If anyone wants me to post my recently completed treatise on dimensional physics (I thought of it the only place where clear thinking can be done - the shower), reply.

I'D LOVE TO READ IT.

"CAPS ARE PHUN"

my physics teacher said that there are theories in contemporary quantum physics stating that there are 11 or more dimensions. Most of them are small and coiled up towards the origin of the three which are so common.

At the moment I have an absolutely tear-inducingly tedious project to do for Bio 1 Honors, so when I finish, I'll submit it.

I'd love to read it!!! And, I can do clear thinking anywhere in the bathroom. Why read a magazine on the can when you can contemplate the electron configuration of qunatam physical perplexities????

Check out the web for MICHIO KAKU. His theories have continued where Einstien left off. His books are informative and mind expanding. He writes(and talks) in a manner that you can feel his love for science.
Dr. Kaku brings unified field theory, superstring and multi-dimensional space all come together in an easy, well explained manner.

User-friendly quantam physics???

stephen hawking is the best in this field, read "a brief history of time" for all this in laymens terms.

Smartest man in the world or not. cripples can be funny.

YES i AM an asshole.

post the url it sounds good

when are you gonna post it?

ive been to the 4th demension on acid.
i kid you not...

the 4th demension is time, u are already there

The studies of black holes with newly launched orbit X-ray telescopes will open up more data on dimension physics. It's so weird because people don't really think in 3 or even 4 dimensions, we think in 2. Military pilots have classes designed especially for 3d thinking, elecronics help bring things closer to 2d viewing ease.

Other dimension exist inside the plane of one dimension itself. And another at 0,0,0 on the XYZ plane. Time; 0,Y,Z, ;X,0,Z; XY0;
0,0,0; X; Y; Z; And one more for where each X, Y, and Z all meet time. All of these places holds another dimension, somewhat of a warpage of space and time, all cause by gravity or fields. Quantifying such things may give us access to high speed travel through space and maybe even time. There maybe even more dimensions that exist in area's of gravity anomolies. It's pretty fucked up, but pretty neat, and can be very confusing.

i recently got "a breif history of time" its very good as a beginers guide or advanced, although the l8st edition dosnt go into as much depth it has a sectin on time travel and worm holes, i recomend it, its well worth �20

i know this don't mean shit to the topic, but ain't kirsten dunst fucking hot?

Well...How about I post it in here, since TOTSE hasn't posted it yet.

Treatise on Dimensional Physics

Ok, I thought of most of this in the shower about 15 minutes ago (note: 11:40pm, October 28, 2000, so if it seems weird, I'll re-explain it later on. Just email me at Kirby179@att.net and away we go.

Introduction

Well, as everyone knows, there are currently (in the scientific community at least) 3 recognized dimensions. The first dimension exists on a line. Everything within this dimension is limited to being a dot on a line, which has only length. The dot within itself has no substance or measurement other than the fact that it exists. The dimension, however, has length. The second dimension exists on a plane. Everything within this dimension is limited to being a line or a point. These lines, as above, have only length, and the points have only definition, no length, width, or depth. The plane itself has length and width, extending perpendicularly to the first dimension. The third dimension is somewhat more complicated. It also extends perpendicularly to the second dimension, anything therein can be a plane, a line, a dot, or an object. In three-dimensional space, three-dimensional objects do exist, but the thing is, they are the equivalent of line or plane segments (which could also exist in the first (line segments), and second (plane/line segments) dimensions), three-dimensional 'segments'. Thusly, our introduction to dimensional physics is complete. From here, it just gets *more* confusing.

The 4th Dimension (No, not time, yet.)

Yes, that's right, the 4th dimension does NOT where time lives. This has recently changed in my mind, I had always thought, "Oh, well, I guess I'll just assign all of time to one dimension and leave it in a little box." But, it is not so. After seeing something for a video game, I'm led to believe that there are 2 parts of the 4th dimension, the physical, and the metaphysical. (Which takes us into the next 4 dimensions, but for now�)

Physical 4th dimension: This relates to '4th dimensional luggage' as it is called in the game. It is basically the dimension being expanded in every dimension, perpendicularly, by 1 degree in every direction. If you draw a cube, then draw extensions on every side, of equal length, and you'll have something that looks like it. The point of 4th dimensional luggage is that (and here's where the above diagram comes in) a 2" by 2" by 2" square, opened up, with the inside being 4th dimesional, the inside would be exponentially larger. HUH? Well, let's examine that. 2x2x2=8". 8" squared is 64", making it much larger on the inside than a normal 3 dimensional cube. (Once you read it the 3rd or fourth time, it'll make sense.)

