I've done a lot of complaining here. I've brought all of my problems to you, poured out my heart. I haven't brought very many positives, probably because I only began posting frequently at a low-point in life.

I just felt like posting another part of my experiences, been doing a lot of reflecting and don’t really have anyone else to share with. I know it’s a long read, but hey sometimes people get bored enough to read the long ones.

Someone like me shouldn't believe in love, but I still do. Foolish? Normally I would think so, but not in this case.

Did you know I used to be anti-marriage? I decided when I was 13 that marriage just wasn't for me. I didn't want a family. I never wanted to risk having something that I could lose or hurt. I wanted to be free, to keep my independence. I wanted to be accountable to me and me alone, and maybe a cat or dog. I didn't want to be responsible for/to a husband or a child.



I stuck to my anti-marriage guns all through high school and college. My boyfriends always knew that I would most likely remain an independent cuss, and that I could walk away from them if it suited me, no matter how much I loved them. They knew I wasn't interested in forever, but only as long as it suited us both.

Then I met him. He wasn't my type. He drank and had sex with his girlfriends, whereas I had never touched a drop and was saving my virginity for my husband. We shared the same views on church, but not God. We were also 6000 miles apart. No chance... but still there was something there, what the hell could it be? Something...

Neither of us were really looking around. I had broken up with my last boyfriend about 2 months earlier and was not keen on getting involved in anything with anyone, he had decided to take a break from women for awhile.

We had known each other for quite awhile, we were members of an online community (sort of like this one, only warez oriented) and we had had a few good IRC conversations during the preceding year.

We exchanged pictures... it seems horribly shallow but I think that's what sparked the interest. He was just about the best looking man I had ever seen, but it wasn't just that that drew me in. It wasn't that the picture was great, it was really goofy. He had this ridiculous grin smeared on his face, and he must have been pissed off his ass, but there it was again, that something. Something in his eyes, or his smile... just something.

He said he thought I was beautiful, I thought that was sweet but I didn't believe him. Based on looks alone I considered him way out of my league. Then there were his other qualities...

He was a sweet guy, a kind person… something SO rare. He wasn’t kind to the point were he would let himself get pushed around, but he was gentle and sincere, and funny-as, too. He had a beautiful sense of humour. He was the first real person I’d met in quite awhile. He had real character.

He was just graduating (with honours) from Uni with a degree in Electronic and Computer Engineering... very smart guy, but he wasn't a geek. I learned about his hobbies, he loved to play Field Hockey, and was very good at it. He had worked as a kayak instructor, and at a bike shop. He shared my passion for mountain biking, score! He was creative, he enjoyed drawing and showed me his artwork. He actually could draw, now that's not a common ability in engineers. Our love of music gave us plenty to talk about, never before had I met someone with a passion for music that even compared to mine. He came from a good family, the stories he told reminded me so much of my own family at better times. He was a hard worker, a trait I very much admire and share. We never ran out of things to talk about and interests to share. We talked about everything, for both of us it felt as though we had met someone with an equal intellect. He became my best friend, with that underlying something.

Our relationship began like “I really wish I could find someone like you around here.”

Soon it was “I wish there were some way for you to be where I am.”

And finally it became “I don’t care how far away you are, you’re the one I want.”

We fell in love and were finally able to find ways to express that something that had been there all along.

We were both fairly cautious… looking back it’s amusing because it really took us such a long time to become totally honest with each other about our feelings. We were both nervous about the distance, but the more we opened up the more we realized we were thinking and feeling the very same things.

We wrote letters to each other, we talked online every night, and on the phone most nights. It was never hard spending time together, never a chore, in fact it was always a relief to come home to each other.

I noticed a change in my perspective… for the first time I felt like this was someone I could be with, forever, without losing myself, my life, without giving up on my dreams… he was someone who would just as happily support me in accomplishing my goals as I would support him in accomplishing his. Not only that, but this was someone I could love enough to guarantee my lifetime commitment, for better for worse. Looking at us from every logical standpoint available we didn’t have to worry about the possibility of this ever ending. “A fairy-tale” you may say, but that IS taking into consideration that we did have problems too. Like any healthy relationship we had angry moments, frustrating moments, ‘I don’t want to talk to you!’ moments. Aside from the 6000 miles between us everything about us was fairly ordinary, except our love. That was pretty extraordinary.

