I just went to the doctor today and talked to my doctor about getting fixed (having my tubes tied). She looked at me like I was crazy and asked me how old I am.

But, I'm in my early twenties, which is when a lot of women get knocked up, and I've been wanted to do this for years - since I was eightteen. So, it's not like I haven't thought about it.

She said she would refer me to a specialist who would talk to me about it more in depth, but that I should really think about it more.

I know that it's an expensive proceedure and that there are certain proceedures that are easier to reverse than others, but that's just about all I know about it.

Does everyone think I'm making a big mistake or is it just everyone I'm talking to?

Cheers,

Lost

not having little bastards is always a good thing.

Mistake. You're going to want kids. It's in human psyche.

Just take the pill until then.

Of all the people here at totse, you are one of the few that would not bother me if you started breeding. But do what you want.

I think you should think about it more.

You don't want children? You don't want a family?

So what? Are you never going to get married? If you do get married, what if your husband wants children. What if you fall madly in love but the guy won't marry you cause he wants children and a family.

You should be happy that you're able to produce, some women aren't and they wish that they were as luck as you.

God gave you this gift so that you could understand what it's like to be him. So that you could create life. The ultimate experience. A reminder of the love between a man and woman.

quote:Originally posted by Aunt Jemima:

I think you should think about it more.

You don't want children? You don't want a family?

So what? Are you never going to get married? If you do get married, what if your husband wants children. What if you fall madly in love but the guy won't marry you cause he wants children and a family.

You should be happy that you're able to produce, some women aren't and they wish that they were as luck as you.

God gave you this gift so that you could understand what it's like to be him. So that you could create life. The ultimate experience. A reminder of the love between a man and woman.

"I think you should think about it more.

You don't want children? You don't want a family?"

- I don't want children and I have a family. And the way I see it, your children won't've picked you, they probably wont like you, in all probability they hate you. So, I'll sign my own papers in the old folks home.

"So what? Are you never going to get married?"

- I don't believe in marriage. I think it's an outdated concept created by an outdated religious establishment to keep people inline and I'm devoting my life to the desecration of this institution. So far I've been married and divorced three times, I plan on getting married and divorced at least once a year until I die.

So. No. I don't plan on ever marrying permanently.

"If you do get married, what if your husband wants children."

- Well, if I do fall in love again (which I don't think is very likely) and it was pretty obvious that we were going to be together for the rest of our lives and he/she really wanted children, and I was stable emotionally, and financially I could possibily be open to adoption. Or, if I'm with another woman, perhaps she could carry the baby.

"What if you fall madly in love but the guy won't marry you cause he wants children and a family."

- Then he probably didn't love me very much to begin with.

I mean, what if I were naturally barren or something? What would he just leave me? What if he was impotent? Is that grounds to leave someone?

"You should be happy that you're able to produce, some women aren't and they wish that they were as luck as you."

- The world is overpopulated enough and my genes aren't holy or anything. I'm no specimen of perfection and there isn't a person in my family who isn't stupid, or horribly obese, or insane, or bald, or diabetic, etc...

Let someone who really wants kids pass on their golden genes. As for mine, the world thanks me for not reproducing.

Also, thank you Easy Going.

I'd also like to make the statement, that one of the more troubling realizations I've had recently, that reminded me to post this was last night I was talking to my brother and I made some statement about this snotty child we'd seen earlier. I said something like

"Children like that should be beat." I was mostly joking, but he said

"Some mother you're going to be."

As if I'm a mother in waiting or something.

And I realized all women are born mothers in waiting. Men aren't born fathers in waiting. Men are born astronauts, politicians, baseball players in waiting. But, women are simply born to be mothers.

I'd just like to erase that stigma from my demeanor.

I am not a mother in waiting, and getting my tubes tied would be a way of saying

"I am no longer a mother in waiting on any level. My worth is now measured by my accomplishments and not for my baby making potential."

Cheers,

Lost

I was going to say something to the effect of, you might want to wait, if only because your early twenties still leaves a good 15-20 years for you to have a change of heart, until I got to the end of that last post. That's an extremely interesting way of looking at it.

One thing, though. It's not like men aren't born fathers-in-waiting; it's simply that the patriarchal nature of damn near every major world civilization from the beginning of man until now pushed men to be the movers and shakers, so there's always been more expected of them. That doesn't mean people don't think or say shit like, "Geez, some father you're gonna be."

