting to fail. But if that were the case I would have picked an easier target. Right now there are three beautiful (in my opinion) smart, funny people, who like me, and that I could have inside of a week. But they aren't her... and I find myself drawn back to her, so it isn't pride. I also thought about maybe nightengale syndrome, because she has helped me through many problems, and given me hope when there was none. Then I realized, so have other people, and I also realized that she's been the cause of almost as many problems as she's fixed. So it isn't that. It goes far beyond human comprehension. Or at least mine.

Infrared....I always knew I liked you... thats the first good advice I've read ... if I could follow it that would be great. But I'd have to be hella drunk to do that. Heh, nm that, I just told her I loved her, she of course thought i was kidding, and continued on after saying "sure, prove it" ... if I can do that, I guess I can show her this thread.

EDIT: didnt' see MP's post. Yeah, thats my plan man. Its what her mom, her friends, her sis, two of her cousins, her... Steve (I dunno wtf to call him, he's steve...thats that. He used to live with them, now he just hangs around ALOT.). They all tell me to hang in there, and that she'll come around. And NO, I didn't ask for their help, or tell them... Her mom and cousins figured it out, her mom told her sis, and steve is psychic (literally).

[This message has been edited by firebird (edited 06-19-2004).]

There's not enough info provided to offer helpful advice.

If you're in the mood, address these questions.

-What are your respective ages?

-What's the status of your relationship? Are you friends? Bf/gf? Neighbors? School aquaintences? Business associates?

-Have you proclaimed your love to her, and how did she respond?

-If not, how do you imagine she'd respond?

-How much does she know of your interest in her?

-Is she on any medications?

-Does she (or you) have substance abuse issues?

-Does she receive professional mental health counseling?

-Why do you say "displeasure of meeting"?

-Does she have friends?

-Do you have friends?

-Have you ever had a girlfriend?

-What exactly happened 2 weeks ago, where you had her "in the palm of your hand"

-What was the fight about?

If this is too much work, go with Infrared's advice.

quote:Originally posted by deadlycindy:

There's not enough info provided to offer helpful advice.

If you're in the mood, address these questions.

-What are your respective ages?

-What's the status of your relationship? Are you friends? Bf/gf? Neighbors? School aquaintences? Business associates?

-Have you proclaimed your love to her, and how did she respond?

-If not, how do you imagine she'd respond?

-How much does she know of your interest in her?

-Is she on any medications?

-Does she (or you) have substance abuse issues?

-Does she receive professional mental health counseling?

-Why do you say "displeasure of meeting"?

-Does she have friends?

-Do you have friends?

-Have you ever had a girlfriend?

-What exactly happened 2 weeks ago, where you had her "in the palm of your hand"

-What was the fight about?

If this is too much work, go with Infrared's advice.



OMG DAMN TOTSE DID IT AGAIN......GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR....

*John travolta calm down* Ok, I'm cool now...I gotta type all that shit again...

1. We're both 16, she's about a month and a half older than me.

2. We're friends, if we were bf/gf I wouldnt' need this topic.

3. I've told her yes, but online, and she always says something like "sure" or "yeah prove it" and theres no way in hell to prove it online... so...blah.

4. N/a

5. She should...everyone who has ever been around us, or ever heard me even utter her name knows. I used to be kinda concealed about it, cause i didn't wanna scare her off. But one day I was talking to one of our friends and she said "OH, she knows, stop worrying about THAT" So after that i became more forward with it, complementing her, telling her she's perfect, etc.

6. Nope, no medications, she can't even take tylenol or asprin...don't know how she can life, I woulda killed myself by now, but whatever.

7. Nope, we're the cleanest people I know. I used to drink and I used to smoke, but after I started talking to her I cleaned everything up.

8. No, lol, but thats not to say that we don't both need it. ...WE DO go to a chiropractor though, and its generally good for our mental health...don't think that counts though.

