I don't say i'm against jews i also respect
jews they are rather hard workers and they
deserve their fortune but what makes me mad is
the problem of identity of jews
u find a jew who has the american nationality
french or whatever but when a mossad israeli officer
tells him to spy for israel he does it
with joy it's like the case of polard!!!
the american jewish CIA officer who
spyed for israel and was caught in 1994
frankly he was betraying his country
the problem with jews is that they don't feel
they are belonging to the nationality they have
in their passport
i think a good jew and there are many god jews who realised
this and i really respect them
judaisme is a relligion so u can be american and jew
and be faithfull to ur country even if israel told
u to do something against them
the righ place for jews is to stay in their original
country and claim for their rights
errors have been made against them but its not a reason
to make them leave their countries
and occupy others countries
one day an israelian official said tht if the tenssion
between Arabs and Israelis stops israel well be
autodestructed in 10 years for the simple reason
that israel is not an homogen society there are
polish jews
british jews french
arab jews ethiopian jews russian jews checkoslovakian etC....
so the isralis need constant tenssion with arabs
because even if arabs wanted peace the isaelies.Israeli officals
do not because there is so much rivalities beetween jews
themselves in
israel for instance when the peace process began in 1993 and
tenssion beetween
israelians and palestinians stoped for some time
some achkenas jews (european jews ) burned
a cynagog of (safardime) east and arab jews
many similar incidents occured during this peace
period
and safardime hates ethiopean falasha jews
ashkenase and safadimes hates russian jews
so if arrabs disapeared israelians will look for
another enemy because in state of war the people are unified
the best thing for them is to return to their countries
and keep their relligion ....
for instance did u know that during WW2
in switzerland there was a bank owner a letiowanian jew
who washed hitler money that he stoled from perssecuting
other jews even..his mother was dead by nazi forces in
letioania

in in 1940s many egyptian and irakian Jews reffused
to migrate to israel because they were wealthy and rich
all the oposite of the european jews who lost their
fortune during WW2 and migrated to israel
to convince them some Jews put bombs in egypt and Irak
to explode and kill iraki and egyptians Jews
then it told them that it's dangerous for them to stay
in 1942 a whole ring of jew saboteurs where
caught in egypt preparing to blow another cynagogue
but it was too late
later a mossad officer confirmed this ...
read

even if jews obtain mone and power i'm not jalous
but often it's done with dirty manners and not always
honestly it's this dishonnesty that made people around
the world hate the jews
for instance i'll take the moroccan as i'm moroccan
example in 1490s the last presence of
Arabs and jews in spain were perscuted by spanish
kings they found refuge in morocco in the other side of
mediteranian sea near jibal tar detroit
the sultan offered them refuge and helped them
but he ordered that they respect the kingdom rules
and laws what they actualy did was conspiring against him
and selling alcoholic drinks to muslims wich was forbidden
and high rate loans more than 100%
regardless of
the islamic laws that they should respect as hosts
this lead to a perssecussion against jews in morocco
so there is always a reason even chakespear wrote agains them
NOTE from 1912 to 1956 morocco was occupied by france
in 1940 France it self was occupied by Hitler
and there was the Hiter belonging Vichi French Gov
wich then controled the french colonies including
morocco the vichi gov asked all colonies to give them
jews to give them to hitler morocco,algeria and tUnis
wich all were arabs refused and hided jews
even the local population helped them to hide
while all european countries under Hitler
gave them hapilly that's why in Israel many
moroccan israelians still hang up the picture of the
king Mohamed 5 who ruled moroco during this period
and that's a historical truth so where is the real source
of antisemitism o antijew feeling (EUROPE) that's
why u feel guilty and help them to kill and persecute
palestinians but be sure jews don't forget what hapened
to them and one day the west will regret it.....


LOook all what i said is genuine instead of telling me it's not
real give me evidence dates articles to tell me i'm wrong
and most of what i said is said by israelians and western sources
so i'm objective because all sources i told are not arab
and writen by israelies or western pro israelians
so where is subjectivity try to give a material that denies what
i said and all what i said is tru and if u take some time
searching for it instead of prejidices u'll realise this


even cristianity in a period of history was considering all non cristians
and non believers as enemies even jews did it so it's not an islamic
act only.....
all relligions in the origine where prone to dominate others not only
islam but u say this because islam is the last of the 3 relligions
so LAST arrived FIrst served ....

ONE LAST THING I WISH TO CLOSE THE DISCUSSION
IN THIS POST I'M REALLY SAD THAT U INSULT AND DENIE
WHAT I SAID WITHOUT TAKING TIME TO CHECK THAT WHAT
I SAID IS TRUE DID U MAKE A REASEARCH
AND I'M ASKING U TO IMAGINE THIS SITUATION
WHAT IF SOMEONE TOOK UR HOUSE AND U CAN'T TAKE IT BACK
FROM HIM BY LAW PROCEDURES NOR TALKING AND U DON4T HAVE ANY
THING LEFT
1)will u leave ur right and cry like cowards?

2)try to take it by any mean ?wich would be ur right

well this 2nd option is called
resistance and actualy is what palestinian doing and
u dare calling terrorisme
beside UN condamned many times Israel for taking Palestinian
land and according to UN cnstitution texte every one has
the right to live in his land and resist legitmaly
to have it back
and don't tell me killing israeli children is a bad
act because evry house evry school where there are Israeli
children was a land of a palestinian farm house
etc...so Palestinian Own it and always according to
UN they have the right to have it back by resitance
and in every resitance there are some victims it's
the human nature to have the pride and to kee the dignity
it's like the french resistance during WW2 when french
resistant killed Gestapo officers and their famillies
to scare them this is the cost of freedom
please don't answer the question because simply every
human being like his Property
and will do anything to have it back if it's stollen so
i already know the answer but try to read some books
from time to time.
don't forget also that Actualy Israelians kill more
Palestinian Children than palestinian did
.and vengence is a natural human feeling

after all that i only have to say that Not all jews are faithful to their beliefs. there is a difference between a few corrupted jews and these fucking backwater cavemen who want to destroy all these that dont worship "Allah"

by the way. I forgot where i saw this or what the actual name was. But the former tribes of the arab nations who are now muslims used to be pagans themselves. and allah is a pagan like god. or the name allah comes from a pagan gods name. Not "Pagan" itself but a pagan like religion.

whats my point? i dont have one. Blow these fucking sand monkies back into the stoneage. oh wait, they are already there.