Things are evening out between the sexes, so why are you letting the old-school mentality of others help motivate you to take what is, in reality, a rather drastic action? I don't blame you one bit for not wanting to be seen as nothing more than a girl doing whatever until it's time for motherhood, but using that as a significant reason for getting your tubes tied, even if it's not *the* reason, seems like the cheap way out.

You might not care about that, but if the fact you'll have this stigma of "mother-in-waiting" bothers you, I'd wager you won't find it any better going this route. Your comparison is you being seen only as a baby-maker to you only being seen in light of your accomplishments; the world is becoming a place where your ability to have kids is not something many people immediately view as a symbol of your worth, at least compared to the relatively recent past. What you do in life will be recognized whether you can have children or not, if not where you are now, then somewhere else in the world more accepting. There are plenty of places like that.

Of course, if you want to get your tubes tied so you can go on and accomplish shit without having to worry about becoming laden with child, and that alone is enough reason to go ahead with the procedure, cool. You would probably be well-served to get the most easily-reversible process done, though. You don't know how you're going to view the subject in the future.

[This message has been edited by Spiffy McBang (edited 03-23-2004).]

Good point, Spiffy. You're right.

But, really, there's two major reasons I want to do it:

I had an abortion three years ago and it was one of the most traumatizing, painfull, and fucked up things I've ever had to do. Not that I don't believe in the right to choose, it's just that, I suppose it wasn't for me. Or, more, I was forced into it and it was very scary and I was very alone.

Anyways, ever since then I've become overwhelmingly paranoid about becoming pregnant. It's one of the major reasons I haven't had a relationship in the last three years. Every time I have sex I freak out thinking I'm knocked up.

I've laid major trips on totally innocent guys because of this.

And I literally cannot live with the paranoia and the guilt anymore. I never wanted children, but now with the guilt I feel like I don't even have the right to have children.

So, I suppose it all boils down to guilt and paranoia, and that I never really wanted to have children to begin with.

Cheers,

Lost

your an immature deragned littl girl.

Yeah that maks sense your children dont pick u and probablly hate u.

I HAVE NVER HEARD SUCH CRAP.

Everysingle one of your bullshit excuses for not having kids is absolutely pathetic and incorrect.

I can understand some people genuinly dont want kids. But the give educated real reasons as to why not.

Not th childsish crap u dribbled.

I am a proud father and to prove a point am not th biological father. My lil girl doenst know any different and sees me as her dad and loves me to pieces as i love her.

So how can thy not choose u and not like u when MINE CHOOSE ME AND LOVES ME.

U need to grow into an adult befor u mak these decisions that will effect u when u have finally grown up.

Some people are odd like real od.

How old are u again high school dod u say? I forget but u must be 14 max.

i dont bleive in marriage. hahah

some people are so WEAK thy need to seperate thmselves from society in forming a bullshit opinion on our history.

Maybe marriage is socities norm.

But marriage comes after love and havent u ever been in love.

Your are basically rewritting human civiliziation in your own narrow minded language.

quote:Originally posted by LostCause:



- I don't believe in marriage. I think it's an outdated concept created by an outdated religious establishment to keep people inline and I'm devoting my life to the desecration of this institution. So far I've been married and divorced three times, I plan on getting married and divorced at least once a year until I die.



Can I be one of those guys you marry then divorce?

All that stuff you said about not having kids makes perfect sense. Get fixed, but just be sure not to change your mind afterwards.

ow....that post actually hurt my head to read. please die luvbuds the world will be a bit of a better place to live in. I'll also be one to get the male version of this operation in a year when i turn 18. I utterly loathe children and while i believe love and maybe even marriage are possibilities, i could never want children.

[This message has been edited by Todesgehen (edited 03-23-2004).]

quote:Originally posted by a123x:

Can I be one of those guys you marry then divorce?



Sure.

Todesgehen, I am so happy to hear you said that. Because I think it's really fucked up that all the sexual responsibility gets put on the woman. I mean, think about it, we explore outer space by we can't figure out a pill for men? We can, we just don't, because men are dominating the medical industry and men don't want to take a pill. So, there's a million chemicals for women to take to be responsible, but all men can do is wear a bag on their cocks.

Anyways, I think that's a really mature and responsible outlook on it.

