I really haven't seen as many articles about time travel as i would like. I just want to hear what anyone has to say about it. Not just about how to travel in time, but what the affects would be. Say if you were to travel back in time when you were 30 to when you were 18, would the 30 year old suddenly remember when he was 18 a 30 year old version of himself? But wouldn't he still remember at age say 20 or 21. Would this happen instantaneously? or would he have to remember up from when he was 18 to age 30? So, if the 30 year old visited the 18 year old, wouldn't that affect whether or not the 30 year old went back in time anyways? possibly rendering the whole thing inert. So actaully going back in to time would unable you to actaully to go back into time?... Just some thoughts i had, a tad confusing but definitely something to debate. Oh yes one last thing, me and my friends made a pact that if in the future, if time travel becomes possible, we would ask our wives to go back in times and pay a sexual visit to us when we were say 15 or 16, so seeing is how im nearly 16, if time travel is possible in the future, and i remember to tell ask my wife(if i ever have 1 worth having sex with) shouldnt she appear right before my horney eyes and say something like "wow i guess you were always this big." excuse my cheeze humor, but its a relatively funny idea.

-Gimme feedback

here's a part of something i'm writing now for school... god i hate school... i really need to get laid..


�The past is done, the present is hopeless and the future is all that matters.� So which do we want to know, what is true, or what is the truth? First I want to distinguish what is true between the logical concept of yes/no and equivalency. �is snow white�, �is snow=white�, �does this=that? y/n� �is white a parameter of snow?�. You may read and see and hear the word �is� but how does that relate to the logical concept of = and how does all that relate to y/n. These are questions of the fundamentals of logic but an important thing to understand about logic is that it is directly related to time. Logic is sequential reasoning just like the constant sequential flow of time, indeed the concept of logic is in emulation to the flowing time in the universe. However it is not a complete simulation, only an imperfect emulation. The problem is when logic is used inappropriately to represent the universe. For example, logic can be reversed, that is an important fundamental of logic, the ability to backtrack a sequence. However time does not work this way despite the fantasy�s of science fiction nerds everywhere. When asked the question �why?� there is a great tendency to backtrack in your mind, as one concept of why is the �causal� why. You take an event of interest and follow backward though time event after event until you have a confident conceptualization of the cause of the event. So there is a great tendency to do this when dealing with concepts. Not to say that this is wrong but it must be done with care because; is knowing a sequence knowing the whole �why�? I would say no it is not, but too often philosophers do silly things with logic that are not necessary and ultimately get them no where but there is such a confidence with logic that makes this all the more difficult to explain. Re-consider the quote in the beginning of the paragraph, �the past is done, the present is hopeless, and the future is all that matters�. When you look at the truth of the future things are not so black and white anymore. Indeed the future holds many truths, truths that have not come to pass but ultimately one will. When you backtrack through time you easily see what you think is the truth but what you don�t see is the truths that could have happened in that moment but that didn�t. If you believe in destiny then you don�t have to strain your brain with the multiple truths of the future but if you do understand how this works then you should be sure to consider the existence of multiple truths. To recognize the future is to recognize uncertainty, to recognize uncertainty is to recognize the co-existence of multiple potential truths. Now is when logic must be put aside. However this outright offensive for some people and so we must look at why that is.

Either:

Get the special edition Scientific American about time (http://www.sciam.com/issue.cfm?issueDate=Sep-02)

or read How To Build a Time Machine by Paul Davies (a condensed version of that book is found in the September issue of Sci American)

If we could go the speed of light and traveled around space for 2 years and then came back to earth, assuming it is still here it will be closer to 2 million years old, thats kinda like time travel.

CTR

Going with the linear time theory, time travel is totally impossible. Time isn't anything, it's just a measurement. And genital, if you travelled through space at any speed for 2 years, and came back to Earth, it would be 2 years older, duh.

No it wouldn't, the faster you go the time affects you less, see Speed-Time= thread and then talk to a physics teacher.

CTR

if someone went back in time to change it say to stop hiltler or something?ow would that person know if he did stop him & if he did stop to save the lives of jews wouldnt that person be dead because if hiltler never happend then would have someone of us be dead& another thing if u go to the future then back in time to the second you went to the future would u be in the past or the futere ?

Once you went back to your past position it would be the present. You came from the present to the future and back to the present. Though, this is all relative. Any given moment is your present. If you travel 300 years into the future, that is now your present. To those in the past it is the future. Like Concept said, the linear time theory. We're just going from point A to point B.

