Hey all;

I'm writing a paper on the the impact of so-called "rape-crisis feminism" on mid-to-late adolescant relationships. About 90% of the sources I've found are at least ten years old, though! In the interest of making sure I have at least *some* current data, I've decided a survey wouldn't hurt.

When the paper's done, I'll post the results on the front page. The more responses I get, the better (or at least more accurate) it will be!

Question one: How do you define rape?

Question two: How do you define physical abuse?

Question three: How do you define sexual harrassment?

Question four: How many people do you know who have been raped? About what age were they when it happened?

Question five: Whose responsibility do you think it is to keep rape from happening?

Question six: What makes rape different from sex?

Question seven: Why do you think rape is such a hot topic on college campuses?

Question eight: What are some things women can do to prevent getting raped?

Question nine: What are some things men can do to avoid getting accused of rape?

Thanks in advance, ladies and gentlemen!

Question one: How do you define rape? A woman being unwillingly forced into sexual acts. Being taken advantage of is a sorta shady topic. If the guy is clearly told no yet continues, it's rape. If the girl is drunk and agrees to or initiates the sex it's not rape.

Question two: How do you define physical abuse? Being groped without consent, being hit, kicked, bitten, anything like that.



Question three: How do you define sexual harrassment? Lewd comments, making someone feel insecure/self conscious about their sexuality or looks, jokes and teasing to the point that you feel uncomfortabe

Question four: How many people do you know who have been raped? About what age were they when it happened? 0.

Question five: Whose responsibility do you think it is to keep rape from happening?

Everyone. If you see it going on around you then stop it. Watch how much you and your friends drink.



Question six: What makes rape different from sex? It is without consent

Question seven: Why do you think rape is such a hot topic on college campuses?

Many parties, people drinking more than they can handle, guys getting drunk and possibly violent.

Question eight: What are some things women can do to prevent getting raped? Watch what they drink and make sure it's not spiked, drink in moderation, go out with friends, don't go back to strangers or any dodgy persons apartment when drunk



Question nine: What are some things men can do to avoid getting accused of rape? Not fuck drunk girls i guess

1. I define rape as unwilling sexual intercourse, or sex with someone who is too young to understand what they're doing.

2. Physical abuse is any kind of unwanted touching that hurts someone; it differs from SEXUAL abuse by having to physically hurt someone.

3. Sexual harassment is any unwanted touching that the person being harassed tries to prevent [if they don't say anything, how are they supposed to know..]

4. none.

5. It is the community's responsibility to be aware, helping to keep rape from happening. example: ignoring someone who's being sexually harassed, which could easily lead to rape.

6. Rape is different from sex in that it is unwanted.

7. Rape is such a hot topic for several reasons. one is that its very easy for a girl to claim rape when she actually consented [i.e. "i was drunk and he took advantage of me"]. Another is that it can result in life-changing STDS contracted and also in pregnancy.

8. There are many ways a woman can prevent being raped. these include:

a. don't walk alone at night in the city, or in secluded places during the day taht are known to be unsafe.

b. if attacked, fight back. rapists often won't go after someone who fights back, preferring to go find an easier target.

c. be vocal. if someone attacks you with the intent of rape, yell your fucking head off. and i've heard that yelling "fire!" works better than "rape" because people are less willing to get involved in a rape crime.

d. carry a cell phone, so that if someone's following you, you can get on the phone with the police or someone that can come pick you up or help protect you.

e. make sure your friends watch you at a party where you know you'll be stoned or wasted. its much easier to take advantage of an incapacitated individual.

9. there arent very many ways for men to keep from being accused of rape, because it all boils down to the whole 'he said she said' argument. mainly just make sure she consents and isnt underage or anything..and don't be stupid about it. if you KNOW she wouldnt do it if she was sober, dont take advantage of her being drunk.

hope that helped!

quote:Originally posted by Schraff:



Question one: How do you define rape?

Question two: How do you define physical abuse?

Question three: How do you define sexual harrassment?

Question four: How many people do you know who have been raped? About what age were they when it happened?

Question five: Whose responsibility do you think it is to keep rape from happening?

Question six: What makes rape different from sex?

Question seven: Why do you think rape is such a hot topic on college campuses?

Question eight: What are some things women can do to prevent getting raped?

Question nine: What are some things men can do to avoid getting accused of rape?

Thanks in advance, ladies and gentlemen!

Uno: Forced sexual intercourse on an unwilling partner.

Dos: Physically attacking or otherwise harming someone.

Tres: See definition for "bullshit" and "yet another way for feminazis to make us all look bad". "He called me cute!" Did he really do such a heinous thing?

Cuatro: One, and she was 20.

Cinco: Partially one's own.

Seis: It isn't consentual.

Siete: Because college men are horny animals and college women are most likely horny sluts.

Ocho: Stop being cockteases (however subtley, all of them are), and use your head. If your thong is showing and you take the dark back alley home, you will probably get raped.



Nueve: There's nothing they can do, because women are insidious. Well, they can castrate themselves; how could a man rape a woman if he lacks the equipment?

quote:Originally posted by Schraff:

Hey all;

I'm writing a paper on the the impact of so-called "rape-crisis feminism" on mid-to-late adolescant relationships. About 90% of the sources I've found are at least ten years old, though! In the interest of making sure I have at least *some* current data, I've decided a survey wouldn't hurt.

When the paper's done, I'll post the results on the front page. The more responses I get, the better (or at least more accurate) it will be!

Question one: How do you define rape?

Question two: How do you define physical abuse?

Question three: How do you define sexual harrassment?

Question four: How many people do you know who have been raped? About what age were they when it happened?

Question five: Whose responsibility do you think it is to keep rape from happening?

Question six: What makes rape different from sex?

Question seven: Why do you think rape is such a hot topic on college campuses?

Question eight: What are some things women can do to prevent getting raped?

Question nine: What are some things men can do to avoid getting accused of rape?

Thanks in advance, ladies and gentlemen!