hey prince marchmant,

why don't you preach about the injustice in lebanon,

the 400,000 palestinian refugees, basically herded like cattle surrounded by troops with a shoot to kill agenda,

BECAUSE THEIR OWN PEOPLE DON'T WANT THEM TO BE INTEGRATED INTO "THEIR" SOCIETY,

and upset the political balance.

to LostMind->>
yes i'm moroccan muslim arab and
it's a source of pride of me
since TOTSE is a forum for disscussion
u can be aginst me or with me
but in any way u have the right
to insult many people who answered me
even critcising me were polite
1st of all arabs and moroccans are not
hillbillies for the simple reason
that befor the creation of USA
morocco had 1300 years of civilasiation
even if ur origines are european
ur ancestors will be probably criminals
banned in america or pirates
miserable italian or irish immigrants
getting away from hungeror maybe from
english persecution or simply
English criminals it means (USA population=rubish of the world)
i forgot also slaves(!!!)
so respect ur self and disclose ur location as i did
probably(USA)
the first non european country to recognize the
independance of USA was morocco in the 18th century
u can verify this with a simple web search
besides during history at any period there was
world power romans greeks french english now
USA before USA and USSR so there is no eternal
civilsation and USA will not last
as the superpower for ever and when it falls
it will be disatrous simply because
the replacing power will be certainly one of
many (not to say all the world) enemies in
the world since there no country USA is
not harmming!
i wish this is clear LostMind
in fact i understan when u don't disclose ur location
and hide in front of ur Computer screen it's easier
to insult others if u don't agree that's ur business
but don't insult
one more thing ALah is the Arabic name for God
like dieu in french means God
even Arabic Cristians say Alah
so respect God and if u r atheist respect others
beliefs......
IS IT CLEAR

now i'll answer the polite civilised people:

yes ur right (preying mantis)->>
land is owned by force that why i said when
i told u the west support israel simply because
the west got used to colonise and take others land by
force what u said is called Jungle Law the strong kills
the weak In fact i changed my mind :
since u say the force is what makes u own the land
that's what palestinian actualy do now
their land was taken by force
so they try to get it back by force
and i think they'll win
in the first intifada (palestinian revolution)
from 1986 to 1993
for each israelian dead 100 palestinian dead
now in the 2nd intifada for each Israelian dead
10 palestinian dead this last 1/10 ratio was the
same ratio of 1 US soldier dead to 10 Viet
dead and they kicked US soldiers ass
USA will not always protect Israel for ever
since no power lasts for ever
according to ur force philosophy :
congratulations to the palestinian martyre
who exploded and killed about 17 Isarelian
civil of course sharon will punish them and kill 100
or 150 but palestinians don't really care
they have nothing to loose more than their land
and dignity u know when an army face an enemy who
doesn't fear Death it'll loose
i'm patient if they don't get back their land by force in
20 years maybe in 100years maybe after the colapsing of
the west who knows i'm patient heheheheh
that's ur force philosophie and i totaly agree
with u ur definitly right ....

Britan has not the right to give a square inch of
palestine to Jews because Britain it self took palestine
by force why not giving them schotland instead
and it was not empty land since when british arrived there
were about 2.3 million palestinians
but according to (preying mantis) and i agree now
with him it's justifyed so stop condamning terrorist
(legitime resistance according to UN)
because it's the rule now.

Yes Israelians Promissed Arrafate to let him go and come
back after the arrab summit but before they promised him
to give him 1/4 o the land i din't before they promised
to do this to give that to stop colonisation blabla
they are not trusworthy so of course he retained the
lesson and decided not to trust him
if he left they'll probably bannish him and destroy his
house because killing him simlply will make palestinian
more agressif so they wan't to bannish him

Ok that's all keep polite when answering

Alah = God in arabic even cristian arabs say god
we say also Rab= lord
ancient pagan gods houbal laat ouza
(that al manal)

1300 years of civilization does not mean 1300 years of progress,

the africans have been here longer than anybody,

don't tell me they're at the apex of civilization.

"ur ancestors will be probably criminals
banned in america or pirates
miserable italian or irish immigrants"

if knowledge and the increase of it wouldn't be a sin in your religion you would realize that you are confusing america with australia.

"so respect ur self and disclose ur location as i did
probably(USA)"

i did tell you where i'm from,

i'm from a nowhere town, in a nowhere country, on a nowhere landmass, on a nowhere planet, in a nowhere solar system, from within a nowhere galaxy

filled with a shit load of ignorant self-centered pricks who would be the laughing stock of this universe,

"what do you mean i don't believe in god,
i kill for him everyday"

"many (not to say all the world) enemies in
the world since there no country USA is
not harmming!"

name one, and provide sources through your simple little web search as well,

opinions stated as fact are like assholes,

everybodies got one, doesn't mean we need to hear yours.

"IS IT CLEAR "

where did i say allah isn't god?

"congratulations to the palestinian martyre
who exploded and killed about 17 Isarelian
civil "

you are one sick fuck,

a wasted life for a wasted purpose, unless hate is something you find worthwhile.

that's right you're muslim, hate is worthwhile,

as your god teaches, all infidels must die.

"Britan has not the right to give a square inch of
palestine to Jews because Britain it self took palestine
by force why "

here's another place, just a little bit of forbidden knowledge might show you,

IT WASN'T THE FUCKING PALESTINIANS EITEHR JACKASS.

"Alah = God in arabic even cristian arabs say god
we say also Rab= lord
ancient pagan gods houbal laat ouza
(that al manal)"

just because the word has the same meaning, doesn't mean they are the same,

don't ever compare allah to the god i believe in.

times like this i wish it would be the christian god,

i'd love to see your suicide bombers in hell getting fucked by the 72 virgins with strap ons.

how can you justify suicide bombers,

did you see the video of the girl who killed herself at the restaraunt,

think about the life that could've been,

suicide bombers are not martyrs,

martyrs die for what they believe, they don't kill for what they believe,

killing for what you believe is an inquisitioner i believe, but that was mostly jews who went through that as well.

but the crusades should ring a bell.

maybe we should call the knights who slaughtered arabs by the thousands martyrs?

you know why i'm so hard on you prince,

if that is your real name,

is because you and every other fucking nut in that area,

jews included,

are acting like a bunch of goddamn 3 year olds,

what do you guys need a timeout,

i guess you're not old enough to take care of yourselves yet,

sovereignty given to you people a little too early,

how silly of us to expect you to soar, when you don't have wings yet.