The biggest problem with time travel is how to go fast enough. So far it is impossible to travel at the speed of light. What we have to do (in my opinion) is first find a way to encode DNA and the whole structure of someone onto light so it could be sent, like data on a fiberoptic cable. The person would be decoded, sent through the optics to a computer that would recode them and voila, speed of light travel. Hm.. maybe I should work on that.

And for the final question: the effect of changes to the past on the present (really... pick up How To Build a Time Machine). Of course no one knows, but the theory is that you wouldn't be able to change the past. Something in nature would stop you. There is an example with a pool table explaining this, but that'll be explained later. I have to go. (Also it is believed you couldn't travel to a time before the machine was made)

quote:

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Originally posted by Concept Lost:
Going with the linear time theory, time travel is totally impossible. Time isn't anything, it's just a measurement. And genital, if you travelled through space at any speed for 2 years, and came back to Earth, it would be 2 years older, duh.

---

Man, made me spit my coffee!

Newbies: the sophomore's of totse.

[When I say 'sophomore' I mean the translation - it's from two greek words; that's the only hint I'll give....for now.

Hmmm.. By that do you mean stupid smart people?

CTR

[Alteration (probably influenced by Greek sophos, wise, and mros, stupid), of sophumer from obsolete sophom, sophism, dialectic exercise, variant of sophism.]

That's the best I could do.

And Meta, Concept was ALMOST right. If he had said no matter how fast you are travelling, to YOURSELF two years is two years. Though that would have been obvious and he'd have no reason to state that.

Concept: The problem with your statement is that it is wrong. At light speed you are travelling faster than earth. Time is slower for you. Read Einstein's Theory of Relativity or at least learn it.

Theoretically, time travel, while not impossible, would be totally useless. The past is written and done. Nothing can change that. Therefore, in traveling to the past, one could only be a passive observer.
Let us observe an example - Say you travel back in time in order to prevent the holocaust (or something similary altruistic that would have a huge affect on the present). Now, if you try to murder Hitler, you would fail, because in looking back we can see that Hitler did not die. If you were to read a history book *before* you went back, you would see that someone had attempted to murder Hitler and failed. That someone was you. Get my point? Time eternally exists, and that which has already happened cannot be changed.
If you were to travel into the future, your disappearance in the past would change the future, because it is impossible to predict whether or not you will return. Changes can only be made in the present.

quote:

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Originally posted by xenosss:
[Alteration (probably influenced by Greek sophos, wise, and mros, stupid), of sophumer from obsolete sophom, sophism, dialectic exercise, variant of sophism.]

That's the best I could do.

And Meta, Concept was ALMOST right. If he had said no matter how fast you are travelling, to YOURSELF two years is two years. Though that would have been obvious and he'd have no reason to state that.

Concept: The problem with your statement is that it is wrong. At light speed you are travelling faster than earth. Time is slower for you. Read Einstein's Theory of Relativity or at least learn it.

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Read my post thats exactaly what i said.

CTR

quote:

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Originally posted by xenosss:
[Alteration (probably influenced by Greek sophos, wise, and mros, stupid), of sophumer from obsolete sophom, sophism, dialectic exercise, variant of sophism.]

That's the best I could do.

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You were close.

From Greek sophos wise + mOros foolish: Wise fool. Meaning, or so I read long ago, someone who thinks they have achieved great intelligence but actually make fools of themselves in the process of demonstrating it.

like sophomore's; they make it past being freshman and suddenly think they know it all. Fit's many newbies, don't it?

quote:

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And Meta, Concept was ALMOST right. If he had said no matter how fast you are traveling, to YOURSELF two years is two years. Though that would have been obvious and he'd have no reason to state that.

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I was tired: I missed that. Whoops, my bad

Genital: Yeah, well... I explained it a bit more.

Airwolf: NONE of us can talk as experts on the subject since it is ALL hypothesis. You cannot say with any certainty that you would be unable to change a past event. What if (and this is another theory) there is a multiverse in which every situation occurs, meaning that in one universe Hitler was killed by you after you travelled in time? True, the universe you came from would not change but you would be changing the one you travelled to. This is even considering that time travel to the past is possible.