Umm this says rape is a one way thing, how can a crime be perpetrated by one sex but not the other? Rape is just a tool used by neo feminists to gain subliminal control and further sexually repress todays young men. People seem to misunderstand what rape is. Before rape was a woman who was forced into sexual intercourse. Now rape is sex. If a man has sex with a woman who says yes, he can still be put in prison for nothing. A woman can lie in court and because of our biased police-state laws a woman can lie and get away with it. Now a woman can be a huge whore and seduce whoever she wants and then sue them. It's bullshit when some college girl who has sex with 10 people a day gets drunk and has sex with some unsuspecting person and then says she has been raped and oh shes oh so innocent. Society of today is bullshit, in conclusion. If we were living thousands of years ago, a strong male has sex with whoever he wants, because he's strong enough to pass on his genes, and thats the way nature works. I'd like to see feminists try to exist in a natural culture. They'd quickly be laughed at and forcibly copulated.

Also, The idea that only one sex can commit a crime is a huge hypocracy, and something you'd think you'd find somewhere like North Korea, not in a more enlightened and modern country. Unfortunately sexually unfit women have affected our culture by brainwashing our young children of both sexes to be repressed, using legislature, and it is a real shame.

1. Rape is sex when a woman clearly says "No." If a woman doesn't consent, but makes no attempt to stop the act, she WAS NOT raped.

2. Physical abuse is any form of physical pain placed upon a person in a non-consenting circumstance.

3. Sexual Harrasment is inappropriate touching, inappropriate suggestions (such as asking for a sexual favor), or prying further into someone's sexuality than that person would like to divulge.

4. 3: ages 16, 14, 17 (i believe)

5. It is society and the woman's responsibility to keep rape from happening.

6. With rape, one party is opposed to the act, and one is forcing the act upon the other.

7. Because rape is overhyped on the media and because it is an all to common recourance which most women, especially college age, will worry about at one point.

8. A woman can keep herself in safe situations. No walking alone at night or in a non-public area; no going out as the only girl in a group of guys; if at a party, be with someone...a rapist wants a target who is alone; walk with a stronger confident walk (head up, straight back etc.). Rapists tend to go for the woman who seems to be shy because there is a lesser chance of a girl with low self-esteem fighting back; carry mase, or another non-lethal weapon. A womans physical strength can not out match that of a man, but mase will give the woman time to escape; As said above, carry a cell phone.

9. Avoid sleeping with girls who are not sober. Don't act sketchy, and always have an alabi (spelled how? Sorry!). Make sure people know where you are and someone will be able to save you from jail where you to get accused.

Question one: Forced sexual intercourse

Question two: physicaly harming someone without acceptable reasoning

Question three: Unwanted sexual remarks or actions known by the abuser to be unwelcome

Question four: 4 I think, none really personally though, between the ages of 15 and 19 I think

Question five: I don't really think it's anyones "responsibility". People need to be responsible for their own safety, but if they are raped it doesn't make it their fault.

Question six: It's forced

Question seven: Lot's of people getting drunk, living on their own, lots of possibilities.

Question eight: Don't put themselves in situations where they might get raped. Know and trust the people they party or just hang out with.

Question nine: Don't rape chicks, don't be a jerk, don't get famous

Question one: How do you define rape?

Any unwanted sexual acts

Question two: How do you define physical abuse?

Physical mistreatment.

Question three: How do you define sexual harrassment?

Unwanted sexual comments, jokes, touches, etc.

Question four: How many people do you know who have been raped? About what age were they when it happened?

Not including statutory rape, no one.

Question five: Whose responsibility do you think it is to keep rape from happening?

Society

Question six: What makes rape different from sex?

Sex is two consentual partners while rape is not.

Question seven: Why do you think rape is such a hot topic on college campuses?

Because alot of young adults put them selfs in dangerous situations, like getting totally wasted at a frat party where they dont know anyone.

Question eight: What are some things women can do to prevent getting raped?

-If you go out drinking make sure you go with friends you know and trust and make sure they know where you are at all times.

-Dont go off by yourself in unfamilar places

-Trust your instincts! If you feel uncomfortable in a situation its not rude to leave.

-Be aware of your surroundings.

Question nine: What are some things men can do to avoid getting accused of rape?

Dont sleep with drunk girls and stop if a girl says no.

Question one: How do you define rape?

Forcing someone into sexual acts by violence or threat of violence. Certain types of coercion would also apply, but it's a very gray area, dependant on situational specifics more than anything.

Question two: How do you define physical abuse?

Causing physical harm to another person. Note that some people like it. If the question implies "bad" abuse, then it's abuse the recipient doesn't like. Simple.

Question three: How do you define sexual harrassment?

*Purposely* making lewd comments or actions towards someone to make them feel uncomfortable, knowing that it will make them feel uncomfortable but not caring, or doing something that has a reasonable chance of offending someone if you don't know their sense of humor or tolerance for such. By comparison, it is *not* saying or doing something while honestly believing others listening or involved won't be bothered.

Question four: How many people do you know who have been raped? About what age were they when it happened?

Several; four or five come to mind right away, but thinking back, it's probably more. One happened at age ten (stepfather), but I believe most were teens. I'm not aware of the details for the majority, as all the girls I know who have been raped had it happen before I met them.

Question five: Whose responsibility do you think it is to keep rape from happening?

Everyone's, as a general rule. Circumstances will dictate precisely who could have affected a situation. Guys need to learn that girls do have the right to tease and then say no, and girls need to learn that some guys aren't going to deal well if they go too far before trying to stop things.

This, of course, refers to relative gray areas like drunken sex at parties and such; there are plenty of more overt cases where the guy is simply a neanderthalic jackass, and is failing his responsibility of not being a neanderthalic jackass.

Question six: What makes rape different from sex?

Both parties want sex.

Question seven: Why do you think rape is such a hot topic on college campuses?

The situations which lead to rape- drunk people, large gatherings, plenty of people on both sides of the gender fence not knowing what the fuck they're doing or what they want, drunk people- are much more prevalent on college campuses and in the student areas of surrounding communities than in the rest of the world.

Question eight: What are some things women can do to prevent getting raped?

-Realize the law will only protect you after you've been raped, and it's likely a guy about to rape you isn't thinking about that at the moment. Tease him on the dance floor if you will, but don't go off with him alone or to a place with a few people who won't do shit for you unless you're prepared to fuck him willingly.

-Learn self-defense. Not some bullshit women's course at the local high school or community center, some real martial arts that will allow you to disable someone and get the hell out of dodge, if not fuck him up completely. I know a female shotokan brown belt who can pull some devastating shit. She's not special, anyone with the desire can learn it too.

-Don't get plastered. 'Nuff said. Drink only as much as you can while still being able to make conscious decisions. (Whether or not you're happy with those decisions later is another story.)