i know what's up,

the intelligent ones left there to either become productive members of some other country, or so their children would have a chance at the life you ignorant fucks say is no good.

at least they'll live past fucking 20.

i got a great idea, every nation in the world will go back there and retake all their weapons back,

and then they can fight by taking their towels off their heads and whipping their enemies with it.

then they can really act like the kids they are,

it'll be like the boys locker room after 6th grade gym class.

and you are one forgetful idiot, or one two-faced fuck,

when you start off saying you don't support terrorism, then congratulate the suicide bomber.

if brains were dynamite you wouldn't have enough to blow your own fucking nose.

lostmind>>
Bill Clinton is from irish origines
and australia is like USA a land for bastards

Lebanon is not palestine if canada was occupied will u let them leave with u for ever even i they are europeans like u
at least in origines

ok 1300 years of civilisation there was time for progress i agree that progress stoped
nut r u really progressing?????
nothing is eternal u'll progress will stop one day

did u hear about UN condamnation of israel
from 1967 to now so who has the right

it's not me who said that land is taken by force read page 1 of the post

of course i'm happy i loath Israelians
there are only cowards killing civilians
and always crying about holocost they forgot
that hitler killed also russians muslims
in russia and yougoslavia
and all european nations not only jews
of course i'm happy that israelians
dye it's the right of palestinian to claim their rights by any mean including autobombing

i knew u can't disclose ur location
INSULT ME AS LONG AS U ARE HIDDEN
AS MUCH AS U COULD WHO CARES....
lostmind hehehehe lol

"Lebanon is not palestine if canada was occupied will u let them leave with u for ever even i they are europeans like u
at least in origines"

you really are a fuck,

my state borders canada, i go there frequently, and they come here frequently,

do you know how many refugees from bosnia we have living in my state?

we give them housing, help find them jobs, provide them with an education.

you don't know shit.

mankind must always progress we will become extinct.

we can't live on this planet forever, nor in this solar system, so if mankind plans on surviving progress can NEVER, EVER be halted.

"did u hear about UN condamnation of israel
from 1967 to now so who has the right"

the un has always been sympathetic to arabs, where do these countries get their oil from?

if the middle east wouldn't be the hub of energy for the world, would arafat get a seat on the UN?

i despise the un.

"there are only cowards killing civilians"

then you must hate palestinians as well, or is every israeli citizen a member of the IDF, bet you don't even know what the fuck that is do you?

perhaps if palestine had an organized military instead of terrorist groups, then the israeli's wouldn't be killing civilians,

civilian by the term means those not associated with government or military,

since arafat says no terrorist is under his control and palestine has no organized military,

aren't terrorists civilians?

okay fuck,

since it's such a big deal,

i'm from North Dakota, which, if a nation by itself, would be third most powerful nuclear nation in the world.

jamestown to be precise.

fuck you.

you want my address you fuck,

i've got a nice little ravine in my backyard, that's perfect for people nobody would miss anyway.

i'll even buy your fucking ticket.

Governments all around the world have one thing in common, that they work on their own agendas under the guise of doing what's best for the masses under their jurisdiction (or would control be the better word?). They may say that what they are doing is best for their people but is it all really true? Misinformation is key to protecting deals, treaties, missions of 'good or evil' that they feel are necessary but in reality have questionable motive.

People undergo this strange transformation when given the power and wealth of a nation to make decisions about what is best for the people. Bias and personal gain are sometimes a result. Relegious conviction may drive governments and people to do things that are humanely circumspect. The price to be paid is disfavour among other nations or war. One must ask if it's all really worth it?

As people don't we all deserve a place to call our home? Most of us have a country and many of us live in peace. Some of us can feel free to walk the streets, wearing what we choose to wear, speak or minds freely. Some of us can't do that without the threat of being shot on the spot, or our execution becoming the half-time show a football game. Does the taking of a life for any reason justify the ultimate relegious belief or government policy?

I for one am becoming quite alarmed at the pace in which the turmoil in the middle east is escalating. Arguments for both sides have merit and the killing is unjustified. I see the entire process in a simple anology: A hardware engineer and a software engineer are standing over a box both pointing to each other and shouting that the reason it doesn't work is the other persons fault. Both are so consumed with blaming the other person for why it doesn't work that neither take the moment to actually figure out what it is that's not working and putting their heads together to fix it. Especially when the problem is in reality a combination of things that each are responsible for. (a true story!)

This kind of dialog is not easy as actions in the middle east profess. The differing cultures of the peoples involved tend to drive a wedge between practical ideas and solutions. Again merits of the cultures are interpreted based upon the relative beliefs of the other. The key to overcomming this is to find common ground and building upon that. But things are always easier said than done. Can't we just open our eyes a little before we kill our race?

Look LostMind>>
preying mantis said in page 1 of this Post:

"No one 'owns' any land, it is occupied by
blood and sweat alone.
You win it, you keep it. Simple as that.
Ignore what the bible says,
its a book, not everyone belives
it so how can it be taken as gospel
truth?"
this what made me change my mind at
first i didn't aprove terrorisme
but when someone like u and preying mantis says
nasty things like that what do u suppose me
to react to tell u yes arrabs must dye
jews no ...

LostMind Frankly inspite of all ur insults
and all what u said i really don't care ,
personaly i don't know u and i don't realy
have anything against u !!!!!!
I only posted like any one here exposing
my point of view ....like anymember of this
post
i want also to correct u on several things
plz read it with ur brain and wash emotion away
and forget for 1 minute that u hate me

1st)i don't really like the Long Bearded
Islamist extremists
killing inocents and killing non muslims
of course there are texts in coran
telling us to kill non muslims and fight them
but don't forget in torah there are texts
telling jews to kill non jews
the pope during crusades told cristians to kill
arabs so it's not only our fault
Note torah was before Coran....
also the Long bearded cave man in afghanistane
for instance like benladen in the period
of sovieto afghan war USA exploited these
(now called terrorists)
Usa gave them stinger rockets training and money
and propaganda support (fighters fo freedom)
like in the movie Rambo3.
because simply Usa needed them to revenge vietnam
wich was a sovietic lure so it was part of
the cold war Game then but they got away from
usa control after the fall of the war of berline
and they use the methods that Usa teched them to fight
soviets so partialy u r responsible in a great deal
for their acts like Dr Frankestine created a monster and
let it down when his life was ruinned it was because of him
first


2nd)i'll list some historical facts about the west
in general did to harm other countries
did u hear of British Opium War in 17th century
in the name of free exchange Britain made a war
against chinese and took hong kong and
portugal macao just to make chinese accept english
goods including Opium can u deny this and now u keep
complaining about drugs.

