I'm noticing that most people here in S&A seem to be strongly opposed to age differences and S&M type behaviour. What is this all about? If two people are happy together, what's the issue. They could live their whole lives together happy, or you could rip them apart because of your morals and they could live horrible lives without eachother. Why is it better that they suffer? Anyone?

Children are not supposed to be autonomous right away. They would not survive. Now if 18 is too high a standard could be up for debate, but there is a point when consent is something that is not up to them. This applies to more than just sex.



Consenting adults are different.

People are stupid and strongly oppose stuff they don't see and that doesn't concern them

There is a very funny thing about differences in age: The older the couple get, the closer they get in age.

If a ten year old hooked up with a fifty year old, the age difference would be forty years, or the second party is five times as old as the first party.

In ninety years, though, it would be a one hundred old hooked up with a one hundred and forty year old. The age difference is still forty years, but the second party is only 1.36_ times older then the first party.

Say a twenty year old hooked up with a forty year old, making the age difference twenty years, with the second party being twice as old as the first.

In forty years, it would be a sixty year old hooked up with a eighty year old. The age difference is, again, still the same while the second party is only 1.3_ times older then the first party.

On S&M: I don't really like the whole S&M scene, but I'm not anti-anything. If someone wants to do it, then it's theirs to do. Live, and let live, eh?

about S&M...it is a good thing people oppose it as much as they do...it would not be so fun otherwise

quote:Originally posted by Easy Going:

about S&M...it is a good thing people oppose it as much as they do...it would not be so fun otherwise

Yeah. Everyone's goal is to have people reject their lifestyle so everything they do can be that much more difficult. ...?

it was half a joke, but there is the excitement that comes with a taboo

Heterosexual vanilla sexual relations between two married or at least committed people (one male, one female, obviously) of approximately the same age and social standing is STILL considered some sort of "optimum standard" in this country. The further people deviate from this, the more they're considered (duh) deviants. I find this baffling. It's not like having such a standard has propelled society towards a state of blissful perfection.

What are these "Morals" you speak of?

BUANG!!! Age difference?......absolutly totally unimportant (as long as both are of legal age, of course)!! My BEST AND CLOSEST relationship ever has been a man now almost 3X my age (23 vs. 68). (When I first met him I was 19 and he was 64). And I'm always proud anytime I'm with him!!

S&M....If you like it, it's good. If you don't, then it's not. Simple as that!!

People should live their own lives, and let others live theirs!! Love, Venus.

quote:Originally posted by GlitterPunk112358:

I'm noticing that most people here in S&A seem to be strongly opposed to age differences and S&M type behaviour. What is this all about? If two people are happy together, what's the issue. They could live their whole lives together happy, or you could rip them apart because of your morals and they could live horrible lives without eachother. Why is it better that they suffer? Anyone?

A golden rule people should probably follow? "If it doesn't effect me, why do I give the slightest fuck?" You shoulden't, you should let people live their lives and you live yours. It doesn't have to get any more complicated then that.

Edit: Didn't sound right

Edit 2: Some circumstances may apply in aspects of life.

c2

[This message has been edited by c2 (edited 05-22-2004).]

Sounds right to me!! It can't be said better than c2 and GlitterPunk said it!! Love, Venus.

quote:Originally posted by c2:

..."If it doesn't effect me, why do I give the slightest fuck?"...

It's a little more complicated than that.

wow... age differences can be a bad thing, but s&m is always fun.

see, age differences tend to make you look at a person differently, simply because they're older. this kind of lets them take advantage of you. i mean, i don't know how many 14 year old girls i know who would sleep with an 18 year old guy, simply because they have a crush on them and want their attention.

quote:Originally posted by pretty pinay:

BUANG!!! Age difference?......absolutly totally unimportant (as long as both are of legal age, of course)!! My BEST AND CLOSEST relationship ever has been a man now almost 3X my age (23 vs. 68). (When I first met him I was 19 and he was 64). And I'm always proud anytime I'm with him!!