9. Bummer a serious question and one that I cant' truncate too much...I say that because it fit with the general connotation at the beginning, and because...its the truth. If I hadn't ever talked to her, I would be a homocidal, alcoholic, (probably) junkie, with a slutty girlfriend, and a low end job to support my addictions. And I would be fine with it. Instead, she's given me a conscience, she's the voice inside my head, and I couldn't get her out if my life depended on it.

10. She has friends, but mostly school friends. Counting me, there are three she sees during summer, unless you count her sis's fiance and steve...and I don't count the former because she has no choice but to be around him, and the latter for the same plus...he's steve...

11. I have friends yes, many. I belong to no particular group, and yet I can blend with them all. I have at least one "close" friend in each little clic of high school society (preps, jocs, nerds, goths, punks, potheads, school band people, rock band people, rednecks, snobs,...etc...you get the picture) I'm a chameleon.

12. Yes, I've had two official girlfriends and a few...uh....eh...um...flirt buddies I guess you would call them... maybe practice dummies, I dunno. People i wasn't officially going out with, but that we held up all the pretenses of a relationship.

13. Eh....Long story short, cause I'm getting damn tired of typing, She gave me an opportunity, and I balked.... I could have had her right then and there, and kept her for eternity, but I missed it. Don't wanna go into it further.

14. ... But I have to, to answer this one. I hope I can make it shorter than I did last time...We were talking one night about marriage, and what we'd do if we were married, then the subject of kids came up, so we talked about that. We agreed on everything there too. It was like a sign from God Himself that it was meant to be. So, we were having fun with it, so we came up with names....oh they were beautiful names.. Two girls and two guys. Our first daughter was going to be Scarlett Noel (+my last name). *Sigh* oh well, anyways back on track... and then the next day, or maybe later that night, we were both highly caffienated (we're both coffee addicts) and we both have the same thought, lets play a practical joke on our friend and make him think I got her pregnant. So we do that, and he falls for it, hook, line, and sinker (dumbass she's too religious, and I'm too smart to not use a damn condom, but no one ever accused him of being smart) We carry it on for a week, and we're supposed to do a grand finale on that saturday. Where we would act lovey dovey, and where she said she would do whatever I told her to (this would be the time two weeks ago *wink wink*) but friday comes around, and she decides, she isn't going. Well she's easily irratible this particular day, and I'm ...fucking stupid, so I push it...she says something, I get aggrivated, she gets more aggrivted and that escalates to anger, I get angry that she's angry... we ended up telling the guy in a little buddy chat thing. We haven't been the same since...although, its picked up at least a couple times since then, I've never really been anywhere near where I was.

OK thats it, if someone responded since deadlycindy, I'll take care of you in the morning...my freakin hands hurt, I've typed this three times and told one of my friends who had more questions than a fucking Pakistani interrogator, thought he was gonna write a damn book or something.

Damn, you sound fucking obsessed. You're not in love, you're fucking obsessed when you haven't even been close enough to the girl to yet accurately determine whether or not it really is love or just obsessive infatuation. Also, the relationship would be a failure. You've changed a lot about you for her, and if you make it into the relationship you'll feel repressed and want to escape while the same time you'll have put so much in that you'll feel like you're dying if you try to leave...you'd be stuck in a personal hell with fear down one path and utter psychological suppression down the other.

What you need to do is fix yourself up for you, better yourself for the sake of being better, and find happiness while you are single. After you can maintain a healthy single life you should look for a woman; without doing that, the minute you're into the relationship you're going to bring out all the shit from your past again, and not just on yourself, but on her too.

I'm not trying to be a killjoy here, I'm speaking from my own experiences and from a lot of other's experiences. Don't hurt yourself; get away from the obsession, fix yourself up for you (right now, your only motivation for being a better guy is to GET her, not to maintain her; I know that isn't how it feels, but trust me, that's how it is), then if you still want to give her a shot, go for it.

[This message has been edited by Optimus Prime (edited 06-19-2004).]

REading through all of this, i am SO struck by how much your situation sounds like Breakfast at Tiffany's.