-If you just have to get wasted, bring plenty of friends who will get you out of a bad situation should one occur.

-You have a brain. Use it.

Question nine: What are some things men can do to avoid getting accused of rape?

-Don't do it.

-Know your partners as best you can, and avoid the fuckups.

-If you don't know her, but she appears to be saddled with dubious judgment and/or a fickle nature, walk away. It may be hard, especially if you are, but remember that the courts are not completely in tune with reality yet. Girls still have the advantage in rape cases, especially if they can put on a good show with the waterworks. If they don't go to the cops, you can still catch a lot of shit from her friends and others if she runs off at the mouth about what you supposedly did. This can happen even if you get a definite "yes". One lay is often not worth the trouble.

[This message has been edited by Spiffy McBang (edited 04-11-2004).]

Question one: How do you define rape?

intercourse or sexual acts without consent of both parties



Question two: How do you define physical abuse?

any form of physical contact that is not consented to by both parties (however i think that emotional/psychological abuse can be more damaging in the long term)



Question three: How do you define sexual harrassment?

actions from one party that are construed as offensive (sexually) by another. The line can be murky, what 2 people may consider mucking around, another may consider harrassment. The test is the eye of the beholder test -> if the person says its harassment, then it is, even if others would not react the same way to the same situation.

Question four: How many people do you know who have been raped? About what age were they when it happened?

A couple. Some were young, some were in their 20s

Question five: Whose responsibility do you think it is to keep rape from happening?

it is everybodys responsibility. By saying that its a womans responsibility totally takes the onus of the man (asuming the female is the victim)to watch his own behaviour and take responsibility for his acitons. The sexualisation of women and societal attitudes to sex and women make this hard at times.

Question six: What makes rape different from sex?

rape is not consentual. Sex is.

Question seven: Why do you think rape is such a hot topic on college campuses?

because many of said attitudes about women are finally being challenged. As are the attitudes about male behaviour. Women are more prepared to stand up for themselves and report this kind of thing. Date rape is more talked about and considered a crime and drugs are being used to spike drinks (some of said drugs to have potentially horrible consequences for the victim, such as permanent infertility). And the campus environment of partying/late nights/drugs can make people vulnerable to making bad decisions.

Question eight: What are some things women can do to prevent getting raped?

start to change societys attitudes regarding women and the control of their sexuality. This is the 'tease' factor. Women who dance/dress provocatively are accused of being sluts, once that label has been attached it is more acceptable (not really, but if you are drunk or just stoopid) to force them to have sex with you.

So education is the answer, but until then, simple things like walking in groups, taking a security escort to your car if you are on campus late at night etc... and although self defence is a good idea, unless you are totally uber a man most likely will be able to overpower you. So the best strategy is to avoid being in that situation to begin with. Some women have been able to 'charm' their way out of nasty situations rather than fight.

Question nine: What are some things men can do to avoid getting accused of rape?

simple. Dont rape anyone! well, then they could also talk to the woman they are with and ensure that at all times things are consentual. Basically that is acting like a thinking feeling human being.

just to add: someone asked why is this only for rape against women, and i thought i might address that, because i have a pretty good idea.

see, because of the nature of sex, men can't be raped unless they've consented, basically. which isnt rape. because they have to get hard to be raped, and [i'm assuming, i'm NOT male] that if someone's trying to attack you and hurt you, you're not going to get hard. women, on the other hand, can just be drugged senseless and screwed.

Lets say a man doesn't want to have sex with a woman, and she forces herself on him anyways, if a man can get an erection from his penis brushing up against his pant leg, he can get an erection from an unwanted sexual partner. Obviously men can also be drugged just like women can. You see the complete hypocracy here, its rediculous. It might not happen much, but it could certain happen and probably has.

Men can be anally violated or forced to commit fellatio, among other more deviant acts. I don't care how you put it; a man who has sexual intercourse with a woman (was able to obtain/maintain an erection under duress) is not a victim of rape.

#1 See losergurl's.

#2 Pass. Too broad.

#3 See Spiffy's, and I'll add "any behavior towards an individual that the perpetrator wouldn't apply to anyone else."

#4 One, during college, she was 21, could be defined as "date rape".

#5 Same as any other crime. Only potential victims can minimize their likelihood of being attacked. Who else's responsibility could it possibly be?

#6 Absence of consent.

#7 Same as anything else. People need something to bitch about.

#8 Understand how their behavior and demeanor may be interpreted by others.

#9 Exercise common sense. Other than refraining from casual sex altogether, a man can't anticipate every contingency in how a woman will react to a casual sex encounter.

[This message has been edited by deadlycindy (edited 04-12-2004).]

Question one: How do you define rape?

the crime of forcing another person to submit to sex acts, especially sexual intercourse (nonconsensual decision)

Question two: How do you define physical abuse?

to hurt or injure the body (different from mental abuse)

Question three: How do you define sexual harrassment?

to irritate or torment constantly in reference to sexual acts

Question four: How many people do you know who have been raped? About what age were they when it happened?

3. all were in their late teens

Question five: Whose responsibility do you think it is to keep rape from happening?

society in general



Question six: What makes rape different from sex?

sex is consensual, rape is not

Question seven: Why do you think rape is such a hot topic on college campuses?

rape happens especially on college campuses and so is a very hot topic

Question eight: What are some things women can do to prevent getting raped?

avoid alcohol and/or drugs, avoid being alone especially at night, know self defense, let people know where you are at all times

Question nine: What are some things men can do to avoid getting accused of rape?

same as women

quote:Originally posted by Schraff:

Question one: How do you define rape?

The act of forcing someone to partake in sexual intercourse against their will.*

quote:Question two: How do you define physical abuse?

Any action aimed to hurt another: hitting, kicking, throwing an object, strangling. Physical abuse would also be starving someone, restraining, or making them do physically draining but tedious tasks for the sole purpose of hurting them.

quote:Question three: How do you define sexual harrassment?

Any unwanted sexual advance. Any physical touching is a given. Any outright sexual comment that is offensive or obscene. The public display of any material that is defined as obsene by the Supreme Court.

quote:Question four: How many people do you know who have been raped? About what age were they when it happened?

Three people. Ages: 6, 14, 17

quote:Question five: Whose responsibility do you think it is to keep rape from happening?

Everyone's. Women can have discretion, men can get help and/or work on self control and everyone can watch out for their friends.



quote:Question six: What makes rape different from sex?

