I have read many peoples different views on the events of september the 11th and their opinions of the actions america took after this and there have been many arguments about a few things.

here is my opinion and please tell me if u disagree and why.

1) America fought back against "terrorism" because there was no country for it to fight back against because Afganistan is innocent except for harbouring these criminals.

2) America is getting involved because it has been attacked!!! when some1 says america is being a bully, they cant be serious, o.k so america has attacked other countires in the past but their have been reasons. (hiroshima was needed to demonstarte their resources and end a war which caused millions of deaths and would have aused more if the war wasnt ended)

3) we should all be thankfull for american intervention. i am british but i belive that if america hadnt involved itself in many wars, maybe we wouldnt be living in the same way.
(Britain almost lost WW2 until america entered the war) and this applied to other times that america had used their force against another country.

There has always been a reason.

Whether america had become involved in a war because it needed resources or because it had been attacked, it has always had a reason.

Look at it this way, if you had been hit and attacked and believed that this attacker had intended to destroy you, are you going to sit back and let it pass?

If there is anything i have missed please tell me cause i think i have drifted off my point at the end.

Waiting for ur views

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G

They are good and bad, it is good they reacted militarily to the murder of thousands of their innocent citizens and its bad that it is being carried farther then it should.

id say that they, only react when its only in thier best intrests. look at the whole timor thing compared to the whole serbia thingy. (memory blank). they were very quick to bomb the ;latter because serbia could disapear off the map and america would take a while to realise, but the same thing was happening in east timor, but america did not get involved because of its ties to indonesia. its like that throughout history. they will only do things that are in their intrests.

i think america does a very good job at looking after its own intrests (third world labour, kept third world, putting up dictators, etc etc), but very rarely acts out of any compassion (if at all).

ok, i see your point about amerca acting in its own interests, but itsnt that what every country does?

To be fair, i think that america is doing what every other country is.

Why does a country have allies?

To become more stable and gain more trade links to improve its economy and stauture in the world.

Why does a country have enemies?

To defend its self against annihilation or to gain land, wealth etc if it the attacking country.

America is acting in its own interests but so is every country, its just that america has more power to do so and it is more obvious.

Please, correct me if i am wrong, but name one country that hasnt acted in its own iterests in an action it has taken.

all countries try to further thier own wealth and power, but none so aggresivly as america. they have been involved in more international conflicts than any other country, and have been in almost every war this century. russia has lots of power, yet there actions are not as 'obvious'.

staying with the timor thing, australia helped them for no benift to themselves. actually, as a result, their relations with indonesia are at an all time low.

that is not the only time in history.

Also america is the land of the free where all (most) information is shared to the public via the media. Do most of you even know where Timor is? No, so why do you care whats going on there or what the problems are.

Point is that America is seen to be poking their fingers in most of the pies while the russians and indonisians just get on with it.

Now try telling me seriously that you'd rather that america did actually listen to you and pull out their involvement from various 'hotspots' in the world. Watch the world burn while fanatical arabs kill you in your sllep, the chinese wring their hands gleefully while tracking their nukes over your cities and the africans commit genocide down to the last man.

I think the big issue that people tend to over look here is the reason.

Not a single person ive spoken, who supports America, knows why osama did what he did.

This was not like a a stranger walking up to someone in the street and hitting him.

This was like a school child who had been kicked around and treated like crap for 50-60 years turing round and killing the bully and the bullys family.

I agree what was done is in my opinion by no means justifiable but it did have a reason.

The American influence in the middle east is hated by many arabs in the middle east. Yet still it continues... why? three letters, one simple word. Oil.

The middle east is rich with oil, the texan oil fields wil soon run dry. America needs oil. it needs influence in the middle east and it wont let go of it. This along with the support of the isralies occupying palistine makes some people angry. Osama (assuming he did it, which is another argument) does not like this, he killed the school bully, and the school bullies family.


Whilst im here, ive got another point. I watch the news quite a lot and one thing ive heard loads of is about how they have liberated the women of palistine. Thats, not the problem. What i dont understand is this.
On every TV news channel ive heard the women reporters saying that they have taken off the head scarvs that they had to wear. They say that the muslim women are now free to but are afraid to be the first. They say they are now liberated and should remove thier head scarves.

The one thing they fail to mention or realise is that under the religion of Islam women must wear head scarves when in the presence of a man who is not of blood relation. This, an accepted part of the Muslim religion, is practised by muslim women in Britain, Ameriaca and the rest of the world. This isnt oppression, its a choice, why should these women be expected to remove a part of thier religion?

Damn American news reporters.

[/rant]

Ah well, sorry everyone that actually read that. i just think it is important to understand a persons motives whether you agree with them or not.

