So... small problems can turn into big problems very easily. I posted about a few problems we were having, his shirt, just some minor things. Uncomfortable at the time, but liveable.

Then my ex broke up with his gf, and started hanging around me a lot more. My bf didn't like it, and voiced his oppinion on the matter, and requested I back off of spending time with him. I was not happy, and kinda blew up, taking it as a trust and control thing.

Big bad day- I was moving some things, and ryan was helping when I saw my ex on the same bus. Ryan was not happy, sat at the front, my ex got up and moved to the back. But I had not talked to him for a while, so I sat my stuff down next to ryan, and went to talk with my ex. I swear there were looks passed. I know ryan was shocked as hell. I was kinda choking on the angry waves sent our way, so about half way through the ride, I went to go sit back up with ryan. My ex and I live pretty close now, and he is the stop before mine. He waiting till my stop, got off, hugged me in front of ryan, and said something about maybe coming over later that night- he knew ryan had to work. Was looking straight at him when he said it.

Needless to say this did not go over well at all, and a few days later when I hadn't banished my ex from my life, ryan threw a hissy fit, and left. I explained the bus incident cause that was a prime example used in his good bye speach. My ex meanwhile has been very supportive and cheerful. I dislike the tone he is taking with it, if there is a tone. I may be overreacting.

I dont know what to do. I have been crying like the world was ending for the past few days, and can't get ahold of ryan. He blocked me online and wont answer his phone. I would have to skip calculus to see him, and I cant afford to do that. The next option to get in touch with him would be taking a cab to his place and waiting for him to get off work, nad come back- but is it worth that?

If he was willing to throw me away over this, after everything else, should I really crawl back to himand apologize for being supportive of a friend when he was down? I miss him so much, not being able to talk with him, or sit with him, its driving me nuts. I get sick just thinking about being with someone else, and never talking to him again.

i mean yeah i can understand how he's jealous but if he's going to break up with you and ignore you because of it then thats pretty damn immature.

I don't know what advice to give you except give it some time and see how this whole thing pans out.

Good luck!

Your ex is trying to steal you from your boyfriend. Without a fucking doubt.

I am astonished that the Ryan guy didn't take a baseball bat to your ex's skull after that shit.

Any normal red-blooded American male would have undoubtably killed the guy.

You're lucky that he left, and didn't do anything else. Then again, maybe he just hasn't thought of a proper revenge yet.

I must admit, however, that I can't believe you didn't see what your ex was doing.

Yeah, sure does sound like your ex wants you back. Almost sounds like he was just stirring shit and trying to score some sex from you maybe.

I know it sounds harsh but i wouldn't have been suprised if after the bus incident your bf attacked your ex. Testoterone and male egos are both powerful and predictable forces.

You should be careful about how you play with guys, you think they're predictable (and controllable) but don't screw around with their little minds too much or they snap and start killing eachother (not you).

No offence, but if I had been Ryan, I would have broken up with you too. But I think the situation is probably salvagable. You guys were together for quite awhile (by my standards) so he probably cares about you quite a bit. I think it's worth taking the cab over there and waiting for him. If you know that you were in the wrong by responding to this ex and ignoring Ryan's wishes and you can admit that (apologize), he'll probably take you back. But if you don't think you were wrong in what you did, your apology will suck and he'll grow to hate you. Good luck

Kikey was dead-on. Also, if I recall, you posted something about that same ex, and something about him over at your house and some kind of "playful" touching (you squeezed his nipple or something, right?). I could be wrong, I can't find the thread, but I'm pretty sure it was you. I'm assuming Ryan doesn't know about that side of things, but even the bus incident was rather incensing. Not only incensing, though: I can guarantee you Ryan was hurt too. Being a normal male, he was probably expecting you to tell your ex to go to hell (or at least reject him obviously), but it doesn't sound like you did. If I were Ryan, I would have handled it the same, although I also would have grabbed his hair and forcefully shoved his face through a bus window, but that's just me. Maybe it's salvageable; it depends on how far you're willing to go. Do you regret what you did with your ex? Are you willing to forsake him completely and be with Ryan? Are you willing to admit you fucked up? If you are, give it a try. Skip calc a day, whatever you need to do. However, before you do that, give him just a little time to cool off. He will still be smarting, but he will miss you too, even though he won't say it, and he'll probably be pretty spiteful with you. Best of luck handling this one

-Infrared

Ryan's an ass. But ask yourself this: Do you really want to be involved with someone who does all that over something so minor. You don't need that kind of greif in your life.

It's your own fucking fault. How the fuck do you think your boyfriend will react when you start hanging out with an ex. Stupidest shit I've ever heard.

It's your fault, none of his. He was being a responsible protective boyfriend.



Shek

beg for forgiveness. tell him about how you're sorry about everything and didn't mean to make him jealous.

you fucked up bigtime.

ryan is obviously insecure... hence the shirt thing. no guys like their girlfriends ex. it makes us feel even more insecure, the thought that someone you were close to is still there. if you're friendly with your ex, it makes your current guy even more insecure, the thought that you might go back to him. and on top of all of that, you talked to the ex instead of the boyfriend, then hugged him.

ex boyfriends are a horrible thing to have in your group of friends, because they always put doubts in your current guys head.

I never did understand the whole concept about staying in touch with "ex's", when you move on just move on. If he's an ex then obviously there were problems before with him. If he just broke up with his g/f then, no offence, but he probably just wants to make sure he can still get laid.

I agree with all the above who said they would've beat the shit out of the guy, I would've too, right there at the bus stop when he made the crack about coming over that night. He was obviously playing on your man's insecurities and knew it would start trouble. He was right.

I'd throw the asshole away. If Ryan doesn't take you back then oh well, move on, but I'd still throw the asshole ex to the curb. He'll just start more shit.