S&M....If you like it, it's good. If you don't, then it's not. Simple as that!!

People should live their own lives, and let others live theirs!! Love, Venus.

Age differences can be a fucked up thing until both party's are at a reasonable age to decide if it's right or wrong for them. I think the whole two year age difference in the law is a good thing. I'm sure some redneck fuck would otherwise endup in court saying that a six year old conscentd to playing the gimp in an ass raping, sixth month, torture game.

Other then that, people can do whatever the hell they want with there partner so long as there partner conscents.

age difference doesn't much bother me. and even a 12 year girl with a 29 year old man can be ok.

then most 12 year old boys these days would kill just to be seen on the arm of a 28 year old woman! let alone her take them to her bed and 'make men' of them.

[This message has been edited by jackketch (edited 05-21-2004).]

^^^you're right. A four year old girl can decide for herself whether or not she wants to be fucking some 45 year old guy. Society shouldn't be able to impose their beliefs and morals on her .

...I think if a 12 year old or a 4 year old had the capability to do either of those things they would be holding a job.

The reason the laws are set, is becuase the judgement of a child isn't matured. I mean even 18+ year olds make shitty decisions. Aka Penny who wanted to be with a 64 year old man?

I mean, if your tastes are that far off from someone close to your age. Which I would say in the younger years to be around 2 - 3 years then there is something wrong with your sexual appetite.

I knew when I was 12 I didn't want a 29 year old women? I wanted a 12 year old girl who I had a crush on in my math class.

The extreme relationships you are talking about always has something sly coming from one side or the other.

quote:Originally posted by c2:

A golden rule people should probably follow? "If it doesn't effect me, why do I give the slightest fuck?" [This message has been edited by c2 (edited 05-21-2004).]

Because it does affect me. I've had to listen to countless broken hearted screwed up girls because some older guy didn't have the brains or the heart to understand not to get between a person and their FAMILY. I've had to cover for a friend when she didn't have a place to stay because her skeezo working age boyfriend decided it would be fun to have her move in and then got bored of her. Your taxes to go pay for all this useless halfway house, domestic abuse, counselling bullshit that could have been avoided if somebody had just smacked them upside the head.

My problem with age differences is the issue of independence. So you burn the bridge, never go back to your parents/guardian. Guess what? NO ONE ELSE IS OBLIGATED TO PAY FOR YOUR SORRY ASS. If you're under the age of 18, you're a dependant, and one with no credit, no insurance, no potential for a decent income unless you become a crackwhore. If things don't work out, you're stuck. Anyone who claims to care for you shouldn't put you in that kind of position. If they do, then they don't love you.

quote:Originally posted by Little Pea:

^^^you're right. A four year old girl can decide for herself whether or not she wants to be fucking some 45 year old guy. Society shouldn't be able to impose their beliefs and morals on her .



my views, as a self proclaimed 'child of the secret', on the subject of abuse are no secret. i said "can ".it depends on the society in which the child lives not wether the child thinks itself old enough.

there are still places were to be 12 is to be an adult with all that entails.

quote:Originally posted by deadlycindy:

It's not like having such a standard has propelled society towards a state of blissful perfection.

Sure it has! One simply has to redefine "perfection" to fit a conservative sociopolitical agenda.

So far no one has explained why any of this is wrong. Things can go wrong in any relationship. And they will. Big fucking deal. That's no reason why people should have to suffer when they would be happy together. You guys are so closed-minded. Did no one see Harold and Maude?

And about S&M: I guess none of you understood what I was talking about. I mean the kind of shit that goes on all the time. A chick staying home all day to cook for her husband, calling him "master", doing whatever he wants her to. They're both happy, but this is a horrible wrong thing as far as you're concerned. Because a woman must be brainwashed if she's having ideas about sex that deviate from the norm, right?

Why is it wrong for a 20 year old to have a relationship with a 10 year old?

The same reason it's wrong for a man to sleep with an animal. The other partner has no control over the other's actions.

