Why not speed up our own evolution a little? There is always the question of 'what appens if they fall into the wrong hands?"... Same thing with guns. Same thing with Nuclear weapons. SAme thing with passenger aircraft. Any news, recent breakthroughs I don't know about?

we wouldnt nessicarily evolve that way, but still we should do it because it would be very good for us.

So true... But people think it is unnatural. Like fucking your fist isn't?

I can't wait for the day when human genetic engineering is the norm. It will be a while though. Once the saftey issues are taken care of (remember it is still a new technology that remains largely unexplored. Once there is a clear understanding of genetics, many of the ethical issues will become moot. As for the whole "is it right to meddle" question, I say fuck it, let's see what happens.

well it depends on what kind of change u wanted, i mean, to make us stronger, taller, larger penises and minor things are ok, but giving people 3 arms is out of the question! then there would be no human race, but little tiny enchancements wont hurt nobody

Sounds like a good idea.

Seeing as how natural selection has more or less stopped in the developed world, it could be the only way we can improve ourselves as a race.

There is always eugenics (selective breeding). But genetic engenering would be pretty cool. And what is wrong with a third arm? Besides being one hell of a technical feat? How about toes that can be used as fingers? Photosynthesizing skin that reduces the need to eat? Cat eyes? Luminecent blood?

The posibilities are endless, and for the most part realy cool.

i want fur

according to some alien and universal entity sites (no,im not a frequent viewer) there are several levels of undergroun 'bases' in the U.S and on one (i think the '7'th), they are supposed to be doing his and have done for years.

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Originally posted by SeerLost:
i want fur

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Thats more than manipulation, thats gene splicing. Potentially kool, but also potentially fatal. Of course thats what test subjects are for.

Regarding genetic engineering, I personaly put different theoretical procedures in one of three classification.

Class 1 genetic engineering is where a person's biochemistry is tweaked slightly to produce a given result. A stronger immune system would require a tweak to the bone marrow, which produces white blood cells.

Class 2 genetic engineering requires a surgical procedure to attach geneticaly engineered tissue to a person's body. A prehensile tail would require that tissue samples be taken, geneticaly engineered, grown into a form, than grafted onto the body.

Class 3 genetic engineering is for procedures that are so complex or subtle that it is only feasable to alter the genome of and embryo and let it develop with the new set of instructions. Just about anything involving the brain or central nervous system would be class 3.

This is just how I keep it straight for the sci-fi I write, but I think it works as a valid system.

Fur would be cool, and may be possible with a class 1 procedure. Researchers have already developed a topical cream that can turn skin cells into hair folicles. Though that works by turning on and off genes that already exist in the cells, a viral carrier could be introduced to inject GE material into the skin.

Don't expect the afore mentioned cream to come on the market as a baldness cure anytime soon, there is currently still a problem in orienting the folicles, which results in lots of ingrown hairs (ouch!).

There are many problems with simply speeding up our evolution. There are thousands if not hundreds of thousands of operations that are working in parallel that contribute to the emmense complexity of genetic operations. Changing one minute aspect of a genetic structure can cause a most undesired result. Since everything comes down to a chemical building block, this might be like taking a foundational and fundamental out of a structure that stands only because of a certain building block. Eliminate this fundamental and the rest of the structure comes crashing down with it. Same goes for adding blocks.

Understanding first how everything works as a parallel system of bio-chemical interactions must be how we alter our evolution in a bottom up approach. If a top down approach is used for this, in my opinion, we can only hope for utter horror and destruction.

one last thought.

There are also many different species of microbes that live sybiotically in our systems, in all species of life on planet earth. Take pro-biotics for example, Acidophilus helps in digestion. It is a seperate bacteria. What if we use some genetic alteration on humans that changes the behavior of these probiotics, making them unable to assist us over time. Tiny nano sized creatures, many of which we have don't even know about or even have catalogued contribute to the danger of genetic manipulations.

In genetics, its the little things that count. So sweat them. You're not just changing one aspect of your structure. You are changing everything that interacts with your chemical structure and system as well.

Since life took billions of years to evolve into its current state- the utmost caution must be observed.