Sex is when you partake in sexual activity willingly (no matter the degree of roughness). Rape is when one party doesn't agree to participate in sexual intercourse.

quote:Question seven: Why do you think rape is such a hot topic on college campuses?

College campuses is one spot where alcohol abuse is the most dense. Alcohol invariably mean sex, passed out women, rape.

quote:Question eight: What are some things women can do to prevent getting raped?

Safety first, don't walk alone late at night, don't put yourself in vunerable situations like that. To a lesser degree, don't get so trashed you don't know what's going on. In a prefect world, you should be able to get as fucked up as you want and not have to worry about being robbed or raped but in reality, everyone should be aware that there are people that do take advantage of the vunerable.

The hard part about this question is, not all rape happens at parties or down dark allyways. All the 3 rapes I mentioned above were guys they were close to.

The first was raped by her father.

The second was trashed and raped by her close guy friend.

The third one was perfectly sober, went to her friend's apartment to visit him and he trapped her in.

You can't prevent rape 100% but you can lower the possibility.



quote:Question nine: What are some things men can do to avoid getting accused of rape?

Don't force sex (unless she likes it that way).

Take "no" as no.

As a general rule, don't have sex with women who cannot stand up. Drunk sex kicks ass when your with your significant other but there's a thin line between wanting to have sex and being too fucked up to realize your having sex. Be careful with who you hook up with when scoring drunk chicks, basically.

*Statutory rape, in my opinion, isn't rape. If the female (or male) minor WANTS to have sex with an older person than it's not really rape as society defines the word (ie. violent, forced sex). I think the act of a minor and a legal adult having sex shouldn't be catagorized as "rape". It's too harsh a word.

Just to clarify.

Question one: How do you define rape?

Rape, is the penetration of one of the victim's bodily orifice with the hands, fingers, penis, etc.

OR

the use of one of the victim's body parts in the penetration of one of the perpetrator's bodily orifices,

THEREIN

with the intent to sexually humiliate the victim or to otherwise denegrate or humiliate the victim for the sexual gratification of the perpetrator

OR

where both parties have not given informed, rational, affirmative consent to the acts in question.

Although rape as most commonly committed is unquestionably a crime of violence, it is distinguished from battery or grievous bodily harm in that the sexual aspect touches on the innermost parts of the victim's psychological health and their need to have their sexuality held inviolate.

Question two: How do you define physical abuse?

Abuse implies a long-term infliction of wrong against another person, versus the term 'molestation', for example. Physical abuse, therefore, is the actual physical touching of another person with the intent of controlling their behavior or reshaping their attitudes, often with the intent to harm the person in the process. Sexual abuse can be, but is not necessarily, physical abuse as well.

Question three: How do you define sexual harrassment?

Harrassment implies the use of physical or verbal media to make another person feel vulnerable, demeaned, disgusted, unworthy, threatened, or otherwise uncomfortable. Often it is the only crime or tort by which a person can make another feel bad without resorting to battery or assault. Sexual harrassment uses sexual overtones or sexual aspects in its delivery. It can be, but may not be limited to, crude sexual jokes & conversation, sexual touching, and propositioning.

Question four: How many people do you know who have been raped? About what age were they when it happened?

I heard of one case which might have been rape (since the victim didn't relay the details of the attack) but she would have been perhaps as young as six, whereas her attacker was 8, and someone she knew.

Question five: Whose responsibility do you think it is to keep rape from happening?

Arguably, any crime is the sole responsibility of the perpetrator, but we have to consider that rape is a crime perpetrated largely by (male) individuals against other (female) individuals, usually when both individuals know each other. That and the fact that rapists don't believe they have any responsibility at all to not commit that particular crime.

So the rapist doesn't exist in a vacuum -- crime requires both means, motive, and opportunity. Motive can't be controlled, as it's firmly in the domain of the perpetrator. Keeping rape from happening requires that we (and by that I mean anybody who is a member of civilized society and is capable under the circumstances) have to recognize when the means & opportunity exist, and to remove them. By that I mean to keep people from obtaining rape drugs, deadly weapons, etc. and also from keeping potential victims from harm's way by having things like more cops on the street, campus patrols, always walking in groups, etc.

Question six: What makes rape different from sex?

Sex requires two people capable of giving informed, rational, mutual consent to the sexual act. Any sexual act without mutual or rational or informed consent is, by definition, rape.

Question seven: Why do you think rape is such a hot topic on college campuses?

Probably because college is the first time where young adults feel a genuine sense of self-empowerment to experience the various aspects of life.

Arguably, it's at this point where things can go wrong the most, when people can be lulled into a false sense of security when overcome by their curiosity (i.e. first-timers). Naive victims / clever perpetrators are just as likely to meet in this kind of environment as well-intentioned partners who may be unaware of the bounds of proper conduct. Both situations can give rise to rape.

Question eight: What are some things women (let's just say 'victims') can do to prevent getting raped?

Bearing in mind that victims bear no fault for crimes committed against them, but can act to protect themselves from crimes in the first place, I'd suggest what lies above -- removing the means or opportunity for rapists to attack them.

Means: Make sure that strangers/acquaintances/dates aren't in a position to spike your drinks, and look out for anything that looks like a concealed weapon. If you can't remove the rapists means, cancel their advantage by adopting a similar means yourself. If possible, carry your own weapon (e.g. a knife if nothing else -- and be sure to know how to use it) and anything which might ward off attackers (like a 120dB compressed air horn, on your keychain -- works wonders, I hear).

Opportunities: Never go anywhere alone with someone you don't know or don't COMPLETELY trust. Don't lower your inhibitions around these same groups of people either. Be wary of any lone individual trying to offer you help or do anything which might, even for a moment, catch you off-guard, alone, or unable to protect yourself or call for assistance. Groups of two or more are vastly less likely to be attacked than single individuals.

Scream & scream loud. The old "don't scream or I'll shoot you" line is a bluff -- the perpetrator wants the victim alive and unhurt, and even if that's not the case, the perpetrator probably won't stick around long enough (in most circumstances) to harm the victim if bystanders are within earshot and a good escape requires every possible second available.

Submitting in the hopes of being released relatively unharmed later is foolish -- most criminals who don't mind raping people don't mind killing people either; letting a witness to a felony get away isn't exactly in their best interests.

Question nine: What are some things men can do to avoid getting accused of rape?

First of all -- the answer to the stupid question. DON'T RAPE ANYBODY. See above for the definition.