America killed 5000000 viets it started the war
bye sinking it's own ship and accusing vietnamians(notherns)
to do it
Nothern Vietnamians were just trying to unify north
and south Vietnam and get rid of the south vietnamian
dicatator but Usa was lured into it
notherns were communist but were not a cerious treath
to USA so why killing innocents for nothing
u lost the war (not by the number of dead people)
but u lost morally .

America and soviet union considered the world
and south america especially as a chess game
u supported chili dicatator Penochie
against allendi communist president and
after 20 years u apologize ah it was an error
not to forget the Nickaragua and salvador civil wars.

America still persecutes native indians giving
them miserable reserves
but according to preying mantis it's normal
cause their land was taken by force

Ongola were Unita communists and the governement
aided by USA fought and many innocents were killed

the list is long very long .

3d)this question is both for preying mantis
and lost mind
if someone took ur Land ,country or house by force
what will be ur reaction?
give up or resist and be called terrorist

4)palestinians have nothing to lost
they lost their lands they are humiliated
so their only mean of resistance is suicide attacks
and i don't blame them
and yes they are martyrs why do they dye for
they dye to get their land back
and u say martyrs dye for something they have faith in
but they dye generaly while fighting
like the french resitence when they were dead they were
fighting and killing Nazis

the common thing between USA and Israel
they are both countries created by killing
others and both they began with colonisation and
setlements so why blaming them

seing them in hell fucked by virgins
wearing strapons (try to expose ur
sexual fantazies out in the sex and affection
post)

Note : in morocco most moroccan jews
who didn't immigrate to Israel support palestinian
including the 2 most known jew figures in
Morocco Assodin and Abraham Serfati
they even don't recognize Israel
they say we are proud of being Jews
but why taking others lands and kill
them.

LostMind I don't care if u insult me
or do whatever u want (personally i won't Insult
u cause i don't really know who u are)
and one more thing why u stereotype of islam
is wrong Bearded People Killing innocents
why not watch Bearded Jews one of them
said in jerusalem months ago that
a woman using mobile phone is a moral SIN
because she attract Males and encourge Adultary
by her sexy voice i suppose these are not bearded
cave Men because they are israelians....
cristian arabs say Alah........
if u don't consider Alah as the same as God
that's ur problem i'm not telling u to enter Islam
but respect others beliefs.Try also to be more
polite because u don't really know who i'm
to make me ur enemy...........
frankly i don't care but seing u nervous and
tempered is makes me feel pity for u really must
care about ur health and keep cold blooded

try also to read evry single word of my post
not to scan it...
see Ya

the girl has nothing to lose she didn't have any descent future under israeli occupation so killing them better for her

quote:

---

Originally posted by princecharmant1980:
Look LostMind>>
preying mantis said in page 1 of this Post:

"No one 'owns' any land, it is occupied by
blood and sweat alone.
You win it, you keep it. Simple as that.
Ignore what the bible says,
its a book, not everyone belives
it so how can it be taken as gospel
truth?"
this what made me change my mind at
first i didn't aprove terrorisme
but when someone like u and preying mantis says
nasty things like that what do u suppose me
to react to tell u yes arrabs must dye
jews no ...

---

Whats so nasty about what i said? Its true, you fight for something you deserve to keep it.

Anyway, if you're moroccan why do you give a shit about the palestinians? I hate most other european christian countries. I wouldn't argue for thier sake, waste of my time.

i don't hate you prince marchmant,

it was nice to see you post some facts for once, instead of replying what your emotions feel,

i am aware of most of those things,

except there's one thing you should consider, if the united states hadn't interfered in afghanistan,

morocco might well have become a russian state as well?

yes that action had terrible consequences for us,

but i think the consequences would've been much worse, had we done nothing.

i don't follow any religious texts, murder in the name of god should've been a red flag at the first instance it was mentioned,

sometimes putting your "faith" in your leaders is counterproductive, and mankind has paid for millenia because of this.

but as was stated by bill maher on politically incorrect,

killing for your belief in the 1500's is far cry from killing for your belief in the year 2002.

i was against the vietnam war, and the korean war,

some people say they were needed to show we'd stop the flood of communism,

personally i believe we should've learned from our own history the damage caused by a country split in two, and let the countries become united and THEN, use our influence to turn them democratic.

"America and soviet union considered the world
and south america especially as a chess game"

this is true, but had america not taken that stance to play the chess game,

there would be nuclear missiles in cuba, missiles which could wipe out the southern united states with no warning time really,

it would've shifted the balance of power and brought the united states to the knees of the soviet union,

and it would be a completely different world,

"America still persecutes native indians giving
them miserable reserves"

NOW YOU ARE ON CRACK,

the place where i work has offices on a reservation,

reservations are flooded with government grants,

the land is given freely to the native americans, along with brand new housing, once their house falls below livable standards, a brand new modern home is provided to them at no cost,

it is not the governments fault, nor it's peoples that they don't mow their lawns or bother to take care of their living establishments,

upon turning 18, as long as you can prove you have 1/4 indian blood in you, you recieve a check for $25,000,

what is done with these checks?

you can tell how old an indian is by how old their cars are from when they were brand new.

the schools on reservations are completely state of the art, allowing native american children the best opportunity it can, while at the same time providing government grants for those that wish to go to college.

an indian working for $8.00/hr on the reservation, makes more than an american citizen working for $8.00/hr, because they don't pay taxes.

there's a huge difference between native americans living on a reservation, and those living in society.

i'm sick of all this talk about innocent death,

those things are going to happen,

especially if the conflict is not between two governments.

how come nobody bitches about the civilians during WWI and WWII?

"if someone took ur Land ,country or house by force
what will be ur reaction?
give up or resist and be called terrorist"

resisting does not make you a terrorist, unless you first give up,

it depends on what the take over is like,

for years i've spoken about another revolution in america,

and i still think it may happen,

you see prince, there are some things i support my government on, and their are some things i don't.

i can see the good and the bad in everything.

just because of a few things my country did, that i disagreed with, i'm not going to become like a democrat and republican, and condemn my country for everything it does.

