The US government claims they found the Bin Laden tapes in a house in Kandahar, which sounds like a weak story. How did the tapes just get in the house, the United States government claims it was abandoned there. The audio on the tape is also inaudible and for most Arabs the volume is not loud enough for them to understand what is being said.

[This message has been edited by Peter_Kropotkin (edited 12-18-2001).]

why would they tape a normal conversation between friends, and since all vhs tapes and tv's were banned, what use would it be?
it doesn't make sense, they did something they knew was risky for absoulutly no gain. you can probably hear explosions in the backround trying to kill him, he had said he didn't do it previously and it was left in a room. why would he make a home video with no piont to it and leave it behind. he if he wanted to show it to the public he could have, but it seems he made it for the fun of it.

now that his denial tactic allowed him time to escape, why not shove some dirt in our eye? i could care less about all this crap people are saying about it's too dark or they can't hear it. with today's technology, most people can fix these problems with a home PC. i think it's his way of bragging about the attacks, intentionally left behind just to piss us off even more.

the govt has had it for a number of weeks. (why they didn't release it earlier, no one knows). while he was at home alledegdly making a home video of an unimportant and boring meeting the attack on him was in full swing. this was done while he still belived he would be killed.

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Originally posted by Peter_Kropotkin:
The US government claims they found the Bin Laden tapes in a house in Kandahar, which sounds like a weak story. How did the tapes just get in the house, the United States government claims it was abandoned there. The audio on the tape is also inaudible and for most Arabs the volume is not loud enough for them to understand what is being said.

[This message has been edited by Peter_Kropotkin (edited 12-18-2001).]

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that houe was the house of a top general or high ranking officer of the taliban. thats how it got in there. And several news sources asked Arab Americans to hear it without the english translator. they wrote down how they translated it and it was very very close to the "official" translation. there might have been a few disagreements on certain things said but it clearly pointed out that Bin Laden in the tape knew and pre planned the attack. now unless that is a Bin Laden double the arabs are claiming the CIA used might be a possibility but most feel it truely is him. there is no doubt that the person he is talking to though is a well known arab official and so i doubt the CIA could have gotten him to go along with this because then he would too be charged in this crime.

isn't it amazing how al-jazeera was a television station?

we convince arabs of it's authenticity, but it's like the news said.

"some people are so thickheaded, it'll be like the moon landing, no matter what evidence you provide, they still won't believe it, simply because they don't want to."

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Originally posted by RAOVQ:
the govt has had it for a number of weeks. (why they didn't release it earlier, no one knows).

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The main reason i can think of was because there might have been a coded message in the tape. By delaying it being shown, they have stopped the message being seen by potential terrorists.

Only a guess though.

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Originally posted by preying mantis:
The main reason i can think of was because there might have been a coded message in the tape. By delaying it being shown, they have stopped the message being seen by potential terrorists.

Only a guess though.

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why would they need a secret code in a video?? this doesn't make sense for a group of people who pulled off the simultaneous hijacking of 4 planes 3 of which succeeded in hitting their targets all done through the mail with no phones....

this also leads to the anthrax cases which gave the government an excuse to thouroughly search the mail almost indefinitely with little real risk to the general population.

maybe it was a ploy to freeze mail delivery in certain areas, to stop terrorist communications......

If they're clever enough to pull of that attack, they're clever enough to understand that they'll be hunted like dogs afterwards. Therefore communication would be tight.

People have used this a message to others before, why couldn't they use it now?

ok, good point mantis

Do you remember the day of September 11, right away, before the second plane even hit I remember for a fact most news stations were pegging it on Bin Laden. They had no conclusive evidence, they still do not. I am gonna get alot more posts like :

""some people are so thickheaded, it'll be like the moon landing, no matter what evidence you provide, they still won't believe it, simply because they don't want to."

for saying it, but they still do not have good, solid proof.

The government always needs to blame something. They can never be honest and say "we do not know" or "we are not sure". If there is ever a fire and they can not find a cause it is always "an electrical fire." There always have to have an answer or people will learn just how incredibly fallible government is, and realize it is not necessary.

If there was a multiple choice question:
1) Bin laden is:
A) The mastermind of Sept 11.
B) Innocent.
C) Defiant Exile's mother
D) Not enough information known.

The correct answer would be D. Not enough info is known. People say that it is hard to fake that, it is not. It is quite easy with actors.

you're a fool.

quit watching the x-files,

not everything the united states does is a conspiracy.

not everything has some deep underlying meaning that the surface conceals.

freud~"sometimes a cigar is just a cigar"

most of the times a pile of shit, is just that...

a pile of shit.

you want conspiracy, here's a good one.

enjoying years of peace and prosperity,

where all we had to worry about was if oj's old knees could kill two people with a knife and neither one of them screaming loud enough to be heard by all the people the police said were outside at the time?

whether or not bill clinton was deciding us policy while getting a blow job?

did conditt fuck the intern or not?

all the while underneath a storm was brewing.

there's a conspiracy to wet your lips on.

quote:

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Originally posted by Peter_Kropotkin:
Do you remember the day of September 11, right away, before the second plane even hit I remember for a fact most news stations were pegging it on Bin Laden. They had no conclusive evidence, they still do not.

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Are you as thick as shit or what. Bin Laden had already bombed that exact same building 9 years previous, A US navy warship and many others. The first name that came to my mind when i heard the news was his. Does that make me a corrupt government official involved in a large conspiracy against peter kropotkin.

NO IT DOESN'T

It just means that i actually remembered that he'd already bombed the dammed thing and so would probably be his most likely target. Strangely enough this only a few weeks after he said that he'd do such a thing.