It's an old black and white movie, but it was from a cool era in the 60's and i think you should see it.

She turns him upside down, she's quirky and at first he didn't need or want her but after dizzyingly trying to follow her he falls in love with her.

And girls who are like tumbleweeds need solid rock guys to root them, and vice versa.

I think perhaps your fight on that occasion started because you wanted something from her (a relationship, going to the party) that she wasn't ready to give.

Expect nothing, demand nothing (you may not verbally ask or demand anything, but with men, your actions and eyes give it away).

If you get nothing back, which is unlikely, you will at least have a friend.

And she may need a little space before she turns to you (which i think she WILL heh heh: she didn't help you through all your problems because she thought you were an asshole!)

She more than likely helped him through his problems because he was a friend. Women usually do a much better job of keeping the opposite sex into a group of friends and a group of potential dates. It sounds like he is in the group of friends, otherwise something would have happened by now.

Your situation sounds a lot like one I was in, except I was the girl dealing with a guy like you.

The guy's name was Randy, and he helped me through a lot of stuff when we were friends. I also helped him. We would go drinking together, and we were in the military together. He dealt drugs in his civilian life, and not the little stuff, he was dealing coke, crack and heroin. Well, we started hanging out more and more, and I did start to like him, but I think it was more situational. Well, he talked me into dating him against my better judgement, I just felt so bad turning him down because he was so good to me. But, I did put my foot down about the dealing. He stopped, got a good job and everything. Well, I got called up to go overseas, and for awhile after I left, everything was fine. I would call him when I could and we would talk for as long as possible. The more we talked the more it felt like he was suffocating me. And I was thousands of miles away! He became obsessed, and had me on a pedalstal so high I couldn't parachute down, much less live up to it. It was too much. There is such a thing as being too nice.

So, I finally broke it off in a telephone call, saying being overseas was stressful enough, I didn't need a relationship too. He didn't take it well.

When I returned home last May, I got off the bus and low and behold, he was waiting. I don't know how he knew we were coming home, it wasn't really broadcasted. Anyway, he had told the press we were together, it was in the local newspaper and he would not leave me alone. It was terrible. I finally had to be mean for him to get it. I have now been free for about 4 months from his phone calls and emails. I had to change my numbers, close my email acct, and move to get away. All I'm saying is, the pretense sounds the same in your situation. Do not become a Randy. Give her space and take things how they come.

I know how u feel and i hav had this before and just when i thought i cud get this girl she started seeing someone else...almost killed me!

i thought about her almost every time i wasnt busy i would lie awake in bed an think of her.

i thought i was just really sad an obsessed but i guess not

about a month after she started seein this guy i started seein sum1 who i lik good enough bout not as much as this girl

wen the girl found out i was seein sum1 the 1st thing she sed to me was "y do i always want what i cant hav?" made me really confused

I am glad to say that i am over her now and i kno it wil happen to you too although now that isnt wot u wna hear rite now.

u needa take a risk and you will have so many chances but u will never be sure whether to take them

i say just take the chance and when you are alone with her just kiss her the worst she can do is tell you to get off and if you are good friends with her she will not be mad

this is what i wish i wud hav done in my situation

wot do you think you are gona do??