They are both pretty non violent as far as I have seen. I dont think there is any danger of a fight.

I didn't really do anything wrong. Ryan always said it was okay that I hung out with my ex. He didn't wanna go on a double date with the guy or hang out, but it seemed just fine. I should not have to give up a friend because of his insecurity. But I could have gone about making my views known a little better.

And yeah, I did post about the cuddling, playful stuff that still went on between us. Yes, Ryan kinda knew about it too, but we never really did any of that in front of him (as was advised when people here told me it was kinda normal/okay), and I never went into specifics to tell him what my ex and I did or talked about.

I dont want to give up my ex. I need his help with homework, I need his help with programming, and I have to see him too often to just cut off contact. I do want him to back off. The bus thing is the first really agressive kick to ryan I have ever seen him do. I didn't think it was that big of a deal when I went back to sit with him. Just after I got there...I noticed it was not friendly territory. And he hugged me. I was a frozen statue in shock. Very afraid and confused of what had just happened, and wondering if I was seeing things right.

Prince Charming- I expected him to smile a little tightly at first, then loosen up and see that he is twenty times better than the other guy. Maybe grudgingly accept his presence?

As for getting rid of the ex... isn't there some way to wack some sense into him and keep him as a friend? I am not sure, at least I dont want to believe that he would purposely cause trouble between me and ryan. Just, maybe he wanted to jab him a little, and didn't realize how hard he would take it. What goes on between me and Ryan kinda stays out of our conversation topics. Its just not right to sit there and talk about his replacement like we were not together for five months.

As for getting him to back off, just tell him, in no uncertain terms, to cool it. That may be "well duh" to many, but seriously. If he's even worth keeping around, and if he has any honor, he'll respect your wishes.

After reading your last post, you make more sense: I've been in the position of "friend of a girl with a boyfriend who hates me". I know it must put you in a terrible position, and for that I'm sorry. All you can do is tell Ryan he's the one you love, and hell, explain to him what you're telling all of us on totse; about how uncomfortable the bus fiasco made you. If Ryan parrots that "him or me" hard line, you might have to rethink things. Simply put, there is no honor whatsoever in trying to put a stop to a friendship by extortion. Ryan will have to live with some insecurity, but he can trust you, can't he? Can he trust you to tell your ex to knock things off and keep his hands to himself and stay away from Ryan's territory (this includes your home, which I'm assuming you have together)?

I realize my attitude seems to have vastly changed since what I said before; I was a little quick to judge, without considering this side of it. Sorry about that. Take care, and good luck

-Infrared

Edit: You did take this somewhat too far, though. Ryan DOES have every reason to be mad, and be suspicious, but like I said above, if you're trustworthy and you do want your ex in your life as a friend and nothing but, Ryan's now going to have to decide whether he can trust you and accept it, or move on. Some of this is on his head too.



[This message has been edited by Infrared (edited 09-01-2003).]

quote:Originally posted by Isabel:

I didn't really do anything wrong.

Yes you did. You were very wrong and I would have left you too. Your BF said it was okay for you to hang with your ex because 1. it really is not his call and 2. he has to trust you. But it not just trust you not to sleep with him. You have to bring things to a halt if this ex gets out of line. He was hitting on you, you knew it, your BF knew it, you allowed it to continue, you even allowed it to continue in front of your BF's face which probably disrespected and embarrassed him. NEVER EVER DISS A SIGNIFICANT OTHER LIKE THAT! Consider yourself lucky that your BF is not violent. Many would have kicked the shit out of your ex and a few would have given you your share too. If you want your BF back, cut your ex out of your life and crawl back on your hands and knees. If that is too much, move on and learn from this.

BTW, regarding your give up your friends and his insecurity comments: You are so out of line here. He did not ask you to give up a friend originally. This is not about insecurity about what might happen. This is about what did happen. What you allowed to happen right in front of his face. If this logic is what you are using when you talk to him, it is no wonder why he will not communicate with you. It would be pointless.

-Easy

I still say you were wrong, and if you can't see that you have no chance of getting back with Ryan. That is unless he's a big pussy

The general consensus of everyone in this thread is dead on.

You seriously fucked up. You deserve to have the guy leave and never come back.

Think about it. You want to hang out with your ex. Now, Ryan can't really say anything. It's not his business who you hang out with.

But, you also start cuddling and touching the jerk-off. Somehow, you seem to think this okay.

Then, the ex BLATANTLY taunts this Ryan. In the jungle, that would've resulted in a fucking duel on the spot.

I GUAR-AN-FUCKING-TEE you that Ryan was ready to jump on the fuck and smash his skull into the pavement. The jerk-off's challenged his authority, and revenge is what's in our instincts. Sure, he may be a non-violent guy, but even pacifists can be pushed too far.

So, all this is too much. The guy's tried to be nice, he's tried to be undertanding, but you have pushed him too fucking far. I guarantee you he's had enough, and rightly so.

But what I don't get is...

Somehow, you think it's HIS FAULT. That he's the jerk-off, and you're just the innocent little princess.

You're not. You did something seriously wrong. I don't know if you subconsciously were relishing in all the attention or what, but you obviously didn't realize what was going on.

I just can't even comprehend how you can blame this on him.

Typical broad, I guess. You'll make a fine yenta.

I strongly agree with the general consensus of everyone as well. If you cant even acknowledge that YOU WERE AT FAULT, then indeed you truly did deserve this.

[This message has been edited by Ayanir (edited 09-01-2003).]

[This message has been edited by Ayanir (edited 09-01-2003).]

What it boils down to is you need to figure out who is more important to you. Figure that out, and ditch the other one. Don't even stay friends, ditch him. This kind of shit just doesn't work and if it continues then someone will get hurt, either emotionally or physically.

