"We have chosen this approach... for the freedom of the Chechen people and there is no difference in where we die, and therefore we have decided to die here, in Moscow. And we will take with us the lives of hundreds of sinners." - Chechen dissident(speaking for the Chechens)

Original article here

The sinners happen to have been just some theater goers. Not military. Not government. Just civilians (mostly Russian, but some Germans, Americans and British).

And once again, the terrorists are Muslim. Oh, that must have been a typo. Muslim are a peaceful people.

Bullshit.

Knowing a bit about the Russian military and police force, I hope all those piece of shit hostage takers die a painful death.


[This message has been edited by Who's Your Daddy? (edited 10-24-2002).]

is the fact that they are civilian wich makes thier deaths have more value. and there migth be some high ranking ppl there wich the media doesnt wanna tell us about.
I thank em to present some entretainement that doesnt come from the USa.

The Tchetchenian Terrorists/Rebels are first and foremost fighting for themselves, under cover of fighting for Tchetchenian sovereignity (the actual cause, once but no longer). It�s true that they are supported from Islamist organisations, and that some Islamist terrorists fight along with them. Still, it has not been a war from a religious platform...

But perhaps it�s on it�s way to become part of the "Islamic Crusade" (the perverted version of Jihad).

The fact that some, or all, of the terrorists that now hold the hostages, have explosives mounted on themselves, and are threatening to blow themselves and the hostages to pieces, makes it more reminiscent of Hamas than of ETA (to make a clumsy comparition).

At this moment I hope the terrorists survives this drama, as the hostages most likely die with them if they are kiled, or put under too much pressure by weapons etc.

FoxLeonard

quote:

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Originally posted by kingenrage:

I thank em to present some entretainement that doesnt come from the USa.

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Keep some "thoughts" for yourself, please!

FoxLeonard

Those poor, misunderstood Checnians. I guess the best way to advance their cause would be to take 700 hostages, right..?

Russia tried invadin Afghanistan but they didnt succeed...chechens civilians go through a lot of brutality from Russians..

quote:

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Originally posted by Rash:
Russia tried invadin Afghanistan but they didnt succeed...chechens civilians go through a lot of brutality from Russians..

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Your analogy is not entirely correct. Afghanistan was at the time of the Soviet (not Russian) invansion a sovereign state. Chechenia has been a part of Russia since the Tsars ruled.

After the fall of the Soviet Union, the Chechenians (as many others) decided to break loose from Russia. They declared their independance in 1991.

Russia didn�t agree, and the hostilities escalated. Also inside Chechenia, as there was a fight for power among the freedom fighters from the very start.

Some of them also formed the most powerful group of those who became known as the "Russian Mafia". This in itself created even more trouble for Russia and its crumbling economy, as well as for its relations to Europe, where the "Russian Mafia" very fast became a significant factor of organised crime.

Even more important for Russia and its economy, was (and is) the oil in Chechenia (sounds familiar?!).

Russia went into Chechenia with troops in 1994 hoping to end the conflict fast. Instead they found themselves in a strategic situation similar to what happened in Afghanistan.

Still, the Chechenian people and government had enough after three years, and an agreement was made that Chechenia was to become a highly independant member of the Russian Federation. There�s good reason to believe that a majority of the Chechenian people were satisfied with this. But various groups among the freedom fighters were not. Some may have still believed in a free Chechenia, others had "private" reasons. And they all continued to fight, using terror and other means.

Somewhere along the line it seems that so called Islamist groups saw the opportunity to make Chechenia an "ally" in the perverted version of Jihad, and there we are today...

This is so shortened and simplified that it can�t be entirely complete or correct. So please fill in what I�ve missed and/or correct my faults.

Yes, there has been a lot of brutality towards civilians as well as towards (so called) freedom fighters, from Russian
soldiers. But this has not been ordered or sanctioned by the Russian government. Some of the military leaders responsible, were thrown out of the army, by Putin. Of little significance to the suffering Chechenians, yes! But still a vital part of the whole picture.

