I have heard from Mr. Hawking himself that he believes timetravel may only exist in wurmholes. I dissagree with this statement and believe timetravel may exist in light particles, for as many people have stated, if a thing was to go faster then the speed of light it would cease to exist.


Thought from the Joe who know

What would be the point in transporting photons through time?

Well my thought is we can deassemble something to the point at which it is capable of existing and being like a photon, then reassemble that photon at the appropriate time


Thought from Joe Blow

you misinterpret hawking.

time travel is thought to be possible. in both directions to the past and to the future. but is somewhat irrelevant to events because they would've happened anyway.

if you invented something to travel to different parts of time say 1955; in the year 1955 no matter what you would've appeared and existed in that time.

even if the machine wasn't built until 2055 and you were born 2010.

same if you went to 2155 and died in 2075.

since we perceive linear existance you would've already lived 2155 during your life; but after death in the year 2155 you would exist again; probably not consciously as you have already lived this event.

hawking states that through wormholes is the easiest way; and might explain why we have 12 billion year old stars in a 10 billion year old universe.

If you have ever heard of the Philadelphia experiment then you would know about the theory that time travel has already happened. If you don�t know the story it goes like this, back in WWII the navy with the help of Einstein himself were experimenting with early stealth technology on battle ships. They used a form of microwaves on a battle ship that had all sorts of livestock on it and a few crewmembers. When they turned this experiment on the ship actually disappeared for about 10 minutes. When the ship reemerged the crew was actually fused to the ship, and several were missing totally. This much of the experiment has been confirmed by the government. The part that they won�t fess up to is that two of the crewmembers showed up in a bar 40 years in the past.
There was a movie about this called The Philadelphia Experiment.
Whether this really happened I don�t know but it�s worth looking into.

Question: If they appeared 40 years in the past, how would anyone know?

I have no clue its just something I read about a long time ago and I cant remember how it ended. I'll have to find it and read it again. But they explained it somehow????

the philadelphia experiment is a purely fictional movie.

there was an actual philadelphia experiment that worked with radar invisibility; it succeeded with the stealth bomber.

i have the video of the guy who claims the philadelphia experiment was based on his life.

but he didn't realize it til "AFTER" he seen the movie; and came with a story that has aliens giving us the invisibility formula.

that area 51 is a galactic research facility; for giving the aliens a secret place to test their new technologies they release secrets a little at a time to our government.

these aliens come from a "federation of planet"(sound familiar) that include betelgeuse(one of the three stars in orions belt) sirius a proxima and alpha centauri.

the centaurians are a bird-like people the sirians are lizard like(sound familiar; remember v; and v the final battle; the lizard aliens from sirius) and the betelgeusians are human like and earth is actually an ancient colony of betelgeuse when they first discovered space travel. and that are ATLANTIS is actually a forgotten memory of our ancestor from betelguese.

i don't where you read the story.

but if saw the video you'd know he was so full of shit.

hey spiffy if you read this.

he recalled this out of hypnosis after seeing the movie the philadelphia experiment because he felt a connection to it.

the result: vague references to star trek; and 80's mini series; the area 51 references he's probably heard since birth; and threw in famous names from history as being known in the fields of science he was "supposedly" involved with namely einstien and tesla; and tesla supposedly invented a laser gun that obliterated a whole side of a mountain then destroyed his research for which he was later killed.

the producers and writers of the philadelphia experiment got the idea from public release documents of "the philadelphia experiment" which ended in 1955 with no conclusive preof you can make a craft radar invisible until the plan was re-instated under a different name and produced the stealth fighter and bomber.

like I stated before, I have no clue about wether it happened or not.
I was just trying to give Joe an idea on what's been theorized about time travel.
All I remember is seeing some program on the learning network or something and an article in some magazine, it was a long time ago so I don't remember the details like you do but thanks for clearing it up.

"If you're traveling in a time machine, and you're eating corn on the cob, I don't think it's going to affect things one way or the other. But here's the point I'm trying to make: Corn on the cob is good, isn't it."

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I hope that after I die, people will say of me: "That guy sure owed me a lot of money."

I have been thinking; i can believe the fact that if u traveled to a point past or before your own death, you would not be able to exist at this time. so i believe that timetravel is possible but has limits marked by the begining and ending of life.

Thought from Joe

if u 'travelled' in 2025 and went to oh let's say 2069...but you went back to 2025 and died at 2029...then how the hell would u have lived in 2069? the people of that 'time' would be confuzed and you may end up as some strange dream/memory?
can any one here like help me out with this?

