Why is it that damn near any person you talk to will hear about 6-year-olds being "boyfriend and girlfriend" and think nothing of it, but hear a 14-year-old declare that she's not of the accepted sexual orientation and suddenly she's too young to make that kind of "decision"? You can be normal at any age, but you can't be weird until you're 18? How does this make any sense? Most kids know they're straight at a young age. Often when they're 12 or under. I knew when I was 10 that I liked girls as well as guys. It was just something I accepted and went with. It was just another part of who I was, nothing too important. Then I found out when I was 12 that this was one of those things that people would look at above everything else. And people would either hate me for it or say that I wasn't ready for a decision like that. Now that I'm 14 (that's 4 years "not knowing who I am"), I still take shit for being too young. What the fuck is this obsession with telling people who they are? Carbon, any thoughts?

It is because while most people say you are born with your sexual orientation hardwired in your genes because it is the PC thing to say, they actually believe that it is a choice based on various influencing factors. Power is kind of weird in how it behaves. The powers that be have decided that it is okay and natural for gay adults to be together, but six year old Sally cannot play doctor with six year old Jenny. You have to keep in mind that both claims are the result of power/influence. Neither side has been “proven” true or false. Yeah, I know its tough, but that is why it is the way it is.

Ah! You just hit a nerve. Just because you're not born with something doesn't mean that it's a choice. I hate that people can't make that distinction. People would not choose to be outcast from society if they could. Who in the hell would want to be killed for being gay? Who would decide to do that? No one. It's not a decision

quote:Originally posted by GlitterPunk112358:

Ah! You just hit a nerve.

Me? I did not say that was my opinion. That is just the answer to your question of why people act like they do.

quote:Originally posted by Easy Going:

Me? I did not say that was my opinion. That is just the answer to your question of why people act like they do.

Yeah, that was poor phrasing. I meant that those people piss me off; not that you do

its okay, besides, I would probably piss you off if I gave you my real opinion on the matter. I usually stay out of topics like this for good reason.

quote:Originally posted by Easy Going:

its okay, besides, I would probably piss you off if I gave you my real opinion on the matter. I usually stay out of topics like this for good reason.

Erm, I didn't create the topic so that everyone could come in and tell me that they agree and the world should be more accepting. I created it so that people would tell me their opinions. Besides, I never really get pissed off at anything that happens over the internet. So what is your opinion on the matter?

Note that my saying I don't get pissed off online and that I want to know what you think does not mean that I won't call you an idiot for believing something I don't

People like to get pissy about things that are none of their fucking business (such as other people's sexual preferences.) If everyone would just shut the fuck up and mind their own goddamn business, the world would be a much, much better place.

if you want to be gay i think that's just fine whatever age you may be, but there's a big difference between you and a six year old. when a six year old has a "girlfriend" there's nothing sexual about it. unless they have an older brother or sister there's a good chance they don't have a clue what sex is.

besides, it's not age that matters in something like this, it's maturity. if you're a mature person then you should be able to make judgements about your sexuality regardless of age.

just out of curiosity, do you live in the bible belt?

Dont be so quick to label yourself.

Go out and experiment but dont be so hasty to apply a restrictive label unless you are VERY sure.

Peace Land and Bread!

Okay Glitter. All sexuality is a choice. It is a state of mind and you can let your environment decide for you, or you can take control. Most people allow life to happen to them, but that does not mean that is their only option, even if they believe otherwise. Kids are often too open to influence and less capable of dealing with the consequences of their choices. That is why you are too young to be hanging out with old dudes, and why you are too young to decide your sexual orientation for the rest of your life. You may be bi now, but later it may be just a phase, or you may still be bi. Many people older than you change. Some know before 18 and some just think they do. It is one of those things you know for sure with hind sight.

Because people who look at you different for that are ignorant.Obviosly thats the way things are. Do they think your going to go back and change your mind when your older.

EDIT: Thats an interesting philosophy, though about the choice.

[This message has been edited by Clemency (edited 05-14-2004).]

quote:Why is it that damn near any person you talk to will hear about 6-year-olds being "boyfriend and girlfriend" and think nothing of it, but hear a 14-year-old declare that she's not of the accepted sexual orientation and suddenly she's too young to make that kind of "decision"?

It's not that society is actively trying to discourage people from expressing a lifestyle choice (or genetic predisposition or whatever it happens to be) which differs from the norm -- it's just that in the absence of any concrete certainty and given the fact that people as young as 14 aren't necessarily physically, psychologically, emotionally, and sexually mature yet, it makes sense to assume (even on a purely statistical basis) that they'll probably turn out like the majority of people (e.g. straight).

quote:You can be normal at any age, but you can't be weird until you're 18? How does this make any sense?