Metaphysical 4th dimension: This relates to what I call the 'tesseract', or the travel form of the 4th dimension. Believe it or not, this is much easier to comprehend, but only because I have a better way of explaining it. Go grab a piece of paper. And a pen. I'll wait. Ok? Well, now draw a line. Put two points on the line. Label them A and B. Put a point between them. Now, how do you get from A to B without going through the third point? You go to the second dimension, and go around. Now, draw a box. (I know it's not a plane, but it suffices in my world) Draw a line in the box. Draw one point in each of the parts of the box now sectioned off. How do you get from one to the other? You jump over the line, in the 3rd dimension. Well, now we can't draw. Let's say you have a point. Around this point, there's a sphere. Outside of this sphere, there's another point. How do you get from A to B? One would immediately say (if you were a member of the scientific community) "A WORMHOLE!" But, if you bend the sphere, there's still the sphere in the way. Space which is bent is still there. This is my question to you. A tesseract (in theory) would be an area of negative space, which starts at the entrance point, and ends at the exit point. All matter in between is still there, but between the two points, there is nothing, meaning if you enter one side, you come out the other side (like going through a doorway, but if one end of the doorway was here, the other end 100 feet away), but instantaneously. (Though here I must stop and redefine the word instantaneous. It does mean 'instant travel' but not 'travel without time' because an instant is a measure of time) Confused yet? This, however, is a much safer, and much faster method of travel. When anything is 'bent' everything is 'bent' along with it. Case in point: If you bend a piece of metal, and it has a picture on it, the picture gets stretched. What I'm really talking about: If you bend space (metal) and it has time tied to it (picture), then time gets bent, when you go through the hole, time passes normally while you are inside the hole (which has distance in and of itself) to everyone else, but less for you. Case in point: If you go through a wormhole from here to Alpha Centauri, then go back, it takes 5 seconds for you, but on earth, enough time passes for you to go there by 'normal' transportation and back. (Parabolic time dilation)

Damn that was long. Ok, on to the picture. ^_^

The 5th-8th Dimensions (and no lectoids)

Ti-i-i-ime is on my side, on a line, in a plane, and�just disturbing. The 5th through 8th dimensions are basically the same thing as the 1st through 4th (oh yay). 5th dimension is linear time. This is not the time that we experience. It's each and every event, yes, but it is not linear time. As above, only segments and points can exist on a line. The 6th dimension, however, is the time we live in. Planar time. Where one time 'line' exists in the 'plane' of possibility. This line, however does not stay the same, always. This is why it is a plane, there are an infinite number of lines in planar time. Why two more dimensions, then? Ah, it only gets more fun from here. The 7th dimension (as I understand it) is cubic, or 3 dimensional time (which is an oxymoron, so I use cubic time, because I like asking for a time cube, it sounds like an ice cube). I hate to say it like this, but cubic time includes the multiverses of possibility, an infinite number of planes (6th dimension) and a multinfinite (sp?) number of lines (5th dimension). The most fun is the 8th dimension. Once again, this needs to be separated. This has to deal with those moments when you jump around. Dreams, thought, out of body experiences, the mind, and the soul all live here. A thought is an event that happens somehow, somewhere, as is a dream, and an out of body experience. You 'see' these actions, events, etc. It's when your 'line' jumps to another 'line' and 'sees' something that doesn't exist (in your time 'line'). All of these 8 dimensions exist in unity, but, assistance is needed in moving around any dimension other than the 3rd, 6th*, and 8th. The 6th dimension can be moved through without assistance, but not consciously. Yes, a time line can be altered by actions, but, normally a forward motion is adapted.

fucking fantastic place we live in, isn't it.

and all that pure chance? i personally don't think so.

i've heard of 11 known dimensions, and the possibility that there are even more that haven't been "discovered" yet.

any idea what the 3 other ones are.

lostmind, you just don't accept chance as an explanation for much of anything, do you? "Why" is simply a construct of the human mind, an anomaly, if you will. All superstitions arose from humans needing an answer to "why". "Why" can only be explained subjectively, never objectively. Only "how" can be be explained objectively. Therefore, anyone can make up any "explanation" for "why", and it will be just as valid as any other "reason".
BTW, "A Brief History of Time" is good, but look up anything by Freeman Dyson, or Richard P. Feynman. Not only first-rate scientists, but good writers.
PS: Charles Sheffield is good, too, he usually writes science fiction, but he is an actual scientist, and he's written some books on it, too.