*oh yeah..i also say a show about that experiment on the ship with the crew members becoming 'part' of the ships hull...they were like the metal was molded around their body.

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ok...if you say so
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ok i will anser this question cos it seems like every one here is using the old tripple B method (Bullshit Beats Brains) well anyway it goes something like this


To stop time you must either cool atoms to absolute zero (minus 273 ish) or speed them up to the speed of light (practiacly imposible proved so by the therom E=mc^2
wich means the amount of energy you would need to reach the speed of light would be the equivelent of the mass times the speed times speed. The amount of fuel needed to get to this speed would be massive. But if one of these were to be reached then the time in that area would stop (eg. the electrons would stop moving round the electron this stops time as time is relitive to speed and gravitational force) Therefore anything that traveld into this area would be transported to the time at which time was stopped (timetravel). And the objects in this region would not age at all.

I probably havent explaned this very well, but it might help. my advise is to buy (or borrow) "A Breif History Of Time" by stephen hawking, its a briliant book

and also your theory about the light photons would not work for sub atomic reasons that i am not going to go into, post again if you want more info.

im off to bed.

so if a 'space craft' could reach this 'speed of light' and you say that the time would cease to exist...the people in the ship would be in a state of limbo, wouldn't they? and they would be in a state of time-lessnes. once in this state...would it be impossible to hold onto it? would it take huge amounts of energy or little amounts to continue on? if a ship reached this speed in space...according to books...the nearest 'star' is some 4.2 light years away (according to http://www.astro.wisc.edu/~dolan/constellations/extra/nearest.html) so it would take how long to reach it? and if time is stopped...wouldn't they be there instantly if some machine were to be able to time it?

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ok...if you say so
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acording to most of the theorys that i have read (and half understood) the faster you go the slower the relitive time. So if we did manage to travel at the speed of light it would take huge amounts of fuel (practicaly imposible to get enough) and it would seem (if the craft were traveling at the speed of light) to the astronaughts to take hundreds of years (the faster you are traveling the slower time seems), but from earth it would only seem that it would take 4.2 years, this concept is known as relitive time. and by manipulating this we can efectivly time travel. They would not miraculasly get there instantly because the time would also slowdown for the astornaughts and stay the same for earth. confused yet? i am.

confuzed...confuzed couldn't even remotly describe myself.
so this hawkings guy has alot of good books out hey? i think i might check him out.

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ok...if you say so
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A breif history of time is probably his best and most accesable book - taught me one hell of a lot, well worth buying.

GUYS I'M REALLY SORRY TO SOUND IGNORANT OR OBNOXIOUS BUT SWITCH OFF YOUR TELEVISIONS,VCR'S,DVD'S,CLOSE YOUR A.D.2001 COMICS. OPEN YOUR CURTAINS AND MAYBE BE ADVENTUROUS AND OPEN A WINDOW AND JUST LOOK OUTSIDE.PLEASE.

ok hear me out on this one:

TIME TRAVEL IS.....IMPOSSIBLE!

because: what is time? time is a measurement of how long something takes to happen. well i dont need to explain what time is. but we rely on light to define time. this is because light travels very, very quickly, so its pretty reliable. but once we get into extraordinary speeds like that, light just isnt good enough.

think of this. time is the same everywhere. its always running, and there IS NO WAY TO STOP IT. see its hard to think in such large as well as so small numbers. imagine this: a ball hits a wall 100 feet away. at the exact time u see it hi the wall, you smack a table. did the ball hit the wall at the exact same time u smacked the table? no. because it took TIME for the light to travel to you. so, what we call time travel isnt really time travel at all. its just beating light to a certain location. we think of time travel like this: if i clap my hands, then travel faster than the speed of light away from the location of the clap and look back, i would see myself clapping. this is true. because we beat light to the chase. but we did not travel back in time. when i saw myself clapping it happened a while ago, and we cant change it.

if we think of time travel like this, then it is safe to say that we perforom time travel everytime we look at the stars. the nearest star to us other than the sun is 4.3 light years away. so whenever we look at it, were seeing what happened 4.3 years ago.

if time is the same everywhere, then we cant travel back in time. we can only make it seem so since we rely on light to define time, but sometimes, as i said, light isnt good enough.