FoxLeonard

[This message has been edited by FoxLeonard (edited 10-25-2002).]

Great history lesson Fox, Thanks.

Nox

first off it's not tsars it's czars. also u spell chechnien chechneyn ok. also chechnya is jusy another excuse for Muslims to shoot guns... they should just come to america theer is no gun control here

quote:

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Originally posted by punkrawkerstonershit:
first off it's not tsars it's czars. also u spell chechnien chechneyn ok. also chechnya is jusy another excuse for Muslims to shoot guns... they should just come to america theer is no gun control here

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I�m fully aware that I made a strange mix of Swedish transcription and English transcription of the Russian language. I started correcting it, and my "instincts" made me repeat the mistake in the next paragraph, so I gave up, as I beleive it to be readable as it stands.

But thanks for telling me, as it could have had significance.

So let me return the favour and suggest you fix the key-shift on your key-board.

Wiecny kwiat wtadza! FoxLeonard

quote:

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Originally posted by punkrawkerstonershit:
first off it's not tsars it's czars.

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Not totally true. Both are correct, depending on which you version you choose to use. Other examples include, but are not limited to Peking/Bejing, Koran/Quran.

Nox

I was under the impression that "Tsar" was the East Russian version and "Czar" the west Russian version.

Is it something about the guy who shows his face - that he looks full of peace and warmth.

So strange i think that.

Peace Renegade,

Keep some "thoughts" for yourself, please!

Why? You share your "thoughts" I might share mine.

Why should they try to be independant if the belong to Russia?

Its like The native Americans rebeling Against the present gouvernement of USA.

how would that look?

on the other hand... Why dont they just Give thme the land and trade the oil and other things with them to boost thier economy.

If It is a Independant land now why does Russia have oil rigths? Or do they not?

Long live the Chechen Mujahideen.
Because of the Moscow theater gunmen More and more plp know about Chechnya and they will know more what russia is doing to these plp and for what Stopping terrorism my ass they are. How meany more chechen lives have to die before Russia the Main Terrorist in this war is stoped.

quote:

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Originally posted by kingenrage:
Keep some "thoughts" for yourself, please!

Why? You share your "thoughts" I might share mine.

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Would you consider it entertainment also if you and your family and friends were held hostage and most likely to die?!

quote:

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Why should they try to be independant if the belong to Russia?

Its like The native Americans rebeling Against the present gouvernement of USA.

how would that look?

on the other hand... Why dont they just Give thme the land and trade the oil and other things with them to boost thier economy.

If It is a Independant land now why does Russia have oil rigths? Or do they not?

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Chechnya was invaded by Russia some time in the 1850ies, after a long war, so they have not always been a part of Russia.

In that sense they can also be said to have a justifiable cause for their war for independence. As could be said if The Gathering of The Nations became more than a Pow-Wow...

Chechnya declared their independence, but Russia didn�t aknowledge it, so they are NOT
a sovereign state. They are still a part of Russia, and Russia therefore, naturally holds the rights of the oil from that area of itself...

FoxLeonard

Chechens were rebels before they were Islamists...

I smell a new Moderator coming straight from Sweden.

Seems a very knowledgable guy.

Peace Renegade,

I smell mucho symphaty,
if it was anyone i knew i would feel differnt. but since they were strangers and terrorists i didnt drop a tear. sometimes the good old fasion deplematic ways dont work so ppl have to use force. this is more intresting. It is a fun way to get out of everyday routine. I can laugh at other ppls problems like everyone else, I do have a heart, but also a black sence of humor. After 152 years of invasion Chechenya can consider itsself as a part of Russia. Diplomaticly they have nothing to say. Only terror seems to work now days

Oh yes killing innocent people is definitely the best way to show you just want to live peacefully. Murder is murder and that's it. Intentional killing of innocents is murder.