This shit just does not work.

Ryan is a decent bloke from what i've read. He has done absolutely nothing wrong, but of course you being a woman can do no wrong. Sorry, that was not a personal stab, I just feel very strongly about women that think that they can do no wrong.

Can you not see what is happening? Your ex is a fucking twat. If I was ryan, I honestly would have fucking killed him. You leaving your boyfriend on the bus to talk to your ex is a fucking pisstake.

Put yourself in his position. Actually no don't worry. Stupid point there.

I myself has been in a similar situation, only not so extreme. I no longer have contact with my ex at all whatsoever. My current gf hates her guts, and she STILL thinks that i miss my ex. this was about 4 months ago that I went through it. If you have any contact at all he will still be pissed off.

I will put it bluntly for you;

Your ex is not your friend

He wants to fuck you

He wants to get rid of Ryan

He is proud of himself for fucking your relationship up

Ditch your ex. Apologise to Ryan. Make him feel secure.

Good luck

Nothing more for me to add here I can see. Seems like Kikey, GlitterPunk, Infrared, EyeSore,,Easy Going and Prince Charming have got it all summed up. They know what they're talking about here, so follow their words of advice.

This is past insecurities and trust issues, and any girl who's responding to their past boyfriend's flirts, comeons and whatever, IN FRONT OF their present boyfriend doesn't need to even START TO TALK about insecurities...

WHat the hell is wrong with the girl? Can't she see what the guy is doing in front of your man? More importantly, why is she cuddling up to someone who isn't her boyfriend...

You always seemed like a mature poster here, but I think you need to talk some issues over with your boyfriend. If he's the real deal, he'll still be angry, but willing to listen you out. Well, at least I would do that. Don't worry, not all is lost. Just be truthful with your boyfriend, and if you're lucky, this situation with your boyfriend will be all over in no time.

Take the cab, go meet him. If you're taking a cab to visit him, it must mean that he stays quite a distance away, and that will surely make an impression on him. Show him you're serious about this, you're commited to make this relatioship woek no matter what.

Good luck

Cheers

First off- look at the post subject "I FUCKED UP." I get that a lot of it was my fault.

I also get that it was a lot to ask. I just didn't know how much it all bothered him. I wasn't accepting my exs flirting...I didn't think it was flirting. He had a new girl, I had a new guy. We were over. Whats wrong with using him as a pillow while watching a movie? I didn't see it as my ex trying to antagonize ryan. Not until it blew me out of the water on the bus.



Its not even just my ex though. There is another friend of mine I hang out with a lot too. But he has never said anything to Ryan, and goes out of his way to avoid him. All three guys have closet space in my appt. *cringes* (go ahead and yell at me for that).

My ex was always restricted to the couch tho, and we never did anything except the cuddling. My friend, well I posted on him a few weeks ago. He was helping me move, and stayed over the first night. He was acting a little strange, and after that he got restricted to the couch too.

Believe it or not, Ryan never said anything to me about their stuff or them, and I thought he was okay with it. Everyone lives kinda far from the school, I didn't see anything wrong with letting them stay with me a few nights when they had to be there early.

So..I spend the $40 on the cab...I dont think flowers would go over so well. Burned remains of thier toothbrushes? I guess its kinda obvious they dont get to keep their closet space. But I still dont want to cut off all contact. How do I apologize, without giving up everything?

*sigh* at least I didn't agree to live with him this semester like he wanted. I would prolly be out on my ass. Do gifts really help say your sorry?

Don't buy your way out of problems, talk your way into an compromise. Just say the truth and it'll be alright. From my experience.

Cheers

just go to him, and appologize. make very sure he knows that you're sorry, but that the other guys aren't a threat to him. don't totally cut them off, but cut down on the affectionate cuddling, and hugging; stuff of that sort. make sure he feels like the only guy in your life. if you can do that, you'll get him back.

You go to UT, right? So how can you be this dumb? Even after all we've said, you still seem to think it wasn't completely 100 fucking percent your fault! It is. You shouldn't talk to Ryan until you realize that he did absolutely NOTHING wrong.

Alright, here's my 2 cents:

Why the fuck is your ex being an ass to Ryan right to his face? And being super suggestive like that? If he's such a good "friend" and you want to console him and help him through a breakup, that's one thing, but it seems pretty fucked up that he would do something like that to you. In that situation, if you're involved in any normal relationship, you would have HAD to react negatively to your ex, and it doesn't sound like you did.

Maybe you're just having trouble admitting to yourself that you still want your ex, but if this really isn't the case then you should have sided with your boyfriend. It's not a matter of you "hanging out" with your ex, it's a matter of him openly making sexually suggestive comments to you right in front of him, and they're in two totally different leagues. So yeah, you fucked up, and he left.

Isabel, while you have to be faulted for being utterly blind to what your ex was doing, I'm not going to harp on that. It's been done already. Naivete, blindness to true intentions, that's stuff you can (and hopefully will) learn. Where you fucked up for real was in not sticking up for your boyfriend or your relationship.

Ryan seems like an extremely understanding guy, by and large, as has been said. But everyone has a limit, and I don't think any guy worth having is going to go beyond having his girlfriend blatantly hit on in front of him in this manner. He probably did want to rip the fucker's arm out and bludgeon him to death with it, but just as you're the reason for that anger, you're also the reason he didn't do it. Specifically, that asshole was doing that shit, yet you didn't say (and apparently still haven't said) anything negative to him about it. If my girlfriend was being so cozy with a guy who was shoving it in my face that he was tight with her again, I wouldn't beat his ass. I'd dump her too. She deserves him and the bullshit he'll throw at her, so fuck it.