ARGH! i really hope you guys understand what im trying to say. its so hard to put this into words. i did my best. any questions?

oh and here is the definition of time: nonspatial continuum in which events occur in apparently irreversible succession from the past through the present to the future

[This message has been edited by unstable247 (edited 04-07-2001).]

unstable, time is not the same everywhere, it changes according to gravitational fields and shit.

time is like a combination a lazy river from a water park and white water rapids. 1 second here is different form 1 second on some other place

i just be repeating what others have said, but here it goes.. Although time travel as u put it is not posible at the moment, we have the ability to slow down and even theoreticaly stop time, and once we have stoped time in that place, we would have the ability to travel back in time to that place. basicaly we can only travel back to where we have slowed or stoped time. i think

you know how to slow down time?

movement.

the faster an object moves the slower time "appears" to pass for that object.

time is not the same everywhere;

nor is it the same for everyone.

if we could travel as fast as light and go to our nearest star and back.

8 years would have past for the astronaut;

yet when he came back everybody he knew would be dead and his only relatives would be his grandchildren's grandchildren.

the question i pose is this.

did time slow down for the astronaut;

or did he actually travel to the future.

another of hawking's theories is that if it is theoretically possible to travel in the past; it's also theoretically possible to travel to the future.

"why do we remember the past and not the future"~stephen hawking.

well i think that you could not travel into time only back...how could you travel forwards if it hasnt happend yet? and once you travel back how would you get back to the year you were in because you carn't travel forwards???...
am i makeing any scence?
ggrrrrr
i'm going to explode....
LOOK OUT

quote:

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how could you travel forwards if it hasnt happend yet?

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It's called "time diolation." Humans do it all the time.

read parellel universe by fred alan wolf, its dumbed down quantum physics, it also totally makes sense, explains the possibilitys of time travel, and kinda almost proves the existance of god while its at it.

krazd, if we can travel back in time then we can travel forward in time. because imagine what the people of 20 years ago will think if we go to then. theyll think hey, that hasnt happened yet. then the same can happen for us. someone can come to our world from the future.

so if we can travel back in time like that, then there must be a whole nother world for every event that ever happened. every moment in time. it mind boggeling.

you could look at it like that or you could say that if time has been altered, it would have already of happend and therefore you can neverchange time in your memory, because you will always remember the time line that you are on.

another theory is that if you do invitnt a time machine (or stop time) you cant travel back to anytime before the time machine was invented, both of these would explane your question without having to resort to the infinate universe theory

Unstable, what you just suggested is what parallel universes is all about, it states that there is a infinite amount of other universes, and infinite possibilities. Everything that can possibly happen, already has, and everything that you can imagine can happen too. I think thats rather cool.

People say that nothing may be sped up to the speed of light;also that nothing can be cooled to -273K but both of these are possible...

Think about energy for a second, how much energy can the human body exert, what is more how much energy can be used with adrenaline? if the human body or life itself can be used to its full potential it might be able to realease all of the energy needed at a certain time. Also there is a tremendous amount of energy that comes out of the sun, that energy could also be tapped. Until people advance enough to the point at which they are able to use now unaccessable energy storers, they will not be able to speed up this fast.

As for cooling, that is accessable by the same methods, now particles may be stopped, simply by looking at particles that are suspended in space.

What is now, will forever will be...

Thought from Joe

The concept of time travel has been proven, however, that doesn't neccisarily mean that humans are physically equipt to do this. That doesn't make it impossible. That's just a thought. But, my understanding was that time travel exists in light/energy in different wave lengths like everything else, really. However, I could see where the wormhole idea is credible. I just don't believe it's that black and white.

Cheers,
Lost

Lost, if you've ever been in a real fast car you've traveled into the future relative to those things not moving with you.

Everything has already happened.
You can go back and forth but it will make no difference because the universe has already started and ended.just be happy to be here at this point of the ride. (notice ride not time, because time is just a concept that man has made, just because theres a begining and an end to us what makes that have to be like that for anything else... it could be everything at once.. like us now.)

i see i have to explain the grandfather paradox all over again even though i thought unstable did a good job of it.

you can travel in time; but you can't change what did happen or what's going to happen because it happened anyway.

the grandfather clause works like this;

you can't go back in time and kill your grandfather so you wouldn't be born; because if you weren't born you couldn't go back in time and kill your grandfather so you were born which means you neved did at anytime in the future go back in time and kill your grandfather.

if 20 years from now i go 100 years in the past;

100 years ago from today i existed in 1901 even thought i wasn't born yet and even though i haven't gone back in time yet(if the future hasn't happened) doesn't matter in 1901 i existed.

time is like points on a map; you move from one point in time to another; and when that motion is linear we only "perceive" time as being linear.

Lostmind, in other words, everythings already happened...

To clear things up a little...

Back to the Future, the movie, starring Michael J. Fox.

That's all you need to know.

From a more scientific standpoint:

The Theory of Relativity:
Given: An object with mass with respect to a point.