[This message has been edited by m1066ad (edited 01-08-2001).]

you are right i don't believe in chance.

if you follow the theories on time, and agree with mathematical formulas to back them up, you will see that what i'm doing now i've done before and i'm just going through the motions of a life that was lived long before i was even born, the decisions may be my own, but those decisions were made at the moment the universe began because it ended the same instant while living out its entire life in the blink of an eye.

to me that sounds more like destiny than chance.

Have any of you ever heard about the string theory, where inside an adam there is a tiny band of energy, that on a scale, if the band of energy was blown up to the size of an elastic band, an adam would be the size of the universe... cool eh?

Forgot to add one thing, there is also another problem to dimentions after the 3rd and that is there is no way to determain if the dimention ever ends, thus another may not exist unless in the previous dimention itself. Again the ultimate question is can you measure space if there is no end or begining, so do alternate realitys have to contain these other dimentions

Thought once again from Joe

congrats to the short novel written about the dimensions.
ok...if i get it right...this is how i think of it
1-D = like a dot or a point
2-D = an object drawn such as a square
3-D = another object such as a cube
now what are the other D's?

and what about the movie 'Supernova' about that dimensional bomb? where it would destroy everything to the 9th dimensions include time, space, and mass...what's up with that? is that movie a load of crap? i'de like to leanr more of this 'quantum physics' stuff...although i'm not a weirdo, it seems interesting. and bravo to all the great minds who've developed these theories.

**how does a scientist find that there are more dimensions? do they just say..ok..well so far we've found three basic ones...what about the ones that we can't see?

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ok...if you say so
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These are the generaly accepted scientific Dimentions:

1D - A line of no width only length, such as an infinately thin line (imposible to draw or make) and could never actualy exist, its more of a theory used to explane a line.
2D - A flat shape with length, width but no height, such as a square
3D - An object with length width and height, such as a cube
4D - is named as time, simply because its conveniant as its the fourth most used dimention in science

the rest are all theoretical, and although many people have named them as diferent things, they only exist because we name them to exist, in the minds of many they do - in the minds of more they dont.

[This message has been edited by j0662 (edited 03-19-2001).]

Geesh...everyone knows there are exactly 23 dimensions. Where have you guys been?

dr wu....is there any way in the burning depths of hell-o operator that you could even remotly back this up.......um..no...i doubt it.lol..j/k..but wow...this stuff is quote-un quote trippy

Acording to some of my 3rd yr Physics Lects there are 64 Dimensions its just that all but 4 or 5 of them are curled up into small balls. When things move they travel thru all the dimensions but we can only experiance the 4D we live in and stuff traveling at the speed light travels thru a 5th D as well but I was never clear on this.

You need these dinemsions inorder to satify certain bits of quantum theory which has testable results. So now you know. There is something on the MIT site about this shit because I know no more so you better check it out there if your interested.



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~Kameron
Carpe Aptenodytes! (Seize the Penguins!)

I really understand that the universes are all bundled up but what i need to say is that there is no real way of telling how many dimentions are inside those bundled up dimentions so there will never be a way to tell how many there are.

Kirby e-mail me again)

Thought from Joe

quote:

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Originally posted by soccer_rebel:
my compliments to the chick that thinks in the shower. that is some awesome shit, what else do u do in the shower, LOL! newayz, nicely put!

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Umm...except for the fact that I'm a guy (and a damnned lazy one at that, I haven't checked this thread in forever), thanks for the praise. And by the way, I do masturbate in the shower.

quote:

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Originally posted by lostmind:
fucking fantastic place we live in, isn't it.

and all that pure chance? i personally don't think so.

i've heard of 11 known dimensions, and the possibility that there are even more that haven't been "discovered" yet.

any idea what the 3 other ones are.

---

Well, I've been thinking about a 0th dimension, before the 1st dimension. You know how I defined the entire 1st dimension to fit on an ever-expanding line? How about a dimension that exists on just one point. A single point, and all that exists in the dimension is negative space. And I think I can explain the 4th dimension (metaphysical) a bit better now, let's say you have a rope, and two 4th dimensional portals. You put one about a foot of the ground, and another about 4 feet off the ground. You place a foot of rope into the top portal, and just as you get the last bit of that foot of rope, you feel the rope hit the floor. The rope doesn't pass through a 'hole' in space, there's just nothing between the two planes. Anyway, that's my $.02 on that one. So, I've got 9 dimensions covered...11 you say? Maybe there's a 5th (physical)dimension (and therefore a 10th time dimension, as I've decided that time, being relative, behaves like all things physical) I'm neglecting, which would explain the other two we're missing...give me some scenarios that my treatise doesn't cover, and I might be able to find it.