Another thing- you posted all this shit before about not wanting to be dependant on Ryan for your bills or apartment or anything, yet you're telling us you *need* this guy for programming and *need* this guy for whatever else, I don't remember, and that you can't break off all contact with him because of it. That's dependence. It doesn't matter that we're not talking about the basic needs of life. If you feel that he's indispensable, then you're dependant on him, and that needs to stop. He will take complete advantage of that, and of you. If you need that much help with schoolwork, get it elsewhere or spend more time studying. That goes regardless of your situation with Ryan.

Isabel, Isabel, Isabel

What can I say...

Basically, your ex wants you back(even if only to see if he could get you back)

I understand how your boyfriend felt...

Especially after the whole bus situation.

The way he looked right at Ryan and said he'd come over later when Ryan was at work...

He punked your bf bigtime and basically you allowed your ex to treat your boyfriend like a prison bitch....

You even defended him...

Ryan is probably very hurt because in his eyes you chose your ex's feelings over his and that says alot regarding who you really care more about and what little respect you have for Ryan...

Put yourself in his situation...if it was his ex and you KNEW SHE WAS UP TO SOMETHING and he acted like you were psychotic and overreacting...you would not answer your phone when he called either

I hope you can work things out....but you must first remove your ex(who's acting smug because HE KNOWS HE WON) from your life. If not completely at least have the decency to put your bf first.

quote:Originally posted by Isabel:

First off- look at the post subject "I FUCKED UP." I get that a lot of it was my fault.

It was all your fault. If you go back to your BF with anything less than that, he would disrespect himself if he took you back.

quote:Originally posted by Isabel:

I wasn't accepting my exs flirting...I didn't think it was flirting. He had a new girl, I had a new guy. We were over. Whats wrong with using him as a pillow while watching a movie? I didn't see it as my ex trying to antagonize ryan. Not until it blew me out of the water on the bus.



I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt here and believe you that you did not think it was flirting. A lot of girls, especially younger ones, make this mistake. This is why they are so easy to seduce. Let me let you in on a secret that you may not want to believe. The guy is being nice to you because he wants to sleep with you. I'll say it again because you probably did not get it. The guy is being nice to you because he wants to sleep with you. Do you think he would be doing your homework if you were a guy or a girl with warts all over your ass? I know you would like to think all the attention you get is because you are such an interesting person, but the guy is just being nice to you because he wants to sleep with you. Your BF already knew this and he trusted you. You violated his trust.

quote:Originally posted by Isabel:

and goes out of his way to avoid him.

This guy is a pussy and he wants to sleep with you.

quote:Originally posted by Isabel:

All three guys have closet space in my appt. *cringes* (go ahead and yell at me for that).

You obviously know that that is a problem. This is like some sort of relationship double think. You know exactly why Ryan left you even though he has not told you. You know exactly what your most egregious errors are, but you want to justify them in your head because you want to act that way. You rationalize them and act as if they can't be that bad or that you did not know it was really that way, or that Ryan did not tell you it bothered him so it must have been okay. Do you really want a boyfriend who is going to lay down the law and tell you everything you can't do? When someone says that they trust you in a relationship, they are trusting that you know what you can do and that you will not cross the line. It is not that they think you should be allowed to do whatever you feel like. If you pretend that things like what you are doing are okay until your BF says otherwise, then he would be a fool to trust you.

quote:Originally posted by Isabel:

He was acting a little strange, and after that he got restricted to the couch too.



Remember that he is just being nice to you because he wants to sleep with you. All the stuff you thought was normal was strange and you restricted him to the couch when he started acting normal. I am not saying he is a bad guy or that you should not like any guy who wants to sleep with you, but you cannot kid yourself about this. It is normal to focus on all the things about someone that you like and want (like all the help you’re getting and how well he treats you) and then to ignore everything you don’t like (like how he wants to get in your pants). But if you do that too much, you lose touch with reality.

quote:Originally posted by Isabel:

Believe it or not, Ryan never said anything to me about their stuff or them,

I believe it and it sounds like he is a really great guy. Lets get back to the issue of what you want or need in a guy. Do you really want some guy that tells you everything you can’t do and harps on you when you do do something wrong? If a guy does trust you to do the right thing like he should at first, do you think that is a license to do whatever you feel like?

quote:Originally posted by Isabel:

I thought he was okay with it.

How would you be if your BF’s ex and a few other girls who wanted him kept spending the night at his place? I seriously doubt many girls would be as understanding as your BF was.

quote:Originally posted by Isabel:

So..I spend the $40 on the cab...I dont think flowers would go over so well. Burned remains of thier toothbrushes? I guess its kinda obvious they dont get to keep their closet space. But I still dont want to cut off all contact. How do I apologize, without giving up everything?

*sigh* at least I didn't agree to live with him this semester like he wanted. I would prolly be out on my ass. Do gifts really help say your sorry?

Communication is going to be key here. You can get a gift too if you want, but you have to let him know that you fucked up. Tell him you really did not know what was going on till it was too late and then you really did not know what to do. Tell him that you understand how he feels and it is all your fault. Tell him that you don’t want to lose any friends, but you understand if he does not trust you any more and ask him what he needs to feel secure. Offer to not see any of these guys alone in private or whatever he wants.

This will validate his feelings and let you know exactly what you need to do to get your BF back. For some guys, a gift and apology will be enough. For others, you will have to never see these other guys again. No one here can tell you what will work, but Ryan can. In addition, the fact that you ask him for the solution will go a long way to reestablishing trust. It is possible that he will ask for less than you think. But you have to prepare for him asking that you don’t see these guys again. You also have to prepare for the possibility that if he does take you back, he will not trust you for a while. He may question you from time to time and you should just answer him without getting defensive until you earn his trust back.