Secondly, if it's genuinely a false or a misconstrued accusation you're hoping to avoid, don't have sex with anybody whose motives you don't trust. People have been known to cry rape for revenge, for money, for attention, for kicks, etc.

If it's a false conviction you're hoping to avoid, then perhaps try not to leave your semen anywhere except where you're trying to conceive.

EDIT: Touched up a few definitions.

[This message has been edited by Shiantar (edited 04-12-2004).]

[This message has been edited by Shiantar (edited 04-12-2004).]

quote:Originally posted by Purple Phreaxxx:

If the girl is drunk and agrees to or initiates the sex it's not rape.

Wrong. Anybody who's drunk (legally intoxicated according to blood alcohol limits or having drunk enough to be 'impaired', which can be any amount) is INCAPABLE of giving informed, rational, affirmative consent to a sexual act. Ergo, sex while drunk is rape.

quote:Originally posted by aloneandbroken:

If a woman doesn't consent, but makes no attempt to stop the act, she WAS NOT raped.

Most jurisdictions require that consent has to be informed, rational, and affirmative to be sufficient.

Affirmative consent requires that she says 'yes', and anything short of that (even the absence of 'no') doesn't suffice. You can usually argue that a nod or a smile constitutes affirmation but I'd hate to be in a court trying to argue my freedom based on my perception of a smile. Best to be sure.

Furthermore, there are countless cases where a woman has said 'no' but hasn't felt safe enough to fight back. These cases are still rapes.

quote:Originally posted by MrMojoRisin:

*Statutory rape, in my opinion, isn't rape. If the female (or male) minor WANTS to have sex with an older person than it's not really rape as society defines the word (ie. violent, forced sex). I think the act of a minor and a legal adult having sex shouldn't be catagorized as "rape". It's too harsh a word.

I can understand your reasoning, but the law is written so that people incapable of giving consent are included with those who are capable but don't. That includes, inexhaustibly speaking, drunks, the mentally challenged, and youths.

There are jurisdictions, I understand, which take a lighter view of sex-with-a-minor and graduate the punishment based on things like the age difference, etc. I think this is a step in the right direction.

But in the absence of such annotations to the law as written, I'd rather have the very young protected than unprotected.

The only thing I want to comment on is statutory (sp?) rape. That law is in place for the very young. For example, if the girl is sixteen and the man nineteen, than I agree that a stat. rape charge would indeed be bullshit. But say a girl is thirteen and the man nineteen. I've been a thirteen year old girl, and I can tell you honestly that "No" was not a word often used in my vocabulary. In other words, if a man asked me to have sex with him (and he was someone I trusted which is MOST OF THE TIME what happens in stat. rape) then I would very likely have said yes. Not because I wanted to have sex, but because I would want to please that person. Girls that young don't like to have people they trust and care about mad at them. To me, I believe that's why they have that law in place. Sometimes, absolutely, it's a bullshit law. But there are cases where it really does what it's supposed to do. And I fully stand behind that.

quote:Originally posted by deadlycindy:

I don't care how you put it; a man who has sexual intercourse with a woman (was able to obtain/maintain an erection under duress) is not a victim of rape.



Once again, clearly your preconceptions implanted in your brain by our society has blinded you to logic. You believe what they want you to believe, regardless of evidence otherwise. People who believe rape should be a one sided law are women who aim to profit from it. A law that only applies to one sex is principally similar to something you might find in a totalitarian society.

quote:Originally posted by Shiantar:

Wrong. Anybody who's drunk (legally intoxicated according to blood alcohol limits or having drunk enough to be 'impaired', which can be any amount) is INCAPABLE of giving informed, rational, affirmative consent to a sexual act. Ergo, sex while drunk is rape.

This arguement is from a legal basis, but the law is wrong unfortunately. Anyone who has half a brain can see that this is clearly insane. A woman can go into sex, say nothing, or even act encouraging so that the man does not stop, and then claim rape. Even if a woman doesn't want sex, if she says nothing it IS her own fault. By the same logic, I could have a woman go down on me, say nothing, and claim rape after I got off.

quote:Originally posted by Schraff:



Question one: How do you define rape?

Unwillful sex on the victims behalf.

Question two: How do you define physical abuse?

Any type of hitting/throwing/pushing of a woman

Question three: How do you define sexual harrassment?

ANy kind of verbal sexual ralated talk that is unwelcomed by a victim.

Question four: How many people do you know who have been raped? About what age were they when it happened?

none, that i know of.

Question five: Whose responsibility do you think it is to keep rape from happening?

50/50

Question six: What makes rape different from sex?

sex is agreed apon

Question seven: Why do you think rape is such a hot topic on college campuses?

a lot of young women get raped, mainly college aged, and younger

Question eight: What are some things women can do to prevent getting raped?

Don't put yourselves in dangerous situations, always travel with a freind or someone you know well, especially to late night events.

Question nine: What are some things men can do to avoid getting accused of rape?

Don't rape anyone. If you need to ask this question your a rapist.

Thanks in advance, ladies and gentlemen!

quote:Originally posted by Player1:

This arguement is from a legal basis, but the law is wrong unfortunately. Anyone who has half a brain can see that this is clearly insane. A woman can go into sex, say nothing, or even act encouraging so that the man does not stop, and then claim rape. Even if a woman doesn't want sex, if she says nothing it IS her own fault. By the same logic, I could have a woman go down on me, say nothing, and claim rape after I got off.

Nobody ever said the law was perfect, or even right most of the time, but the fact of the matter is that these laws are codified and were, at some point, passed into being by an affirmative vote of the legislative powers at the time.

So long as they're not in danger of being repealed, that means YOU'RE in danger of being prosecuted unless you know what the law says not to do and you DON'T DO IT.

The place to argue whether or not a law is right isn't when you stand accused of breaking it. I can't recall any circumstances where a person successfully argued "it was illegal at the time I did it but since it shouldn't be illegal, I'm off the hook."

Obey the laws as they are written, and if you're really keen to get them struck down you can lobby your representative(s).

You're absolutely right -- a woman can go into sex, say nothing, act encouraging, and then turn right around and accuse the man of rape. That's the legal reality. Doubtful if the guy would ever get convicted, as it's a clear case of her-word-against-his, but have you considered that the everybody looks at even suspected rapists differently for the rest of their lives? Damage done.