Question: Kirb, you said that the fourth dimension was (2*2*2)^2 which is 64. But I think what you mean is (2*2*2)^3. Either that or I am explaining your 5th physical dimension.
If you are measuring the inside space of a box with the inside in the fourth dimension (see, i payed attention) then you are saying that it is the volume of the box squared, but that only accounts for 2 of the 3 previous dimensions. If you cube the volume, (you now have units to the 9th rather than the 6th, which of course means nothing here, but i thought i would point it out.) you are accounting for the increase in all previous dimensions.
Now check this out: following /your/ theory with my correction you can say that the fourth dimension is the increase in length (^1), the fifth an increase in width (^1), and the sixth an increase in height (^1).
(^1)*(^1)*(^1)=(^3)
(Now you have twelve)

The problem with this dimension (unless I am just not seeing it) is that it is ENTIRELY dependant upon the other two dimensions and therefore 1) it is irrelevant and 2) it disproves itself. Or at least it had sure better disprove itself or else the plane of x+1 and y would be a different plane then that of x and y (Cartesian: standard 2d) and we would have infinite, each getting more twisted.

Another thing to think about: y in terms of x of x = y is a straight line in a 2d environment, but in a polar environment, which is also 2d only arranged differently, it is a spiral. This gives credit to quantum physics and all that.

SECOND: theoretically, time is a theoretical increment.

C: I personally think you are all wrong. Human beings can not, nor will they ever be able to perceive the remaining infinite dimensions, nor can they move about in them. We will never be able to conceive of them either since the human mind needs a waypoint to grapple onto to understand anything.

-=-
FOURTHLY: The Don Natale Out-Backwards Theory of Gravity

Noone can explain gravity or why it works, but this explanation involves the passage of time as a dimension. You may want to read the Muller Theory below and then come back.
Assuming time is a dimension that can be traversed and examined. Human beings are on a level whereupon we can traverse the dimension, but only in a straight line forward. Correct? But what if it's not really forward. What if human beings actually do not have the capability to move forward in time, but rather backwards. So while human beings and most of the known universe are proceeding backwards the important celestial things are going opposite. This would explain the lack of alien presence in our history because aliens and humans were only lateral in the dimension of time for the merest of instants. But while aliens aren't important, mass is. Mass has a property called gravity, which is an unexplainable force that pulls mass to other mass. (The force that masses concert on each other is equal to the two masses multiplied together, times the gravitational constant G and divided by the square of the distance between them) I imagine its possible that masses actually repel other masses in a forward stream of time. Therefore, gravity only affects those the way we believe it does who are moving backwards in the stream of time.

FIFTHLY: The Muller Theory - actually I only heard of it from him, its actually a very believed set of 'facts'.
Time moves in a linear fashion except on the outskirts of the universe where it actually goes in all directions, like a rippling plane or even a third dimensional thing. This gets complicated and defies all laws of physics but we just file it with Plank's Time/Constant and forget about it.

SIXTHLY: Magnetism and its FOUR poles.
I heard that scientists had discovered more things for energy to be besides positive and nagative, which would do wonders for the computer technology industry, but I am incapable of fully explaining how it would do this. It just would.
The theory: All matter has a set of properties including mass, size(volume), position(in space), charge(energy level), etc. While it is known that there are two charges in the universe that are essentially at any given time dispersed unevenly throughout space. A magnet works by seperating these two poles. They of course attract each other and repel themselves. The other two poles, which we will call east and west for simplicities sake (we could say the planet rotates on two axis, one is just real real slow, but we don't have to) are 99.9999% of the time exactly perfectly balanced. The rest of the time is an anomoly-fest. Were these two poles to become imbalanced, an east charge would actually shoot tangential to a south or a north partical, assuming both are still equally east and west oriented in themself (since its a property, not actually an object). Imagine holding a magnet up to something and seeing it move sideways from where the magnet was in respect to it. Now imagine we have four particles, each is one of the poles. In equal distances, the four would all balance each other out and become 1 large "particle" of 0 charge consisting of four smaller particles. If the four touched, they would all become 0 when they stopped touching anyway.

I have to stop now, help me.

Please read that. Please.