Consider this: A professor travels into the future (let's say 2010) and reads a scientific journal containing a new revolutionary mathematical model. He travels back to his present (we'll say 2002) and teaches this model to a student of his. After 8 years of brushing it up and such, the student gets the model published in the same journal the professor read. Where did the model come from? Not from the teacher, since he read it. And not from the student, since he was taught it.

Or: By going into the pocket, the pool ball will travel into the past and come out a different pocket at such an angle to hit the same ball out of the way. So if the ball was hit out of the way it never went into the pocket. But if it never went in it was never hit out of the way.

http://www.advance.uconn.edu/01091012.htm

This guy thinks he can send neutrons into the past.

If he can, I have an Idea that would let you browse the web of the future:

1) Build a network card that can encode data as neutrons and send them into the past.

2) Have your computer save all outbound network traffic to disk. And send it out at the future time you are interesting in browsing the web of.

3) In that futiure time your computer would send your web requests, and encode the responses as neutrons that it would send back to your time.

4) you could read the responses to display web pages from the future.

Jesus Christ!
Isn't there just ONE original thinker on this site??? I guess it's just easier to beat the same old linear time paradoxes into the ground...Shit.
How about actually doing a little research before you pose the same old tired questions? There has NEVER been a time in the history of the world that information has been so easily obtained as it is now. New concepts and theories are just a few key strokes away! For God sake, get off your dead ass and use your fucking computer for more than playing games or bullshitting with your friends!
If you just take a couple of minutes with Google you would have enough information to keep you going for months...
What ABOUT non-linear time? What about time existing as a multi-dimentional now? Who are the current gurus in the field of time studies? have you read any of their papers?
Come on! There are a zillion easy ways to gain even the most modest enlightenment in any topic that interests you! All ya gotta do is have a little curiosity and just the teeniest amount of motivation...
Yeah, I know... but that might mean having to do a little work...instead of having it all handed to you on a silver platter...
Shit.

Im an original thinker, people that that are called kewls here on totse.

CTR

Do you believe our present time is being visited by travellers from the future?

quote:

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Originally posted by Ain:
Do you believe our present time is being visited by travellers from the future?

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No but we are all visitors from the past.

CTR

I agree with airwolfs theory with only being able to veiw the past, i have had several thoughts about this. If we are ever able to travel the speed of light or greater(which i remember hearing you couldn't do) catching up to where the light you wanted to see was. For example traveling out a certain distance and using a huge machine or telescope or something, to look back at earth to see whats going down. Also Ain, no i dont think we are being visited by people from the future, possible being veiwed by people in the future. If you really think about it, say a satelite was focused in on a certain person, the people who owned the satleite could be watching that guy in the past, it may only be a couple of seconds but the stuff their watching would have already happened.

Another thing to think about is using black holes to our advantage/knowledge, i know little about the subject but its definitely something to check into

What about the possibility of time travel by way of accessing other realities that represent both the past and the future?...That might exist in different dimensions? Could it be accomplished by a dimensional shift? Just because we are only experiencing a 3 dimensional world doesn't mean that other dimensions don't exist! As a matter of fact, other dimensions exist as mathmatical proofs...as well as in quantum theory...
Could it be that all things that have ever happened in the "past" and the "future" are, in fact happening now...only in a different dimension? Again, there is quite a lot of quantum theory that is leading down this path... These theories provide answers to a lot of the paradoxes that are present in a linear time system.
Have any of you explored the theory that there are an infinite number of versions of yourself...each one existing in the now...and each on representing all of the branches of reality that you create through your choices... The "Many Worlds" theory of reality... Is it possible to access any of these other versions of reality?
Don't scoff at any of the ideas that I've just rattled off here. They are ALL current theories being discussed by some pretty intelligent and well regarded physicists.
Take a few minutes of computer time to check out some of these possibilities... There are a whole world of potentials out there if you open your eyes to their possibilities...
The ONLY thing that is impossible is something that you can not imagine...If it can be imagined, it can be made real.
Broaden your imagination through learning of the things that were once thought to be impossible.



[This message has been edited by Ursus (edited 10-17-2002).]

Ursus: First of all, stop with all the "...". You have good thoughts but they are difficult to read without proper sentence structure.

Nothing you have said has been original either. No one expects someone on TOTSE to be some genius theoretical physicist. Someone posts an idea or question and we respond with our knowledge. Our knowledge is a collection of what we have been taught and what we have learned ourselves, all of which comes from others. So don't fucking patronise us when you have nothing "original" to offer either.