One more thing. I still don’t think you get how serious what you did is. IMO, it is worse than a lot of cheating that goes on. If a GF sleeps with some guy in the heat of the moment or while drunk, and then is truly sorry and wants to do whatever it take to fix her relationship, that is bad, but not as bad as a GF that takes her BF for granted and allows other possible suitors to use her to disrespect him in public. One is a mistake that should not happen, but is fixable. The other is done by someone who obviously has no intention of doing her part to have a good relationship.

-Easy

quote:Originally posted by Spiffy McBang:

you posted all this shit before about not wanting to be dependant on Ryan for your bills or apartment or anything, yet you're telling us you *need* this guy for programming and *need* this guy for whatever else, I don't remember, and that you can't break off all contact with him because of it. That's dependence. It doesn't matter that we're not talking about the basic needs of life. If you feel that he's indispensable, then you're dependant on him, and that needs to stop. He will take complete advantage of that, and of you. If you need that much help with schoolwork, get it elsewhere or spend more time studying. That goes regardless of your situation with Ryan.

*blinks*

shit. How could I have missed that?

um...I went to see him today after he got off work. I dont know what the hell happened, or what it means. He let me in, and let me talk, but he didn't say anything except at the end. He told me I should go, and kissed my forehead and gave me a light hug. I am so lost. I want to keep talking to him, but I dont know what to say now, and I feel like I can't or shouldn't talk to him.

quote:Originally posted by Isabel:

Whats wrong with using him as a pillow while watching a movie?

Does anyone else find this a little strange?

He's your FUCKING EX! Id be pissed if my Gf decided to use some other guy "as a pillow". I think the biggest part of your problem is your attitude ...



hey Im new here....

^Of all the things that she did, that would be the last of my concerns. However, I would not use an ex as a pillow while I was in another serious relationship.

On another note, welcome to totse.

-Easy

quote:Originally posted by Isabel:

um...I went to see him today after he got off work. I dont know what the hell happened, or what it means. He let me in, and let me talk, but he didn't say anything except at the end. He told me I should go, and kissed my forehead and gave me a light hug. I am so lost. I want to keep talking to him, but I dont know what to say now, and I feel like I can't or shouldn't talk to him.

This is almost certainly one of two things.

1. He cares about you, but he's done with this relationship. (Unfortunately, that's my guess.)

2. All is not lost, but you have to take your time getting back together with him. The trust can still be rebuilt, but the ex has to go, period, and even then you can't force anything. Just do what you can and hope for the best. This seems a little less likely, but it's a definite possibility, so as long as you want to get back with Ryan, don't give up unless he tells you point blank that it's not going to happen.

What did you say to him when you talked to him? If you said that you're not willing to give up these friends and that you still think he overreacted, the kiss on the forehead was probably his way of saying "I can't believe you still don't get it. I almost feel sorry for you for being this dumb, but not bad enough to take you back. Now leave."

You know I dont care if I get flamed or banned for this but I just have to say it. You are one of the dumbest most arrogant, rude people i've heard of who doesnt even deserve to have a relationship because she doesnt even understand what that entails. You have a superiority complex so ingrained within your subconcious you do not realize that you JUST CANT BLAME yourself. You are instinctively VERY SELFISH, and should be ashamed, and deserve everything you got. Your bf spared you a lot of your stupidity you should be fortunate he respected you this much.

You know what Isabell, fuck it. You obviously don't care about your and Ryan's relationship enough to make it work so just leave the guy alone. You've done enough damage, you don't have to drag him through the mud any more than you have. Just because you like the attention of two males on your ass doesn't mean that you get the right to COMPLETELY fuck up and then not know what happened.

Cuddling with your ex...hmph. If my GF did that there would be one HELL of an argument about that and the ex would get a fist in the stomach.

You're completely oblivious to Ryan's feelings. Would it be ok with you if he left you on the other side of the bus so that one of his ex's could hit on him and then blatantly suggest a little "visit" while you were out while looking straight at you? HELL FUCKING NO! You would shot your tampon through the floor and be pissed as hell, and if you weren't then you should be because a truely caring partner wouldn't tolerate any bullshit flirting between ex's. You shouldn't put Ryan through any more and just let him get on with his life.

Christ, that's harsher than I could every put it.

I tip my top hat to you, good sir.

Wow, no shit.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Spiffy McBang:

[B] This is almost certainly one of two things.

1. He cares about you, but he's done with this relationship. (Unfortunately, that's my guess.)

QUOTE]

I have to say that's my guess also

Isabel.... pull your head outta your ass one time! What the fuck kind of mind game playing two timer are you? That has got to be outright, the stupidest thing I've ever heard. And what makes the whole thing even more pathetic...is that you don't think you've done anything wrong. OH SHIT!! did you ever! I would've kicked the teeth out of old "meet me later on's" mouth. Then I would've dumped your sorry ass. This is RICOCKULOUS!!!! Just think a minute and put yourself in Ryan's place. I mean REALLY THINK ABOUT IT!!

HEY- GET OFF MY ASS!

I was NOT dating anyone but Ryan. There was no two timing.

My ex and I were close friends. I didn't think anything about most of what was going on. When I did start to get worried about it, I posted here and I do believe that most people said it was just peachy. SO I dismissed it. Ryan seemed fine with it, I asked him. (NOTE- considering his feelings) I trusted that he ment what he said when it was fine.

As for your question about how would I feel if he was friends with his ex, and she stayed over- I was fine with it. Hell, we all went out to dinner together when she came into town a few months ago.

As for the bus incident. I had no warning on that. I had no clue what the hell was going on with my ex. I hadn't seen him in a while, so I went to go sit down and talk to him. Find out what was new. We all had been burried down for summer finals.