It was my mistake that ruined us. I allowed myself to lose respect for him. He lied to me about something, something BIG to me. I didn’t handle it very well, but it involved my virginity so it took on a head of steam and I allowed it to destroy me. I didn’t love him, that’s how much of an impact I allowed it to have. I refused to feel anything for him… but eventually I realized how little sense it made. While my feelings (or lack thereof I should say) were very real, and very powerful, I realized that I shouldn’t allow them to take away something so special… it didn’t feel so special, but I refused to forget or ignore what had been, and could possibly be again.

I learned to trust him again, but I forgot the respect. I tried to control the relationship and him in order to avoid getting hurt again. I started to question his judgement, his abilities, everything. I gave him far less credit than he deserved. That’s pretty easy to see now, but at the time I thought I was only protecting myself.

I treated him like shit for months, not constantly, but whenever there were problems I turned into a monster. I was impatient and rude, demanding and bitchy. I complained about anything, everything. He was patient with me, I think maybe he felt he deserved it. How I wish he had told me where to get off, so many times I just needed a slap in the face to wake me up… but he just took it.

He took it until I broke him.

Then I woke up, saw what I had done, saw what I had become, saw what I had just lost…

All of the complaints I‘ve posted here on totse, all of the situations I’ve described where he has been treating me like shit… the thing is I actually deserve it. Taking the attitude that I deserve it will only get me about as far as he did when he thought I had the right to treat him like shit, so I don’t just accept it. But I know deep down that I deserve it, that I’ve fully earned it. I still refuse to just take it because I would much prefer to bear it, repair it, and still be given the second chance I know I really don’t deserve. I could do wonders with a second chance, the lesson I’ve learned makes me just about the wisest chick he’ll ever meet. I have never made the same mistake twice.

I’m pretty sure it’ll never happen, but who knows. Maybe he’ll sit me down 2 years from now and ask me if I’m keen on a date… stranger things have happened. At the moment he’s being smart, he’s looking out for himself and refusing to let me have any positive effect on him. If he allows me to have a positive effect then he might consider a second chance, and if he considers a second chance then he opens himself up for another round of hell.

The strongest and most constant feeling I get from him is that I am the one thing that he perceives stands between him and the rest of his life... I don't know if he actually believes that, or if it's a thought he holds onto to help keep me at a distance. Fortunately it couldn't be further from the truth, and deep down I think he must know that because he is aware of the fact that I accept him, as he is now, and as he will be later. He knows that he still exceeds my expectations. Hell, he still makes me happy, after everything. And he knows that I am as interested in his future and happiness as he is. He knows I have no desire to control him or his life, and that I would rather die than see him lose a grip on his dreams.

The irony is that we share a lifestyle as friends/flatmates/whatever that 1 year ago he actually described as his ideal relationship, but in his mind we are miserable together, incompatible. All the love and sweetness I can muster up falls to the ground dead when it comes in contact with the barrier he has put up. The good things I have to offer can't get through anymore. But every drop of dischord and negativity finds it's way straight to his heart and pushes him even further away. We have disagreements no more often than we did before, the difference is that now the respect and cooperation factor is no longer in place so the negative impact of our small, most of the time petty, disagreements has about 100 times the effect that it used to.

His opinion is that the only way we would ever again stand a chance is if he somehow found a way to fall in love with me again. It’s obvious to me that that will never happen unless we worked out these other issues. How do you fall in love with someone when you have so many unresolved problems? It can’t happen. I’m not going to try and convince him he’s wrong, I did enough damage of that sort before. And how do you resolve these kinds of problems? That I’m not really sure of, probably because we’ve never tried to sort them out. We’re stuck in this place where we both want to cooperate for our own separate reasons, but we don’t know how to go about it, how to even approach it because we’ve been hurting each other for so long. It would involve a lot of (almost foolhardy when you consider the risk) trust on both of our parts because we have broken nearly all of the promises we ever made to each other. He would be an idiot to ever trust me again, but am I worth it? I think so… I’m not known for having a huge ego, or being overconfident… if anything I don’t think very much of myself, but I know, I KNOW I do have what it would take to make Ben happy… not just happy, but happier than anyone else ever could. As always I still want the best for him, not what I think is best, but what HE thinks is best for him. I'll always hope that he gets the best life has to offer, I want all of his dreams to come true and for him to be 100% content… and after all of my mistakes I still believe that I have the potential to be the best partner there is… I think I have more happiness to give him than any other woman... after all my fuck-ups I can still say that, fairly amazing. It's sad that it will most likely always be wasted potential.