Some thigns to add to my list...

1. Quicker reaction time
2. Increaded brain power (actually using the whole thing)
3. Increased vision (Reflective eyes for night vision is cool)
4. Immunities to common or severe diseases.

Why don't we just genetically enhance a virus that is in our system, o that when it is passed on to the next host, certain deformations make the immune system easier to kill it. Or we get everyone that has a certain disease and launch them into the sun, along with Barbera Strycan, Martha Stewart, Oprah(big oprah), and Rosie O'Donnel.

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Originally posted by SpaceFalcon2001:
Thats more than manipulation, thats gene splicing. Potentially kool, but also potentially fatal. Of course thats what test subjects are for.

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to early to sign up then?

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Originally posted by SeerLost:
to early to sign up then?

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Actually too late, the waiting list is 10 miles long . Seriously though, If you make too strong an immune system, then if the body decides to attack itself for some reason, you may die faster.

Some thigns to add to my list...
1. Quicker reaction time


This is an interesting idea. It would be necassary to understand how the messages travel from the visual cortex, (assuming you're thinking of a quicker reaction time for say, Ninjas or somthing)then to a another process that designates the event as a threat/harm, and then to the physical reaction to avoid/counter threat. There's auditory and other reastion timing. Perhaps we don't know if the five sense are linked. improving one without the other might make for a limp cock or a dry vagina 24/7, and who wants that?


2. Increaded brain power (actually using the whole thing)


The thing is, we probably do use all of our brain. Possibly this can be divided into two categories. The subconscious probably utilizes all of the brain, all the time. While the conscious, get-up-and-go-to-my-shitty-job part of the brain, doesn't use all the brain power. Why? well, this might be a good thing, because you might shit your pants by just thinking about shitting your pants. Most people who say we only use 10% of our brain are usually dumbass hippies who have destroyed 90% of theirs with bad acid.


3. Increased vision (Reflective eyes for night vision is cool)


But you would have to somehow be able to control its day and night functions, otherwise getting up in the morning with a hangover might feel like someone is stabbling you in the eye's with a wooden spoon.


4. Immunities to common or severe diseases.


There's a lot of argument now circulating that that disease is a reaction, or symptom of an underlying systemic cause, yet not the actual cause itself. That is to say, that possibly a disease is simply a matter of the body being deprived of nutrients like magnesium. So you don't catch a disease, you just give a rise to a cause of the disease by bio chemical diffeceincy. A topic that must be debated.


Why don't we just genetically enhance a virus that is in our system, o that when it is passed on to the next host, certain deformations make the immune system easier to kill it.


Did someone say, Pandora's Box? I can't remember what artical I read where researchers in Aulstralia actualy did genetically alter a virus. They thought that they had it under control, that is until it jumped from one species to another. They did not want the scientific community to know about the error, yet the mistake was so easy to make with this particular virus that they feared that others would make the same and create the same problem, and well, fuck. I wish I could remember that artical. Sorry, I can site no evidence of this story. By the way, the virus killed every species it inhabited.


Or we get everyone that has a certain disease and launch them into the sun, along with Barbera Strycan, Martha Stewart, Oprah(big oprah), and Rosie O'Donnel.


Usually, I think of giant catapults. So launching into sun works too.

Alot of people think that genetic manipulation is just another trivial advancement that should just be tinkered with so we can do this or that "Kool thing".

Genetics, and bio-engineering science is quite possibly the most potently dangerous science now available.

May the force be fucking with us.
Because godamn it, we're going to fucking need it.

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[This message has been edited by Fathomshot (edited 12-05-2002).]

[This message has been edited by Fathomshot (edited 12-05-2002).]

[This message has been edited by Fathomshot (edited 12-05-2002).]

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Originally posted by SpaceFalcon2001:
[B] Actually too late, the waiting list is 10 miles long .B]

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i think its safer at the back of that line than near the center... or the front... (you said that didnt you?)

Fathomshot, pretty cool...