When I caught the weird vibe between them, I had no idea what to do, and then my ex made his lovely parting comment.

The ONLY things I am guilty of is not looking critically at what was going on before hand and realizing what my ex was doing. I admit it, I had my head up my ass and assumed all was fine.

Then, because I still wasn't sure of what was going on, I got in an argument without knowing exactly what the issue was- other than I was just told he didn't want me to see my friend anymore. Which was self centered. It didn't occur to me that it was an intentional slap in the face- I really didn't think my ex would do that. Its still weird. But I said some things that were pretty bad, considering new guys territorial view point.

So yeah...emotionally/socially retarded, prolly. But I havn't had loads of boyfriends or experience to base guy behavior off of. I have only had these two boyfriends, in fact, and three other guy friends my entire life. Thats a semi excuse/explaination- but I still get that it doesn't cover it all. I screwed up.

GlitterPunk- I apologized for overreacting to his request, for not seeing what was going on, and for yelling at him before. Explained why I was so upset with him at first. Told him I didn't want to loose him, that I cared for him too much. Asked him what he wanted, and if we could work it out. I was over there for a couple hours. A lot of time passed with us just sitting there looking at each other.

He didn't ask for his key back, or give me any of my stuff over there...but I guess that is still an option at this point.

quote:Originally posted by Isabel:

Believe it or not, Ryan never said anything to me about their stuff or them, and I thought he was okay with it.

quote:Originally posted by Isabel:

Then my ex broke up with his gf, and started hanging around me a lot more. My bf didn't like it, and voiced his oppinion on the matter, and requested I back off of spending time with him.

quote:Originally posted by Isabel:

Ryan seemed fine with it, I asked him. (NOTE- considering his feelings) I trusted that he ment what he said when it was fine.

quote:Originally posted by Isabel:

Needless to say this did not go over well at all, and a few days later when I hadn't banished my ex from my life, ryan threw a hissy fit, and left.

quote:Originally posted by Isabel:

Ryan always said it was okay that I hung out with my ex.

quote:Originally posted by Isabel:

He didn't wanna go on a double date with the guy or hang out,

quote:Originally posted by Isabel:

I just didn't know how much it all bothered him.

quote:Originally posted by Isabel:

I swear there were looks passed. I know ryan was shocked as hell. I was kinda choking on the angry waves sent our way,

__________________________________

quote:Originally posted by Isabel:

I wasn't accepting my exs flirting...I didn't think it was flirting.

quote:Originally posted by Isabel:

My ex was always restricted to the couch tho, and we never did anything except the cuddling. My friend…was acting a little strange, and after that he got restricted to the couch too.

_________________________________

quote:Originally posted by Isabel:

I screwed up.

quote:Originally posted by Isabel:

should I really crawl back to himand apologize for being supportive of a friend when he was down?

quote:Originally posted by Isabel:

First off- look at the post subject "I FUCKED UP." I get that a lot of it was my fault.



quote:Originally posted by Isabel:

I didn't really do anything wrong.

quote:Originally posted by Isabel:

I screwed up.

quote:Originally posted by Isabel:

I should not have to give up a friend because of his insecurity.

quote:Originally posted by Isabel:

First off- look at the post subject "I FUCKED UP." I get that a lot of it was my fault.



quote:Originally posted by Isabel:

There was no two timing.

quote:Originally posted by Isabel:

Whats wrong with using him as a pillow while watching a movie?

quote:Originally posted by Isabel:

There was no two timing.

quote:Originally posted by Isabel:

And yeah, I did post about the cuddling, playful stuff that still went on between us.

quote:Originally posted by Isabel:

I screwed up.

quote:Originally posted by Isabel:

The ONLY things I am guilty of is not looking critically at what was going on before hand and realizing what my ex was doing.

___________________________________

quote:Originally posted by Isabel:

First off- look at the post subject "I FUCKED UP." I get that a lot of it was my fault.



quote:Originally posted by Isabel:

How do I apologize, without giving up everything?



_______________________________________

quote:Originally posted by Easy Going:

You obviously know that that is a problem. This is like some sort of relationship double think. You know exactly why Ryan left you even though he has not told you. You know exactly what your most egregious errors are, but you want to justify them in your head because you want to act that way. You rationalize them and act as if they can't be that bad or that you did not know it was really that way, or that Ryan did not tell you it bothered him so it must have been okay.

I agree that some are being a bit rough on you. I also think you are genuinely confused to some extent. But I think a lot of that is your fault and is caused by you wanting to have your cake and eat it too. I don't think you wanted to cheat on your BF, but that is not enough. I will agree with those that say your relationship is over, but it is not impossible to win him back. But I would not even try unless you can really get what happened.

-Easy



[This message has been edited by Easy Going (edited 09-04-2003).]

youre a fucking ho, get over it....youre one of these girls who will get with any man she can, who has no idea of the meaning of fidelity, and who has no common sense about other's feelings. If you really cared for your boyfriend and his feelings, you wouldnt spend ANY time alone with your ex....because trust me...all your Ex wants is to have sex with you.

quote:Originally posted by Isabel:

My ex was always restricted to the couch tho, and we never did anything except the cuddling. My friend…was acting a little strange, and after that he got restricted to the couch too.



My point exactly...youre just a whore, thats the long and short of it...

Easy Going, that is by far the coolest post I have ever seen. Well done. *applause*

Isabel, you are an idiot. Where the fuck did you think getting up and sitting with your ex on the bus and leaving your stuff with your boyfriend was going to get you? What the hell where you thinking? I couldn't even believe that part of the story, I had to read it again. How could you possibly think that using your ex as a pillow wasn't at least a little bit flirty? God, you're oblivious. I pity you.