So now you know, he used to love me, he really did. That's not just something I choose to believe because it makes me feel better, it would feel better to believe that it was all wrong and that he was never any good. It's just a fact that he was that good. WE were that good. He loved me so well. We loved each other equally, it was beautiful. It was true love from both sides. If I could convince myself that we really are wrong for each other then I could just move on. It simply isn't true. To this day I know that, regardless of what has happened, if we were to give it the tiniest second chance we could work it out and be happy, for the rest of our lives kind of happy. Neither of us will ever be able to find a more compatible partner, we'll never be able to make anyone else as happy as we made each other. I can say with confidence that he won't be able to replace me or the happiness I once gave him, the happiness he is now too stubborn to allow himself to feel. I won't be able to give that kind of happiness to someone else either. I also won't ever be able to find a love more true. That's what's so damn depressing, the fact that I know the best is behind me. I've fully considered the fact that I could've been fooling myself, that it was one-sided all along, but no-one could have ever pulled off such a fantastic charade.

I also think that he believes he has changed too much... and occasionally I think he has changed too. When I do something kind and he brushes me away, or when he says something particularly painful to hear I think to myself "where did the Ben I knew go?" but he's there, he's still the same Ben. Our situation has changed and the way we relate is askew... but when he smiles, when he laughs, the rare times he allows himself to be happy I can still see it's him after all.

"If it was so real, then why is it over?" I dunno, probably never will understand it. Human nature? I guess...

I've learned that true love really is as rare as 'they' say, and that it's NOT unconditional. I've learned to be much more careful when I open my mouth to complain.

He learned not to just take never-ending shit... and to stand up for himself. I'm glad he learned it, I hope he never lets anyone get away with the things I did... But I'll never be able to forgive myself for being the one that taught him this lesson.

The point of this post? Dunno really, just need to get this kind of thing out there, anywhere. Maybe it'll help someone else avoid the kind of mistakes I made?

http://spnz.no-ip.com/pictures/happiness.jpg

[This message has been edited by Sarcophagus (edited 02-11-2004).]

I don't have anything to say, but I wanted to tell you that I read it. Every word.

I feel the same way about me and my ex, that we could get back together in the future because it was so good. I'm feeling really dumb right now, so I won't try and be smart and end up sounding like an ass, so I'll just say this is a very excellent post Sarc.

Are you still looking for your own place? I think you were.. everything's a jumble these days.

Mods, you better archive this.

Better yet, put it up as a text file. People need to read this shit.

Nice work, Sarc.

Good lesson, which I shall take to heart myself.

Archiving, btw.

Its hard but its time to move on...

You feel the need to develop an online persona as a means to mitigating your feelings of emptiness with regards to the alienating factors in your real life.

I'll expecting your $25 shrink fees by email-credit card.

Thankyou and have a nice life.

Holy shit, archived? Seriously? I'm glad it is considered usefull, I feel... honoured.

BTW I edited it slightly (why do I always edit things, I'm insane) how does archiving work? Does it update the archived version?

Hmm, seems the archives are carved in stone. If you prefer the edited version to be archived, we can do that.

TLDR..

Being young, I hope to learn from what I am about to read. It's long, and it's late, so I'll respond tomorow night.

Just thought that was worth saying... here I go.

quote:Originally posted by deadlycindy:

Hmm, seems the archives are carved in stone. If you prefer the edited version to be archived, we can do that.

Would that help to make you feel immortal dear Cindy? Would future generations truly rather read the moronic crap that you felt the need to replace my thoughful insights with?

Do that again, bitch, and I will complain and you will no longer be mod.

Your modship gives you no excuse to be a censoring bitch.

Hope you find that love again, Sarc.

All the best.

i feel that way with an ex too that if we wanted to we could probably get back together, but he's also being safe and not wanting to be hurt again (my fault entirely, not getting into it) and i've moved on with a new bf but yeah ... anything more would be somewhat repetitive, dwelling and thinking on "what if" and "could haves" does nothing and only brings depression and cycling thoughts, but i do hope you find love again be it with him or with someone new ... very good post i must say

quote:Originally posted by Sarcophagus:

I've done a lot of complaining here.



Damn right you have. You could have kept it short and sweet but NOOOOO you had to write a fucking book.

