do people and the media glamourize the effects and usefullness of cloning? What kind of animal and animal fetus casualties have been recorded in the experimentation of this new science?

alll this shit has moved over to japan, as the rich have invested millions of dollars in the research to be continued over there, as the us gov tried to finish/ban or what ever in the publics eyes(ha)it has clinged to the greed and rich to their attempt at immortality, the greed and rich have controll over you and subjugation like the church well same shit. i will tell you what casualties have been, soon your pets, as you can pay a fee to have it cloned now, you see controll and greed have the same parallel when you have controll you have greed, and when you have greed you have controll, fuck all this but, liquidate the imf!!!!

demise!!!!!

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totally nihilistic

I think it would be good for medicine if we could clone certain parts of our body like ears, etc...But cloning humans, for me at least is virulently against my value system.

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You're in a laundry room, You're in a laundry room, the clue just came to you? Oh.

value, what is value, nature is value, what if we had cloned eienstine,or darwin or spare or hendrix,(mayby their best shit was yet to come) do you know that there are certain groups of the fuking church clinging to a piece of bood or some shit they believe that was jesus, and will clone it for the second cumming of the lord, hang on ooooeerrrr ha ha, jesus was my co pilot, but my plane crashed in the mountains and i had to eat the cunt. killl god.net

fucking nihilism, demise to the fucking greed subjugation fucking cunts, time for my medication.

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totally nihilistic

NIH- what in the living hell are u talking about, u make no sense at all. But cloning certain ledgends would be a good idea, it would keep people going to their favorite concerts and get their moneys worth

Thought from Joe Blow

if you cloned a legend how do you know they would grow to be the same person?

aren't personalities developed by environment and experiences; you would have to allow them to live the same life as the one being cloned or you would have somebody totally different.

and here's an interesting question;

would a cloned human have a consciousness; the ability grow beyond instinct and act in a manner shall we say "human". or would it be like a labotomized human?

we have the jist of how the brain works in a man; but we have no clue why.

you may know how to build a steam engine; but unless you know the logistics of steam propulsion it wouldn't work.

here's an interesting thing as well that i find somewhat too coincedental.

i'm not religious by any means; but the seventh sign of the apocalypse is the birth of the soulless child when the "guff" the hall of souls that is supposedly filled with the compassion of god runs out; and a child is born without a soul.

my interpretation of the above prophecy in 21st century terms.

would a cloned human have a soul?

i dont know, but i would doubt that a cloned child would have a soul because the child would be man-made, not God-made. and man can't make souls.

woowo, thats cool, lost, okay, soul, in a person, it is either defined by what the person feels thinks and or acts/does right, or am i wrong, all this is contained in the brain, with out the brain all this would be nihil, there is no soul out side the existance of the brain perception, and when you die your atoms fuse into the earth and be re-newed, they are kept here because of the ionesphere, magnetisum,

so man can create soul, and another peson would have trates of the copy of the gentics of the cloned, but would infact end up with a slightly different personality and intelligence if they wee exposed to different environments i feel that wouild be alomost the same if they grew up in the same cituation,

jc-keep that shit for sunday school barr barr, and go and throw some money in the donation bowl, and hail g.o.d, and give me some i will pay them to put a muzzle on you.

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totally nihilistic

for once i agree with nih, the state and existance of a soul exists only in the mind. As long as man cloned the mind, a soul could exist. As to if they would be exactally the same, if brain waves were cloned and made to be the same exact patern, the person would come out with the same intelligence and personality.


One last thought,
What if someone was cloned and met the person/thing they were cloned from, that would be some freaky shit.


Thought from Joe and da hoes


BTW- how do you become a regular?

i tend to disagree.

how can you say definitely that the soul is a figment of imagination. your cells die and new ones are born; they say if you live to 80 the oldest cells in your body are in your bones and probably 30 years old; the more important the cell the shorter the life span; heart is like 10 years old; lungs are like 8 and the brain i believe is 5.

yet you and everybody else has consciousness totally unaware of these changes; where is the information from a dying cell stored that allows the memory to remain intact.

if it is stored somewhere in the brain and not in something that "exists" outside the scope of natural laws then you would have the cure for alzheimers;

and an explanation of why it occurs.

the main reason i believe in god or in a higher power is because i don't believe that consciousness and intelligence are accidents.

if it is evolution than we should have some other species eventually attaining that status; on the order of using their minds to construct things to make life simpler.

you can see "signs" of intelligent thought; but if you put a monkey behind a typewriter for a year within all the gibberish you might see quotes from hamlet or a very involved mathematical equation; but unless this is done on a consistant basis i don't see intelligence; which means no "real" consciousness as to evaluate your actions and those of others instead of responding to them; and without consciousness i see no soul.