Well I for one never said that a person could be normal at any age -- in fact, most people who study psychology or psychiatry agree that the notion of normalcy is an artificial construct -- it doesn't exist aside from the fact that we think it exists or that we might want to achieve it.

Most people under the age of 18 aren't necessarily sure of who they are or what they are, and I think that a lot of the friction we see between 'adults' and 'rebellious youth' is because our bodies and minds tell us we're mature and 'adult society' doesn't.

And why not think so? Young men and women, some as young as 14, were married and starting to have kids and property and businesses as recently as two- or three-hundred years ago. In some modern societies, this still happens.

And it's only the need for a formalized education that really keeps young people bound to their parents (and to the system) until they're 18 -- I think any notion that ALL minors are immature is false. But escaping the stereotype placed on the majority of your peers (e.g. that you're under the influence of fluctuating hormones) isn't exactly easy to do or to demonstrate.

quote:Most kids know they're straight at a young age. Often when they're 12 or under. I knew when I was 10 that I liked girls as well as guys. It was just something I accepted and went with. It was just another part of who I was, nothing too important.

I'm actually glad that you're both comfortable with your sexuality and that you've got the maturity to express it -- you're miles further toward being emotionally healthy than most of your peers.

quote:Then I found out when I was 12 that this was one of those things that people would look at above everything else. And people would either hate me for it or say that I wasn't ready for a decision like that. Now that I'm 14 (that's 4 years "not knowing who I am"), I still take shit for being too young. What the fuck is this obsession with telling people who they are? Carbon, any thoughts?

It's a shitty system, I'll admit. And I'm not saying who you should be, or even that I know what you say you are ... all I can point out is that until you reach the age where society starts to relax its stranglehold on your rights and priveleges to live the way you want, some people won't take you seriously and others will doubt your judgement.

Take me for example -- I'm supposedly a gifted individual and that I've got the rational sense to make some good decisions. By all rights, I could probably have voted in an election as early as fifteen, but the law here says eighteen. My loss, I guess.

But I'd point out that it's only four more years (and quite possibly less) before people begin to take you more seriously and to respect your right to decide things for yourself. That's adulthood for you.

Four years isn't a long time, during which you can enjoy your decided-upon sexual identity while some others your age are still trying to figure things out.

I'm skeptical of bisexuality as a true biological tendency, but i know that i liked girls when i was like 10 and i know that my brother liked boys when he was about 12, so 14 is definitely old enough toknow something is different about you, but like i said, i'm not sure true bisexuality actually exists.

Hmmmmmm, it's intriguing to me... to see you mention my name more often Glitter?

As if something in my messages draws you to my opinion.

If you want me to comment then I will. I think that a lot of people don't really know who they are even until the day they die.

I myself often don't realize certain things I do or why I do them.

What type of person I am, what kind of friends I have. All this relates to "discovering who you are". If you say that 4 years of not knowing how to act and feel towards the same or opposite sex isn't hard compared to some.

Men who have had wives and kids who realize they've been living a lie and denying themselves the pleasure of acting themselves in society is hard.

Going 30 years not knowing if sleeping with the man who you loved was right is hard.

I think you are young and we were all once young and still I have doubts about myself(not sexual orientation mind you), but personal subjects.

I think you just need to wait, no matter what anyone says your still going to stress about it. Until you indulge in the pleasures you think you seek you will never know if you truely with to have them.

This is only my opinion though and I guess you can take it with a grain of salt.

Carbon, I like to hear your opinion on things because the more you talk, the less I understand you. It could just be that I don't want to accept a person who can't get through his head the idea that he can't know everything about everybody in the world.

Whatever, to resopond to what you said, I stated that I knew my sexuality when I was younger and before I had acted on it. I didn't say that I haven't acted on it since then

quote:Originally posted by theBishop:

I'm skeptical of bisexuality as a true biological tendency

What does any of this have to do with biological tendencies?

Maybe you need to realize that at the tender age of 14 that you need to either act dumb, or continue thinking your better then everyone else and be harassed.

I sure as hell would of harassed you if you went to my school.

I might sound like I ramble sometimes and it's incoherent to anyone else, but does that really matter?

You are 14, you are a kid, you have no idea what pain is.

Think before speaking...then join the ASL club.