Coincidence?

First of all Osama Bin Laden was not the mastermind of the Sept 11 bombings. The media keeps saying it, but it is not true. Mohammed Atwah(spelled wrong I bet), the Egyptian, who was involved in the attacks was the mastermind. The media and government are calling Osama the mastermind at times and at others Atwah. Atwah would be the only mastermind as he came up with the idea and went through the details of planning and recruiting.

If someone tries to do commit a crime and the same crime is commited again, it is not proof that the person who committed it first did it again. You need better proof than that, it is just circumstantial.

i found a creamy sample in my Krispi Kream donut today!

quote:

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Originally posted by Peter_Kropotkin:
First of all Osama Bin Laden was not the mastermind of the Sept 11 bombings. The media keeps saying it, but it is not true. Mohammed Atwah(spelled wrong I bet), the Egyptian, who was involved in the attacks was the mastermind. The media and government are calling Osama the mastermind at times and at others Atwah. Atwah would be the only mastermind as he came up with the idea and went through the details of planning and recruiting.

If someone tries to do commit a crime and the same crime is commited again, it is not proof that the person who committed it first did it again. You need better proof than that, it is just circumstantial.

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Do you actually read my posts or just read a few sentences and post more shit? I never said that if he did it once it must have been him. I'm just saying thats why the media jumped on the bandwagon hours after the attack.

Also, why can't both of them have masterminded the attack. Atwah the actual bombing, bin laden the money and the people. Or any other combination. In fact, more than two people might have masterminded it.

The reason the media and the government don't know is because if they asked the two of them, do you really think one will speak up and say, "no, i think i'll take all the credit for this one".

Peter,you think that you know so much, have you been to afghanistan recently? All you do is find faults with the medias coverage of the situation. All they are doing is what any other countries media would do, feed information, biased of course to the public.

Basically, the information you get is also from a biased source. Unles you actually know any member of the Taliban then you are just doing what the media are doing, speculating.

quote:

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not everything has some deep underlying meaning that the surface conceals. Freud~"sometimes a cigar is just a cigar"

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That quote, by Freud, just showed that he had a little hypocrisy and ignorance in him. In all of his books, especially The Psychopathology of Everyday Life, he goes into detail that everything happens because of an unconscious motive. Anyway, I see your point, despite the misleading quote.

"-Children in dreams often stand for the genitals; and, indeed, both men and women are in the habit of referring to their genitals affectionately as their �little ones.� Stekel is right in recognizing a �little brother� as the penis. Playing with a little child, beating it, etc., often represent masturbation in dreams." ~Sigmund Freud

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Originally posted by preying mantis:

Also, why can't both of them have masterminded the attack. Atwah the actual bombing, bin laden the money and the people. Or any other combination. In fact, more than two people might have masterminded it.

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I am just going with the logical conclusion of some of the facts the media stated.

According to them they found a notebook of Atwah in which he had notes about the bombing. Most of the terrorists were from Egypt as was Atwah. Atwah according to the media's information should be considered the mastermind. If Bin Laden had one or two ideas or contributed funding he still should not be considered the mastermind as according to the media Atwah did most of the planning, recruiting, training, etc. and thus fits the definition of the mastermind.

Also according the media Bin Laden was in Afghanistan and he only communicates, person to person, he does not use technology anymore in his communications such as phones. It is coloring the story for the media to call Bin Laden the mastermind of Sept 11 given the facts they present.


Also you said Bin Laden bombed the WTC, he did not. That is not what he does. He orders other people to do things. He is very much like a head of state in this respect. President Abdurrahman WAHID of Indosenia does not bomb or attack East Timor he gets others to do it for him. There is a difference. You are falsifying information to make a point.

I do think Bin Laden knew about and funded the bombing and approved the bombing and he may have even contributed a few ideas to the initial plan. I just do not think that the government has proved it yet beyond a reasonable doubt. Their inaudible video tape and the weak explanation they gave of how they came upon the tape are suspect.



[This message has been edited by Peter_Kropotkin (edited 12-23-2001).]

peter, you need to stop putting together the little tidbits that fit your theory, and concentrate on the facts as a whole,

yes the media calls attah the "mastermind" behind the bombings, because he was the groups coordinator.

and yes the media calls bin laden the mastermind,

but behind the plan, not the actual mission itself.

The media stated that Atwah was the one who came up with the idea to fly a plane in the World Trade Center.



[This message has been edited by Peter_Kropotkin (edited 12-23-2001).]

attah couldn't have done a thing without the financial backing of bin laden, convenient how bin laden is still alive though

People who are gonna die soon need no money. Just purhcase stuff on credit and when you die, you never have to pay.

the houses/vehicles etc. used by the terrorists while living in the us were all paid for in cash. even the plane tickets were paid in cash.

[quote]Most of the terrorists were from Egypt as was Atwah.[/quote]

Most of the terrorists (I've heard 15 out of the 19) were...Saudi Arabian. And let's just take a wild guess of what Osama Bin Laden's country of origin is...could it be: Saudia Arabia?

[quote]Also you said Bin Laden bombed the WTC, he did not. That is not what he does. He orders other people to do things. He is very much like a head of state in this respect.[/quote]

Wouldn't that make him the mastermind?

[quote]The media stated that Atwah was the one who came up with the idea to fly a plane in the World Trade Center.[/quote]

Weren't you the one rebuking the media for bad reporting?

Mr. Kropotkin" I told you before, you must stop smoking that stuff. It makes you talk funny!!! Love, Venus