I gotta agree with Lostmind on this one not because I�m the religious type but because just recently since the mapping of the human genome came out the scientists now agree that environment has more to do with personality then they thought before. So if they did clone Hendrix or Einstein that clone would be a completely different person then the original was and might not be capable of the same kinda thought or action. As for a soul I think that consciousness is the soul, so in that case even your house pets have a soul to some degree. I know that my dogs have a sense of when I�m lonely or upset and they react to it, which tells me that they do have compassion and therefore a soul.

the main reason i believe in god or in a higher power is because i don't believe that consciousness and intelligence are accidents.

see intelligence; which means no "real" consciousness as to evaluate your actions and those of others instead of responding to them; and without consciousness i see no soul.[/B][/QUOTE]

the main reason you believe in the comic book character,(g.o.d)or some thing else, is because you cannot explain(?)

can you now admit that what ever you perceive for your self, that you have no basis for knowledge of truth(?)

alas, thus exists the nihilist.

just because you can't see something doesn't mean it's not there.

your eyes are just a sense that relay information it can comprehend to the brain.

we are surrounded by 7 other dimensions besides length, width, depth, and linear time; we can't percieve their existance but we can measure the effect on the four dimensions we do percieve.

a dog sees in only two dimensions with no depth perception;

it can't see depth; it can't comprehend depth; but it knows it's there otherwise they would never move.

a cat can't see objects good at all; but it has the tremendous ability to see motion; even the slightest motion like a piece of dust falling through the air(ever seen a cat staring intently on what seems like nothing).

i find it quite easy to explain; god played a hand in it.

you call him a comic book character because the only answer you will accept is one that will satisfy your own perceived reality.

am i saying science should stop investigating things and just say "god did it";

that couldn't be farther from the truth.

but until science produces inexplicable proof i shall believe what satisfies my own perceived reality.

thats cool man, i can accept that, specially about the cat as i have never been able to understand pussy, ha ha

but one thing, science can prove some thing by repeating it, in a experiment, right?,

i tryen to screw with every ones head now he he he.

i believe in a higher power, but i do not believe he is controlling anything or has controlled anything. The fact that scientists have not found out many things is the simple fact that the instuments and thesises that exist now are not complex and do not solve the problem. Before a scientist discoveres something, they first must sift through all of the failed ideas, just because something is not explained, it usually mean it will be explained. Calling it a work of god is just a way of putting a problem aside, and once it is scientifically proved, soon the reason will be diminished.

Also i believe intelligence is gained and is from gradual evilution. The ability to think exists in all living things. The simple fact that instict overshadows these abilitys. The reason why humans constantly have this ability is that we simply have the best way to teach our young. Through experimentation, animals have been trained to preform acts that are "inteligent". This is not so, they do this because they will get a reward and through repition of acts, they will get more rewards. But this is not thinking, it is mearly instict. Instict exists in everything, humans instict is to survive and in order to do so, man's brains must be tapped into and used more.

One last thing, the basic fact that people classify eveloution as psyical change, but this is not always true. Technology is the biggest example. We have had the basic principals to make electronics and appliances, but we only make them when we need them. We do adapt to the surroundings, but the surrounding that always is changing is time


Thought from Joe

deist like myself huh?

deist??,mhmm, also off an article about how the universe assembles it self out of nothing and randomness,(creepy shit) just because some thing cannot be explained, it is quite possible that it can never or not be explained,

the nihilist knows this, and knows that science experiments can decieve as well, the higher power you both speak of is evolution, lets face it, it keeps the strong and devours the weak!! habitat, hmmmm that shit has made my mind process shit, thanz man i will have to return the favour, to lost as well.

i feel like watching baraka now, ever seen that documentry style movie,(about the earth and pollution) absolutly emphatic!!!!

don't believe in evolution either.

well i believe in evolution but i do believe that at first a higher power created the universe but let everything go from there. So if we are gonna start talkin about evolution then lets do it.

Clone away that's what i say.

I have no idea if this is true, but it is something I have pondered:
The whole human clone thing may have already taken off. Women scientists could gladly donate their eggs. There's likely wealthy people to fund such a project, secretly, so as that we the public, or even the government would not have knowledge of it.
I doubt it, but it is something to think about, if you are one of those people who want to stand in the way.......

quote:

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Originally posted by hotgorgeousbabe2000:
I have no idea if this is true, but it is something I have pondered:
The whole human clone thing may have already taken off. Women scientists could gladly donate their eggs. There's likely wealthy people to fund such a project, secretly, so as that we the public, or even the government would not have knowledge of it.
I doubt it, but it is something to think about, if you are one of those people who want to stand in the way.......