Wow, this sounds so similar to me. Ill say my story very breifly and then say what i think. I liked this girl, to make it easy, we will call her lacy. lacy and i became friends and immediatly we became very close, could tlak about n e thing, etc. Lacy became the first girl that i ever loved and she meant everything to me, yet i knew she didnt feel this way about me. Then i met another girl, we will call her sam. Sam and i beame friends and sam eventually helped me tell lacy how i felt about her, and lacy of course told me she didnt feel that way about me, but she respected my feelings. Then i found out lacy liked some guy i hated and i got very mad and our friendship started coming apart and it became summer time and we stopped talking and i was depressed b/c i had to get over her. During this time, sam and i became closer and when i got over lacy, i feel for sam. Sam liked me as well and so we were both happy w/ that. Then there were some minor problems and we were uanble to talk for about a month and when sam came back, she was different. She didnt like talking about herself or n e thing like that n e more. Not too long ago, sam and i had a fight and we ended everything. I forgave her, when i shouldnt have and tryed to start things over, but i failed miserabbly at it. Sam and i dont talk n e more, and when we do we only fight. Lacy had started coming back into my life half way thru my relationship w/ sam and we had started talkin again and we were cool again. Lacy helped me w/ getting over sam when our relationship ended while i helped lacy w/ a relationship problem. I realized while helping lacy that i still cared about her more then anyone i know. I realized i didnt want to help her get back w/ this guy but i loved her so much that i wanted to be able to make her happy, so i was helping. Well now she has told me that the relationship she had is over and isnt coming back, which im glad about, but i cant tell her how i feel about her. I know she doesnt feel the same way about me as i do to her, and theres like 2 other guys who like this girl. And i dont know what to do. Im afraid to tell her how i feel b/c im afraid she will stop talkin to me b/c she will get overwhelmed, but im 1 of the only ppl she can talk to and idk what would happen. Plus im suicidal, and she knows that, and she says she cares about me and she says she would rather her die then me, but i dont know how much truth there is in that, and im not so sure how she would feel about wanting to have a closer relationship w/ some1 like me. And yes, this was the brief version.

With your girl, i think you could show her this, or something like that which would prove the way you felt and she would believe you. For me, lacy would believe me, but she wouldnt feel the same way for me and i would only have to deal with the way i felt and figure out a way to get over it. But if i dont tell her, i feel safer b/c i know everything is good like it is now. I would do anything to have a closer relationship, but im too scared to try to make it more then what it is. You seem to share the same fears as me. We both want a particular girl more then anything but we are too scared to get her. I think you can do it by just sucking it up. Im not sure if your relationship w/ the girl is as close as mine and lacys. If it is, yes, it will be harder, but she seems to want you to love her or else she wouldnt be asking you to prove it. With lacy, i cant tell her i love her, and i know if i did, she would believe me, but she wouldnt want it to be like that. I believe im screwed and have no chance w/ lacy, but i believe you can do w-e u want w/ this girl as long as you try.

Sorry for the extremely long post, i hope it helps though.

btw, im not like randy and i couldnt be like that, and i suggest you dont do anything that is as stupid as what he did.

[This message has been edited by STORMofDEATH (edited 06-19-2004).]

All right firebird, I see more clearly where you're coming from.You just have a few things to think about.

Can you accept that she's liable to be capricious and make plans yet not follow through with them?

Can you accept she'll change her mind about other things, too, without much regard to your feelings/opinions?

I suspect she doesn't do these things to anger, manipulate or upset you; she's only motivated by what she's emotionally capable of. There's probably a lot behind the "mulitple personalities" and "completely insane" stuff, but we won't go into psychoanalysis here.

Essentially, if you can honestly believe you can accept all the elements of her personality without allowing them to be springboards to arguments, then you might be able to make this work. She obviously likes you, but maybe feels you're not willing to accept the bad with the good, and that you'll try to "fix" her.

If you feel like it, let her know that you recognize her "imperfections" and and that her good points far outweigh those. As Tabiba said, don't have any huge expectations, but let her know that the two of you will deal with hardships as they come up.

I also must say that this level of commitment might be too much for someone at age 16. But if you really want to take a shot at it, it may be worth it.

quote:she's liable to be capricious-Deadly Cindy

oh dear you've been reading those good books again haven't you? you'll only get ideas above your station!

Optimus, a couple months ago, I woulda agreed with you. In fact when people brought it up, I would say that I was obsessed. However, repeated occurences of females calling it "devotion" have changed my opinions on the matter. Oh, and just because a person is obsessed does not mean that they do not love. Nothing I changed was "for her" only because of her. She never really lectured me, and has no particular preference in the areas that I changed. Its just that being around her puts me in a whole new frame of mind. I changed nothing in order to "get" her. I've done many things in order to work my way toward that, but have changed nothing. I have no motivation for being a better guy as you put it, I just lack the demotivation that caused the me, that was me before.