Best not to put yourself in that situation, and to know the person you're planning on screwing, along with their motives and intentions. If you don't want to end up arrested, in court, or even in jail, you should consider being careful enough to GET consent before you do anything.

And don't give me that "Even if a woman doesn't want sex, if she says nothing it IS her own fault" bullshit. Rapists can use mouth gags or intimidation to silence that kind of thing. Would it still be her fault then?

As to your final example, yes, you could argue that a woman performed a sexual act on you without your consent. You'd get laughed out of court -- that's how sloped the playing field happens to be -- but you'd be in exactly the legal position to do so. Especially if, for example, you saw, just as she was going down on you, that she has a huge herpes sore on her lip.

I think it would behoove all of us to consider for a moment the following example:

"A man and a woman agree to have sex. After whatever foreplay is sufficient, he's got an erection and she's ready to go. Their mutual fetish is being tied up, so she ties him to the bed and gets ready to have him penetrate her. All of a sudden, it occurs to him that since they're having unprotected sex, he might be at risk for being exposed to AIDS or another STD. He voices his concerns, but she brushes them aside and goes ahead and impales herself on his cock."

The moment he tries to voice his concerns, you'd better believe that in his own mind, the conditions under which he consented aren't being fulfilled and therefore his consent is withdrawn. Yes, he was stupid to get himself in this situation, but it's still a case where she raped him. In this day and age, it's not women who have anything to lose from having nonconsensual sex.

I won't disagree with you about what the law says, Shiantar, but keep in mind this isn't a quiz. There are no right or wrong answers here- it's a survey about what we *think* and how we define different situations, not what the law says. Do you think, for example, that if a drunk girl jumps on a guy and fucks him that it's actually rape, or did you just say that to Phreaxxx because what she said isn't the way the law works?

quote:Originally posted by Player1:

Once again, clearly your preconceptions implanted in your brain by our society has blinded you to logic. You believe what they want you to believe, regardless of evidence otherwise. People who believe rape should be a one sided law are women who aim to profit from it. A law that only applies to one sex is principally similar to something you might find in a totalitarian society.



That's way too many words. Clearly you talk more than you listen.

I didn't say it's not possible for a man to be raped! As I already stated, a man may be raped anally, or be forced to perform fellatio, or other deviant acts.

Sure, a man can get an erection by anything from his pants to a light breeze rubbing up against him. But it's highly unlikely a man will be able to obtain AND maintain an erection under stressful, threatening circumstances. Thus, I believe that if a man has normal sexual intercourse by inserting his penis into another's orifice and ejaculating, it is problematic to call this "rape" because such actions are physiologically so unlikely.

If you wish to refute this point, please be sure you understand what you're refuting before spewing socio-babble.

http://english.pravda.ru/main/2001/04/23/4007.html http://www.menweb.org/throop/rape/how2rapeman.html

quote:Originally posted by Spiffy McBang:

I won't disagree with you about what the law says, Shiantar, but keep in mind this isn't a quiz. There are no right or wrong answers here- it's a survey about what we *think* and how we define different situations, not what the law says. Do you think, for example, that if a drunk girl jumps on a guy and fucks him that it's actually rape, or did you just say that to Phreaxxx because what she said isn't the way the law works?

Well, you're right -- this is a survey and everybody's entitled to an opinion.

As it was, Phreaxxx didn't phrase her opinion as an opinion -- it was stated as fact, and just happened to be lacking in basis as such. To her credit, though, I'm certain that her opinion is probably supported by a sizable portion of the population at large.

But it doesn't matter what my opinion or your opinion or anybody else's opinion is on the definition of crime when it differs from the law, because the law gets applied in practise after everybody's had their say.

Since you asked ... I think that if a drunk girl jumps a perfectly sober guy, then you've got a) two very stupid people, as well as b) one criminal. The law follows common sense (for the most part) and it does a good job of illustrating that, in this case, a morally upright man shouldn't take advantage of a woman when she's not in her right mind because it violates the sancitity of her person when she's unable to rationalize or resist her way out of it.

As for this not being a quiz -- let's consider for a moment that we have impressionable 13-year-olds perusing our forums here. You guys try to moderate things in Bad Ideas by keeping everything hypothetical and by occasionally mentioning what can happen when laws are broken. I'd suggest that this thread in particular is no different, because if we get lots of little kiddies departing with the message that drunk sex is okay or even legal, we get the same result -- people get hurt. What good is all this debate when it skirts the real issue here -- opinions aside, the law is the law until it gets changed.

In case you're wondering why I even give a damn, it just so happens that, as an engineer, I am sworn to uphold the public welfare and specifically instructed to point out flaws in thinking and the consequences which can result when those flaws aren't corrected.

1. any sexual act against an unwilling participant

2. any physical harm that was intended

3. anything said about the body of a person in a way they do not aprove

4. none

5. the victim

6. rape is forced and one of the people are unwilling to participate

7. college chicks are hot

8. carry weapon

9. dont rape/stalk or be around the person at the time

Shi- I'm pretty certain what she said sounded like she was stating a fact because that's how she sees it, period. That's what was requested, that's what was given.

It's fine that you're intent on pointing out flaws in thinking, regardless of why- I do it too. I also am fully aware that a lot of impressionable people read these forums. But, despite my lack of experience with parties and the atmospheres around them, I'm willing to bet that in a large majority of instances where some drunk girl leads a guy off to a bedroom and shags him, he's downed a couple himself. The strict letter of the law in some places may define that as rape, and urging caution is never a bad thing, but the idea that a guy who lets a girl have her way with him is somehow morally deprived or lacking, especially when they're both at least buzzing, is hard to swallow.

The law does follow common sense most of the time, but that seems to get jettisoned on many instances involving sex. This is no different. You'd be hard-pressed to find a sensible court which convicts a guy of rape because he and some girl got drunk, she threw him down and fucked him, all the evidence makes that clear, but the law says it only takes her inebriation to make that sex a criminal act on his part.

I'm not trying to encourage any of this, because it generally causes more problems than it solves, but the reality is that lots of people get all kinds of wasted and fuck each other silly. It would be a disservice to drive this point of what the law says home when, in all likelihood, what it's going to lead to is some kid freaking out while a girl is ripping his clothes off when instead he should be trying to enjoy himself.