And we don't experience a three dimensional world but a four dimensional one (though some would argue it's more than four even). What I posted were some of the more accepted theories, though yes, you're right, yours are equally as important and I am glad you mentioned them.

Hahahahahahahahahahaha!!!
Holy Shit!
Well good for you for saying something!

First of all, the quotation marks that I used are appropriate in the context they are used.

The next thing, your contention that the physical reality that we experience is four dimensional is a point that I question. While the popular theory is that TIME is the fourth dimension, I have reason to believe otherwise. That reason is based on current quantum theory. That IS what this topic is about isn't it? TIME travel? In fact, I believe that reality exists in an infinite number of dimensions, not just three or four or ten or twenty.

I would venture to say that most of the people posting here never experienced life without personal computers or the internet. Well, I'm an old fart that has. There was the time that if you wanted to know something you had to spend hours and hours and hours at the library trying to find the information that you were looking for. Such is not the case anymore. CURRENT information on just about anything is available to anyone that has access to the internet. It is just a few keystrokes away. Yet, in spite of such easy access, so many people are just not motivated enough to look for it. This IS a discussion board isn't it? I would assume that those that choose to make their views known might actually take the time to know of what they speak and to stay relatively current along those lines. Perhaps not. What a crying shame.

I'm not a college graduate. In fact, I'm not even a high school graduate. But, I have a modicum of intelligence, curiosity and a disire to learn more than what is directly in front of my nose. I hardly think it is too much to expect those that choose to partake in a topic, such as "time travel," to take a couple of minutes to gain a little knowledge in that field before they begin spewing.

Perhaps this is NOT a discussion. I dunno. Perhaps it's just a general bullshit session that is supposed to LOOK LIKE an intelligent discussion. Or maybe it isn't supposed to even BE an intelligent discussion. I dunno. What do YOU think?

I know that there are intelligent people posting on this site. So, what's up with all of the feigned ignorance then?

Hahahahahahahaha! After spending a few days on the boards trying to decipher the mangled words and sentences that are posted here, I find it humorous that you should find it difficult to understand what I'm saying simply because I added a few quotation marks. I can only shake my head at that.

I do not impune anything that anyone has to say. I'm only saying, "Shit! Look beyond all of the trite explanations or old questions that have already been asked a million times before! Take just a FEW minutes to open your mind to new possibilities or new questions. Information is so damned easy to aquire now. It's almost a crime if people don't take the time to do so."

What I've seen so far is that this just isn't happening. So, what the fuck's up with that?

Oh well.

No, I'm probably not an original thinker, at least not as far as thinking up totally new concepts or theories. But, I DO try to think beyond what is right in front of my nose. I DO try to "connect the dots" that are implied or stated from many theories and ideas. I even manage to have an original idea myself once in a while.

The point is, I'm always looking for new ideas or concepts that will challenge my mind. I can only do that by seeking knowledge beyond what I already know. Frankly, it just doesn't take that much effort to do so...nowadays.

So you think I'm patronizing huh? Well, that is just an issue that you'll have to deal with then. Would you prefer that I flame the shit out of people instead? Sorry, but I'd prefer not to. I've only said what's in my heart and what is true for me. If you find that annoying, intimidating or unpleasant, so be it. It's not meant that way. But then, I can't be responsible for how it makes you feel.

I'm not trying to say that my point of view on any topic is any more correct or important than anyone elses...because it isn't. I would just like to see people challenge their minds a little more. That's all. It just takes such little effort to do so...nowadays

Anyway...Sorry if my style of writing has pissed anyone off... but I guess you'll just have to deal with it. It's the way I write...and think.

I wasn't referring to the quotation marks but to the dotdotdots. Your style of writing isn't confusing (definitely not compared to the many others on this board) but it is much easier to read something with paragraph breaks. And I'm sure that flames would be even more patronising.

I've been alive during the times before computers and have used the dewey decimal system and the card catalog to find my way through the library. I never thought it was too hard (though I stuck mostly to my school's library which was small).

As for the "trite explanations or old questions", they were posted because Criscocy is obviously not an expert on time travel (nor are any of us) and I felt that a basic background is a good place to start.

I feel no offense or resentment towards you. Anything I said was meant objectively. It's all just observation. We should get back on topic.

quote:

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Originally posted by Ursus:

I would venture to say that most of the people posting here never experienced life without personal computers or the internet. Well, I'm an old fart that has.