MrEricSir, there's a difference between being gay, and being a guy sucking a dick. We have control of our bodies and can do whatever we want with them. For instance I could have sex with a man, but i dont nor do i have any interest to. I am a heterosexual. I believe that some people actually have a biological urge that is different than mine towards the same sex.

However, i am suspicious of someone who claims they are interested in both sexes. My main suspicion is every "bisexual" i've personnally spoken with says they have a preference towards one sex. One possible explanation for this is a heterosexual who isn't grossed out at the prospect of having sex with the same sex. In this case they are still heterosexual. Another possibility is a homosexual who has been trying to "develop a taste" for the opposite sex for whatever reason. In this case, their natural tendency is homosexuality.

The reason i bring this up is that the girl is dealing with self identity. She's wondering why people don't believe she's old enough to figure out who she is.

theBishop

Carbon, again I don't know what the fuck you're talking about. What does the fact that I don't know pain have to do with anything? I'm not talking about pain. I'm talking about sexuality. Just because I don't sit around cutting myself and crying every day because assholes like you don't accept me doesn't mean that your not accepting me is any less stupid or wrong

I say pain in reference to your earlier comment about "not knowing who you were for 4 years".

You really think that you have a hard life? I mean give me a break. Get a bigger perspective of life because you don't know shit.

I may be an asshole, and you may dislike me, but in all regards you can't begin to fathom why people do the things they do.

Anyways, you can say you don't understand me. You can say I'm an asshole. I know though that you are just incoherent to the fact that you don't know everything, and you won't know a lot until you grow older.

If your ready that do it.

quote:Originally posted by CarbonB:

I say pain in reference to your earlier comment about "not knowing who you were for 4 years".

You really think that you have a hard life? I mean give me a break. Get a bigger perspective of life because you don't know shit.

I may be an asshole, and you may dislike me, but in all regards you can't begin to fathom why people do the things they do.

Anyways, you can say you don't understand me. You can say I'm an asshole. I know though that you are just incoherent to the fact that you don't know everything, and you won't know a lot until you grow older.

You're an idiot who can't understand sarcasm. I knew who I was for all of the 5 years and I continue to know who I am. By your standards, I'm totally lost. And your standards are dumb. What I don't get is how you couldn't understand simply from context that I didn't actually feel lost for 4 years. In these years, I've thought I was bisexual. I still think that. ...so how could I have been lost then and not now? Jesus, you're dense

quote:Originally posted by theBishop:

I believe that some people actually have a biological urge that is different than mine towards the same sex.

But sexuality isn't strictly a biological urge!

quote:Originally posted by theBishop:

However, i am suspicious of someone who claims they are interested in both sexes. My main suspicion is every "bisexual" i've personnally spoken with says they have a preference towards one sex. One possible explanation for this is a heterosexual who isn't grossed out at the prospect of having sex with the same sex. In this case they are still heterosexual. Another possibility is a homosexual who has been trying to "develop a taste" for the opposite sex for whatever reason. In this case, their natural tendency is homosexuality.

Having a "tendency" doesn't mean much. For example, I've known people who have a tendency towards fat girls, but that doesn't mean they always pick fat girls to have sex with. Likewise, gender is just another attribute of a person that someone might or might not take into consideration to varying degrees when chosing a partner.

quote:Originally posted by CarbonB:

You are 14, you are a kid, you have no idea what pain is.

Really? So 14 year olds never have any hardship or pain? My sisters died in a car accident 2 weeks before my 14th birthday.

Do you think I really give a shit if your sisters died?

Do you think I'm growing emotionally from you telling me this?

I think a lot of 14 year olds on here don't know what pain is, and you are included in that assessment.

The only thing you can say to me Glitter is that I'm an idiot. Well that's great and all, but you still are the one who said you were lost.

quote:Originally posted by CarbonB:

Do you think I really give a shit if your sisters died?

Do you think I'm growing emotionally from you telling me this?

I think a lot of 14 year olds on here don't know what pain is, and you are included in that assessment.

The only thing you can say to me Glitter is that I'm an idiot. Well that's great and all, but you still are the one who said you were lost.

Alright, sweetheart, tell me about pain. What is real pain? If the death of a family member doesn't count, what does?

^ It's very simple -- CarbonB not only has the intellect of a brick, but the emotions of one as well.

What's wrong with having a cold heart?

Why should I open myself up to the tragedies of others?

I think it is just unbecoming of myself to be concerned over the affairs of others.

I can't explain my emotinoless state, but maybe just maybe Totse will lead me in the right direction! *tear*

BWUAHAHAAH!

I think I can answer, or at least give some insight (shallow insight) into the question of why people think you’re too young to make such a decision; if you want to look at it as a ‘decision.’