*muah*

Cheers,

Lost

quote:Originally posted by LostCause:

Sure.

Todesgehen, I am so happy to hear you said that. Because I think it's really fucked up that all the sexual responsibility gets put on the woman. I mean, think about it, we explore outer space by we can't figure out a pill for men? We can, we just don't, because men are dominating the medical industry and men don't want to take a pill. So, there's a million chemicals for women to take to be responsible, but all men can do is wear a bag on their cocks.

Anyways, I think that's a really mature and responsible outlook on it.

*muah*

Cheers,

Lost

You've made me the happiest loser on totse.

I thought that in recent times they did develop a shot to temporarily sterilize men. But yeah, there are a lot more things for women.

quote:Originally posted by LostCause:

Sure.

Todesgehen, I am so happy to hear you said that. Because I think it's really fucked up that all the sexual responsibility gets put on the woman. I mean, think about it, we explore outer space by we can't figure out a pill for men? We can, we just don't, because men are dominating the medical industry and men don't want to take a pill. So, there's a million chemicals for women to take to be responsible, but all men can do is wear a bag on their cocks.

Anyways, I think that's a really mature and responsible outlook on it.

*muah*

Cheers,

Lost

put the fucking pipe down. men dont want to take a pill? id be the first motherfucker in line to get a pill. fuck trusting some cunt and fuck screwing in a plastic bag. i highly doubt im in the minority when it comes to guys who are anti-condom and anti-bastard kids.

Why take the pill, though, when you can get the woman to take the pill?

Then, not only do you not have to injest harmfull chemicals everyday, but if something goes wrong, you can blame the woman for not being responsible enough.

That's how the world works.

I accept it.

Your turn.

Cheers,

Lost

Have you considered Depo-Provera, the BC shot? It lasts 11-13 weeks. I must be out of

touch, last I heard it was an implant.

Maybe you wouldn't even get many side effects. Docs generally don't like to cut women who've not had kids. You might have to go to a Vet, they're used to cuttin' the young.

Maybe you could just become one of those very

special women, who insist on the back door. But if you do; expect even more "dogs" at yer door.

quote:Originally posted by LostCause:

Why take the pill, though, when you can get the woman to take the pill?

Then, not only do you not have to injest harmfull chemicals everyday, but if something goes wrong, you can blame the woman for not being responsible enough.

That's how the world works.

I accept it.

Your turn.

Cheers,

Lost

what part of not having to trust a cunt didnt you understand? you think id rather let some retard control the fate of my wallet when i could do it myself? thats why i buy and wear my own condoms, it doesnt let some dipshit woman decide whether or not i pay child support.

You get your tubes tied... they can get untied if you change your mind later, personal choice, relatively inexpensive doing or un-doing. Morals involved? Sure... but who says my morals or societies or Guswut's are right for you? Your choice... fuck everyone else.

I have to strongly agree with you on the concept of marriage... worthless paperwork dictated by the religious to keep the herds in check. Religious people are generally peace-loving and good-willed... but then you've got religious people like Osama bin Laden and that throws that concept down the toilet. If you love someone, a piece of paper isn't gonna make it any stronger. In a free society you wouldn't expect to have to pay for a god damn license to get married anyway... hence, fuck religion and their mandates along with society and their laws.

Live and let live.

As for the poster that said he'd take a pill to keep 'her' from getting pregnant rather than rely on her, birth control pills, diaphragms or condoms... I whole-heartedly agree... I would take them and unburden the female population from worrying about getting pregnant if I could get them to cut loose with SOME PUSSY. Hrmmmm...

It's a very short life we live relative to what is measured as "time". Live like there's not going to be a 'next time around' and be kind to your fellow beings and imagine what the world would be like if everyone lived that way.

Good topic Lost.... good luck.

-Extant

You could take the surgery to many different levels, as you mentioned. You can go so far as to have an elective hysterectomy, which is fully irreversable, or you can just have your tubes tied, which is usually reversible (although expensive).

Truthfully, you should weigh out the pros and cons to you.

If your main problem is the usage of other forms of protection, you should probably rethink. As much of a hassle reducer as not being able to get preggers would be, you still can get std's, so unprotected one night stands are still a no go. If you are solely in a monogomus relationship and the contaceptives are a problem to you, the surgery would relieve that stress, but I would seriously consider how you do with Depo first. The surgery is a big step to take.