A 10 year old cannot control a 20 year old, and the 20 year old is forcing himself upon the weak mind of a little girl.

If you really don't think there is anything wrong with it then you might as well go find a 40 year old sugar daddy who you can blow for wads of money.

Otherwise stop trying to argue points. It's like asking why is it wrong to shoot dog? Why is it wrong to shoot a wounded soldier? Why is it wrong to steal?

It's the law, that's why.

I think both are over-mythed and stigmatized to fucking death. If it's consensual it's nobody else's business. Which of course brings up the question at what age is someone capable of giving consent. Well, different cultures and countries have different viewpoints on that, which tells that not everyone can be right, so probably everyone is wrong. I personally think it depends on the individual and their mindset.

When I was in the 8th grade, I lived with my dad (and older brother and younger sister) because of being from a divorced family. My dad was a party animal, had friends and (girl) friends around the house a lot. I remember one particular girl, must have been in her mid 20's, that was hinting around at 'deflowering' my older brother, (he was 9th grade). I was 14 then and would have jumped at the chance to get in bed with that girl. Would that have fucked me up mentally for life? I doubt it. As it turned out I never got laid till I was about 20 and I'm a pretty fucked up individual anyway. Had I got it earlier maybe I'd have turned out alright.. who knows?

As for the S&M, again, if it's consensual it's nogodamnbody's business but the consentee's. Anybody wanting to control someone else's fetishes has a problem far worse than the two consenting people who just want to beat the shit out of each other, or whatever it is they're into. This little game of life we're born into to play out is better when you don't have some rigid uptight person/society telling you you're a deviant and are bad and wrong because "You don't have the same belief system and pure standards that I uphold".

-Extant

morals just restrict your possibilities in life. flame on, because if you think im stupid enough to think that that applies to 12yo girls fucking 60yo guys, your not worth my time of writing a response.

quote:Otherwise stop trying to argue points. It's like asking why is it wrong to shoot dog? Why is it wrong to shoot a wounded soldier? Why is it wrong to steal?

It's the law, that's why.

If the dog is badly hurt then its right to shoot it if you can't save it.

Depends on the war. If people invaded the USA then I hope that we shoot them, chop off their heads and fucking stick them on poles to warn the others away.

NO ONE FUCKS WITH THE USA AND LIVES!

Sadly the government likes to go off on wars that piss off other nations. I don't agree with this at all but I would die for my country as long as the war threatened the USA. Some war in a sand box has little to do with american freedom. The UN or NK invading does!

Some behaivor is ok; depends on the context

quote:Originally posted by CarbonB:



The same reason it's wrong for a man to sleep with an animal. The other partner has no control over the other's actions.



That's the biggest load of crap I've ever heard. Beastiality is wrong because the animal isn't consenting? WTF? Animals don't consent to being owned by people or being killed for food. The affect on the animal is relatively irrelavent. Sex has three main possible purposes: pleasure, reproduction, expression of feelings. Reproduction obviously isn't the case nor is expression of feelings since an animal is incapable of having romantic feelings and as a result a person should not have such feelings for an animal. So pleasure is the main reason one would do that however there are some problems with this. This is that the animal while obviously not being human is still animate rather than completely being an object. For a person to seek pleasure from something animate but not human ultimately warps the mind of the person and already represents a warped mind to begin with. As a result, indulging in this is bad for the person and society.

With older man with a young girl there are more issues to deal with. First of all one can knock off any reason other than pleasure for the man's reason since the young girl isn't at the level of mental development that would make her capable of having true meaningful feelings for the man nor would she likely have much stemming from the human intellect that is meaningful to bring to the relationship for the older man to get much out of it mentally. This doesn't mean that the girl is completely immature or stupid or anything but simply at a compeltely different stage in life than the older man. So the man is only in it for pleasure and control. With the man only in it for pleasure and control then the girl isn't getting anything emotionally(that is actually real) from the man yet most often is mislead to believe that she is and feels that he is in love with her and herself in love with him(as a result of manipulation by the man). Thus the guy is getting something from the girl while simultaneously causing harm to her in that she either becomes dependant on these false feelings resulting in her being used even more and then in the psychological damage when it eventual crashes down so she sees how she's been used and hurt by the man. So, not only is the man using her but he is also causing other harm to her as well. This is simply wrong.

for everyone saying it is or is not ok for a 12 year old girl and a 40 year old man to have a relationship, you cant really set a standard for this. Every relationship is different, one of these relationships might be meaningful, and not controlly making it alright. But another can be something completly opposite, and not ok, that is why the government just says no to all of them.