Now, you’re name is Glitterpunk and I know you listen to a lot of punk bands, but that’s all I know. Do you dress like a punk? Is your hair a different color every week? Do you wear yellow-plaid bondage pants and t-shirts that say ‘Fuck teh system!!!1” (you know what I mean.) These kinds of things just scream give me attention and nothing will get attention like a girl making out with another girl.

I’m not saying your appearance ruins your credibility, but think of how it looks to the more ignorant masses, especially when this kind of thing happens all the time.

I know I’d have a hard time trusting you. I knew these two Goth girls in grade nine that used to be pretty hard-core bi. Now, they’re both totally different people. The Goth phase stuck, but the sexual orientation thing faded.

I’m not saying you’re faking your sexuality at all, but I understand why people question you. Every teenage bisexual* I know has grown out of it by the time they’re 19.

*I can think of at least 6 people who were bi when they were younger. I live in Toronto, the second gayest city in the world, and I go to a school of the performing arts. I know it’s a stereotype, but it’s true.

PS: CarbonB- you got your ass owned by a 14 year old.



[This message has been edited by nocuous (edited 05-17-2004).]

Hey, nocuous, haven't seen you here in awhile. How ya been?

I can see how you might not trust a person who walks around in attention-getting attire to be the most sensible and not-faking-it kind of person. However, punk is just a word in my username. Nothing more. The term "glitterpunk" is one I came up with to mock names like "gothprincess" that basically make no sense. This was before I ever listened to the New York Dolls, of course. But I dress pretty much like any other person.

I don't see how you can talk crap to gothprincess when you yourself are as much of a loser as her.

quote:Originally posted by CarbonB:

I don't see how you can talk crap to gothprincess when you yourself are as much of a loser as her.

Don't be in a forum where you're required to read if you don't know how. It's simple. You just make an ass of yourself by talking about shit that has no relevance. I didn't say a fucking thing about gothprincess. I was just using her name as an example

dr. JoJo says knowing your sexual preferance when your 10 is unlikey, up until the age of 12(bout when puberty kicks in) boys and girls are pysiologicaly the same except for the clearly obvious.

And its not a peoples obbsesion with telling people who they are, you ask for advice and people tell the best they can from past experiences sometimes its right sometimes its wrong,by being 14 you lack life experience and you will most likey change your mind serveral times so dun snap it at people who care n stuff.

-TTFN

That's odd, because I vaguely remember reading a couple of posts from you about how you don't like gothprincess.

How you think she is probably some attention whore and is a complete "idiot".

I am pretty sure that I remember correctly. So, for you calling me an idiot just really solidifies the fact that YOU have no idea what your talking about.

quote:Originally posted by CarbonB:

That's odd, because I vaguely remember reading a couple of posts from you about how you don't like gothprincess.

How you think she is probably some attention whore and is a complete "idiot".

I am pretty sure that I remember correctly. So, for you calling me an idiot just really solidifies the fact that YOU have no idea what your talking about.

I don't remember that, but it could have happened in theory. I don't remember everything. But I know I didn't say it in tis thread, and that's what makes it irrelevant. Dumbass (there, a word other than idiot. Happy?)

Oh great, CarbonB is seemly a equal oppertunity asshole!



quote:Originally posted by CarbonB:

What's wrong with having a cold heart?

Why should I open myself up to the tragedies of others?

I think it is just unbecoming of myself to be concerned over the affairs of others.

I can't explain my emotinoless state, but maybe just maybe Totse will lead me in the right direction! *tear*

BWUAHAHAAH!



...and from the looks of it, I'm beginning to like this guy!!

Gitter, most of the time, most of those people don't know their own shit from their own ass, let alone what life is about.

I sure the hell don't

There are a few however, that do know something about you that don't know.

Easier to know what a people is instead of who they are.

The obession with others telling others what they are?

Takes the focus off of themselves, it's easier.

They are older, making them "qualitfied" for telling you what to do.

If it's because you are young, it might because of jealousy.

Normal? What the fuck is normal?

I know what average is, but there is really no thing as normal.

I'm rambling random thoughts here but I hoped this somewhat helped..

and if it didn't, ahh, I tried.

I tried to get through your post.

I got through somewhat, but you were probably tired which you stated and just tried to get all your ideas out before you passed out at the computer.

It is relivant since it was posted. Just becuase your hate filled feelings for someone isn't in the specific thread doesn't mean they aren't relivant to your relation with that person.

It's ok, I'll never sweat a little girl.