Sarc, you have got to let this go. The only reason why you are trying to blame yourself for the breakup is it allows you to hold hope in your head that there is a possibility of things changing. There is much you do not understand. Don’t assume you had that much control over your ex’s rejection of you. His reactions to you were as much his decision as your reactions to his lie were your decision. As far as your ability to make him happy in the future, you have none. That does not come from you. He has to give it to you, and he does not want to. You have to allow your heart to finish breaking and then give it time to heal.

Also, you said you were planning on never getting married but you were saving yourself for your husband??

[This message has been edited by Easy Going (edited 02-11-2004).]

Wow...

quote:Originally posted by Easy Going:

Also, you said you were planning on never getting married but you were saving yourself for your husband??

I hadn't wanted to bring this up just yet, but I was wondering the same thing. It struck me as a bit of a paradox.

^yeah, i'm a dick for bringing it up now. now you see why i have to have a strategy?? if i just start saying what i think i get myself in trouble too much, lol. sarc, sorry for being a dick. i am kinda blunt with my opinions and observations.

Damn, brought me to tears.

I want the movie rights, for real.

deadlycindy, actually keeping the old un-edited version archived is best, thanks heeeeaps!

Easy: dude, I'm starting to think you don't read my posts but instead just type out the first cynical thing that comes to mind. I don't blame you, it was a bloody long post. You were a bit off track though I think, I'm trying to apply parts of what you said to my post, and some of it just doesn't fit and the rest is almost the identical to what I've said.

At any rate, thank you for your comments, but this time I was only sharing, a pointless schpeal. I think I've got it sorted out, finally. Now I'm just working on the becoming-happy-again part.

Oh, and should've said "saving my virginity for my husband, should I ever lose my mind and decide to get married"

lifejunkie... I think you're taking the piss, but I'm not 100% sure... are you being sarcastic?

[This message has been edited by Sarcophagus (edited 02-11-2004).]

I read every word, some parts twice. I will summarize and you can tell me what I am missing. You met some guy who swept you off your feet. A relationship that you once thought was not possible seemed possible. Things seemed like a realistic fairy tale for a while. He lied about something. You got insecure and put up your bitch shield. You think that over time that became the reason he does not love you anymore. You know him so well, and you know how to make him happy, if only you had a second chance. You just don't know how to get that second chance. It was a tough lesson to learn and you will never make the same mistake. Am I missing something?

Sarc, you and a lot of attractive women do yourselves a disservice by not allowing yourself to experience heartbreak. Attractive girls have too many options and can turn over guys so fast that they don't really have to open themselves up if they choose not to. It is too easy to move on. As a result, they don't get real life experience with heartbreak. When it happens, they don't have a clue what is going on. Pretty much every example I have seen of someone going thru this involves some attempt to blame themselves. That is not healthy. You cannot move on while you are continuing the relationship in your mind on your own. No one is perfect in any relationship. Sure there are things you did wrong. There are things he did wrong too. That does not necessitate ending the relationship. The only thing that ends it is one person deciding not to continue. Their reason is irrelevant once the decision is made. I have learned this the hard way and apparently you will too. You just have to let it go. It is not fair. It will not make sense. You will never know all his reasons or understand the ones you are told. Issues will not be resolved. But you will survive it.

I know you are posting this as life lesson that you are learning for the future. However, the thought pattern is just too obvious. I posted in the SG thread when you first announced the breakup that trying to blame yourself was just an attempt to keep hope alive in your mind. You are still doing it. These issues will continue to be with you till after you quit that.

You can think that I am just cynical and talking out of my ass if you want, but I have been where you are several times. I know what I’m talking about.



[This message has been edited by Easy Going (edited 02-11-2004).]

For the record, it must be said that a post of mine in this thread was deleted without good reason, and I was offended. Deadlycindy is still new to the mod thing and she is learning. I will accept her apology, provided she has the dignity to make one.

^^That was completely off-topic. You sure are proving to be an attention whore.

Idiot. It's right fucking here:

quote:Originally posted by Jackinmyhat:

You feel the need to develop an online persona as a means to mitigating your feelings of emptiness with regards to the alienating factors in your real life.

I'll expecting your $25 shrink fees by email-credit card.

Thankyou and have a nice life.

Seriously. I can't believe how retarded you are. You made such a huge fuss, and it turns out that you're just a moron.