There are going to be an extremely small number of instances where a 12 year old girl and a 40 year old guy can have a meaningful romantic relationship. Even if the guy isn't just using her they're just at two differenct maturity levels and stages in life for them to actually have that sort of relationship.

quote:Originally posted by Little Pea:

It's a little more complicated than that.

Umm, no, it's not. The only thing that make it more complicated is when people don't mind there own damn business. (Except in certain cases where intervention is necessary, obviously)

quote:Originally posted by cushman:

for everyone saying it is or is not ok for a 12 year old girl and a 40 year old man to have a relationship, you cant really set a standard for this.

Sure you can. One standard is as arbitrary as the next.

quote:Originally posted by Quantum:

NO ONE FUCKS WITH THE USA AND LIVES!

How do you define "The USA"? And what about Mr. Bin Laden?

quote:Originally posted by JohnTitorsAssistant:

Because it does affect me. I've had to listen to countless broken hearted screwed up girls because some older guy didn't have the brains or the heart to understand not to get between a person and their FAMILY. I've had to cover for a friend when she didn't have a place to stay because her skeezo working age boyfriend decided it would be fun to have her move in and then got bored of her.

Then it directly effects you, so you should give a fuck cause it's taking up your time having you take action, now since it involved the familly of the girl you helped first they should have taken care of it, but since none of your troubles with the girl and her older boyfriends have any relations to me, I can safely and selfishly say, I couldn't give a shit less.

c2

quote:Originally posted by GlitterPunk112358:

...And about S&M: I guess none of you understood what I was talking about. I mean the kind of shit that goes on all the time. A chick staying home all day to cook for her husband, calling him "master", doing whatever he wants her to. They're both happy, but this is a horrible wrong thing as far as you're concerned. Because a woman must be brainwashed if she's having ideas about sex that deviate from the norm, right?

No one here seems to have a problem with S&M in any way.

I a healthy realtionship the persons involed should have to same level of mental health and maturity. If a 12 year old and a 40 year old are in a relationship together either one or both must have major issues.

If you disaprove of fucking a 12 year old while she wears leather and bites a whip, you're probobly into morals..

I'm not going to touch the age thing, because with any reasonable standard model there will be perfectly acceptable exceptions. The whole purpose of the age of concent laws we have now is to minimize those exceptions while still protecting those that need it.

As far as the rest of it goes, as long as everyone concents, do what you want. If you're into eating each other's shit, it's not my place to tell you that you can't, as long as I don't have to hear about it.

quote:Originally posted by cushman:

for everyone saying it is or is not ok for a 12 year old girl and a 40 year old man to have a relationship, you cant really set a standard for this.

Personally, I'm not setting a standard for the age gap, but the age of the younger participant. The forty year old, at the very least, should know that people have time, in great abundance. He's probably waited for things in life, especially when the risk to the mental health and reputation of the 12 year old is so high. The fact that the 40 year old (man or woman) isn't willing to regard that means that they're in it to scam the 12 year old. Not many people have the same issues with a twenty year old and a sixty year old. (see Hugh Hefner)

quote:Originally posted by Little Pea:

No one here seems to have a problem with S&M in any way.

I a healthy realtionship the persons involed should have to same level of mental health and maturity. If a 12 year old and a 40 year old are in a relationship together either one or both must have major issues.



Have you not been paying attention to the shit people say to "henteichicken" or whatver her name is?

bdsm is fun.



safe sane and consentual