"palestinians have nothing to lost
they lost their lands they are humiliated
so their only mean of resistance is suicide attacks
and i don't blame them
and yes they are martyrs why do they dye for
they dye to get their land back"

how come they don't launch suicide attacks against jordan, iraq, iran, lebanon?

those nations were once called palestine as well,

doesn't lebanon have 400,000 palestinian refugees herded in what could be considered a concentration camp?

yet lebanon is sympathetic to the palestinians plight,

as long as it isn't lebanese land that has to be given up.

no you are wrong about martyrs, or have been taught a different definition,

if arafat is killed in ramallah in his headquarters,

he is a martyr,

if he puts a bomb on his belt and kill others,

he is no different than any other military soldier.

america had a martyr who was hung by the british,

before being hung it is rumored he said "i regret that i have only one life to give for my country"

he killed no british when he died, but he would've allowed the british kill him over and over again.

that is a martyr.

strapping a bomb to your chest and blowing up people who don't even know it's coming, and have no way of defending themselves,

is cowardly.

you know many former japanese pilots make "pilgrimages" to pearl harbor, because they are ashamed to this day of the way they attacked the united states.

it was part of japanese honor "to wake your enemy before killing him"
martyr

"noun [C]
a person who suffers greatly or is killed because of their political or religious beliefs, and is often admired because of it"

there is the literal defintion of martyr, notice the keyword in there IS killed, not does kill.


"the common thing between USA and Israel
they are both countries created by killing
others and both they began with colonisation and
setlements so why blaming them"

that is not common between us and israel,

we were being dictated to and taxed by an empire on the other side of the world, who had no idea of what the colonies were like.

"the girl has nothing to lose she didn't have any descent future under israeli occupation so killing them better for her"

had arafat followed the cease fire, had arafat agreed to the peace settlement in camp david, which is the exact same settlement offered by the saudi's, had arafat taken full advantage of the seat on the united nations, and set up a palestinian government,

the girl would've had a life, a family,

A GODDAMN FUTURE.

remember the israeli's are quite willing to let a palestinian flag fly over eastern jerusalem,

but it seems everytime israel agrees to new palestinian demands, palestine throws another one at them,

remember israel pulled completely out of palestinian land when the the cease fire was called for the by the world pretty much,

what did arafat do?

nothing, 3 more terrorist attacks in israel,

does arafat condemn them?

no,

does arafat call for a cease fire?

no,

not until the tanks are outside his window does he even consider "discussing the terms of the cease fire",

those are his exact words, and not even to his people, so what happens?

more terrorist attacks,

have you read the news today, where the paper controlled by the palestinian authority called for attacks not only on israeli targets, but on american targets,

arafat says to stop printing that because he doesn't want to strain american relations,

he still doesn't call for a cease fire,

and to think that israel is going to continue occupying those lands after he calls a cease fire is completely ludicrous,

because ANY support the israeli's had would be gone,

don't get me wrong i am sympathetic to the palestinian people,

whoever is right or wrong in the issue is moot because the event is almost 60 years old,

it is time to start somewhere, it is time to put down your weapons and develop a society, and see what develops out of it,

it is time for palestine itself to oust arafat, and put in somebody who will give them more than a chance,

but a beginning, and that's a far better thing than any ending could ever be.

you tell me to be more open minded, and more critical of my leaders.

i ask you to do the same.

do you know what the only difference is between the saudi plan, and the camp david plan?

two items were ommitted from the saudi plan that were included in the camp david plan,

at the request of the israeli's,

the saudi plan has to be the only peace plan where neither side involved in it were present.

but i would've loved to have seen a jew there.

anyways the two items ommitted,

1) unconditional peace, israel's right to exist would be recognized.
2) palestinians would make no further claims for land, after the borders were established and agreed upon.

tell me which of those arafat had a problem with?

the right of israel to exist?
or the border conditions of the treaty which arafat would agree to as well?

you blame israel?

i blame arafat, how many palestinians would be alive today had arafat agreed,

by just agreeing to peace talks arafat won the nobel peace prize in 1993,

to bad in 9 years he has been unable to agree to any peace at all,

that would include a nation of israel.

and i don't stereotype muslims or anybody,

unless you fit the stereotype.

i would not consider saying the same of kareem abdul-jabbar,

or mohammed ali,

and i do respect others beliefs, when they don't take them to literally,

i do believe in god,

but being a deist, if he does have anything planned for me,

he will take the time to tell me himself, and instead of having me kill infidels, he'll go have a meeting with them first.

you must believe god to be all powerful, right?

why would he allow something or someone to exist that was contradictory to what he has planned,

unless they're not, and only contradictory to what your leaders and clerics have planned?

becoming a priest or cleric in any religion is not a calling from god, but a need for power in man.

don't believe me, you have clerics preaching death to your fellow man for a different belief, or a different ideal,

we have clerics preaching the downfall of sodom and gamorrah for sexual deviance, while at the same time fondling the altar boys nuts,

religion is not god, nor is it the word of god, nor are religious leaders men of god.

Hi Lostmind I'm really Happy that u changed
the way of talking now we disscuss like two adults away from emotions and only using our brains i'm aware that In Usa u have things u don't know about arabs and muslims we have also some ignorence about u but
the facts i satated about imperialism are from western sources these last days most europeans condamned Sharon a Japanese burned himself just to condamn sharon atitude
european peace deleguation went to support Araffate how in the hell can he keep the peace while his life is in danger u see my point a friend of mine in spain reported
a lot of public strikes for palestinian cause
i have no hate toward jews nor wise israelians
the land can be shared after all but
not with the presence of someone like sharon who participated in lebanon war and killed a lot of innocents there are some wis israelians and Jews and about 600000 jews in israel including Shemon Peres and David Levy are from morocco and still faithfull to their mother land and want's peace not of all them but most
i still can't agree about somethings u said but at least in this climat we can argue like to responsible human beings
even by e mail if u want all better here fore the good of all the totse community

thank you

one more thing morocco was never to be communist!!! even without ur help

i don't put faith on our politicians
and especially polititians because frankly i consider them as traitors and bribed tipped polititians u see my point
in fact i don't like all politicians
all what i say is my convictions and after taking to much time to read from pros and cons sources ...