If it is more of an expression thing (i can't think of a better way to say this...you know, your doing it to solidify your belief of a sort), I would not tell you you are wrong at all. I totally understand where you are coming from if that is the reason.

Talking to a specialist who can give you a lot more insight than anyone online will be able too. They know the costs. They can tell you the health risks and emotional risks. The emotional risk is a big thing to consider. A lot of women end up with depression post-hysterectomy for a feeling of loss of femininity, even if the procedure was elective. Do you think you are stable enough in your decision to undergo this? If i were you, i would consider going to a counselor, not because you are crazy/wrong etc. , but just to make sure you are stable enough to handle this.

One thing you may want to consider is freezing some eggs. I know that seems against your beliefs now, but if the operation you choose has a chance of being irreversible and you ever change your mind with respect to having children of your own blood, the opportunity would be available. No surgery is gaurunteed reversable, and no decision you make in your twenties is going to be for sure the same in 10 years.

It sounds like your in a lot of conflict right now. I hope you figure things out soon!

Statistically, getting Depo Provera shots are almost as effective as getting your tubes tied. Tubal ligation has a 1 in 1000 failure rate; depo-provera has a 3 in 1000 failure rate.

HI, LostCause:

There are so many good reasons to have this procedure done (the paranoia and fear of further guilt which you mentioned, and the the total freedom for you to to self-develop and achieve in alternative, "non-mommy" ways -- without the fear of pregnancy -- are reasons enough, in my opinion).

The "boogie-boo" that keeps coming up, however, is that you might change your mind later. I suggest you talk to a medical specialist....I think you'll find that reversal later is very do-able, and promising.

THEN DO WHAT FEELS RIGHT FOR YOU!! Love, Venus.

You've said previous, that with partners you are orgasmically challenged. Does this apply when you are partnering with yourself?

You aren't just way too horny to think right,

are you? You can handle yerself on the street, but can you handle yerself at home alone?

Are you woman enough, to be the strong

passionate aggressor, in your relationship with yerself? When you've got yerself alone, do you make sweet moves on yerself? Are you willing to hit on yerself & touch your body, just the way you like it? Will you follow yer

sweet self from room to room, looking for yer

opportunity?

Do you make suggestive comments to yerself, till you give yerself looks in the mirror, that make you wonder if you've gone too far? Do you make little suggestions that make you blush? Don't you know? You're gonna spank the monkey.

Do you have a good hand-held shower head?

quote:Originally posted by Aunt Jemima:

I think you should think about it more.

You don't want children? You don't want a family?

So what? Are you never going to get married? If you do get married, what if your husband wants children. What if you fall madly in love but the guy won't marry you cause he wants children and a family.

You should be happy that you're able to produce, some women aren't and they wish that they were as luck as you.

God gave you this gift so that you could understand what it's like to be him. So that you could create life. The ultimate experience. A reminder of the love between a man and woman.

amen.for once aunty i agree totally

I have to agree with you. Having a child (intentionally) is selfish. I doubt I'm the only one that thinks their parents had children for their own satisfaction/pleasure watever, and most times I wish my daddy (ha) had kept it in his trowsers or spat me over my mommas tits, because I understand that life on earth is the lowest of the low, I'm not depressed either, it just is. The child didn't ask to be born, and when it grows old it will understand how fucked up the world/people is/are and then it's too late.

Another suicide perhaps..?? Yep, probably.

I don't know if I want kids but I know what I go through occasionally and it's not nice, I wouldn't want to inflict that onto something that has no say in the matter.

Personally, I'd rather spend my money on nice cars, houses, and enjoy the best things instead of being stressed and having to go without. Fcuk children, they also piss me off so thats another reason not to have any.

If you've thought it through to your satisfaction (sounds like it) and don't feel that there is any chance you will ever regret it, then go for it. Doesn't matter what anyone else thinks really.

I've been considering it lately too. Guys don't want chicks with baggage so I've already ruined myself and my chances of landing a normal suburban life... why the hell not then, I figure.

[This message has been edited by Sarcophagus (edited 03-23-2004).]

quote:Originally posted by Sarcophagus:

...I've already ruined myself and my chances of landing a normal suburban life... why the hell not then, I figure.



Bullshit.

quote:Originally posted by deadlycindy:

Bullshit.



x2

quote:Originally posted by mrman383:

not having little bastards is always a good thing.