Everyone here is right, you are one hundred percent in the wrong here. Don't even bother trying to defend yourself. You still haven't told us what you talked to your ex about, either.

Don't go back to your (ex) boyfriend until you actually believe you've done something wrong, you can't continue flirty one-on-one relationships with your exes and have closet space for them and cuddle with them. By now, it should be obvious this isn't ok. Seems to me, you're a bit on the slow side.

Sorry.

[This message has been edited by stephanina (edited 09-04-2003).]

man, if i were ryan i would have punched him and walked away. i would have been so hurt by it, i mean if my g/f ever did that to me i would be so hurt, not really pissed, i don't have the right, but i would be hurt, and all i would want her to know is that she hurt me. but let me tell you this, he didn't throw a hissy fit, yeah as some others have posted, he's insecure, me too. and i think i would have done the same thing, he told u how he fealt and u pretty-much said, well, i'm gonna take my ex over you. live with it.

Dammit couldnt be fucked reading though all the fucking moronic posts on this subject, most of u fuckers are saying the same thing 'Its her fault'. BULLSHIT!! Ok get this picture. I am an 18year old male with a 18year old gf. I keep in close contact with my ex's not because i want to get back with them but because they were part of my past and the good times from the past. My g/f now doesnt worry about it because she TRUSTS me and with good reason... we have been together for 6months now with no hassles(well cept some of the bedroom stuff but thats normal). She has an ex she belived to be in love with that calls her and talks to her and i dont get worried, because i know she wouldnt want to hurt me like that.

If u ask me Ryan was too demanding and didnt trust you. Friendship after a relationship can be one of the best around.... u know each others secrets and can confide in each other about things u might feal uncomfortable mentioning to ur current partner. Your ex came to u cause he knew this, and yeah maybe he was trying to get some but if u had no intentions then that should be all that matters. I have no intentions of getting back with ne of my ex's. Things went wrong thats y we parted.

If Ryan is insecure about u cheating on him then he is the one that needs help. Tell him how u feal, and its up to him to decide.. something like...

"I like/love you heeps and the reason we have this relationship is because i want to be with you. I have no intentions of getting back with (insert ex's name here). I want to be with you. I ask if u can find it in your heart to trust me as much as i trust you"

Something along those lines.. you dont want to end up saying something like "If u cant trust me then i guess were over" cause that will prolly end in heartache.

Amongst ppl i know a kiss on the forehead means 'I love you'. Dont threaten him, just ask nicely.

Also tell you ex that there is no chance of things starting up again, just to make things clear, and be careful bout ur actions around him(He might get the wrong message).

-Shadow of Silenz

[This message has been edited by ShadowV (edited 09-04-2003).]

^ You're insane.

quote:Originally posted by ShadowV:

[B]Dammit couldnt be fucked reading though all the fucking moronic posts on this subject, most of u fuckers are saying the same thing 'Its her fault'. BULLSHIT!! Ok get this picture. I am an 18year old male with a 18year old gf. I keep in close contact with my ex's not because i want to get back with them but because they were part of my past and the good times from the past. B]

That's the biggest load of shit I've ever heard! And I'm not just talking about the part between quotes.

Your 18...hahha, so. You don't know your ass from a hole in the ground. You obviously can't read either. She already admitted to being an airhead with no common sense. Then along you come....dopey doo daa mutherfukr and try and defend what SHE was an asshole about?? Do yourself a favor and STFU.

Holy crap, y'all are hard on Isabel. The girl's a bit capricious, but I don't see that she's done anything any guy wouldn't do.

If the situation were reversed, some might accuse Isabel of being jealous.

Kinda sorta parallels Mojo's situation (http://www.totse.com/bbs/Forum4/HTML/004149.html).

quote:Originally posted by deadlycindy:

Holy crap, y'all are hard on Isabel. The girl's a bit capricious, but I don't see that she's done anything any guy wouldn't do.

If the situation were reversed, some might accuse Isabel of being jealous.

Kinda sorta parallels Mojo's situation (http://www.totse.com/bbs/Forum4/HTML/004149.html).



I thought you would think that.

It's apples and oranges.

-Easy

Omg.... I just read everything and I'm speechless. Isabel, you are soooooo fucking clueless. Are you so spastic that you can't think things through before you do them? I mean, don't you think that cuddling with your ex so blatently in front of your bf was ok? Someone seriously just needs to slap you upside the head for about an hour.

Your common sense skills suck, I suggest you seriously improve it before you hurt someone else.

You got what you deserved.

Firstly, you never allowed for a strong foundation of trust to be built; there are some things you ARE NOT ALLOWED TO DO when you are in a relationship, and although Ryan respected you enough to abide by these laws, you did not return the favor.

These things would include:

1. LETTING OTHER MEN STAY IN YOUR FUCKING HOME. I mean jesus h. christ, are you that fucking dense?

2. Hanging out with your 'ex' when your boyfriend is not present. Granted this may be a little harsh and there can be leniancy in some cases, but when you are alone with him in your apartment, you fucking POLE VAULTED over the thin line.

By doing this shit you COMPLETELY violated whatever scraps of trust you had with your boyfriend. You OBVIOUSLY have no understanding of the male mind and therefore it might be a good idea to take a break from serious relationships until you can grasp the concept that: men that have no obligation to you (i.e. ex-boyfriends and random 'friends'), yet are allowed to stay in your dwelling and keep possessions there, are after SEX and nothing else. ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY KNOW YOU HAVE A BOYFRIEND. If you think these guys are hanging out with you simply because you have a great personality, I'm surprised you made it to college.

