I've had this idea about Perpetual Motion but i need a bit of help on the theory of a design i've got.

Say i have to get metal balls from point "A" to point "B", point "B" is one metre directly below "A". Which would be the best way to get the balls from "A" to "B" with maximum amount of horizontal motion?

My ideas were:
a helix- but the balls would be slowed as they rubbed against the outside barrier (due to centrefugal (sp?) inertia).
two rails- First rail from "A" at a single degree angled decent (moving away from both "A" and "B"). Second rail underneath the end of rail one at a 45 degree angle that takes the ball to "B".

If any one has any other ideas to get the balls at maximum horizontal velocity please post your ideas.

BTW this is obviously not the whole design- just in case it works i don't want loads of people knowing my ideas, if anyone helps me with this and the idea works then you will recieve all credit due.

Chunkmiester
Thermodynamics? BAH!

Use magnetic suspension, in a vacum, might not be perpetual but it could go for a looooong time. You put perpetual motion and thermodynamics in the same post, I am surprised your computer did not implode.

Absolutely impossible! Stop trying!

And, using a vaccuum, why can't you just drop the ball?

Now now, tryptamine, we all must have dreams, even if they do violate both common sense and laws of thermodynamics. Remember, this is the guy that is going to try to stay awake for a week!

[This message has been edited by culinaryoverlord (edited 10-09-2002).]

True perpetual motion is nothing but a pipe dream.

However, free energy is viable, though it is often lumped into the same catagory.

I am working on my own idea for a free energy device which uses Bose-Einstein condensate, lasers, and superconducting wire to convert thermal energy to electrical. I would give more detail, but I don't want my idea stolen before I even get a prototype together.

Hmm, either you are using the lasers to create the B.E.C., or using radio waves to separate atoms in a higher anergy state and the lasers are for something else, no trouble with the superconductor, things are going to be pretty chilly anyway, hmmmmmm... zogs brain hurt

Speaking of free energy some the new hydrogen powered cars will remove the electron from the H atom and run it throught an electric engine to power the car, if they could rejoin the particals after the elctron was used then repeat the process would this make free energy?

And for propetual motion it is far from impossible "an object in motion stays in motion, until it is acted upon by another object." So since an absolute is impossible to have at any real size, we will talk about sub atomic particals, since the atom of hydrogen contain only one electron it has lots of empty space if there is any movment in that nucleus from the slight pull of the electron it will have propetual motion.

CTR

quote:

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Speaking of free energy some the new hydrogen powered cars will remove the electron from the H atom and run it throught an electric engine to power the car, if they could rejoin the particals after the elctron was used then repeat the process would this make free energy?

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No, because it takes external energy to remove the electron in the first place.

"Perpertual motion is impossible" is a universal statement. Therefore, it's not scientifically provable. You must remember that a scientific "law" is a fallacy. These laws are merely theories with an extraordinary amount of evidence supporting them.

That said, I don't think a mechanical device is the way to go. I think something like zero-point energy is a more worthy study. Of course, free energy is often finite. It's just a previously unknown source, and ideally one that is virtually inexhaustable on a small scale such as ours.

Cheers for the responses people- but my question hasn't really been answered- oh well.

Xenosss said "why can't you just drop the ball?"

Because i need maximum amount of horizontal velocity.

Chunkmiester
Laws Laws Laws- Rules were made to be broken

Mad scientists tend to run off on tangents. Radii, too.

As for your horizontal velocity thing-

Get the tallest room you can. Suck all the air out. Drop your steel ball from the very top. Arrange magnets to the side of the ball's trajectory, in a curve. Each magnet will impart a horizontal and a slight upward pull, and the greater the radius of your curve the more vertical energy will be transferred into horizontal energy. It's like jumping out of a plane onto a giant slide, only the magnets reduce the friction.

(Here's where I stop and think of the simpler solution, then edit it in!)

Make a gauss rifle. See oft-linked page here: http://www.scitoys.com/scitoys/scitoys/magnets/gauss.html

[This message has been edited by ThetaReactor (edited 10-10-2002).]

Ok guys I'm not shitting you, go take a few physics courses and stop reading about "theorhetical advancements in science" There is no way an system could stay in motion forever without outside energy. There are a few reasons for this: There is no such thing as an absolute vacuum, not even in space. The laws of thermodynamics prohibit perpetual motion as well. And any of you that believe that scientific laws are fallacies you should all be scared shittless all the time that miraculously gravity or electricity will stop working, or that molecular attraction forces will cease to attract and begin to repel each other. I mean there are a million reasons why it is impossible. And there is no reason why this statement is false just because it is universal, what do you mean by universal, I do mean SPECIFICALLY that perpetual motion in this physical world with particles or waves that a system cannot stay in motion or emit energy perpetually without an outside energy source. Oh yeah it cannot stay in motion forever and not emit energy because we cannot deny the effects of friction. (remember that there is no such thing as an absolute vaccuum) Trust me I used to think about magnetic suspension vacuum bearings all the time as a child.

As far as the magnetic idea well, you can't have a magnet system that is strong enough to exert a pull like that yet dynamic such that the steel ball won't just stick to the first magnet it gets close to. Really you should at least simplify your system first and do some calculations. Ideas like this have actually been tried hundreds of years ago with magnets and gravity, they proved to be impossible.

Anyone care to discuss anything else controversial like infinity theory perhaps? Subatomic physics? Ethics?

And we all thought time travel was impossible.

Theta was right, laws are not definite. They are just well supported theories. Think of all the advancements in science that have been made and you'll see that laws can and probably will be proven false.

Ok thanks for the responses.
Trypt- you are probably correct but i want to try things for myself you know, every other person on the planet could say it was impossible and i would still attempt it. I am like that- all i wanted to know was how to get maximum horizontal velocity, not an essay on why everything i do will be in vain.

Chunkmiester

Tryp pretty much puts the lid on it with the" no taking energy from a closed sysem", and "no perfect vacume bit". Even a vacume with no atoms in it would be subject to random particles, even a vacume with no particles in it would have wave state energy fucking with your perpetual motion And even if you could block out muons, tau-particles, and neutrinos, chaos would fuck you up by popping particles into existance to balance out the ones chewed up by black holes (wormholes are bunk, energy going into black holes might not technically exist any more, but I would lay dollars to doughnuts it raises the potential energy in the time space continueum?, continuom?, continuem?, ah fuck it it's a closed system anyway, resulting in annoying little bits of matter popping up here and there, continum?, continyewum?, the concept of the "heat death" of the universe annoys me)
Cheers

Continuum

Bahahaha, I am such a dodo, I shouldn't post in MS after so many beers. Thanks though, I was really pereplexed?

Dash it all!

Between Trypt bringing up the friction bit, and Culinary with the spontaneous particle pair generation, all the wind was taken from my sails.

That's why you don't see me around here much.

It�s not that I can't hold my own in these discussions, I can.

It's just that, by the time I get here, It's mostly all been said.

Guess I'll just slink back to SP and [occasionally] Vogon and get abused by newbies

Yah, thats funny, sometimes you read someones post and the light goes on. >>BING<<, you have a great post to reply with, and then you scroll down some more and someone has already said it. C'mon meta, I'll post some of my poems if you post more here.

It's a fair cop: Alright I'll hang around here more.