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You're the second person this week to call themselves an old fart.

The other guy was only 32. Am I right in guessing that while you may be older than that, it isn't all that much?

Let me just assume that it's somewhere around that [I'd say 'feel free to correct me' but I think you will regardless ;-) ].

So, if you guys are 'old farts', I don't even want to consider what that would make me.


The rest of this post I decided to remove and make a seperate thread over at SP since it did go on and on [which kinda goes without saying].

But it really didn't have anything to do with the spirit of this forum.


[This message has been edited by Metaphysicist (edited 10-19-2002).]

Thanks xenosss. I guess I tend to use an elipsis (...) whenever I pause to think or if I want to show a pause for emphasis or reflection. Anyway, I probably show my passion for learning more than a lot of people are comfortable with. I know I have no right to hope that others might share my passion. Oh well, so take me out back and shoot me.

Meta, actually, I'm 49.
I bought my first computer in 1981 (I think) It had an 8088 processor that ran at 4.77 mhz, a whopping 512K ram and a 10 meg hard disk. That was really a top of the line, cutting edge computer back then. I remember thinking "WOW! I don't know how I'll ever fill up a 10 meg disk!"

I used to sit for hours and hours (many an all night session) writing programs in gw basic. I also wrote MASSIVE Lotus 123 macros. I wrote a lot of construction estimating templates I used at work in 123 macros. I was the first person in my company that decided to use a micro computer on the job. At the time, such a thing was simply unheard of. Anyway...

It blows my mind to see how far technology has come in the last 20 years!
So, you see, I AM an old fart! Well, in years anyway.

Ok...I guess I should get back on topic!


[This message has been edited by Ursus (edited 10-19-2002).]

SP?

SP?
Hmmmmmm... I think he must have had a brain fart...

Well that's cool, I think. It is good to know that there is someone here closer to my age group.

But I must admit, a little disappointing knowing I'm not the oldest anymore [I'll get over it].

I got my first taste of computers from our next door neighbor; I think he was an engineer. He had one of the first TRS-80's to hit the market, and let me borrow his Byte mags. and he taught me BASIC.

And how did I put that knowledge to use?

I'd go to the various Radio Shacks in the area [those reachable by bike ;-)]. I'd go to the TRS-80 on display, stop the demo program, and insert a little subroutine I wrote.

What that would do was, depending on what the demo was, either wait for a certain point in the demo, or if it was an interactive demo [meaning customers could input stuff to a limited extent] I would set the trigger to be when a certain key was hit.

Once triggered the demo would stop, a message come on saying that the program would now self destruct. I would count down to zero.

At zero the screen would clear, and the word 'Boom!' would appear for a count of 10 seconds after which the screen would clear.

The last line of my subroutine was 'new'. So the demo would have to be reloaded.

I know, not the most impressive thing in the world, but in those days....

[I might add that it took quite a while for the clerks to associate my visits with the destructing program. After all in 1978-70, it was pretty unlikely that a14 year old could program.]

Ok im lazy so i didnt read the posts but a really good book that i just finished is

Time Travel In Einsteins Universe by J. Richard Gott The link to amazons posting of this book is here

it discusses in detail the going into space and turningaround theroy as well as warp drive and other fun things i found some of it hard to understand but the reg posters in here shouldnt have any trouble with it

Ah, sorry, forgot to add this yesterday:

SP: AKA: Spurious Generalities

quote:

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Originally posted by A55M0NKEY:
http://www.advance.uconn.edu/01091012.htm

If he can, I have an Idea that would let you browse the web of the future:

1) Build a network card that can encode data as neutrons and send them into the past.

2) Have your computer save all outbound network traffic to disk. And send it out at the future time you are interesting in browsing the web of.

3) In that futiure time your computer would send your web requests, and encode the responses as neutrons that it would send back to your time.

4) you could read the responses to display web pages from the future.

---

Yeah but where would you get the codecs from? i dont think that html and other current languages are going to stay around forever they will probably go the way of BASIC and others

quote:

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Yeah but where would you get the codecs from? i dont think that html and other current languages are going to stay around forever they will probably go the way of BASIC and others

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You're not getting it. You future computer is sending data to your past computer. They're both yours. You can use any data format you want. You could be running OS/2 on your "future computer" as long as you saved a copy to use ten years from now.