Some people are strong enough to handle the responsibility and some have no excuse to ever even think about having kids... If you don't think you want the responsibility of raising a child and the love and brains to raise it correctly and the want and desire to raise a little piece of yourself and to be a mother for the rest of your life... then WTF are you waiting for? For gawds sake cut, tie & cauterize the mother fuckin tubes. Better yet maybe a full hysto. so that you can get rid of some of that estrogen, grow some facial hair and get rid of some of that stima of being a woman. (ANd please do not go an adopt a child and bring it into your unhappy little world)



[This message has been edited by HatesMorons (edited 03-25-2004).]

It looks like they going to have a 100% effective injectable contraceptive for males on the market in a few years.

Having kids can be too time consuming but it is also a very phatt experience. Having them move inside your stomach and breast feeding them. They get awards at school and then later you can visit them when they are out on their own and it is so trippy because then the roles reverse and yet you feel like your still a teenager yourself. I recommend it but wait until you're ready.

quote:Originally posted by LostCause:

"I think you should think about it more.

You don't want children? You don't want a family?"

- I don't want children and I have a family. And the way I see it, your children won't've picked you, they probably wont like you, in all probability they hate you. So, I'll sign my own papers in the old folks home.

"So what? Are you never going to get married?"

- I don't believe in marriage. I think it's an outdated concept created by an outdated religious establishment to keep people inline and I'm devoting my life to the desecration of this institution. So far I've been married and divorced three times, I plan on getting married and divorced at least once a year until I die.

So. No. I don't plan on ever marrying permanently.

"If you do get married, what if your husband wants children."

- Well, if I do fall in love again (which I don't think is very likely) and it was pretty obvious that we were going to be together for the rest of our lives and he/she really wanted children, and I was stable emotionally, and financially I could possibily be open to adoption. Or, if I'm with another woman, perhaps she could carry the baby.

"What if you fall madly in love but the guy won't marry you cause he wants children and a family."

- Then he probably didn't love me very much to begin with.

I mean, what if I were naturally barren or something? What would he just leave me? What if he was impotent? Is that grounds to leave someone?

"You should be happy that you're able to produce, some women aren't and they wish that they were as luck as you."

- The world is overpopulated enough and my genes aren't holy or anything. I'm no specimen of perfection and there isn't a person in my family who isn't stupid, or horribly obese, or insane, or bald, or diabetic, etc...

Let someone who really wants kids pass on their golden genes. As for mine, the world thanks me for not reproducing.

Also, thank you Easy Going.

I'd also like to make the statement, that one of the more troubling realizations I've had recently, that reminded me to post this was last night I was talking to my brother and I made some statement about this snotty child we'd seen earlier. I said something like

"Children like that should be beat." I was mostly joking, but he said

"Some mother you're going to be."

As if I'm a mother in waiting or something.

And I realized all women are born mothers in waiting. Men aren't born fathers in waiting. Men are born astronauts, politicians, baseball players in waiting. But, women are simply born to be mothers.

I'd just like to erase that stigma from my demeanor.

I am not a mother in waiting, and getting my tubes tied would be a way of saying

"I am no longer a mother in waiting on any level. My worth is now measured by my accomplishments and not for my baby making potential."

Cheers,

Lost

OH OH OH MARRY ME MARRY ME!!!!! damn there need to be more girls like you.

quote:Originally posted by Sarcophagus:

If you've thought it through to your satisfaction (sounds like it) and don't feel that there is any chance you will ever regret it, then go for it. Doesn't matter what anyone else thinks really.

I've been considering it lately too. Guys don't want chicks with baggage so I've already ruined myself and my chances of landing a normal suburban life... why the hell not then, I figure.

[This message has been edited by Sarcophagus (edited 03-23-2004).]

I love kids, i thought about seriously dating this girl who had a kid last november. I met her once and she was a total bitch though. suburbia sucks I have livd here for 18 years and its not worth it.

They are all fucking leets, and they are all closed minded people. What happened to your bf?

Im sorry you feel that way.

I whole heartedly agree. If you dont want kids than dont burden youself wih them finacly/emotionaly etc.. Why Contribute in the earths overpopulation.

Also religious marriage concepts or totally archaic and indoctrinated concrete bindings.

However though get the most easily reversed in case your stance fluncuates though unlikely it is a rare occurence