Maybe you've never experienced it, but it's an incredibly difficult thing to push a girl away when she's crawling all over you unless she's utterly wasted and you know perfectly well she wouldn't be doing it otherwise. It's no longer a moral issue, it's one of self-control, and very few people have that much. No point in making them freak out the next day about being brought up on rape charges in addition to all the other bad shit that can happen with random sex.

quote:(...)I'm willing to bet that in a large majority of instances where some drunk girl leads a guy off to a bedroom and shags him, he's downed a couple himself. (...)

Oh, that. Where both parties are sufficiently intoxicated to not know what they're doing, it's not a crime because neither of the parties can form criminal intent or realize that they're party to the commission of (either) crime. The law regards that in the same way society does: an unfortunate lapse of judgement on the part of both people, but not criminal.

quote:(...)the idea that a guy who lets a girl have her way with him is somehow morally deprived or lacking, especially when they're both at least buzzing, is hard to swallow.

A term often used in civil law, especially where responsibility is concerned, is "duty of care." I have, for example, a duty of care to ensure that the things I design and construct aren't prone to electrocuting people. The average citizen has a duty of care to ensure that his/her pets aren't allowed off-leash in public, to ensure that chemicals and medicines are kept out of reach of young children when appropriate, and so forth. In the event that a person disregards their duties of care, they can be held responsible for whatever happens as a result.

When we're talking about criminal law, the 'duty of care' principle applies more often to inaction rather than action (and this is because crime is normally the outright commission of a wrongdoing rather than the classic definition of a tort, which is the failure to commit a right-doing where appropriate) and yes, there are many instances where inaction on the part of a reasonably-minded person is criminal.

As hard as it might be to swallow, the law doesn't take a bright view of a bystander allowing a drowing person to perish, and nor does it apparently take a bright view of a man (with enough of his faculties intact) sitting absolutely still and silent while some woman strips naked and gives him a thorough screwing after downing seven martinis. Each situation has consequences where inaction can lead to bodily harm of different sorts.

quote:You'd be hard-pressed to find a sensible court which convicts a guy of rape because (...)

Absolutely. It rarely happens. But then again if that same drunk woman wants to call him a rapist when she begins to brood over their mutual mistake, she's got every legal right to say so. He'd never get hauled into court as a criminal, but he'd also never be able to sue for defamation. Women can be just as crafty and vindictive as men. My point is that there are other consequences beyond the obvious ones.

Never mind the fact that there's been an awful lot of complaining about 'activist judges' these days. Popular opinion aside, it would only take one of them to convict an unfortunate young man despite the objections of his peers (and we do occasionally get trial-by-judge in some jurisdictions).

quote: (...)what it's going to lead to is some kid freaking out while a girl is ripping his clothes off when instead he should be trying to enjoy himself.

I'm not saying anybody should freak out (and you raise a valid point here: men have a lot more to fear than women when it comes to rape statutes; equal protection seems to go out the window) but there's something to be said for the empowerment of knowledge here. Knowing the law, at least, would keep a guy from getting into the obviously bad situations, and perhaps it would prompt him to ask the appropriate questions and say the appropriate things in a questionable situation which would ensure that he didn't have to worry about legal consequences. We have condoms to protect us from (some) STDs -- why not use the law as a prophylactic as well?

Anyway, I've said my piece and I can't think of anything to add to it. Apologies all around if I've offended anybody here, but I think we're all perhaps a little better off if we raise these kinds of issues from time to time.

[This message has been edited by Shiantar (edited 04-14-2004).]

Question one: How do you define rape?

Forcing sexual intercourse on one who has not consented.

Question two: How do you define physical abuse?

Any kind of harm or injury inflicted on one...physicaly.

Question three: How do you define sexual harrassment?

Making sexual gestures or touching one in a sexual way, persistently.

Question four: How many people do you know who have been raped? About what age were they when it happened?

One, female, aged nineteen.

Question five: Whose responsibility do you think it is to keep rape from happening?

You can't keep it from happening.

Question six: What makes rape different from sex?

See question one.

Question seven: Why do you think rape is such a hot topic on college campuses?

Given the age of students, sex is on mind a lot of the time. People also need to be educated on such matters.

Question eight: What are some things women can do to prevent getting raped?

Rape alarm. Loud scream. Not walking alone in secluded areas or at night.

Question nine: What are some things men can do to avoid getting accused of rape?

Nothing. An accusation can come from anywhere at any time, with any motive in mind.

Your welcome.

I am probably the only guy EVER to get raped. You see, men get hard-ons from rubbing it against his pantleg. I was stoned off my ass and started drinking. Then this chick who i completly HATED but was a total slut slipped me some E. Now I am drunk, stoned, and tweaking on Ecstasy. So i basicly pass out. And when i wake up, her horny ass is on top of my cock doing pushups. If that is not rape i dont know what is. I brought it to court. And they said it was my fault. I say FUCK YOU HYPOCRITICAL COMMIES!

Question one: How do you define rape? The crime of forcing another person to submit to sex acts, especially sexual intercourse

Question two: How do you define physical abuse?Someone hitting someone...simple

Question three: How do you define sexual harrassment?walking past a girl and lifting her skirt up..yeh..i do that all the time at clubs

Question four: How many people do you know who have been raped? About what age were they when it happened?0

Question five: Whose responsibility do you think it is to keep rape from happening?To have you numbchuks

Question six: What makes rape different from sex?Rape is inflicted without the recipients consent..sex is inflicted without harrasment/beating the fuk out of some1

Question seven: Why do you think rape is such a hot topic on college campuses?Basically during the time of adolescent people want to explore sex..so its a hot topic because its dangerous and shit

Question eight: What are some things women can do to prevent getting raped?martial arts and facial hair to scare the guys off

Question nine: What are some things men can do to avoid getting accused of rape?Kill the women/man after

Thanks in advance, ladies and gentlemen!

quote:Originally posted by Spiffy McBang:

Question one: How do you define rape?

Forcing someone into sexual acts by violence or threat of violence. Certain types of coercion would also apply, but it's a very gray area, dependant on situational specifics more than anything.

Question two: How do you define physical abuse?

Causing physical harm to another person. Note that some people like it. If the question implies "bad" abuse, then it's abuse the recipient doesn't like. Simple.

Question three: How do you define sexual harrassment?

*Purposely* making lewd comments or actions towards someone to make them feel uncomfortable, knowing that it will make them feel uncomfortable but not caring, or doing something that has a reasonable chance of offending someone if you don't know their sense of humor or tolerance for such. By comparison, it is *not* saying or doing something while honestly believing others listening or involved won't be bothered.