actualy i mentionned canada because canada is ur neighbours just as an analogie with lebanon wich is palestine neighbour
the comparison is not fair for several
things bosnia is very far from u
in most time neighbour countries are enemies or at least there is a kind of rivallity it is true in the case of canada cause i visited it once and some canadian friends complained about america swalowing them (it's not their enemy but there is a competition)

there is also the fact that lebanon it self needs help it has not the power nor the money of USA and further more there are the rivality i mentionned beetween neighbour countries and lebaneses thinks that israel trie to slip from the historical responsability of palestinian refugees and make lebanon accept them while it's not his
responsabilitty

take this into consideration

holy shit!?!?

now that's some good posting marchment,

not as one sided as it was before,

or shall i say, how you came off before

there's an easy peace here in the western hemisphere,

you're right about the competition, but there's nothing wrong with that.

kennedy said in the 60's that an attack on ANY western hemisphere country is an attack on the united states.

the united states goal is not to take over any country, but to allow EVERY country the ability to determine its own destiny, with our help from aggressors if need be.

basically our ideal for every country, is that that countries citizens have a say in government, especially who leads them.

there are a million different forms of democracy,

a lot of our trouble in the middle east comes from what, like you said, you don't trust your politicians, so you see the united states making deals with them, which makes us look bad.

believe me, that's not our intention, we would love to see the people uprise, but to keep the stability in the region, we agree with the leaders to keep peace, and maintain stability.

which is why europe stays out of the way so much,

until you become a direct threat to us, which makes us look bad as well, because we only care about our own interests,

but you guys have us between a rock and a hard place, no matter what the united states does, it's damned if we do, damned if we don't.

i agree with you sharon is not the man to lead israel to peace,

but barak's career ended with the concessions he made to palestine, and brought in a hard liner who has been dealing with arafat, since arafat was around, sharon.

i am in favor of benjamin netanyahu being prime minister,

tell me if this is such a bad idea,

this is his plan, and if the motherfucker was a us citizen i'd be voting for him in 2008,

he wants to exile arafat, hold PUBLIC elections monitored by israel, or some un authority,

following the elections, israel would pull out to it's 1967 borders, which conflicts with some jewish settlements that have stretched across those boundaries,

but would the palestinians mind having some of their land in israel back as well?

jerusalem would be shared capital between both countries,

israeli flag flying over western jerusalem, palestinian flag flying over east jerusalem,

israel and palestine would share a kind of canadian us border,

where israeli citizens living in palestinian land would not have a say in palestinian politics, but could still vote in israel,

and palestinians living in israel would have no say in israeli politics, but would be free to cross the border, as if it wasn't even there, to vote in palestine.

tell me what is wrong with that peace plan?

peace is there, a beneficial peace for both people,

i heard speculation today that the reason the peace process is failing so miserably, is because of saddam hussein,

saddam knowing he was next on our hit list, used his terrorist influence to throw a monkey wrench in the peace process, while israel was pulled out and all the arab nations gathered together, with terrorist representatives.

i didn't know how much creedence to put into that right away,

until i heard today that hussein is calling on the arab nations to use oil as a weapon against israel and it's western allies.

the repercussions from that kind of political warfare, could very well spell the end of every regime in the middle east, and turn whoever initiates it immediately into the next communist russia, hitler, or napoleon,

which is something the united states and most european nations will not stand for, the dictation of world politics by a people solely because they have a hold on the energy supply,

don't think russia or china would stand by and let something like that happen either.

and like i said i'm not religious,

but the extremely ironic part is that all the pieces of biblical prophecy are coming together swiftly,

peace will happen and if the bible is correct, at that moment we have 7years.

3.5 years into it the arabs will invade israel, russia will then sieze this opportunity of depleted forces throughout the region to invade themselves,

they would be met by an israeli-nato military force bent on protecting the freedom of israel, now looking to maintain the stability in the region as the arabs will ally themselves with israel and the west in a completely unexpected move,

the chinese will not be left out either, they will cross the with a 250 million man army(direct biblical quote), check china's military stats...

and the armies of the world will come together in a place i'm sure you've heard of,

mount megido,

which in hebrew is pronounced har-magedon.

i'm a skeptic, but that's some pretty ironic shit to just overlook,

to even just get the world affiliations and power correct like that 2000+ years ago.

i guess we'll see 3 1/2 years after the peace initiative finally does go through,

if it does.

Hi again Lost Mind

ok about native americans if every thing
allright for them recently
don't deny that they were persecuted
only years ago well i'll forget this matter
since u explained
i think in fact that ignorence is
our enemy so i suggest that i'll tell u what
i know (facts) and u do the same just to clarify
and get rid of mutual stereotypes


with this new climat of understanding
read this
additional answers
and A litle reminder about the peace process
from 1993

1)Arrafat and Israeli Prime Ministry
Isaac Rabin
agreed about the Peace process

2)the protocol of israel withdraw
was divided into steps

3)the Palestinian zone was divided
and at each step israel will give a part
and retire it's troops and handle it to
the new formed palestinian authorithy
police forces (trained by USA,France,Egypt
and Jordani).

until now every thing is going great
and no problem
but from 1995 the extreme israelian right
movements (zionists ) calling for extermination
of Arabs and (i don't lye about it )
u can ask israelians if u know them
about it ....
started to call Rabin as traitor giving
up the great israel to arabs (they actually call
them snakes and scorpions race)!!!!!!
the extreme right news papers described Rabin of
trahison and cowardry until one young fanatic
Jew came and murdered him with exploding
bullets 2 weeks before Rabin Death.
Rabin said that Isarael
will return the golan lands to syria as dictated
bu UN even if he didn't signe peace process with
syria.He also was ready to
get rid of jew setlments (colons) in palestinian
lands (actualy less 1967 land)
to palestinian and to give them house inside Israel
most colons are from right political movements
(long bearded religious zionists )
u didn't answer me about the long bearded jew
i mentioned b4 hehehe ok forget it
(no comments i think every thing is clear)
i don't give my opinions
but state facts

rabin death (1996)


4)after rabin came his foreign minister to replace him
until elections the morococcan originate foreign minister
(Shemon Peres ) became prime minister at first he made a
coalition governement with right so although he
was ready for peace his left gov was a minority
the problems began with him :
a)he refused to dementel setlements in
palestinian zones that must be returned
according to peace process .
b)he latened the scaddjual of withrawal
he often sieged palestinian zones and
did not do any thing to stop
jew colons from killing palestinian
in 1996 even before peres one of these colons
mashine gunned and killed 60 muslims
while they were praying
under shemon peres rule arabs were told
that he is silly he didn't do it in puropose
he isn't responsible for his acts and was retained
in psychiatry (but do a responsible country
give gun license to a silly?????!!!!)