I want to be stronger, faster, smarter, sexier, indestructable (titanium skin or something) and immune to all sickness oh and I want to be able to fly, and laser vision, ice breath, and super hearing

I wouldn't mind not needing to sleep, tougher skin, more resistance to bruises, stronger bones, faster reflexes, more strength, better night vision, faster healing, and naturally green or blue hair. Better hearing would be great too, although I think my sense of touch is already too sensitive.

Immunity to pain.

Thank you, Thank you,

i was watching a program about this. what they would do is introduce 10 or 20 new or modified genes into each generation. that means that in a short space of time (300 years) there would be one or two thousand genes difference, this would effectively put them a level above "humans" they say the difference between us and chimps is 3000 (not entirely sure, will check). that is quite a scary thought.

I think that if any of you morons wants to tamper with your own genes, go right ahead and do it. And I promise I'll go to your funeral shortly after the procedure. But if any of you bastards are planning on manipulating the genetic code of an unborn human being I will hunt you down cut off your balls and make you eat them. That being said, see you in hell.

you cant tamper with your ow genes all this ould beed to be done before the zygote forms. if someone @modified" themselves it would not pass down because it is not in their DNA

The human strength is that we're all different. We've been doing ok so far with that... why fuck it up now?

we won't fuck it up. ironically, the evolutionary principle of natural selection will apply itself to genetic research: successful and useful mods will become commonplace, whereas evil mutation-inducing horrors will be exposed by the news media and cease to be.

yeah that is in a perfect world but the process of natural selection does not include who has the most money regardless of intent. if it is sucessful there will bea market for "nasty" modifications.

useful does not preclude nasty.

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Originally posted by weedman1234:
I think that if any of you morons wants to tamper with your own genes, go right ahead and do it. And I promise I'll go to your funeral shortly after the procedure. But if any of you bastards are planning on manipulating the genetic code of an unborn human being I will hunt you down cut off your balls and make you eat them. That being said, see you in hell.

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Catholic much?

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Originally posted by alex_uk:
you cant tamper with your ow genes all this ould beed to be done before the zygote forms. if someone @modified" themselves it would not pass down because it is not in their DNA

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Of course germ line alterations could be introduced by growing someone a new set of testicles with the altered DNA and doing a transplant. Also, retroviruses have the ability to infect germ cells and alter their DNA.

alex_uk:

A Princeton Professor of Genetics named Lee Silver said that bit about introducing genes and 300 years. The program you're talking about was called "Life and Death in the 21st Century: Designer Babies". It was on BBC2 on Thursday, January 6th, 2000 at 8:00pm, if I recall correctly Actually, I Googled it, and the info on it (a partial transcript) here:
http://www.st-anastasia.org/RespectLife/headlines2.htm#Designer

Also, this Lee Silver fellow wrote an article about that very same thing in UKs Prospect Magazine. Info on that article ("Two tiers for the future") can be found here:
http://www.prospect-magazine.co.uk/LoginPage.asp?P_Article=9242

or here:
http://www.prospect-magazine.co.uk/ArticlesListBySubject.asp?P_Subject=33&Subject=Genetics

He also wrote a decent book called "Remaking Eden: How Genetic Engineering and Cloning Will Transform the American Family".

Drekblog and Fathomshot: Very good stuff.

- Amateur Eugenics... I'm all for it (but in a humanitarian, take-an-egg-from-Marilyn-vos-Savant-and-fertilize-it-with-Stephen-Hawking's-spooge-and-see-how-the-little-test-tube-tike-turns-out kind of way, though, or in a Mother-Theresa-Einstein-Elvis_love_triangle kind of way... not in a round-up-all-the-Jews-Gypsies-and-fags-'cause-there's-plenty-of-death-to-be-done-Hitleresque kind of way )

/\ thanks for taht i will look into them, it is quite a scary prospect really but a very interesting one.

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Originally posted by alex_uk:
i was watching a program about this. what they would do is introduce 10 or 20 new or modified genes into each generation. that means that in a short space of time (300 years) there would be one or two thousand genes difference, this would effectively put them a level above "humans" they say the difference between us and chimps is 5000 (not entirely sure, will check). that is quite a scary thought.

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changed minor detail.

If you're interested in human re-engineering check out this website. Abolishing suffering is the first logical step we should make in transcending evolution...
www.hedweb.com