Understand them. and insted of blowing them and hundreds of thousands of inocent people to hell, try to talk, change yourself, change them, and make the world a better, and more accepting, place for everybody.

ahhh... can u feal the love?

Yes oil is probably one of the only real reason for the American presence in the Middle East. That sticky substance is the cause of alot of grief in the region. Too bad its so important.

i don't believe in good or bad, or right or wrong.

but there comes a time when you must raise your fist to protect that which you have,

whether it is right or wrong is irrelevant.

quote:

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Originally posted by j0662:

The one thing they fail to mention or realise is that under the religion of Islam women must wear head scarves when in the presence of a man who is not of blood relation. This, an accepted part of the Muslim religion, is practised by muslim women in Britain, Ameriaca and the rest of the world. This isnt oppression, its a choice, why should these women be expected to remove a part of thier religion?

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no one is asking that these women be forced to remove the head gear, it is simply to give them the right to do so if they CHOOSE to without fear if being punished or even killed. barbaric enforcement of religeous law (to me anyway) is worse that capitolism.

Anybody who uses relgion for these purposes is worse then almost anything. This probably is one of the reasons some religions are so intollerent of others. I cant think of one that hasnt commited autrosities in the name of some type of God. The Roman Catholic church is one of the bad ones, not to many of them (other religions) would burn innocent men women and children alive at the stake. Even the Aztecs who slaughtered thousands for their gods thought of the R.C.s as barbaric. The Aztec victims were "willing" and usually aquired through "arrranged wars" ("flowery wars, or "war of the flowers"). The "heart donors" were vanquished soldiers who considered themselves as already dead (fallen in battle). They were also treated with the utmost respect and commpasssion some thing the early Christian church never did. I would rather have my heart cut out which is relatively painless when compared to being burned alive. There are others that killed their enemies in rude ways I only chose the R.C. as an example because Christianity is such a powerful force today.

[This message has been edited by hellis (edited 02-11-2002).]

[This message has been edited by hellis (edited 02-11-2002).]

i see ur point hellis about religious brutality but that was then,
this is now.

If want to prove ur point with relevance to this discussion please connect ur arguments with the points being raised instead of critisising R.C's on something that was heavily believed many years ago and was part of their religion.

i dont know enough about middle eastern religions to comment on things they did years ago, but thats not the point of discusion so if you want to add anything to this post, please relate it to to disscusion raised.

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G

I was trying to make the point that it is still occuring and as long as there is religion it will remain that way.Forgive me for going off on a different tangent. As we can see from 09/11/02 things havent changed except that more damage can be done all at once.Also I should have elaberated on my past commparison, now it is us who are calling another relgion "barbaric". In the future another relgion will call yet another religion barbaric and so on and so on........

[This message has been edited by hellis (edited 02-12-2002).]

I see your point and i have to agree that religion does cause a lot of wars, arguments and diffuculties between countries.

no religion doesn't do this.

one man's/group's manipulation of said's faith to create a unifying spirit behind a cause or effort that they normally would not support.

which leads me to another ironic twist that happens here quite frequently.

admittedly most people here are atheists.

they frown upon a people rallying behind a country.

yet seemingly applause those that rally round a god.

and yet blame religion(christianity) in particular for it.

contradiction?

or teenangstion?

or i'll just go with whatever is not the popular thought at the time, to retain my auro of coolness and non-conformity to the sheeplike masses.

i was one once as well,

till one day when you look back and think,

god i was ignorant prick.

i think you've got the wrong idea about me.

I'm not an atheist and im not ignorant.

However i do like to keep an open mind which is why i like to hear different peoples opinions and consider the points they are trying to make rather than create my own opinion and base all my actions on that.

Thanks anyway.

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G

quote:

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Originally posted by Canyonero:
no one is asking that these women be forced to remove the head gear, it is simply to give them the right to do so if they [b]CHOOSE to without fear if being punished or even killed. barbaric enforcement of religeous law (to me anyway) is worse that capitolism.[/B]

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No one is asking them. From what i have seen they are expected to. Every news channel has been wondering why they arnt removing them, they are free now, they dont need to wear them. why should they wear them?

i wasn't necessarily speaking to you slant,

i don't you that well yet.

i apologize if it sounded like i was.

apology accepted, but i wasnt too fussed so dont worry about it.

[This message has been edited by SLANT g Rhythm (edited 02-13-2002).]

>>Lostmind maybe I should have worded it differently. Its not relgion, or the consept of religion that causes anything. It is those who interpret and convey to others the meaning of the doctrines and pervert it into what ever they can get away with for their own interests. Some people are ignorent and will blindedly follow what ever has been told to them without question, which is why education is so important so people cant fall into that trap.