Ok, you know those sipping chickens that you can buy at a toy store that tip over and dip their beek into water or whatever you put in front of it. Anyways, there is some chemical inside that reacts with air or something and rises. I forget what it is called but I was thinking if you could get some of that chemical and do like the same idea with the chicken and attatch a turbine to it and some system that will turn it. It would be VERY slow i bet but I think it would work. I think im going to do some experiment with it.

I think a better use of your time could be accomplished by exposing aluminum metal to 8.8 eV radiation. The Borhen Experiment showed some materials become increasingly efficient at conducting energy when exposed to certain forms of light (UV, Infra-red, et cetera). See http://www.cheniere.org for more information on Free Energy systems.

I was just thinking of a generator that you put in your house and not have to worry about gas, but you would most likely have to wait 10 years for the thing to charge.

perpetual motion machines don't work, and energy cannot be created or destroyed. these two rules kinda destroy the idea of "free" energy. all energy created must come from sometihng with the same, or more frequently more energy. more efficent ways can be created, but they all have to use fuel.

quote:

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Originally posted by RAOVQ:
perpetual motion machines don't work.

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They dont work because everything loses energy when it does something. No one claimed it was a perpetual motion machine though.

Why don't we see a lot of electromagnetic power plants? Firs tof all, all it takes is a powerful magenet, anothjer magent to be repelled with, and momentum. We start the magents off by facing both north/ both south poles at each other, they repel, and the magnet that is not staionary moves around a central drive shaft that generates the electricity. The magnet swings back around, and using momentum, flies back up. Of course, there is the risk of the momentum not having enough energy to complete a full turn around the driveshaft, and in that situation, the systems would have to be reset. But that's what reserves are for, right?

Can perpetual motion be attained with magnetic suspension in a frictionless environment? It sounds theoretically possible.

best way for "free" energy...

wear a jacket which convert your body heat
into electrical energy...

when you sleep, u feel cool b cos the heat
is conducted/converted into electrical
energy...

u dun need to waste power on fan/air-con...

the next day u can use charged battery
(body heat converted to electrical
charges battery)

u save energy 'waste' and convert them into use....

the only reason perpetual motion doesn't work is because of the energy lost. if you could eliminate loss through friction then it would. you can get machines that work for a while, but not forever.

The sipping chicken contraption whatever... wouldn't work forever because of air friction and eventual evaporation.

I started a post about perpetual motion a while back. The idea that i had failed. I had a quadruple single set double rail helix and a vertical conveyer belt with paddles. My idea was that a ball bearing would travel down the rails and hit a paddle that would move the paddle up and also move another paddle down behind it. The next ball bearing would roll down and hit the paddle (with the first bb on the other side) and make the paddle and first bb move up and the next paddle come down behind it. It almost worked. The first ball bearing (sitting on the first paddle) would gradulally move upwards whilst other bb's on lower paddles also moved up. It got to a point where the power from the bb hitting the bottom paddle wasn't enough to move the convayer belt. It failed by around 2 cm.

I conclude that perpetual motion or free energy machines are impossible on earth. But in a total vacuum with no gravity i believe they are possible.

Chunk

quote:

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Originally posted by xenosss:
The sipping chicken contraption whatever... wouldn't work forever because of air friction and eventual evaporation.

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The sipping chicken thing works because the alcohol in the bulb is kept at such a low presure that it boils at room temperature. The vapor pressure forces the fluid from the bottom bulb to the top bulb. When it becomes overbalanced it tips over. This allows the fluid collected in the top a return path to the bottom bulb. At this point the vapor pressure in the top bulb is the same as the bottom bulb. The evaporation of the water on the 'beak' provides the cooling for the vapor in the top bulb to condense, providing enough of an inbalance for the fluid to be pushed up to the top bulb.

Esentialy, the energy of evaporation is converted to mechanical energy. This is impractical on a large scale, due to the fact that if the tube is too long, the presure imbalance is too much for the vapor pressure to overcome, and that much evaporation can only occour so rapidly on such a small object.

don't gases have perpetual motion? they just bounce off walls all the time? i probably don't know enough about atoms and such though... what do you think?

Gasses move about like that because they have kenetic (thermal) energy. There are few methods of converting ambient thermal energy into other forms, and none effeciant enough to be used commercialy. Though I do have a design I'm working on.

Thanks for the explanation Prometheus. Why does the bird stop then?

because energy is lost in a gajillion ways.

Exactly. It being too hot, too humid, impurities caused the water to evaporate too slowly, or a million other variables that could unbalance such a delicate system.