As the object's speed approaches that of the speed of light, it's length approaches zero, its mass approaches infinite, and its time approaches infinite.

Therefore, from the point, you will "see" an object moving close to the speed of light get shorter, more massive, and it will age less in the same amount of time.

From the point of view of the object, its time passes as normal and everything around it passes more slowly.

If light did not go the speed of light, it would be hard to see, and here's why:
A photon has no mass, but it does have a lifespan, and that lifespan is extremely short. Less than a second. How does light get from stars thousands of light years away??? To the photon, its lifespan is as short as it should be, but to us, it lives forever because relative to us, its time is infinite.

To clear another thing up: It is not practically impossible to go the speed of light, it is impossible.
Unless you know of a force that equals infinite. An object with an infinite mass takes an infinite amount of force to change its velocity. Therefore as you get faster, it becomes harder and harder to go faster. You can approach the speed of light, but never reach it.

To touch on time travel, consider time a dimension, that as we know it, we travel in, in a straight line. To travel in time, we would not just *blink* and appear where we wanted to be, we would have to accelerate our time vector. Therefore, if one were to watch a clock from a "time machine" we would see its hands slow down and go backwards until we appeared where we were aiming for, at which time they would again slow down and speed up to 'normal'.

To accelerate a mass you need a force, to accelerate an object through time, you need a force that affects time. As we know it, time has a momentum(sub time) that we cannot affect. Too bad, but an interesing idea is it not?

I am inspired to add this idea to my book of underevidenced quantum physics! wow.

quote:

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Originally posted by joe1627:
I have heard from Mr. Hawking himself that he believes timetravel may only exist in wurmholes. I dissagree with this statement and believe timetravel may exist in light particles, for as many people have stated, if a thing was to go faster then the speed of light it would cease to exist.

the argument is not that if something were to go faster than light it would cease to exist but rather that it would lose all mass, becuase a thing of mass cannot attain such a speed, and would therefore become a construct of pure energy

Thought from the Joe who know

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He who joyfully marches in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice."-Albert Einstein

lol, sorry about above entry, the bottom paragraph is MY addition, made a mistake while writing......

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He who joyfully marches in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice."-Albert Einstein

its hard for me to understand what you guys mean by "infinite mass" and other stuff like that. how can one object have an infinite amount of mass?

can someone clear things up here?

Joe-
It is impossible for something to reach and be observed at absolute zero. It can not happened. Consider some mass that I have cooled to almost absolute zero. This means that the individual molecules in the mass are moving very slowly. At absolute zero ALL molecules have stopped. BUT, how could this phenomena be observed? The mere act of looking at the object requires that a photon bounces off of at least 1 molecule, this transfers momentum to that molecule, making it move. Now it isn't absolute zero anymore.

but it wouldnt make the molecule move if the molecule had enough inertial energy telling it to "stay put" the object at abs. zero would stay there when the photon hit it and you could observe it

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He who joyfully marches in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice."-Albert Einstein

As there is no/negligible friction with in an atom, there is no force holding that particle hit by a photon in place, there fore there is NO force to overcome, so there must be movement!

the_editore
"The world sucks, if it didn't we would all fall off" - Some guy

When a person gets older his metabalism slows down. They say a Fruit Fly has a metabalism 10,000 times greater then mans. they live about 1/10,000 of a life span too. ever wonder if a fly is really stupid and slow in his world. not moving around at speeds equivalent to speed of sound in relation to his size.

My point is that *You* as a human being have a very fast metabalism as a child, and it begines to slow down right after your peak in life (About 23-24). it will slow down to about 4x what it was as a teen ager. So the point here is your life will speed up. the slower your metabalism the faster time moves. Thats why when you are a kid you think its gonna be forever before you are old enough to date or see an R rated movie or Drive a car or move the fuck out of your parents house. for a while you enjoy your freedom and then you hit that age of 25 or so and you realize everything is speeding by you. It just gets faster my friends.

So maybe the key to time travel is freezing your metabalism. put you in a coma like state. your body wont age. you will wake up like Woody Alen in the movie Sleepers.

Only drawback is you cant go back in time. only forward.

But Witch, that's just perception, not the 'Real' world that everyone else perceives.

......Unless you are a solipsist :-D

Unstable, infinite mass can ONLY be attained at the speed of light, and any mass at the speed of light is always infinite. That's why it can never be attained by a massive(any) object. Only a photon, which has no mass can go the speed of light.

-Theory of Relativity

{Photons are cool... their lifespan is almost nil, but we perceive them as living for forever, and to us they do)