And I'm assuming what pushed him over the edge was when your ex BLATANTLY insulted his honor, and you did NOTHING to defend it. And on top of it all, you think the mistake you made was "not knowing Ryan was troubled by any of this," when in fact, you let other men stay over at your apartment, insulted your boyfriend by letting your ex say that shit to him, and betrayed his trust in a number of other ways. THESE ARE THE THINGS YOU DID WRONG. Even if Ryan was not troubled by these things, you should have enough fucking respect and decency not to "use your ex-boyfriend as a pillow." Think of it like this: If Ryan wouldn't want you doing it in front of him, YOU SURE AS FUCKING SHIT SHOULDN'T DO IT WHEN HE'S NOT THERE.

god damn...

Its amazing the stupidity involved in this. I'm just truly surprised at your ex bf Ryan. He sounds like a REALLY decent guy that any other intelligent, decent woman would appreciate more then anything especially over using an ex as a pillow.

Sorry :-/ she knows she's wrong, I dont have to insult her to prove it :-p

[This message has been edited by Panzer00000 (edited 09-06-2003).]

quote:Originally posted by Kikey_Kikeowitz:

Your ex is trying to steal you from your boyfriend. Without a fucking doubt.

I am astonished that the Ryan guy didn't take a baseball bat to your ex's skull after that shit.

Any normal red-blooded American male would have undoubtably killed the guy.

You're lucky that he left, and didn't do anything else. Then again, maybe he just hasn't thought of a proper revenge yet.

I must admit, however, that I can't believe you didn't see what your ex was doing.

thats exactly what my b/f would have said wow you two are pretty alike lol!

quote:Originally posted by Easy Going:

Yes you did. You were very wrong and I would have left you too. Your BF said it was okay for you to hang with your ex because 1. it really is not his call and 2. he has to trust you. But it not just trust you not to sleep with him. You have to bring things to a halt if this ex gets out of line. He was hitting on you, you knew it, your BF knew it, you allowed it to continue, you even allowed it to continue in front of your BF's face which probably disrespected and embarrassed him. NEVER EVER DISS A SIGNIFICANT OTHER LIKE THAT! Consider yourself lucky that your BF is not violent. Many would have kicked the shit out of your ex and a few would have given you your share too. If you want your BF back, cut your ex out of your life and crawl back on your hands and knees. If that is too much, move on and learn from this.

BTW, regarding your give up your friends and his insecurity comments: You are so out of line here. He did not ask you to give up a friend originally. This is not about insecurity about what might happen. This is about what did happen. What you allowed to happen right in front of his face. If this logic is what you are using when you talk to him, it is no wonder why he will not communicate with you. It would be pointless.

-Easy

your exactly right

quote:Originally posted by Panzer00000:

well Isabel hasnt posted recently...maybe she got Herpes? Bitch..

wtf? Back off. There's no reason for random insults. Be civil or go away.

^I agree. I think Isabel fucked up, but she is still a good member here and we need to leave the flames to B&M and SG.

-Easy

quote:Originally posted by Easy Going:

^I agree. I think Isabel fucked up, but she is still a good member here and we need to leave the flames to B&M and SG.

-Easy

Mmmhmm. She may have fucked up pretty badly (I do think so, though I'm trying to see it from her side too.), but she's cool, and I don't see her as a bad person. Hopefully the harsher amongst us didn't push her off totse.

-Infrared

I still can't even begin to comprehend how she could possibly think that she was in the right.

quote:Originally posted by Kikey_Kikeowitz:

I still can't even begin to comprehend how she could possibly think that she was in the right.

Don't take your knowledge for granted. Everyone has certain subjects which they know very little about, where they think things which everyone else knows is wrong. In her case, it's relationships. She's been told by a lot of people here, and probably others in the real world, to be independant, to not let a boyfriend tell her what to do, etc., and she followed those rules to the letter. Yes, it resulted in a mammoth mistake, and she deserved some of the shocked reactions she received, but enough is enough. The point is made. This is turning into a pile-on.

Thanks Spiffy... I think.

Sorry I havn't been on lately- but my keyboard broke and then I have had some other fun stuff- my favorite uncle is dying. He was put in the hospital two days ago for lukimia. Had it for a while and we never knew. It was in remission or whatever. But he apparently contracted west nile virus somehow, and that set off the lukimia. He is pretty weak anyway- had open heart surgery three or four months ago. They are talking about releasing him Tuesday. When it rains, it pours.

about letting my ex disrespect ryan or whatever- I didn't let anything happen. What was I supposed to do? chase him down the street and demand he apologize? He was leaving.

anyway, I am in the dog house with just about everyone. Forgot my best friends birthday this week. She is mad at me. My ex is mad at me for yelling about him antagonizing Ryan. My friend is mad at me for kicking him out of my appt and not letting him stay here anymore. My grandparents are mad at me for not calling about my uncle enough. And just about all members on totse seem to think I am a raving loony of a girl with no brain at all.

I dont know where Ryan stands in all this- we havn't talked since I went over to his place. He still has my favorite teddy bear and other stuff.

Right now, it sucks to be me. I am going to go attempt to hang a curtain rod and maybe I will fall and break my back- then I can be in a wheelchair, and live on the third floor of an apartment complex with no elevator.

Isabel, I hope you didn't get the wrong idea about what most of us were saying. I think the reason so many people seemed shocked about the stupidity involved was because we see you as smarter than that. Or that's how I feel at least. I think you fucked up hugely and I can't comprehend how you let it happen, but I don't think you're a complete dumbass because of this one thing.

quote:Originally posted by Isabel:

And just about all members on totse seem to think I am a raving loony of a girl with no brain at all.



I don't think that, and I'm sure most everyone here (that matters) feels the same way. We ALL fuck up from time to time, and hind sight is 20/20. It’s much easier for us to see what went wrong after it's all gone down. Just live and learn and I wish you the best.

It's real good to see you back.

-Easy