5)the earlly signs of the late scadjual
is Hammas bombings (note that hamas
has nothing to do with fatah nr olp of
yasser arrafate and was actually created
by Israel in 1972 to split Palestinian
movements in 1975 to 1980 Hammas
was killing olp palestinians
but like USA lost control over
Afgans Israel lost control over
Hammas....
(the split to rule principle is old but dangerous)

6)the worst peres did actually was to bomb
a lebanese (south lebanon )
refugees and UN camp killing nearly 200
including UN staff (irish staff and norway stuff)
and many civilians he later said that he tought
it was a hezbolah camp but many eye witnesses
and a radio signal capted showed that the israelians
knew the target they were targetting and capted
irect orders to shoot it.


7)he did this to gain elections wich was favorable for
the right movements althou he lost and the winner
was the lecood man Benjamin Natanyahoo
in 1997 he literraly stoped all withrawals
he concluded many other agreements
were Arafat Gave up many territories
and sacrified many lands for peace
(important note Natanyahoo was one
of the men who called
rabin traitor in a speech
3 days before his death)
but arafat could not let down east jerusalem
as a capital and leave the west to jews he wanted
only west for it's arab cristian and islamic sites
but natanyahoo refused and freezed all agreements

8)after natanyahoo came Ehod Barak who for
political coalition reasons with his weak left
governement coalition with extreme zionists
freezed a great deal of the peace process of course
during this period the deseperate Palestinians
not seing israelians seriously into peace began
and hamas striked and israelians punished
palestinian it was also the period of retiring israeli
troops from south lebanon.

9)then began this violence in 2000 when
sharon head of Lecode party after
nataniaho who resigned from lecod leadership
said that there is no palestine and denyed
all agreements and said he does not agree
on oslo and 1993 agreements
well Sharon Began when he visited
the Al Qods Mosquee (u know it's asigne of
non respect that a non muslim visit a
muslim worshiping place )
this led to this tention with offencive and
couter offencive
and under sharon (who killed thousands during
lebanese war)
and was reported that he killed a pregnant
woman during the 1967 war by stubbing her in the
stomach what peace can u do with such a fanatic
a religious who is following Long bearded
jew religious men describing arabs as snakes and
scorpions


if u ask the Israeli Palestinian (Peace Now association)
u'll see that what i said about the israelian
right movements is right
u know when someone want's to exterminate u
what u supposed to do
of course they don't let u know this in
USA becuse if u try too investigate u
will find A lot of jew investisments
in TV and NEWs
(news papers and TV news channels)+entaritement
industry they r not all americans (like murdoch )
but most are jews and they are part
of the Jewish israelian lobby in US congress
so i don't think CNN is objective
recently a group of left movment journalists
visited an israeli millitary operation
they were banned from filmming
(arrmy banning ) one of them took
secret images of israelian hitting children and
scaring famillies and they were broadcasted
in the 2nd israelian TV u know what sharon did
he banned all tvs to millitary zone
did they tell u in USA that Israeli
soldiers broadcasted Pornfilms when they
took control over Palestinian TVs
in a tim that children are waken and
waiting for cartoons did they tell u that
i don't think that
well that is the kind of mutuall
ignorance i wan't to avoid
and please read this and try to find out
the truth ur self
and take from pros and cons sources
not only from ur sources but from
european arab palestinian there are
also israelian trust worthy sources
THIS IS THE MAIN PROBLEM

USA still gave no evidences about 9/11
attacks evidences she promessed

one more thing
i don't expect u to hate ur country but i
expect u to see the truth to try to improve
ur country morally and technologicaly
i dunno have nothing against developement
but u must improve ur country morals u know the bases of usa were liberty freedom
human rights this kindaf stuffs

some interesting stuff there i didn't know the full details on,

and yes, native americans were treated horribly

but if that's one thing the united states is good at, it's retribution

while we are bombing afghanistan we are at the same time dropping food, and have charities set up to help afghanistan,

are you aware that one school here, i think the 6th grade class had some fundraiser, and raised like 1 million dollars(i forget the actual dollar amount, but it was surprising) to go for the buying of school books and supplies for afghanistan,

following wwII after the nuclear attacks on hiroshima and nagasaki, we literally rebuilt that country, provided all the money necessary to put japan back in a stable and progressive economic position,

now you're points
1) that's how arafat won the nobel peace prize and assured palestine representation at the united nations.

2-6) true, but you have to understand, the israeli's were forcibly removed from that land, they believe they have more of a right to it than anybody,

since, jerusalem, bethlehem, and numerous cities there were started as jewish cities dating back to the time of moses this was called the great dispersal,

i don't know how familiar you are with biblical text, as i am rather ignorant about koran text, except that which i hear quoted, which is all i really speculate on,

but anyways, it is written in biblical text that as punishment for not accepting christ as the son of god, the jews were to be thrown out of their homeland and dispersed to every corner of the earth in which they would be persecuted until the time of the gentiles was over in the holy land and they could return.

the gentiles(christians) controlled that land from the time the jews left until the gentiles gave it back to them, it was never palestinian land either,

can you at least see that point, just because you live somewhere, does not mean you control it,

and in 1948 when the land was being divided it was established that israel and palestine would be two nations co-existing with each other,

the israeli's were all for it, the palestinians said no that they wanted it all, and refused to share the land,

this led to chaos, since the palestinian land was in limbo, arab nations moved in to take it over, namely jordan,

did jordan give the palestinian people it's own country?

hell no, that was jordanian territory until israel took it in 1967, and in a very real sense liberated the palestinian people to give them a position where they could have their own state again.

had this not happened, palestinians would still be living under jordanian dictatorship, probably herded like cattle the same way they are in lebanon,

and there would be no talk at all of a palestinian state as there wasn't from 1948-1967,

would palestinian terrorists be bombing jordan?

hell no, every arab nation in the region would've called for the eradication of the palestinians,

this is western and far eastern historically documented as fact,

i don't know how it is reflected there, but one of the joys of a free press is that the government does not control how the news is reported.

netanyahu had those stances, as a political leader reflecting what his people wanted, i think he's matured quite a bit since then, at least it appears so in recent talks,

and it's a shame that barak ruined his career with the concessions to palestine, i was anticipating the 7 year countdown with that peace settlement that arafat refused.

it is because of this that the hardliner sharon was elected, had arafat agreed it would've all been moot.

the usa had provided evidence about 9-11, just not publicly,

we have a different criminal system here than you do,

evidence in criminal cases is rarely public material until the time of the trial, only those that need to know will know,

a lot of your people may not know which is why there is the feeling there is,

but your governments do know, which is why we got the support we did.