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You are SO RIGHT! I can see how that would happen if some people really wanted it to, which there are....

i hear they can get stem cells from fat now. neeto.

why do you need the egg? they do that all the time, i consider a sucessful clone's first cell can be any thing, skin, blood, nerve, bone anything that came from the human body, whick wouldn't include sex cells since they only have half the cromosomes

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once your on the road of life... well sucks for you

tomorrow will be as far as 24 hours away or less then a second from our grasp

which came first, the Mac or the wheel?

Well hell, you do not need women or men for cloning, you can just make an artifical chromosome; which is not possible right now

What is now, forever will be

i still await the proof of evolution from anyone who can present it.

just be prepared for me to discredit it.

i will not post why i don't believe in it,

the reasons i have and have posted here would be enough to fill a topic to i'd say 8 or 9 pages discrediting evolution.

provide your facts,

i'll ask questions to which your facts cannot answer.

As you can tell, i have not replyed in a while, but I also have helped prove one of my points. Evolutoin can be seen in everyday life. The fact that I have learned more in the time that has passed shows that i have evolved from my past self.Physical attributes also change over time which is more proof of evolution.

Well we can either talk about this or go back to cloning you chose

Do you pee in the shower?
Thought from Joe

that's not evolution,

that's development

and i don't dispute evolution within a species, that's a given.

what i dispute is a parent giving it's child a dna code that it didn't have.

there is no way that 1+1 can give you anything but 2,

although there are many different ways to represent two,

it will always be II.

I was Just wondering, didja ever think that the theories of both "creation" and "evolution" could be simultaneous? I mean that according to the bible, the 7 days of creation could be referring to the different eras(such as proterozoic, paleozoic, mesozoic, and cenozoic)and the seventh day, "rest" is when homosapiens emerged(adam & eve). I kinda think it makes sense.

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They say america is the best country in the world. Unfortunately, they elected George W. Bush.

But in the bible didn't it say he took one day to relax? But that is a good way to explain things in once sense. As for lostmind if u look up what evolution actually represents and means u will find that half the things I am saying make sense (while the other half are just drunk ramblings) but evolution is basically sumed up in the definition "change over time"

And just BTW i think cloning is f-ed up right now...

Do u squat while you shit?

Thought from Joe

lol,

if there's no toilet.

U have actually gone where there is no toliet? those things i say at the end of posts are just my "philisophical" questions.... hehe well as long as there is not much talk about cloning right now cause of the terroist thing, there is not much new news that i can post... i will try to post more often now (though it may just be about random crap)

Who picks up roadkill?

Thought from Joe

never been camping?

in the real woods anyway, not a tourist place.

hector chan, you, in a small amount of words, have summed up what i've been trying to explain in my ramblings post. Good work fella.

Mantis

actually the seven days are quite scientifically accurate if viewed from an observer standing on earth.

1) earth was created but with blanket of dust obscurring all light from space.
2) earth cooled giving way to land and water
3) the dust settled and lo and behold the creation of the sun(not really it was just covered before)
4)atmosphere of mostly co2 which made animal life impossible so the plants emerged
5)the plants would perish without a way to replenish the co2 so animals came along to surivive on what the plants exhaled so the plants could survive by what we exhaled
6)man, with all food sources in place and a stable environment in which to thrive man arrived.
7) rest, nothing else to do.

how would biblical people know the sun would not be seen even after the earth was formed?

how would biblical people know that plant life HAD to emerge before animal life in order for both to survive?

it's a very watered down but scientifically correct explanation by a very primitive and scientifically deprived people.

How did biblical people know that someone would read what they wrote 2k years ago. It is the same as it was back then just a guess. People who believe in these guesses, are not actually backing them up with many facts.

Ack schools over....gtg i will post tommarow
Thought from Joe

that's one hell of a guess.

ONE HELL OF A GUESS!

It sure was. By the way i hate school

Thought from Joe

Cloning technologies are progressing as we speak, why is no one paying attention. Soon they might even be able do agricultural products so its good


i gtg, need to pay attention for a while in class.

Thought from Joe

quote:

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Originally posted by Lokil:
I think it would be good for medicine if we could clone certain parts of our body like ears, etc...But cloning humans, for me at least is virulently against my value system.

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If I may ask. What makes your value system" above the rest of the world. Why should the US government make a world ban? If the US government doesnt like it and say Japan or Russia or Germany says they will continue what will the US government do to those countries? will they boycott them over something like this. Abortion is Legal in the USA but they want to Ban Life? clones will be souless. just organism in a state of inanimation. They will most likely be put to sleep so the body parts can be used at a later time for the person whos genes created them. shit actually this is creeping me out to but Why should the USA make up laws for the entire planet?

Other countries will go ahead and do it anyway. America wont do anything (unless the US don't like them in the first place) and i think will probably embrace it after some time.

allthough its a bit odd i see no problem with it. a persons conciousness is intact outside of the body (think astral projection) and i believe in existance before the physical body is created. it would simply be making a body for some one to inhabit. just like building a house before there is a buyer lined up.