The fight started because I was stupid, and she was irratible ....the combination of these two rarities caused badness. BTW, last night ended well, we may just be pulling back.

Optimus...what you must realize is...She defies all common knowledge about women. If she didn't, if the normal rules applied, I'd be on the ball right now. What you must understand is, she has no "potential dates" she "doesn't date". Hasn't had a b/f in years. All of her friends, everyone who knows her, says that I am the only guy she even talks about or that they think even has a chance. These are people who LIVE with her, these also are people who spend a hell of a lot of time around her, more than I, and (and this isn't meant to be mean but)definetly more than you.

Avenge, I don't call, I don't write, she made me do nothing, and I don't put her on a high pedistal, I compliment her on occasion, but we joke around and poke fun at each other just as much, if not more. Also, BELIEVE ME, she has enough space. The only way for her to get more space would be for me to drop completely off the face of the planet. The taking things how they come part, well, I don't exactly have much choice there.

STORMofDEATH, you just might know whats going on in fact, you put parts of it in there that I didn't even mention that fit perfectly. The prime difference between the two of us...you're suicidal, whereas I'm not.

Cindy, I can, and have accepted her faults. I know that no one is perfect. She is not an exception to that rule. Also, thank you for using the word "commitment" I like that one much better. As for too much...both of us are aged beyond our years. If we get it started, we can handle it. We've already proven that. And I am MOST willing to give it a shot. If I weren't willing to fight for this, if I weren't willing to risk a little, then I would be going out with someone else right now. A low risk, low maintenance girl, with most of the qualities I'm looking for. I know I'm completely crazy to not be doing that, but well...as I said, I am...

Thanks to all. Even you Optimus, because you remind me just slightly of me, before I met her, and you remind me of how much of a grump I was back then. Realize that I know you think you're being realistic, but you'd have to know more of it to get a true picture, things I can't explain to you online, least not on totse.

I don't think he intends to be a "grump", as you say; that's just kind of how he is. Don't hold it against him. He's a smart motherfucker, too.

Not trying to speak for you, Hex/OP. Correct me if you want.

I know this, thats why i said "even you Optimus." I dont' hold it against him. He spoke his views, its what i asked for, he was given thanks.

Get out of it. Just fucking get out of it. This path will lead you nowhere but to pain and regret. You don't need that kind of relationship in your life. It seems to me that what you need most is to become independant from her. If you do that then you will feel much better about yourself and might get her in the process.

Im not suicidal about the girl... and she knows that. I may have mislead you with that. I am just scared of telling her my feelins b/c i think she deals with me enough when i tell her about all the things that are ruining my day, every day. I dont think she would want to worry about me like that if she even did have those kinds of feelings for me, which i doubt she does. You on the otherhand have nothing to worry about when it comes to her having a problem with you. I think you just need to go for it. Do what you must. If showing her this or doing something for her will be proof enough, use it. I dont think she would be leading you on like she is if she didnt have any interest.

From your responses to my questions, you seemed realistic and, as you say, "aged beyond your years". I know people your age who are also more mature than some 30-year-olds I know, and I've seen what they can handle. So I would have urged you to forget it, or kept my mouth shut, if I didn't think you had a shot at making this work.

Thanks cindy. Seeing as you're a mod in this forum, I'm glad I've got you behind me.

Storm, I didn't think you were suicidal about the girl. I meant in general. I'm not one prone to suicide. and you said you were suicidal.

Little Pea, you're right, that is what I need, that is what this will lead to, and its completely possible that I would get her after I followed your advice. Too bad I've tried that. And I'm really tired right now, so no matter how I try to tell the story it'll come out wrong, I'll talk to ya'll later, g'night, fellow totsians.

firebird, If you love her that much, fight to be with her sort stuff out.

or

as infared said try and get her to see this thread email it to her the link whatever...and if she feels the same then there you go.