It seems my last post was avoided. Perpetual motion is possible iwht magents. IF we can find a very powerful magnet, another magnet of any strength could be placed on top of it ( - to - ) It would repel, and if the smaller magnet of any strength could be forced to go in a cylindrical motion, and the stationary magnet turned so that the same side faced the other magent at all times, it would be perpetual. Much like the same way that the moon revolves around the earth. I'm not much of a science person ( seeing that I got my second A in the class in my whole life last term at school. ) , but the idea could work.

I have an idea that might be an alternative energy source. Tesla coils. They transfer energy wihtout wires. Put a solar/thermal power plant on a planey such as mercury or venuus, becuas eof the high temperatures on mercury and Always moving hot gasses on venus. If we can produce long range tesla coils or a huge collection of tesla coils moving energy from the plants to earth, we could stop coal mining or natural gas usage all togethor. Maybe after world war 3, if the world ever gets united, we could invest in such a project.

No offence, but you are an idiot.

The magnetic perpetual motion is absurd. And that is not how the moon orbits earth, it orbits because of a little force called GRAVITY and it doesn't slow down more than a tiny bit per year because it is in a vacuum and has tremendous inertia.

Your second paragraph is equaly inane. First on you list of crimes against science is the fact that it is so hot on both Venus and Mercury that nothing we have built to date can survive there long.

And I am pretty sure that you have no idea how a tesla coil works. Let me fill you in (as it is not my nature to criticize without details). Tesla coils use an electric current to draw electrons out of the base of the coil, which in turn draws them out of any abailable material. These electrons are concentrated in the head of the coil, very densly. When the voltage (electron pressure) gets high enough a bolt of static elictricty is conducted to the first availabe object with a lower static charge, usualy a grounded object. For those not in the know, static electricity is what also causes lightning.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Prometheus:


And that is not how the moon orbits earth,

Last time I checked, the same side of the moon always faced the earth. Idiot huh?...

[ Completely scrapped and reedited]
I excited myself and should've elaborated.

1. I still think perpetual motion can be schieved using magnetic forces. If it was in a vacuum, then air resistance and other factors would not interfere. A simple motor can be made using this same theory. I've seen child's toys that use a small electromagnet and a magnet to repel, and at the same time rotates so the similar poles are always facing each other. The cheap plastic construction may obstruct it from being 'perpetual' but it does spin, and the energy is being created from 'nothing'.

2. PLease remember I was saying 'in the future', an dI figured you would use common sence to know that I was talking about the future. If we *can* create a thermal plant on venus, or a solar plant on mercury, it would provide a rather endless source of energy.

3. Yes, I admit I was in a thoughtful mood and blurted out anything that I could think of. Tesla coils *could* be used if we could convert the energy from a planetary plant to static and have the electricity jump from one coil to the other. ITs not something anyone could construct in their backyard, but with billions of dollars of runding, it oculd happen.

With the tesla thing: that is an absurd way to transmit power, mainly because the charge would ground itself long before that much power built up, by a factor of trillions of trillions. If solar power is set up, solar panels in orbit would work far better, as they would be close enough to maintain, and in a fairly regular environment. To transmit that power microwave lasers could be employed. That is a long thought of idea worked on by many scientists. Long before that becomes a necessity to power the earth, fusion power will be on the scene making the point moot.

The same face of the moon always faces the earth because of the simple fact that the moon orbits the earth in 29 1/2 days, and has a rotation of 29 1/2 days. If it were magnetic like you claim (a stupid theory if ever I heard one) than the magnetic poles of the earth would have to be east and west, insted of north and south. Likewise on the moon. All that force would cause the moon to be pulled into the earth, and the moon would have to orbit the earth in geosyncronus orbit. Unless the east-west magnetic poles rotated at a speed far slower than that of the earth, an even more rediculus theory which still dictates that the moon crush the earth.

As far as the magnetic perpetual motion thing goes, if you are so convinced that it would work, build a model and prove me wrong. I honestly hope you succeed.

"Perpetual" motion is impossible given the law of conservation of energy, but we can still make cool machines that run for a long time before needing another boost. I'm just trying to figure out the cheapest and most efficient way to create a device that can perform an action for like days at a time before stopping.

[This message has been edited by Dark_Magneto (edited 11-28-2002).]

You can do that by making the product in a completely closed environment, so the energy cannot leave the enviornment that the motor or what ever is in. But I don't think they exist in reality.

ok, what about when a certain machine gun have run out bullets yet it still clicks when the trigger is pressed.
using the same mechanism with the 'trigger' bolted down (is this not free-energy?)

How would the internals of the gun not degrade over time?

Chunk

Um, pulling the triger is the cause of that clicking noise, which is the hammer dropping.

I think you are confusing that with the mechanisim that uses exhaust gasses to chamber another shell.

Even if you could get a perpetual motion machine to work what would be the point. It would be a great desk top toy... But if energy canot be created how woyld you be able to use it for any thing. wouldnt it use up all its energy just continuing to move?