Question four: How many people do you know who have been raped? About what age were they when it happened?

Several; four or five come to mind right away, but thinking back, it's probably more. One happened at age ten (stepfather), but I believe most were teens. I'm not aware of the details for the majority, as all the girls I know who have been raped had it happen before I met them.

Question five: Whose responsibility do you think it is to keep rape from happening?

Everyone's, as a general rule. Circumstances will dictate precisely who could have affected a situation. Guys need to learn that girls do have the right to tease and then say no, and girls need to learn that some guys aren't going to deal well if they go too far before trying to stop things.

This, of course, refers to relative gray areas like drunken sex at parties and such; there are plenty of more overt cases where the guy is simply a neanderthalic jackass, and is failing his responsibility of not being a neanderthalic jackass.

Question six: What makes rape different from sex?

Both parties want sex.

Question seven: Why do you think rape is such a hot topic on college campuses?

The situations which lead to rape- drunk people, large gatherings, plenty of people on both sides of the gender fence not knowing what the fuck they're doing or what they want, drunk people- are much more prevalent on college campuses and in the student areas of surrounding communities than in the rest of the world.

Question eight: What are some things women can do to prevent getting raped?

-Realize the law will only protect you after you've been raped, and it's likely a guy about to rape you isn't thinking about that at the moment. Tease him on the dance floor if you will, but don't go off with him alone or to a place with a few people who won't do shit for you unless you're prepared to fuck him willingly.

-Learn self-defense. Not some bullshit women's course at the local high school or community center, some real martial arts that will allow you to disable someone and get the hell out of dodge, if not fuck him up completely. I know a female shotokan brown belt who can pull some devastating shit. She's not special, anyone with the desire can learn it too.

-Don't get plastered. 'Nuff said. Drink only as much as you can while still being able to make conscious decisions. (Whether or not you're happy with those decisions later is another story.)

-If you just have to get wasted, bring plenty of friends who will get you out of a bad situation should one occur.

-You have a brain. Use it.

Question nine: What are some things men can do to avoid getting accused of rape?

-Don't do it.

-Know your partners as best you can, and avoid the fuckups.

-If you don't know her, but she appears to be saddled with dubious judgment and/or a fickle nature, walk away. It may be hard, especially if you are, but remember that the courts are not completely in tune with reality yet. Girls still have the advantage in rape cases, especially if they can put on a good show with the waterworks. If they don't go to the cops, you can still catch a lot of shit from her friends and others if she runs off at the mouth about what you supposedly did. This can happen even if you get a definite "yes". One lay is often not worth the trouble.

[This message has been edited by Spiffy McBang (edited 04-11-2004).]

I completely agree with the above, except concerning question 4: I know three women who have been raped. Two of them have been raped more than once.

But, like Spiffy McBang said in answer to question one, most aspects of these kinds of topics "dependant on situational specifics more than anything."

quote:Originally posted by deadlycindy:



That's way too many words. Clearly you talk more than you listen.

I didn't say it's not possible for a man to be raped! As I already stated, a man may be raped anally, or be forced to perform fellatio, or other deviant acts.

Sure, a man can get an erection by anything from his pants to a light breeze rubbing up against him. But it's highly unlikely a man will be able to obtain AND maintain an erection under stressful, threatening circumstances. Thus, I believe that if a man has normal sexual intercourse by inserting his penis into another's orifice and ejaculating, it is problematic to call this "rape" because such actions are physiologically so unlikely.

If you wish to refute this point, please be sure you understand what you're refuting before spewing socio-babble.

Once again, you're stating that a man can only be raped by another man, and ignoring what I have stated: that a man can be raped by a woman. Even if a man doesnt ejaculate, it would still clearly be consittered rape. If a woman is being raped and doesn't have an orgasm, is it still rape since she didn't have an orgasm? Clearly it is. Also, as you are not a man, I assume you cannot comment on the difficulty of maintaining an erection.

quote:Originally posted by Shiantar:

I'm not saying anybody should freak out (and you raise a valid point here: men have a lot more to fear than women when it comes to rape statutes; equal protection seems to go out the window) but there's something to be said for the empowerment of knowledge here. Knowing the law, at least, would keep a guy from getting into the obviously bad situations, and perhaps it would prompt him to ask the appropriate questions and say the appropriate things in a questionable situation which would ensure that he didn't have to worry about legal consequences. We have condoms to protect us from (some) STDs -- why not use the law as a prophylactic as well?

Anyway, I've said my piece and I can't think of anything to add to it. Apologies all around if I've offended anybody here, but I think we're all perhaps a little better off if we raise these kinds of issues from time to time.

(edited 04-14-2004).]

Men are having second thoughts about sex, because of many of these frivilous charges. This is part of the ongoing feminization of America by the largely liberal/feminist influenced society we live in, as men are increasinly being forced to act against their own nature to survive. You accusing me of spewing "socio-babble" is an emotional appeal, with no basis of evidence, and no purpose other than to discredit me simply because you are in denial of the truth.

quote:Originally posted by Player1:

men are increasinly being forced to act against their own nature to survive.

You mean because we have to think with our heads instead of our dicks? That's really not a bad thing, given that there are a shitload of guys who could stand to learn that skill. The aim is not bad, just some of the methods and many of the attitudes towards men accused of rape or sexual misconduct.

quote:Originally posted by Player1:

Once again, you're stating that a man can only be raped by another man, and ignoring what I have stated: that a man can be raped by a woman.

I never said a man could only be raped by a man. A man can have his orifices penetrated by objects wielded by a woman. You're making all kinds of assumptions.

I don't need to be a man to understand how erections work. I've handled more penises than you ever will.

1.Rape: Forced, unwanted sexual intercourse.

2.Physical abuse: unwanted, abusive, physical contact.

3.Any form of unwanted, sexual acts.

4.Roughly, about 10-15. All of these occured at a very young age.

5.It is rapists responsibility to keep rape from happening. No one else should have to be responsible for another's actions.

6.Rape is sex. But it is forced sex.

7.Rape is talked about so much on college campus so much because many people are getting drunk and doing shit they will regret when their sober. So they blame it on the other person involved. Ovsiously this will lead to further discussion of rape.

(I'm just guessing on this one, having never been to college.)

8. Women can prevent rape by being prepared to defend themselves.

9. There really is no solution for men to stop being accused of rape. Women will always talk shit to get out of being called a slut.