Apology? Apology shit. YOU should apologize for being so retarded.

quote:Originally posted by deadlycindy:

^^That was completely off-topic. You sure are proving to be an attention whore.

I'm just asking you to admit that you made a mistake. What is so wrong with that? Of course if you choose not to admit it, then that would be the easiest way of concealing it. I'll assume that you have chosen not to, and will let the matter go.

Jack, you fucking moron, YOUR POST IS STILL THERE!!! Just LOOK! Look up there! It's right fucking THERE!!!!! Cindy archived this thread BEFORE you posted, how many times do we have to tell you that before it gets through your fucking skull!?!?! Your post isn't going to show up in the archived version, but IT'S STILL HERE!!! Let it go you fucking pathetic little shit!

Easy, you summarized it well enough, but I still think you just don't get it. It actually was my mistake, and I see no harm in admitting that. I don't see why you think that holding myself accountable in any way gives me any hope. In fact, I read over my post again and everything I said seems fairly devoid of hope... the closest I got to hopeful was my comment that perhaps 2 years down the road Ben might ask me out on a date. Even that, ya know, it's vague at best. I'm not hanging in there anymore, like I said my only reason for sharing this was just in case my experiences could give someone else a new perspective.

And BTW I'm not a pretty girl, and I've had my fair share of heartbreak. I had a meeeean crush on a fella for 6 years when I was just a wee lass (11-17) and I gotta tell ya, unrequited love is pretty brutal. The two serious relationships I've had (the ones that lasted over 2 years) ended very badly, and neither were even remotely my fault. Broken hearts all around, mostly mine though.

So no, it's not that I haven't had enough dating experience... just open your mind to the slight possibility that this relationship actually was as unique and special as I'm telling you it was. It might clear things up a bit.

Sarc maybe you and others will get it through your skulls that wasn't the post I was referring to; it was one after that that expanded on the original theme. Got it? Now I really have good reason to think it was unjustifiably deleted, because I've been posting on totse for about 2 years and in all that time I haven't once fucked up the "submit reply" thing.

But in the extremely improbable instance that Cindy was telling the truth and didn't censor, then I apologize.

I found it particularly offensive because I had put a lot of thought into that post and it had a lot of personal meaning for myself too, not just you Sarc. It was a piece of my soul, and then poof it was gone forever. You can relate to that.

My children are my words, and those words were abducted.

quote:Originally posted by Jackinmyhat:

My children are my words, and those words were abducted.

*sirens whooping*

AMBER ALERT!!!

Sarc, I have no doubt that your relationship was special. I also have no doubt that you will find another special one. I just don't like to see you torture yourself.

Jack, repost it. You can write it again. Even if Cindy did delete it, you cannot force her to admit it. One complaint is enough.

I can't be the only one who reviews his posts AFTER they've been posted. And the reason I do this, is because about 1 out of every 25 posts disappears. I don't know why, maybe there is a glitch somewhere in the UBB programming, or maybe it's because my ISP kind of sucks. But I doubt even the some-what arogant Cindy has the audacity to delete your post. That kind of infringement on the Totse rules would not be tolerated. If you really wanna be a bitch about it get Wintermute or Zok to look into it, but you'll probably just aggravate them. Or you could make more hate threads in B&M that seems to be taking real effect. *coughattentionwhorecough*

-Nocuous

[This message has been edited by nocuous (edited 02-12-2004).]

Well said, nocuous.

Ready to admit you were wrong Jack? I think it's about damn time, you've made enough of a fool of yourself.

Oh man, who is that guy on that site, ok i can write forever, but i can never read my work, same with your story its way too long. I might forget how breathe and die, yea know. J/k. Ill try to read a paragraph a day.

quote:Originally posted by Sarcophagus:



lifejunkie... I think you're taking the piss, but I'm not 100% sure... are you being sarcastic?



No, I'm for real.

Really hit me for some reason.

Pssst..

Ya didn't answer my first question.

I'm really curious about the hunt for your own place to live, given this post, because it's probable you're not going to be able to see this clearly for what it is- whatever it is- unless you're away from him, regardless of how well (or not) you get along now. I would be amazed- downright shocked, really- if anyone could see the situation as objectively as they need to while still rooming with their ex.

I thinks she posted before they will stay together for a while. I also think that no one would see a breakup of this kind objectively for a while looking at it from the inside.

Hmmm, know what Sarc? Sometimes the perfect guy for you is right in front of your face.

Ever consider moving back to the States?