"but u must improve ur country morals u know the bases of usa were liberty freedom
human rights this kindaf stuffs"

hey,

amen to that in any culture,

i don't know how morocco is set up, but if you ever get the chance to come to america,

you will find that despite what a lot of people say,

we aren't that bad, and generally have the best interests of all people in mind,

sure we do things that suit our interests, but we never do things at the expense of anothers cultures identity,

being a land of immigrants, holding onto our cultural identity is one of the things that makes us great.

and if you are the type of person who can apply yourself, and work hard,

everything this country has to offer will be laid out before you.

i used to be what i call a "teenangster", hating the government, wondering what kind of future i was going to have and disliking the uncertainty of the future.

as i've aged, i realize that nobody owes me anything, and if i want something, i can't expect people to bend over backwards for me,

i can't expect to throw fits to get my way,

i have to apply myself, with a little desire and motivation,

and now i am what you would call, a capitalist pig.

we have our flaws, but our strengths far make up for our weaknesses,

and america is like a close knit family, we have our sibling squabbles, but come to the defense of our family in the face of threats or danger,

one of things i've speculated on why we are disliked so much,

is the last 10 years, we've had nothing to worry about, our biggest worries were did oj or didn't he,

did bill or didn't he,

did conditt or didn't he,

that was all our country had to worry about, which is really trivial, but i can see where dislike and jealousy for that can come from, especially in poverty ridden nations where it appears we do nothing.

bravo princecharmant1980!!!!!

klak klap klap

tr0g, how can you admire the jews. They are building a monopoly --> unfair traiding like the shit microsoft did. They think they are some better race and the rest of the world stinks.

The jews are fuckin dangerous and NEED to be taken out.

Why else would the : OLD EGYPTIANS, ROMANS, GREEKS, CHRISTINAS, MUSLIMS, NAZI'S ...... and so forth wanna destroy the jews. Cause they simply just take all your money and try to manipulate you. How do you think they could have gotten such a huge army in such a short time. The manipulate amerika. Amerika is under jewish control. Belive it or not.

I ain't no nazi but the jews are a threat. The only reason that shit on 9/11 happend was because amerika is being run by jews.

Fuck the only sensable resons in this matter is to nuke that GODDAMN ISRAEL. Fuckin holy land my foot. godforgotten stinkin urinesoaked hellhole desert. Yeah let them come back to EUROPA. We'll show them OUR hospitality. Synagogs are allready burning all over France, Germany, Belgium, ....

Ooooops, sorry about that last post. I overreacted a bit about nuking ALL jews.

Kinda let myselfe carried away.

I don't hate anyone (exept the extremist[x])
(where x is a religion or group or movement like zionism or somethin)

But what i hate about the whole palestine/israeli conflict is that no-one comes between them.

Take yugoslavia for instance (I'm from yugoslavia). We were defending ourselves from albanian terroroist. We did use tanks and airplanes against civilians I do admit and I ain't proud of that. So one day the un decides do bomb us.

Now Israel is doing somthing much worse to the palestininans (for more than 60 years) than what we did to the albanians for just a couple of months. How come the un and amerika aren't doing anything about that?
Think about it. The jews have a lot of manipulating powers.

quote:

---

Originally posted by princecharmant1980:
i'm not against peace but israel is the one who began this war when ariel sharon israeli prime minister from the right anti arab political current visited the jerusalem sacred mosquee

---

2 things wrong with this. (1) HE had permission from the head of the mosque (the Islamic leader) it was not a suprise visit. Regardless of why he was there, he had a right to visit it, expecially after applying and being grated the permission by the proper religous authorities

quote:

---

he pretends that the jewish
temple was there but until now all archeological search there found only islamic turkish and roman stuff no evidence of hebrew presence there

---

You can't be that slow. I refuse to believe it. You;re just telling what you knwo are lies now.
(1) It is not sharon but the entire world who say the Temple was there. That is why it is calle dth etemple mount.
(2) It is documented in the torah AND Koran
(3) Umm... that big wall against it ? The wetsern wall ? Umm... how can you ignore that ??? Sorry but you need to be more then blind to see an wall of a building and say the building does not exists.

quote:

---

so he is who began
and besides it's european who were the most
antisemist durin 19th to 20th century so if an israelian state must exeist it must be in Germany who maltreated the jews not in the palestinian arabic soil the poooooor palestinian who never had problems with jews...!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

---

1) Israel is the historic homeland of the jewish people. That is fact. Again look at your bible, Koran etc.
2) Look at the archiological evidence (your claims before are absurd and have no basis in fact or reality)
3) Arabic soil ? Since when as it been arabic soil ? It was BRitish soil before it was ISraeli. There has never been a palistinian state. Not it all the history of earth.
4) They never harmed the Jews ? You sure ? What about um,mm the INVASION after Israel was declaire a state by the UN ? All the arab nations decided to just kill the jews and divide up the land. That was peaceful hey ? Or the yom kippur war. When they attacked Israel durring the holist day od the year when almost all jews around the world and in Israel were praying in shule and fasting (not eating or drinking for 24 hours).

All the territories Israel got were a result of winning the wars imposed on them when they were attacked by land hungry Arabs who wanted to get rid of them (as you do, saying send them to Germany).

ou also seem to want to get rid of all the Jews, and destroy the state. This is very different from wanting a palastinian state. This is why Israel can't trust you. Consession after cionsession was made. Always broken by the palastinian side (If you agree I'd be happy blamming it on Arrafat who was just greedy).

I think a palastinian state can and should exist BUT does not need to be half of Israel (60% of Jordan's population is made up of palastinians... why not ask for some land from Jordan ?) ISrael gave back soem land as a good will gestore to Jordan... perhaps Jordan should give some to a new PA state, and Israel should give some, and there should be a buffer zone until such time as commerce etc means people truly do live in peace with their neighbors.

At any rate asking for Jerusalem (a city built by a Jewish King and th most important thing in Judaism after God) is just stupid. Thats the car arafat used to keep negotiations from closing. Asking for all of Israel is just insane.

I don't suppose this makes any difference to your opinion, but please don't make up facts to brain wash the rest of totse. REal facts are fine, and encouraged. Made up rubbish... is not.